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View Full Version : A lesson kids, why you do NOT intentionally foul in a 3-point game.....



Kstat
03-24-2006, 12:20 AM
Dallas leads GS by 3 with 16.5 left.

Dallas intentionally fouls Jason Richardson (who had been making everything all night), JRich hits both.

GS fouls stack, Stack hits both.

Not to be outdone, Dallas intentionally fouls Fisher (another great FT shooter), he hits both.

...then Terry gets fouled. He hits the 1st FT to put the Mavs up 2 with 4.7 seconds left......

....and misses the 2nd FT.

JRich comes down the court and hits a 3 at the buzzer, Warriors win.

Now, if Dallas had just played honest D when this whole thing started, worst-case scenario it's overtime. Most likely Dirk (who had 52 already) would have hit the game winner, even in the event of a tie.

Instead, it's game over, no chance to respond. And Dallas was up 3 with under 20 seconds left. They should never have lost this in regulation.

It's much simpler if you just play defense and force the other team to take a tough shot. When you foul, it adds another variable that doesn't have to be there and could easily go against you.

(on a side note, Dirk should be ashamed of himself. He goes to the line up 4 with 20 seconds left sitting on 50 points, and starts pumping his fist like Alonzo Mourning. WHat happens next? He misses the 2nd FT, loses the rebound at the other end, and on top of all that, he fouls the guy that picked up the ball, resulting in a 3-point play. Save the fist-pumping for when you've actually won, tough guy.)

Anthem
03-24-2006, 12:36 AM
(on a side note, Dirk should be ashamed of himself. He goes to the line up 4 with 20 seconds left sitting on 50 points, and starts pumping his fist like Alonzo Mourning. WHat happens next? He misses the 2nd FT, loses the rebound at the other end, and on top of all that, he fouls the guy that picked up the ball, resulting in a 3-point play. Save the fist-pumping for when you've actually won, tough guy.)
That's what I hate about NBA players. They're all about the show. In Europe, people care about actually winning the games. :flirt:

Fireball Kid
03-24-2006, 01:35 AM
Why didnt you just put this in the Random Thoughts thread?

Anyways, I didnt watch the game. I was too busy watching Texas WHICH ADVANCES WOO HOO!!

One more win and were in the F4.

Kstat
03-24-2006, 01:36 AM
Because I thought the point itself was bigger than a random thought.

Fireball Kid
03-24-2006, 01:39 AM
Fair enough.

denyfizle
03-24-2006, 01:42 AM
makes sense. yeah, id rather teams just play honest d in that situation unless there's less than 5 seconds left and the ideal situation that a bad FT shooter is the one to be fouled. but yea, it's not something id call a play for. 9 out of 10 time id go with just playing good d.

rexnom
03-24-2006, 01:43 AM
(on a side note, Dirk should be ashamed of himself. He goes to the line up 4 with 20 seconds left sitting on 50 points, and starts pumping his fist like Alonzo Mourning. WHat happens next? He misses the 2nd FT, loses the rebound at the other end, and on top of all that, he fouls the guy that picked up the ball, resulting in a 3-point play. Save the fist-pumping for when you've actually won, tough guy.)

Cut Dirk some slack...he's still mad about Kobe scoring 62 in three quarters on them...hehe...

Raskolnikov
03-24-2006, 02:29 AM
That's what I hate about NBA players. They're all about the show. In Europe, people care about actually winning the games. :flirt:
Finally you're talking some sense!

:flirt: right back at ya.

Bball
03-24-2006, 06:34 AM
They fouled with a 3 point lead and 16.5 secs left in the game???? They deserve to lose IMHO if I understood correctly.

That strategy might be something to think about at 3 secs left in the game but not 16 secs.

-Bball

Kstat
03-24-2006, 06:53 AM
They fouled with a 3 point lead and 16.5 secs left in the game???? They deserve to lose IMHO if I understood correctly.


basically, yes.

What I left out was after the fisher foul, he flung up a one-hander from mid-court and swished it. It could easily have been ruled a 4-point play instead of 2 FTs.

Slick Pinkham
03-24-2006, 10:03 AM
Never foul up three with the opposition having the ball, UNLESS there is under 3 seconds, and also if you are sure that you can foul then without them getting a shot off during the foul.

I don't think that anyone would condone fouling with that much time on the clock. I bet that Avery did not want that.

Ragnar
03-24-2006, 10:20 AM
Worst of all Dallas was bruned by this two years ago in Miami. They were up three with just a few seconds to go and fouled one of the Heat players. He hit the first missed the second the Heat got the rebound kicked it out behind the three point line and sunk the 3 as the clock expired.

Of all the teams in the NBA you would think they would have learned their lesson.

bulldog
03-24-2006, 11:02 AM
I still think you foul rather than give up the three if it's within 5 seconds or so...unless you're a really poor defensive rebounding team off of free throws.

But with 16.5 seconds left to play, that's ridiculous. I've actually never heard of anyone trying that. I didn't see the game - did it seem like a strategy, or were the Mavs just getting beat and having to foul?

Jermaniac
03-24-2006, 12:14 PM
That shot by JRich was so sick. The guy is easily my favorite player outside Jermaine and Jamaal. Sucks that he is stuck on the Warriors and wont make the playoffs for ages. I would love to have a guy like him playing for the Pacers.

Kstat
03-24-2006, 12:49 PM
it was %100 clear. Dallas was intentionally grabbing JRich 40 feet from the hoop. It as obviously done on purpose.

Chest Rockwell
03-24-2006, 01:46 PM
Maybe Avery Johnson will get the occasional criticism instead of everyone treating him like the second coming of Red Auerbach.

Since86
03-24-2006, 02:23 PM
There are times when you foul when you're up by three, but not with that much time on the clock.

I think the bigger lesson for all the kids that are out there, is to hit your damn FTs.

PacerMan
03-24-2006, 04:30 PM
Dallas leads GS by 3 with 16.5 left.

Dallas intentionally fouls Jason Richardson (who had been making everything all night), JRich hits both.

GS fouls stack, Stack hits both.

Not to be outdone, Dallas intentionally fouls Fisher (another great FT shooter), he hits both.

...then Terry gets fouled. He hits the 1st FT to put the Mavs up 2 with 4.7 seconds left......

....and misses the 2nd FT.

JRich comes down the court and hits a 3 at the buzzer, Warriors win.

Now, if Dallas had just played honest D when this whole thing started, worst-case scenario it's overtime. Most likely Dirk (who had 52 already) would have hit the game winner, even in the event of a tie.

Instead, it's game over, no chance to respond. And Dallas was up 3 with under 20 seconds left. They should never have lost this in regulation.

It's much simpler if you just play defense and force the other team to take a tough shot. When you foul, it adds another variable that doesn't have to be there and could easily go against you.

(on a side note, Dirk should be ashamed of himself. He goes to the line up 4 with 20 seconds left sitting on 50 points, and starts pumping his fist like Alonzo Mourning. WHat happens next? He misses the 2nd FT, loses the rebound at the other end, and on top of all that, he fouls the guy that picked up the ball, resulting in a 3-point play. Save the fist-pumping for when you've actually won, tough guy.)

That proves nothing except it CAN happen. Still MUCH more likely for a team to make one single 3 in that situation.
You foul.

Moses
03-24-2006, 06:13 PM
That proves nothing except it CAN happen. Still MUCH more likely for a team to make one single 3 in that situation.
You foul.
With 16 seconds left on the clock? Not a chance.

You only do that if there is 5sh seconds left in the game and you make sure you rebound on the second free throw miss.

Unclebuck
03-24-2006, 07:01 PM
I've never been a believer in fouling, and I wouldn't even consider it unless there is less than 5 seconds and even then I probably wouldn't.

McThugg
03-25-2006, 12:40 PM
Counter point as to why you DO foul. Washington was up 3 on UConn with 15 seconds left and allowed to passes without fouling and give up a 3 with a few seconds left to tie. And go on to lose in overtime. Fouling has the best odds in this situation.

PacerMan
03-25-2006, 12:59 PM
They have stat guys that do nothing but write down EVERY situation that occurs and then figure the statistical probabilities. (Of which I know nothing). If stats show a higher probability of the trailing team hitting a 3 to tie than winning after fouling and the ensuing possiblities, then you foul. Does that mean that XX% of the time the outcome will go the other way and fans will second guess the decision?
Yep.

Shade
03-25-2006, 04:07 PM
There are times when you foul when you're up by three, but not with that much time on the clock.

I think the bigger lesson for all the kids that are out there, is to hit your damn FTs.

QFT

FreshPrince22
03-26-2006, 11:57 AM
It's funny that this exact situation came up in the Pistons/Pacers game.

pacerwaala
03-26-2006, 05:43 PM
I guess Don Nelson's roams American Airlines arena as a senile ghost. This fouling when down by three has his name written all over it.

Personally, I would never foul because you have to look at the worst case scenario.

overtime vs loss

Even if you have to foul, it should not be dependent on how many seconds are there on the clock. It should be only if the other team has no timeouts.

FreshPrince22
03-26-2006, 11:08 PM
haha... Pistons just lost tonight with the Nets emploring the foul strategy.

Kstat
03-26-2006, 11:14 PM
haha... Pistons just lost tonight with the Nets emploring the foul strategy.

mostly due to us throwing away the inbounds pass.

If Kidd misses 1 FT, we come down and hit a 3 at the buzzer, we win. NJ has essentially given us a chance to win instead of go to OT.

Fool
03-27-2006, 01:39 PM
mostly due to us throwing away the inbounds pass.

If Kidd misses 1 FT, we come down and hit a 3 at the buzzer, we win. NJ has essentially given us a chance to win instead of go to OT.

IF they miss a free throw and IF the Pistons hit a buzzer beater on a full court inbounds pass. They were up 3 with about 5 seconds left. It was a good choice even with Billups shooting poorly that game.