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NorCal_Pacerfan
03-27-2006, 11:00 PM
Look. I respect Tins. BUT - when he's 3-16 and 0-4 from 3 pt range - by all means he SHOULD NOT be shooting the ball in the last 2 minutes. This is when he takes ill advised shots with minimal ball movement. Argh.

Ragnar
03-27-2006, 11:01 PM
Rick lost this game not Jamaal. If you cant see that then you know nothing about basketball.

Hicks
03-27-2006, 11:03 PM
Jamaal had a horrible game. If you can't see that then you are way too attached to Jamaal Tinsley's thigh.

SoupIsGood
03-27-2006, 11:04 PM
Both of our Point Guards played really bad games.

You know, we have a pretty decent third PG for times like that game.....

Los Angeles
03-27-2006, 11:04 PM
Rick lost this game not Jamaal. If you cant see that then you know nothing about basketball.
REALLY?

:lol2:

Jermaniac
03-27-2006, 11:05 PM
No you need to jump off Tins thats what it is. The guy lost us the damn game. Open your damn eyes, the guy started shooting us out of the game. HE SHOULD NEVER SHOOT if he is not in the paint NEVER EVER EVER EVER. This was the worst game I have seen a Pacer play this year just horrible, at least Jack's shot looks good when he misses this guy looks like he is throwing up a damn boulder at the rim and not a basketball.

gilpdawg
03-27-2006, 11:05 PM
Yep, players have bad games sometimes. This forum gets too up on certain players after a good game and too down on certain players after a bad game. Rick didn't lose this game. Miami won it. Too much Shaq & too much Wade.

Bball
03-27-2006, 11:05 PM
Jamaal had an awful game when he decided to force things.

Why was Jermaine on Shaq for the last couple minutes (or was it longer?)?

-Bball

Jermaniac
03-27-2006, 11:06 PM
Ohh and dont think this isnt Carlisle's fault either. This smart guy kept Tinsley in the game, who the hell allows their players to keep shooting over and over like that. Tinsley and Carlisle lost this game for us amazing coaching tonight.

Jaydawg2270
03-27-2006, 11:06 PM
He should of stopped shooting, he made really bad decisions but rick has got to pull him aside and tell him to stop and get his head back in the game and not worry about the one on one crap he pulls.

D-BONE
03-27-2006, 11:06 PM
Tins since his return is a regular roller coaster. Almost on an every-other game basis. Will he establish any consistency? I repeate this team needs G help.

Jaydawg2270
03-27-2006, 11:07 PM
Yep, players have bad games sometimes. This forum gets too up on certain players after a good game and too down on certain players after a bad game. Rick didn't lose this game. Miami won it. Too much Shaq & too much Wade.


Damn Straight

Ragnar
03-27-2006, 11:07 PM
Jamaal had a horrible game. If you can't see that then you are way too attached to Jamaal Tinsley's thigh.

I did not say Jamaal had a good game I said Rick lost this game. Yes Jamaal had a bad game. I supose no player in the history of the Pacers before Jamaal has ever had a bad game so we should burn Jamaal at the stake and blame him for Rick not playing Hulk barely playing Foster running too damn many set plays where the spacing was appaling.

If you were paying attention to the game at all you would see that most of Jamaal's shots (not all you nitpickers) came durring those ****ty plays.

Ragnar
03-27-2006, 11:09 PM
No you need to jump off Tins thats what it is. The guy lost us the damn game. Open your damn eyes, the guy started shooting us out of the game. HE SHOULD NEVER SHOOT if he is not in the paint NEVER EVER EVER EVER. This was the worst game I have seen a Pacer play this year just horrible, at least Jack's shot looks good when he misses this guy looks like he is throwing up a damn boulder at the rim and not a basketball.


Never shoot because tonight he shot poorly. You seem to forget that in the playoffs he shoots 61% and that he single handedly won the last 5 games against the Heat.

If you cant see the stupid mistakes Rick made tonight then you are the one needing to open your eyes. Maybe if you did you would see that I acknowledged that Jamaal had a bad game.

indytoad
03-27-2006, 11:10 PM
Can't we just agree that this team would be better off without both of them? Who cares which one is more incompitent when they're both gone.

IndyToad
Pinkies up

Unclebuck
03-27-2006, 11:10 PM
I have no problem with Tinsley only hitting 3 shots, but I have a huge problem with him taking 16 shots, and many of those were quick shots.

Also, PLEASE J.O. BLOCK OUT. it is no accident that the Pacers defensive rebounding sucks now that J.O. is back

Oh and Tinsley's defense on Williams was horrible also.

Jermaniac
03-27-2006, 11:11 PM
How the hell are you supposed to block out when your teammates keep getting beat off the dribble and you are trying to protect the basket. How many times did JO change a shot tonight and no one helped him and his man got an offensive board? MANY TIMES

Fireball Kid
03-27-2006, 11:11 PM
Rick lost this game not Jamaal. If you cant see that then you know nothing about basketball.

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2327/orly1fo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Ant
03-27-2006, 11:12 PM
Can't we just agree that this team would be better off without both of them? Who cares which one is more incompitent when they're both gone.

IndyToad
Pinkies up

Ding Ding Ding Ding

Exactamundo

Unclebuck
03-27-2006, 11:14 PM
How the hell are you supposed to block out when your teammates keep getting beat off the dribble and you are trying to protect the basket. How many times did JO change a shot tonight and no one helped him and his man got an offensive board? MANY TIMES



That is a good point

SoupIsGood
03-27-2006, 11:15 PM
Let's hope Tinsley rebounds well from this, because he is the best we got right now.

Will Galen
03-27-2006, 11:16 PM
Tinsel shouldn't be shooting 16 times a game. At best he is fourth option. He lost that game with an assist from Carlisle! Carlisle should have set him down and kept him down.

sweabs
03-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Also, PLEASE J.O. BLOCK OUT. it is no accident that the Pacers defensive rebounding sucks now that J.O. is back

Ding ding ding!

I don't want to get into it too much in this "Tinsley thread"...but this is what I've always said. He just flat out doesn't do it. I knew this would happen.

I happened to enjoy outrebounding teams with Pollard and Foster together blocking out on the boards. I realize that JO brings a huge low-post threat to our team on the offensive end, but it's cancelling out his production when he allows guys to just swoop in out of nowhere for the offensive rebound.

Just pathetic. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

As far as Tinsley goes - he needs to realize something from tonight's game. When did he have success? When he went to the rim! I love Jamaal when he's going to the rim, and I don't even mind when he takes 10-12 shots like that. But I do not like the Jamaal that settles for outside jumpers.

Defenses are starting to gear towards a specific strategy to try and "bait" Jamaal. They're going to try and tempt him to take those outside shots...that's what happened tonight. Jamaal becomes baited, and opts out to shoot it like he has something to prove. It's as if he takes it as a personal slap in the face towards his game...so he feels the need to hit the shot and prove "yeah...you better not leave me open". I think that's why he kept opting to shoot those long range shots.

How about instead of settling - he use that space to drive back to the rim and get in his comfort zone where he is dangerous. Payton couldn't do crap against Jamaal when he was being aggressive.

Unclebuck
03-27-2006, 11:23 PM
I'll repeat myself, Tinsley should only shoot outside of 12 feet as a last resort. Last resort being 2 or 3 seconds on the shot clock.

Tinsley played a grerat game against the Sixers and he took 4 shots. 4 shots

pizza guy
03-27-2006, 11:26 PM
There is no way I will ever believe that Jamaal Tinsley should take 16 shots in a game. Is he trying to be Starbury now, or what? No reason for that crap at all. And there is no way I'll ever believe that Carlisle is what we need to be a championship team. If he's going to keep our biggest player on the bench while our other guys get beat on by the league's biggest player, he should lose his job. If he is going to keep Sarunas buried like he has, especially when Tinsley is having the suckiest night of his career, then RC should be fired. There was absolutely no reason why we should have lost this game.

Bball
03-27-2006, 11:29 PM
I'll repeat myself, Tinsley should only shoot outside of 12 feet as a last resort. Last resort being 2 or 3 seconds on the shot clock.

Tinsley played a grerat game against the Sixers and he took 4 shots. 4 shots

Unless Tinsley is on fire, why should he ever shoot 16 times? Is that what our PG is supposed to do? Where's the ball sharing in that that Bird was wanting?

And to the point that JO is having to pick up the defensive slack from our guards allowing dribble penetration which adversely affects JO (and thus 'our') rebounding... Where was this adversity when JO first was sidelined back in January and we looked like rebounding monsters?

-Bball

Ragnar
03-27-2006, 11:31 PM
Ding ding ding!

I
As far as Tinsley goes - he needs to realize something from tonight's game. When did he have success? When he went to the rim! I love Jamaal when he's going to the rim, and I don't even mind when he takes 10-12 shots like that. But I do not like the Jamaal that settles for outside jumpers.

Defenses are starting to gear towards a specific strategy to try and "bait" Jamaal. They're going to try and tempt him to take those outside shots...that's what happened tonight. Jamaal becomes baited, and opts out to shoot it like he has something to prove. It's as if he takes it as a personal slap in the face towards his game...so he feels the need to hit the shot and prove "yeah...you better not leave me open". I think that's why he kept opting to shoot those long range shots.

How about instead of settling - he use that space to drive back to the rim and get in his comfort zone where he is dangerous. Payton couldn't do crap against Jamaal when he was being aggressive.

I agree with this.

pizza guy
03-27-2006, 11:31 PM
Oh, and BTW, JO doesn't usually box out because he's a shot-blocker. He goes up and contends every shot around the hoop. There needs to be weak side help to compensate for that. It's also why Shaq gest alley-oops from DWade all the time. JO closes out on Wade for the block, but Wade lobs it up for Shaq. That's JO's style, his game, it's part of who he is. But, he should be playing at the 4, and the 5 (Harrison) should be the one boxing out.

SoupIsGood
03-27-2006, 11:33 PM
Oh, and BTW, JO doesn't usually box out because he's a shot-blocker. He goes up and contends every shot around the hoop. There needs to be weak side help to compensate for that. It's also why Shaq gest alley-oops from DWade all the time. JO closes out on Wade for the block, but Wade lobs it up for Shaq. That's JO's style, his game, it's part of who he is. But, he should be playing at the 4, and the 5 (Harrison) should be the one boxing out.

Yes!

Tins/AJ/Granger/JO/Hulk

I want that lineup to play, and play a lot

SoupIsGood
03-27-2006, 11:33 PM
Man what is this crap comin on the WB

Unclebuck
03-27-2006, 11:37 PM
Man what is this crap comin on the WB


LOL

NorCal_Pacerfan
03-28-2006, 12:14 AM
Rick lost this game not Jamaal. If you cant see that then you know nothing about basketball.

Rag - I didn't say or suggest that Tins lost this game. And I didn't comment on Ricks coaching.

I stand by my comments regarding Tins' shooting.

I will say this - if there is no other option - in the last 2 minutes - towards the end of the shot-clock - Tins should shoot only if he can get in the lane and float one or grab a layup. His spontaneous outside shots have always been a problem with him.

And I will never understand Ricks thinking. No Harrison tonight? Why?

And why the heck did he put Runi in at the end of the game all of a sudden? Runi didn't see a minute against Philly. Strange.

grace
03-28-2006, 12:29 AM
Look. I respect Tins. BUT - when he's 3-16 and 0-4 from 3 pt range - by all means he SHOULD NOT be shooting the ball in the last 2 minutes. This is when he takes ill advised shots with minimal ball movement. Argh.

All I know is in the first quarter Slick was mad that Jamaal was passing up shots.

Bball
03-28-2006, 12:47 AM
All I know is in the first quarter Slick was mad that Jamaal was passing up shots.

It's possible that both views (this thread AND Slick's) are correct and understandable.

Slick wasn't calling for him to take quick shots or a shot ever trip was he? There's a difference in a bad shot and a missed shot... altho Sjax blurs the line sometimes ;)

-Bball

CableKC
03-28-2006, 02:11 AM
I'll repeat myself, Tinsley should only shoot outside of 12 feet as a last resort. Last resort being 2 or 3 seconds on the shot clock.

Tinsley played a grerat game against the Sixers and he took 4 shots. 4 shots
With JONeal's initial groin pull......and him assimiliting back into the lineup....maybe that is why Tinsley took more shots?

I think with JONeal playing his 3rd game back.....Tinsley goes from the 4th scoring option to the 3rd scoring option.......but with the way he was shooting...I would much rather have given the 5 extra FGA to Peja.

But I entirely agree with you....when ( and if ) JONeal returns to game form....Tinsley should be taking significantly less shots.

The Toxic Avenger
03-28-2006, 02:40 AM
Yes!

Tins/AJ/Granger/JO/Hulk

I want that lineup to play, and play a lot
Preach it!

Preach...

CableKC
03-28-2006, 03:29 AM
And why the heck did he put Runi in at the end of the game all of a sudden? Runi didn't see a minute against Philly. Strange.
Maybe cuz by then.....Carlisle realized that both the PGs that were playing weren't hitting the side of the barn.

The problem is....with less then a couple of minutes in the game......it was too late.:confused:

waterjater
03-28-2006, 03:55 AM
I have no problem with Tinsley only hitting 3 shots, but I have a huge problem with him taking 16 shots, and many of those were quick shots.

Also, PLEASE J.O. BLOCK OUT. it is no accident that the Pacers defensive rebounding sucks now that J.O. is back

Oh and Tinsley's defense on Williams was horrible also.

I'm with you! JO only rebounds when the ball comes to him. Rarely does he fight for position and go after rebounds.

Granger and Foster hunt down rebounds. If JO joined them we'd be that much tougher.

I was screaming at Tinsley for shooting. For Fux sake, he should be the LAST option to shoot when all else fails.

Water

GntsTel
03-28-2006, 06:03 AM
The stats for all the games since JT is back (and played):
J. Tinsley______________________<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>Min<X-TAB> ____</X-TAB>FGM-A<X-TAB> </X-TAB>3PM-A
03/27/06 L 96-91 @ Heat_________<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>33:14<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>4-17<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-4
03/26/06 W 92-79 vs Philadelphia__<X-TAB></X-TAB>35:19 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-4<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-1
03/24/06 L 75-72 vs Detroit<X-TAB> ______</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>26:58 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-8<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-1
03/22/06 W 95-85 vs Chicago<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>24:12 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-7<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-2
03/19/06 L 103-88 vs Boston _____<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>19:44 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-12<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>1-4
03/17/06 W 98-93 vs Sacramento _<X-TAB></X-TAB>27:26 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>9-17<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-1
03/15/06 L 101-99 vs Denver<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>24:48 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-12<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-2
03/13/06 W 97-83 vs Orlando<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>23:36 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-11<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-1
03/12/06 L 93-89 @ Toronto<X-TAB> ______</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>23:22 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>4-8<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-2
03/10/06 W 92-90 @ NO/Okla. City<X-TAB> _</X-TAB>13:45 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-7<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-2
03/08/06 L 103-99 @ Houston<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>18:13 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-6<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>1-3
03/07/06 L 107-92 vs New York<X-TAB> ____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>08:51 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-3<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>1-1
<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>_____________________Total:<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>279:28<X-TAB> _</X-TAB>40-112<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>3-24
<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>_____________________Per game:<X-TAB> </X-TAB>23:17<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>35.7%<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>12.5%

Looking at the stats, I can understand why JT is still shooting, but the only reason that comes to my mind on why he is still throwing 3's (at 12.5%) is that he cannot forget how he was feeling when in the very first game, the first attempt to hit the 3 pointer went in.

owl
03-28-2006, 09:38 AM
Tins since his return is a regular roller coaster. Almost on an every-other game basis. Will he establish any consistency? I repeate this team needs G help.


Amen to that. I have seen enough. This team would be better with
Marbury and that is a sad commentary on Tinsley. Can we have
Chauncey Billups for a year? Jackson is not far behind. I can't decide
who hurts the Pacers more sometimes. They seem to take turns.
Ride the season out and hope for better things next year.


owl

owl
03-28-2006, 09:45 AM
All I know is in the first quarter Slick was mad that Jamaal was passing up shots.


As well he should be but if the guard is not hitting his shots someone else
should be given a chance. When the pg is hitting his shots on this team
it makes the Pacers very tough to defend. Maybe give Runi a chance.
Something has to change in the offseason. Heck 40% consistently would be
a huge improvement for the Pacers.


owl

naptownmenace
03-28-2006, 10:21 AM
The stats for all the games since JT is back (and played):
J. Tinsley______________________<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>Min<X-TAB> ____</X-TAB>FGM-A<X-TAB> </X-TAB>3PM-A
03/27/06 L 96-91 @ Heat_________<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>33:14<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>4-17<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-4
03/26/06 W 92-79 vs Philadelphia__<X-TAB></X-TAB>35:19 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-4<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-1
03/24/06 L 75-72 vs Detroit<X-TAB> ______</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>26:58 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-8<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-1
03/22/06 W 95-85 vs Chicago<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>24:12 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-7<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-2
03/19/06 L 103-88 vs Boston _____<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>19:44 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-12<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>1-4
03/17/06 W 98-93 vs Sacramento _<X-TAB></X-TAB>27:26 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>9-17<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-1
03/15/06 L 101-99 vs Denver<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>24:48 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-12<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-2
03/13/06 W 97-83 vs Orlando<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>23:36 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-11<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>0-1
03/12/06 L 93-89 @ Toronto<X-TAB> ______</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>23:22 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>4-8<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-2
03/10/06 W 92-90 @ NO/Okla. City<X-TAB> _</X-TAB>13:45 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>3-7<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>0-2
03/08/06 L 103-99 @ Houston<X-TAB> _____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>18:13 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-6<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>1-3
03/07/06 L 107-92 vs New York<X-TAB> ____</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>08:51 __<X-TAB></X-TAB>2-3<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB>1-1
<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>_____________________Total:<X-TAB> ___</X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>279:28<X-TAB> _</X-TAB>40-112<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>3-24
<X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB><X-TAB></X-TAB>_____________________Per game:<X-TAB> </X-TAB>23:17<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>35.7%<X-TAB> __</X-TAB>12.5%

Looking at the stats, I can understand why JT is still shooting, but the only reason that comes to my mind on why he is still throwing 3's (at 12.5%) is that he cannot forget how he was feeling when in the very first game, the first attempt to hit the 3 pointer went in.


Ugghhhh! :banghead:

I really can't stand Tinsley. He's way too erratic. I don't even enjoy watching the Pacers play when he's in the game. I don't think I've ever felt that way about another Pacer... well maybe Pooh Richardson.

Knucklehead Warrior
03-28-2006, 10:28 AM
I'll add this little disclaimer so that I don't get neurons responding:
I yelled at the tv every time JT took a shot.

While you're all hammering on the tinman, isn't it interesting that nobody has mentioned that our favorite rookie played 23 minutes and didn't get a single rebound? That would be the same as a dead man. :rolleyes:

Enjoy the rest of your discussion.

beast23
03-28-2006, 10:40 AM
Ragnar, you state that Rick lost this game.

I agree with that. Rick lost the game because he didn’t have the common sense to take Tinsley out of the game.

If you look at what happened, we’ve seen it time and time again.

Tinsley gets burned by the man he is “supposedly” guarding. After getting burned a few times, he attempts to retaliate by scoring at the other end.

On the surface, I have no problem with that. Perhaps if you make Williams put more effort into defense, it will slow down his offense a little.

What I do have a major problem is how Tinsley attempted to score. But putting up so very many perimeter shots early in the possession. I think it should be the exception, but I really don’t have a problem with the PG taking 17 shots. But I do have a big problem in how he chose to take them. And, if you’re the PG and you do take more than 10 shots, you damn well better be hitting about 50% of them, otherwise all you are doing is hurting your team and dragging down your offense.

Again the fact that Tinsley shot 17 times doesn’t bother me. How and why it happened, and his lack of success under such circumstances do irritate me.

I was hoping when he got back from his injury, coming off the bench, that he would be humbled somewhat. But the 10 or so games he’s been back, we’re already starting to see the same old crap.

And quite frankly, I was already tired of it. Same old, Same old.

Raskolnikov
03-28-2006, 10:49 AM
While you're all hammering on the tinman, isn't it interesting that nobody has mentioned that our favorite rookie played 23 minutes and didn't get a single rebound?
It has been mentioned.

stew
03-28-2006, 11:00 AM
Ragnar, you state that Rick lost this game.

I agree with that. Rick lost the game because he didnít have the common sense to take Tinsley out of the game.



I dont get u guys... couple of games ago, some of u guys are screaming to let tinsley finish the game...

Anthem
03-28-2006, 11:24 AM
Amen to that. I have seen enough. This team would be better with Marbury and that is a sad commentary on Tinsley.
Well, I don't want Marbury, but if there were ever a team that would overpay for Jamaal it's New York.

beast23
03-28-2006, 11:34 AM
I dont get u guys... couple of games ago, some of u guys are screaming to let tinsley finish the game...What you don't get is that most of us are all for having the hot hand finish out the game.

Sometimes, that is Tinsley. Other times, it's AJ. Last night, it was neither.

So you go with the next best criteria. And that is to NOT go with the player that is hurting your team. IMO, last night, that was Tinsley.

Shade
03-28-2006, 11:41 AM
Most of the shots Tins took he took because he was wide freakin' open.

With that said, there's a reason he was wide freakin' open all the time.

Rick should definitely have played Runi last night. Both Tins and AJ were getting torched, and neither shot well. At least there's the chance that Runi finds his shot again, and he's better at orchrestrating the offense than AJ.

What really pisses me off, and I believe is the major reason we lost this game, was the fact that Hulk didn't get off the bench. I don't know why, but there had better be a damn good reason. I'd like to think that Rick isn't that damn stupid.

BillS
03-28-2006, 11:51 AM
What really pisses me off, and I believe is the major reason we lost this game, was the fact that Hulk didn't get off the bench. I don't know why, but there had better be a damn good reason. I'd like to think that Rick isn't that damn stupid.

As I said in the post-game thread, the way emotions were running out there Harrison would have been off the bench for about a minute before he got into a dust-up with Shaq or with a ref after being called for a foul when Shaq ran into him. Best case - technical and loss of concentration for the Pacers. Worst case - ejection or altercation and suspension for a couple of games.

I was worried enough about Jackson being out there, I can see why Harrison wasn't in.

Emotions aside, let's look at what was being done and what the game plan was.

Shaq basically had a 20-10 night, which means Pollard was playing some pretty good defense. If Shaq doesn't shoot out of his mind at the FT line he might very well have been below 20 points. In addition, our best offense came when Shaq was drawn away from the basket, which would not have happened if Harrison was in the middle. Harrison's offense is <i>not</i> going to overpower Shaq on defense.

Get over it. Shaq didn't beat us, and Hulk wouldn't have helped.

BillS
03-28-2006, 11:57 AM
I have no problem with Tinsley only hitting 3 shots, but I have a huge problem with him taking 16 shots, and many of those were quick shots.

Those of you blaming Rick's set plays need to re-read those last six words. Or, better still, write them on the blackboard 100 times. Or, maybe, Tinsley should write them on the blackboard 100 times.

It was the quick, "look at me I'll hit a three and change the momentum!" shots that lost us the lead. They happen before anyone can get into position for a rebound.

We consistently fail to dance with the one who brung us. We get ahead by drawing the middle away from the basket and penetrating, then suddenly fall in love with the outside jumper. I would be willing to put some blame on Rick, maybe he adjusts to the other team after they try to keep the middle collapsed sooner than he should, but a quick shot is NOT the coach's fault, except perhaps for leaving the player in too long.

As far as using Runi in this situation, oh my Lord would that have led to being eaten alive by the Heat's guard combination.

J_2_Da_IzzO
03-28-2006, 12:37 PM
Tinsley should never ever take more then 10 shots a game in my opinion let alone 17 (highest on team).

Los Angeles
03-28-2006, 01:41 PM
I dont get u guys... couple of games ago, some of u guys are screaming to let tinsley finish the game...
You need to learn to associate user names with opinions.

The "you guys" you are referring to are largely the same ones giving Tins a break after the Miami game. The ones giving him a hard time are largely the ones who didn't want him to finish the games.

If you feel that someone is being inconsistent, by all means call that person out. It would help to provide quotes when you do.

McKeyFan
03-28-2006, 01:47 PM
Maybe cuz by then.....Carlisle realized that both the PGs that were playing weren't hitting the side of the barn.

I think Rick put Runi in as part of a three point team. With less than a minute left, only a few threes would put us back in it and Runi was needed to help us try and pull off a hail Mary.

He didn't play in Philly because Rick is trying to spare him garbage minutes.

He didn't play earlier in this game because Rick doesn't believe he's better than Aj and Tins. But at the end, he has a better chance of getting off a quick three.

(I disagree with Runi sitting, btw, but I think this does explain why he got in in the last minute. Rick didn't suddenly decide to replace his other two point guards who were playing like crap.)

3ballinhoop
03-28-2006, 06:31 PM
The stats for all the games since JT is back (and played):
J. Tinsley______________________<x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>Min<x-tab> ____</x-tab>FGM-A<x-tab> </x-tab>3PM-A
03/27/06 L 96-91 @ Heat_________<x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>33:14<x-tab> __</x-tab>4-17<x-tab> __</x-tab>0-4
03/26/06 W 92-79 vs Philadelphia__<x-tab></x-tab>35:19 __<x-tab></x-tab>2-4<x-tab> ___</x-tab>0-1
03/24/06 L 75-72 vs Detroit<x-tab> ______</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>26:58 __<x-tab></x-tab>3-8<x-tab> ___</x-tab>0-1
03/22/06 W 95-85 vs Chicago<x-tab> _____</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>24:12 __<x-tab></x-tab>3-7<x-tab> __</x-tab>0-2
03/19/06 L 103-88 vs Boston _____<x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>19:44 __<x-tab></x-tab>2-12<x-tab> __</x-tab>1-4
03/17/06 W 98-93 vs Sacramento _<x-tab></x-tab>27:26 __<x-tab></x-tab>9-17<x-tab> __</x-tab>0-1
03/15/06 L 101-99 vs Denver<x-tab> _____</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>24:48 __<x-tab></x-tab>3-12<x-tab> __</x-tab>0-2
03/13/06 W 97-83 vs Orlando<x-tab> _____</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>23:36 __<x-tab></x-tab>3-11<x-tab> __</x-tab>0-1
03/12/06 L 93-89 @ Toronto<x-tab> ______</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>23:22 __<x-tab></x-tab>4-8<x-tab> ___</x-tab>0-2
03/10/06 W 92-90 @ NO/Okla. City<x-tab> _</x-tab>13:45 __<x-tab></x-tab>3-7<x-tab> ___</x-tab>0-2
03/08/06 L 103-99 @ Houston<x-tab> _____</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>18:13 __<x-tab></x-tab>2-6<x-tab> ___</x-tab>1-3
03/07/06 L 107-92 vs New York<x-tab> ____</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>08:51 __<x-tab></x-tab>2-3<x-tab> ___</x-tab>1-1
<x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>_____________________Total:<x-tab> ___</x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>279:28<x-tab> _</x-tab>40-112<x-tab> __</x-tab>3-24
<x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab><x-tab></x-tab>_____________________Per game:<x-tab> </x-tab>23:17<x-tab> __</x-tab>35.7%<x-tab> __</x-tab>12.5%



Oh good goddess of ballplayers all around this beautiful world. Since the Tinman is back, the Mel-Mel team is 5-7. Of course he has had good and worse games. But come on; 12.5 percent from downtown? He can't be serious. 3 of 24. That's the most horrible guard shooting I can remember in the NBA. Woah, I still can't believe it. What a frightening shooting percentage. Not even mentioning the often non-existant defence. J-Will anybody?

Jermaniac
03-28-2006, 06:44 PM
2 and 1 since Jamaal is starting. Lost to probably the team playing the best ball in the nba since the ASW on a back to back. Not so bad.

GntsTel
03-29-2006, 05:12 AM
Those of you blaming Rick's set plays need to re-read those last six words. Or, better still, write them on the blackboard 100 times. Or, maybe, Tinsley should write them on the blackboard 100 times.

It was the quick, "look at me I'll hit a three and change the momentum!" shots that lost us the lead. They happen before anyone can get into position for a rebound.

We consistently fail to dance with the one who brung us. We get ahead by drawing the middle away from the basket and penetrating, then suddenly fall in love with the outside jumper. I would be willing to put some blame on Rick, maybe he adjusts to the other team after they try to keep the middle collapsed sooner than he should, but a quick shot is NOT the coach's fault, except perhaps for leaving the player in too long.


If, during 10 CONSECUTIVE games, the POINT GUARD has been consistently shooting 3's at 5% (1-20), there is something wrong with the common sense of either point guard or the coach or .. both of them.

Seed
03-29-2006, 07:02 AM
I may have found the solution to all this. It was suggested Tins is pregnant. It was also suggested we could profit from combining his ball handling with Sarunas's shooting and AJ's defense.
SO... All we need to do is breed them together into the Pacers next generation PG.
Oh but wait, something just crossed my mind, what if the child will inherit all their worst qualities? That would make... let me see .... Oh my god!
Saras + Jamal + Anthony = S-Jax
:-o

#31
03-29-2006, 07:44 AM
Yes!

Tins/Granger/Peja/JO/Hulk

I want that lineup to play, and play a lot

Fixed ;). They gotta find a way to keep Granger & Peja in there at the same time. Nice things happens!

Seed
03-29-2006, 06:15 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question.html


Q. Do you see the difference in Jamaal Tinsley's game when he plays as a pure point guard rather than as a scoring or shooting point guard? I noticed when he plays to distribute the ball and gets his team involved as a playmaker like in the 76ers game Sunday he makes his team a lot better and his teammates become more involved. But when he plays as a scoring point guard like he did against the Heat he takes the whole team out of rhythm and ruins the flow of the game. Why is Tinsley trying to score instead of creating? (From Bobby in Eugene, Ore.)
A. Generally speaking, Tinsley has been very good about trying to pick his spots, when it comes to scoring. He doesn't take a scorer's mindset into every game but, as things unfold, he can adjust to the situation and become more aggressive. Occasionally, however, he lets his emotions get the better of him and he can get caught up in a mano-a-mano duel with the opposing point guard. Miami's Jason Williams got hot against Tinsley in the third quarter, scoring 11 points in an 18-6 run that turned the game in favor of the Heat. Tinsley showed poor judgment during that stretch, trying to answer Williams with jumpers of his own rather than moving the ball.
Once he abandoned his errant jumper and started penetrating, he was instrumental in the fourth quarter run that put the Pacers ahead 79-75. Alas, the stagnation that has plagued the team so often in close games took hold and the offense stalled. You are absolutely correct that the team is at its best when Tinsley is focused on creating and distributing. The Pacers are 8-1 when he has at least seven assists; they're 5-14 when he has fewer than five. But it also isn't necessary for him to abandon his own offensive game for the team to succeed. It's not that he's shooting, it's what he's shooting. The Pacers have plenty of perimeter threats. Tinsley separates himself from the pack and becomes a highly effective offensive weapon when he attacks the basket. That's the kind of aggression the team needs from its young veteran point guard.