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Los Angeles
03-27-2006, 09:47 PM
Anyone who thinks there is an anti-Pacers bias in officiating needs to watch the first half of this Miami game.

You have to admit, a couple of those techs were not necessary.

A few of the fouls against the Heat could have easily been no-calls.

But this isn't just about this game. Dig a little deeper, and I think the anti-Pacers foul myth stems from the Pacers-Knicks rivalry of the 90's. I'll try to write more on this later, but in the mean time, anyone agree? Disagree? Think I've lost it?

Post you feelings on the Pacers and the refs here.

Bball
03-27-2006, 09:53 PM
Some of it stems from the Knicks rivalry...yes...

And some of it (IMHO) stems from the Pacers (historically) refusing to STFU and play the game therefore using up their 'benefit of the doubt' card with the refs. If you constantly b*tch and glare at the refs then you aren't going to get the calls.

The refs are human and it's human nature at play.

There are always going to be bad calls. If you are going to *i***, only do it when you have a point... not every time the whistle blows.

The Pacers have certainly had our share of whiners when it comes to the refs.

-Bball

efx
03-27-2006, 09:56 PM
It has nothing to do with the team as a whole. Any "crap" that the players recieve is because as Bball said they are refusing to STFU and play the game.

If it was any sort of conspiracy it would be noticed by fans other than pacers fans and seeing as it is not and also by reading forums for other teams you see that everyone complains about how "their" team is officiated poorly.

So personally I don't believe in any conspiracy.

sweabs
03-27-2006, 10:00 PM
A lot of the calls being made in this game might seem over the top...but it's in an effort to gain control of the game before anything gets out of hand.

Commendable job so far.

indytoad
03-27-2006, 10:23 PM
I don't think there's an anti-Pacers conspiracy - I don't think there's any conspiracy againt any team, including any "big market" bias. There IS a star bias, though, and stars often end up in big markets, which leads to a lot of big teams getting the benefit of the doubt more often than not.

IndyToad
Why were you arrested?

Shade
03-27-2006, 10:49 PM
I don't think it's anti-Pacers, I just think it's the refs being a bunch of incompetent cowards.

FreshPrince22
03-27-2006, 11:03 PM
Every fan thinks the refs are out to get their team. That's just how it is.

gilpdawg
03-27-2006, 11:19 PM
Every fan thinks the refs are out to get their team. That's just how it is.
Exactly. And if you go to a Heat forum tonight, they are all probably mad that Haslem got ejected. No fan is impartial on these kind of boards. The only bias in the NBA is the Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, star player bias, which, while it pisses me off, is human nature. I think the Pacer fan complaints all stem from one call, and you know which one I'm talking about. Think Grandmama....

That game still stings, for me. Even more than 11/19.

Jermaniac
03-27-2006, 11:31 PM
Next time when one of our players get in a fight, a player from our team trying to stop the fight needs to walk over and grab the other teams players by the throat and choke them. Thats the new rule and its allowed.

sweabs
03-27-2006, 11:43 PM
Next time when one of our players get in a fight, a player from our team trying to stop the fight needs to walk over and grab the other teams players by the throat and choke them. Thats the new rule and its allowed.

That chokehold by Shaq really upset me.

The biggest guy in the league, and one of the biggest men on this planet puts his hand around a guys throat...THAT IS A THREAT. No other way around it - it's flat out a THREAT.

JO took the high-road and decided not to react...but what if he had? If someone put their hand on my throat I would react against almost anyone (except for Shaq) - and that's why I think he got away with it and likely will get away with it. Nothing resulted, although it could have very likely turned into something ugly.

I hope he is suspended.

Slick Pinkham
03-27-2006, 11:50 PM
Shaq won't get suspended, since JO kept his cool. That shouldn't matter, but it does. No fight resulted, so they won't argue that Shaq caused any fight.

It should have been a T on Shaq.

One of the few bad calls made tonight, at least one of the few that had any impact whatsoever on the game.

Eindar
03-27-2006, 11:59 PM
Anyone who thinks there is an anti-Pacers bias in officiating needs to watch the first half of this Miami game.

You have to admit, a couple of those techs were not necessary.

A few of the fouls against the Heat could have easily been no-calls.

But this isn't just about this game. Dig a little deeper, and I think the anti-Pacers foul myth stems from the Pacers-Knicks rivalry of the 90's. I'll try to write more on this later, but in the mean time, anyone agree? Disagree? Think I've lost it?

Post you feelings on the Pacers and the refs here.

If Harrison had choked Dwayne Wade, would he be in the game?

Didn't think so.

tinsley#11
03-28-2006, 12:19 AM
i missed the game does anyone have any video of that?

Jermaniac
03-28-2006, 12:21 AM
Watch ESPN they will probably have an Outside the Lines about it tonight.

grace
03-28-2006, 12:27 AM
Exactly. And if you go to a Heat forum tonight, they are all probably mad that Haslem got ejected.

IMO it's Pat Riley's fault that Haslem got ejected. While they were waiting for the refs to make the call Pat or one of the other coaches should have been in Haslem's grill telling him to STFU. They didn't. He didn't. He got tossed.

I'm not even going to discuss Shaq except to say that him not getting tossed was payback for Ron spraining his ankle in the first game. You decide if I'm serious or not.

sweabs
03-28-2006, 12:28 AM
The greatest thing about the entire debacle was the fact that we were on the good side of things for once.

How nice is it to not have to worry about what crazy stunt Artest will pull in a situation like that, or during the 2nd half (if he's still there)? Miami was exposed as a bunch of immature punks after that mess...mainly Haslem. I mean, did he think he was funny with the little smirk and cussing out/threatening Jermaine on his way to the bench? No - JO just stood there with a look of confusion, while Haslem just looked like a little immature kid in his first fight.

Bball
03-28-2006, 01:07 AM
The greatest thing about the entire debacle was the fact that we were on the good side of things for once.

How nice is it to not have to worry about what crazy stunt Artest will pull in a situation like that, or during the 2nd half (if he's still there)? Miami was exposed as a bunch of immature punks after that mess...mainly Haslem. I mean, did he think he was funny with the little smirk and cussing out/threatening Jermaine on his way to the bench? No - JO just stood there with a look of confusion, while Haslem just looked like a little immature kid in his first fight.

Meanwhile, they still beat us.... :cry:

-Bball

Jose Slaughter
03-28-2006, 01:18 AM
Yes, they did beat us, but I think, in a small way, this team may have grown a little tonight.

SoupIsGood
03-28-2006, 01:24 AM
Meanwhile, they still beat us.... :cry:

-Bball

OK, now you're just being negative for negative's sake.

Bball
03-28-2006, 01:29 AM
OK, now you're just being negative for negative's sake.

I meant it was the other team suffering from a mental meltdown and losing their composure (not us) and we still managed to lose the game. At 14 games left in the season, and hovering around .500, moral victories don't mean much to me.

That's being negative... I agree... It's also being realistic. We've still got problems.

-Bball

waterjater
03-28-2006, 01:34 AM
Did you notice the 2nd half, they completely made up for anything we got....and frankly went over the TOP to NOT call any fouls on the Heat in the 2nd half.

They called less than 10 fouls on the Heat in the 2nd half (No I didn't count, I'm just guessing). They could play physical without FEAR of any calls.

Which goes right back to my stated opinion on officiating in the NBA. Besides the fact is SUCKS...is the team behind always gets the benefit of the doubt....this is why there are a lot of close games and only a few blowouts.

The only way to maintain a lead in the NBA is to make shots despite getting fouled or MOVE the ball and hit the open shot.

This was a classic NBA game where one team gets a lead and can't maintain it because they can't get to the line in the 2nd half while the other team comes back. Again, I'm never afraid of any deficit and no lead is safe. Just ask the Kings about the Lakers miracle comeback.....NBA BS.

This is also why all fans feel like their team gets screwed, because once they get a lead they can't get a call to save their life.

Accept it and the NBA becomes much less stressful to watch. And try my theory out.....it plays itself out night in and night out in the NBA.

I used to be a "consipiracy" theorist with the Pacers, especially vs. the Knicks when Bavetta, Mathis and a host of other Horrible officials continually seemed to screw us. Then I overheard an official on a satellite feed talking about how they had the game right where they wanted it, and if they keep missing, theres nothing they could do about it. This proved to me that the NBA is just theatre for 3 qtrs and why it usually boils down to the 4th quarter.

I used to love watching the Celtics play with Bird and company and how they just seemed to hang with the other team until the 4th and turned it on. I believe they understood this theory and didn't waste a bunch of energy building big leads because they wouldn't stick.

Note: Shaq should be suspended for the Choke hold. I still just totally hate that jerk.

Water

Slick Pinkham
03-28-2006, 09:20 AM
Some of the reactions of Pacers fans to officiating are very much like Tommy Heinson's reactions to officiating in Celtics game.

The refs are out to get us.
We've never fouled anybody.
They foul every play, and every foul should be a flagrant 2 and result in ejection.

Please people, get a grip. We were badly outhustled and the refs had not a smidgeon of impact upon how badly we didn't rebound, upon how we didn't block out, and upon our horrible shot selection.

waxman
03-28-2006, 12:01 PM
Shaq should've been ejected for the choke hold... that was ridiculous. JO stood his gound though and didn't lose it.... he just kept sayin'.... "What you gonna do boy?!!"

Kegboy
03-28-2006, 04:13 PM
I don't think it's anti-Pacers, I just think it's the refs being a bunch of incompetent cowards.

Here here.

Eindar
03-28-2006, 07:40 PM
Some of the reactions of Pacers fans to officiating are very much like Tommy Heinson's reactions to officiating in Celtics game.

The refs are out to get us.
We've never fouled anybody.
They foul every play, and every foul should be a flagrant 2 and result in ejection.

Please people, get a grip. We were badly outhustled and the refs had not a smidgeon of impact upon how badly we didn't rebound, upon how we didn't block out, and upon our horrible shot selection.

That's coaches' drivel to try to get his guys to play harder and ignore the refs. On an NBA stage, it doesn't take anything as dramatic as...say, a 4 point play at the end of a playoff game to swing the game. All you have to do is find 3 or 4 calls that could go either way, and award them one way. Even better, make one of those a momentum killer or reversal, and you've essentially iced the game for one team, unless they aren't even trying. You can easily change a 50/50 game to be more like 60/40, and that's usually enough. As a bonus, it's subtle enough that most people won't notice it, and it's certainly not blatant enough for the league to get involved, or care. Why do you think the NBA never publicly announces when a ref makes a mistake, and for that matter, why is the whole NBA officiating thing so secretive anyway? They're almost as bad as the Freemasons for letting you know anything about the inner workings.

I hate to be an anti-Pacers conspiracy guy, but I've never seen a game where that pattern was apparent FOR the Pacers. I've seen several where that pattern was AGAINST the Pacers, and also against other small market teams (Barring the Face of the League, Tim Duncan). It's just been too consistent for too long for me to ignore it.