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View Full Version : Jack to Ron-Ron: "They [Indy fans] boo me, and I play here."



Shade
03-18-2006, 12:36 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260317011



Artest booed in return to Indiana; Pacers top Kings

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Ron Artest (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3339) has never heard an Indiana crowd boo so loudly.He couldn't even recall the hated Detroit Pistons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=det) getting as rude a reception as he received from Pacers fans on Friday night.In the end, Pacers fans were cheering. Artest shot poorly in his return to Indiana as the Pacers beat the Sacramento Kings (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sac) 98-93.Artest was playing in Indianapolis for the first time since his trade request was granted and he was sent to the Kings for Peja Stojakovic seven weeks ago. Artest scored 18 points, but shot 6-for-22 from the field, including 2-for-14 in the second half.He was booed during pregame introductions, and that continued every time he touched the ball."If there was a fight between the fans who loved me or booed me, I think the boos would have won."The boos didn't surprise Indiana guard Stephen Jackson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3210)."I just told Ron he shouldn't feel bad," Jackson said. "They boo me, and I play here. I don't think it bothered him. If they'll boo me, they'll boo anybody."The fans saved their loudest pregame cheers for Stojakovic, who had 20 points and 12 rebounds to help the Pacers snap the Kings' five-game winning streak.The crowd reaction didn't bother Artest, but his shooting did."I missed a lot of layups," he said. "I was right there at the bucket and I missed layups. So that was pretty much it. I missed a ton of layups, a ton of layups."Artest said his former teammates treated him better than the fans did."There was a lot of love, you know, fives and daps, good luck, that sort of thing," he said.Artest's return overshadowed Danny Granger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3943)'s career night. The rookie forward, who Artest has compared to a young Scottie Pippen (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=268), scored 23 points. Artest was impressed with the youngster he took under his wing during training camp."He played good," Artest said. "He played real smart tonight. He's probably one of the better players on the team right now."Reserve point guard Jamaal Tinsley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3528) added 20 points for Indiana (33-30).Mike Bibby (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3245) led the Kings (33-32) with 22 points and Brad Miller (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3305), who also played for the Pacers, added 17.Sacramento led 52-41 at halftime, but the Pacers made 10 of their first 12 shots in the second half and took their first lead on Granger's jumper with 3:38 left in the third quarter that made the score 68-66.Artest shot 1-for-7 in the third quarter, but Kevin Martin (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3843) scored 10 points to help the Kings take a 76-75 lead at the end of the period.The Pacers took the lead for good on Granger's jumper with 4:28 left. Tinsley scored six points in the last 3:35 to help the Pacers stay in control.The Kings made their first six shots to take a 13-4 lead and force an Indiana timeout. They made two more before their first miss with 6:46 left in the first quarter.Artest scored his first basket with 7:42 left in the first quarter and drained a 3-pointer a minute later. Sacramento shot 70 percent in the first quarter and led 36-20 at the end of the period.The Kings' shooting touch disappeared in the second quarter and allowed the Pacers to climb back into the game.Bonzi Wells (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3254) was called for a flagrant penalty 1 when he pulled Granger's jersey while Granger went in for a dunk late in the second quarter. Granger laid on the ground for a while before making two free throws, then scoring on a mid-range jumper over Artest on the ensuing possession to cut Sacramento's lead to 45-41 with 2:09 left in the half.Artest scored on a layup with 4.7 seconds left in the half to give the Kings a 52-41 lead at the break.Artest said his primary concern Friday night was losing the game."I was more disappointed that we lost as a team as opposed to playing poorly," he said. "We just have to move on and get better. The big thing is we should have won this game."Game notes
Indiana point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3996) has played just two seconds the last three games with Tinsley back from an elbow injury. Jasikevicius played well enough this season to make the rookie challenge. ... Stojakovic averaged 16.5 in 31 games with Sacramento, but entered the game against his former team averaging 20.2 points for the Pacers. ... Miller was cheered during pregame introductions.

Jermaniac
03-18-2006, 12:39 PM
I feel bad for Jack that it happens to him, but if he was playing in NY or Philly and he shot like he did, he would get it much worse.

Hicks
03-18-2006, 12:40 PM
"If they'll boo me, they'll boo anybody."

I love his ego. Two of the darker spots in our recent franchise history get booed, and he's shocked.

'I couldn't have possibly, oh I don't know, done anything to earn it, could I? Nooooooo.'

Anthem
03-18-2006, 01:08 PM
"If they'll boo me, they'll boo anybody."

I love his ego.
I took it as "If they boo a member of the team, they'll boo anybody else."

Not necessarily as an ego thing.

Hicks
03-18-2006, 01:09 PM
It paints it like our fans are so "savage" that they'll boo their own without justification.

Jermaniac
03-18-2006, 01:11 PM
I took it as "If they boo a member of the team, they'll boo anybody else."

Not necessarily as an ego thing.Thats how I saw it.

Kaufman
03-18-2006, 01:13 PM
I think it's been a frustrating season and you heard a remark from a frustrated player. I didn't take it too personally.

Unclebuck
03-18-2006, 01:15 PM
I'm getting a little sick and tired of everyone booing and criticizing Jax. I'm not really talking about in this forum, but the general public. Yes I realize there are things he does that drive us all to drink, there are times when I want him sent to the locker room. But he is a talented player, and there are times when he's out of the game that the team does suffer. He does provide a certain energy and his defense while inconsistant is IMO underrated and often very much needed.

The fact is the team needs Jax right now. They aren't as good without him.

One thing I was thinking about last night during the game. I wonder what his shooting percentage is when he makes a quick move/decision, either shoot, drive or pass, vs when he holds it, fakes, and then shoots. It seems to me that it is much better when he does something quick and decisive.

Maybe the coaching staff can put together some video and stats to show Jax, so he realizes he is better when he makes a quick decision.

Hicks
03-18-2006, 01:16 PM
I wouldn't say I took it personally, I just find it ironic that he probably doesn't think he's earned any boo-ing.

Roy Munson
03-18-2006, 01:24 PM
Yes I realize there are things he does that drive us all to drink,...

Have another glass of milk.

PacerMan
03-18-2006, 01:54 PM
I took it as "If they boo a member of the team, they'll boo anybody else."

Not necessarily as an ego thing.


I don't see it that way.
I think it is an ego thing.

PacerMan
03-18-2006, 01:55 PM
I wouldn't say I took it personally, I just find it ironic that he probably doesn't think he's earned any boo-ing.

agreed

denyfizle
03-18-2006, 01:58 PM
"If they'll boo me, they'll boo anybody."

I love his ego. Two of the darker spots in our recent franchise history get booed, and he's shocked.

'I couldn't have possibly, oh I don't know, done anything to earn it, could I? Nooooooo.'


my thoughts exactly. i've never heard Austin Croshere ever being booed. not even Jonathan Bender. get a clue Jack.

denyfizle
03-18-2006, 02:01 PM
I took it as "If they boo a member of the team, they'll boo anybody else."

Not necessarily as an ego thing.


yea, that's probably what Jack wanted to say, but with him furthuring his comments by saying if they boo him they can boo anyone it became an ego thing.

Hicks
03-18-2006, 02:03 PM
Exactly right that you don't hear Austin get booed. I don't think I heard Bender get booed. Or Reggie. Or Jeff. Or Dale.

denyfizle
03-18-2006, 02:20 PM
the fact that the Artest booing is even an issue is ridiculous; the fact that, that was all Indiana fans really did I think is commendable.

and besides, when i was waiting with some 70 other people to get RonRon's autographs during the shootarounds, there was a lot of "Warier, Warier!!!" chants and "We still love you Ron!!!" from the people. i don't think any other city would've done any less in terms of the booing and heckling. i can only imagine the animosity if Ron did what he did to us in Detroit or New York had he played for them. New York media may have branded him the devil a long time ago. so yea, no brainer RonRon. i don't remember a team being so devastated by a player's distracting antics for 2 back-to-back seasons. he definitely earned and deserved the negative energy directed towards him in Conseco last night.

Bball
03-18-2006, 03:05 PM
From what I can tell the discontent with Sjax' shot selection has been slowly growing over the season. It's not like game 1 and people were booing him. He slowly has lost the benefit of the doubt because he keeps falling into the pattern of swallowing the ball, being defended well, and finally taking a bad shot. Or he takes a quick shot at the most inopportune time and it's made even worse when he's in the middle of a slump yet has no pause about doing that.

I don't think the fans see Sjax as a shooter where they expect him to hit (like Reggie or now Peja).

Yet, Sjax has done nothing to change this all season long. Maybe he's doing what the coach wants many times. He seems not to have his minutes cut... or maybe he's too important in the bigger picture and Carlisle doesn't have a better option.

At the beginning of the year I don't remember much of anything when Sjax was taking bad shots. Then after several games and the pattern continued the fans started getting a little tired of it. You'd hear some "Pass the ball!" shouts while he was holding it and becoming predictable at that point (hold it, hold it, hold it, shoot....clank). And there would be groans when he missed.

Yet he's continued the same pattern....

And now those shouts while he holds the ball have grown louder and more people now groan when he misses a bad shot and some of those groans have turned to boos.

Couple that with the fact that Sjax carries the stigma of 11/19 with him (and IMHO some blame him a little too much) and for fan acceptance the bar is higher for him.

Al wasn't the most sharing guy with the ball either but you didn't hear the fans booing him when he missed.

JO carries the stigma too but he has either done more publically to help his image or the team has put him in a better position to have a spotlight shine on him showing him in a good light more often.

I look for the local media and the Pacers to do something soon to try and negate some of the booing and animosity toward Sjax. Be ready to read how Sjax had to walk 50 miles to school when he was younger and shot basketballs into a peach basket he hung on a light pole... and how he helps little old ladies across the street after games and helps drive children to school before practice. I'd seriously not be surprised to see a new Sjax charity drive of some type announced.

Of course he could just make smarter plays on the basketball court more often....

-Bball

heywoode
03-18-2006, 03:15 PM
One thing I was thinking about last night during the game. I wonder what his shooting percentage is when he makes a quick move/decision, either shoot, drive or pass, vs when he holds it, fakes, and then shoots. It seems to me that it is much better when he does something quick and decisive.

Maybe the coaching staff can put together some video and stats to show Jax, so he realizes he is better when he makes a quick decision.

You touch on an excellent point right here, my friend.

I have long thought that the level of communication between our coaching staff and our players has been horribly low. There's talking between the two entities going on, but only about 10% of what is orated is getting understood and assimilated, IMO.

Our coaching staff needs to do things specifically like you mentioned of putting a tape together that they can sit down with Jack and SHOW him what he is doing wrong. Now, this doesn't just include Jack, but he would be number one in the meeting room if I were coach. I think that constructive criticism needs to be as plain as possible to avoid any ego bruising that might take place. That is true for personal relationships at every level, and is only compounded by the fact that we are talking about a working relationship, a coach and a basketball star who makes his living trusting his instincts.

That is the kind of communication that needs to take place to bring about any change. I know they have walk-thru's and shoot-arounds and practices...I have never attended any of those at an NBA level, so I don't know what really goes on. Common sense would tell me that at that level of competition every POSSIBLE thing that has ever been thought of and proven to be effective even some of the time would be thrown at these guys to ultimately compete for a title. If they are doing those kinds of things and the players still aren't able to comprehend and modify their play, then my question is, "What DO they have to do to generate results?"

waxman
03-18-2006, 03:25 PM
One thing I was thinking about last night during the game. I wonder what his shooting percentage is when he makes a quick move/decision, either shoot, drive or pass, vs when he holds it, fakes, and then shoots. It seems to me that it is much better when he does something quick and decisive.

Maybe the coaching staff can put together some video and stats to show Jax, so he realizes he is better when he makes a quick decision.

UB...great observation.... you must've been reading my mind here.... I've been thinking about this very thing for weeks now. He's definately better when making the quick hitting play.

He's been taking it to the basket alot more lately, with varying degrees of success. I think he's been doing a better job of finding his teammates...and he certainly gets no love from the refs. I mean he gets hammered everytime he goes in there, and gets the foul called... maybe....a quarter of the time. When the superstars in this league would allllwwwways get that whistle.

Overall... i thought he had a decent game last night. He played good D... hit some timely shots....created some for his teammates...*****ed a little at the refs. I can live with that.

Roy Munson
03-18-2006, 03:31 PM
Our coaching staff needs to do things specifically like you mentioned of putting a tape together that they can sit down with Jack and SHOW him what he is doing wrong. Now, this doesn't just include Jack, but he would be number one in the meeting room if I were coach. I think that constructive criticism needs to be as plain as possible to avoid any ego bruising that might take place. That is true for personal relationships at every level, and is only compounded by the fact that we are talking about a working relationship, a coach and a basketball star who makes his living trusting his instincts.

That is the kind of communication that needs to take place to bring about any change. I know they have walk-thru's and shoot-arounds and practices...I have never attended any of those at an NBA level, so I don't know what really goes on. Common sense would tell me that at that level of competition every POSSIBLE thing that has ever been thought of and proven to be effective even some of the time would be thrown at these guys to ultimately compete for a title. If they are doing those kinds of things and the players still aren't able to comprehend and modify their play, then my question is, "What DO they have to do to generate results?"

Wow, I'll bet Pacer management has never though of any of this. Maybe someone ought to get on the phone and give Larry a call.

D-BONE
03-18-2006, 03:34 PM
Fans have a right to boo and Jack has a right to have his interpretation of those boos just as we analyze why he might have made the comment he did.

I may be way off on this, but in reading the two accounts of this comment (particularly in the article from SAC in UB's other thread), it bears noting the context in which this "quote" was shared.

This appears to have been something Jack shared privately and, I suspect, in confidence with Ron. Then, from what I can tell and please correct me if I'm wrong, sounds like the "quote" was communicated to the press by Ron.

If that's true, it's unfortunate this got out. He's basically trying to be supportive of a friend and not overtly trying to make an issue or cause friction with the fans. Of course, there's also that saying about chosing friends wisely.

heywoode
03-18-2006, 03:44 PM
Wow, I'll bet Pacer management has never though of any of this. Maybe someone ought to get on the phone and give Larry a call.

Wow, maybe sometime you will have something intelligent to contribute to a conversation.

Maybe.

D-BONE
03-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Hey, heywoode. Where's your avatar from/What is it? I like.

Diamond Dave
03-18-2006, 03:51 PM
Have another glass of milk.


Wow, I'll bet Pacer management has never though of any of this. Maybe someone ought to get on the phone and give Larry a call.


Troll.

I even disagree with what UB said, but regardless.

Troll

waxman
03-18-2006, 04:00 PM
This appears to have been something Jack shared privately and, I suspect, in confidence with Ron. Then, from what I can tell and please correct me if I'm wrong, sounds like the "quote" was communicated to the press by Ron.

If that's true, it's unfortunate this got out. He's basically trying to be supportive of a friend and not overtly trying to make an issue or cause friction with the fans. Of course, there's also that saying about chosing friends wisely.


Actually Stephen said it in a post game interview before even leaving the court.... I was watching NBATV coverage at time and heard him say it... and got a chuckle out of it.

He deserved some cheers tonight though.

D-BONE
03-18-2006, 04:13 PM
Actually Stephen said it in a post game interview before even leaving the court.... I was watching NBATV coverage at time and heard him say it... and got a chuckle out of it.

He deserved some cheers tonight though.

Good enough for me, Waxman. Too bad he didn't edit that part out though.

On the other hand, still trying to be supportive of his friend. Can't criticize him for his loyalty at least.

Hope his game last night is a sign of a good streak upcoming. Still seems to me like his shot selection in the latter stages was much better than usual. Not necessarily saying it was due to his own doing, but a good thing whatever the case.

ChicagoJ
03-18-2006, 04:28 PM
If you don't like SJax's shot selection and turnover propensity, or his ability to get distracted by the refs or get into sideline tiffs with his teammates, then why shouldn't you boo?

He's earned the boos progressively over the course of the season - especially to those of us that witnessed his antics at the Atlanta game the night after Thanksgiving.

If he wants the boos to stop, I'd suggest he stop playing like a selfish, bad-shooting, turnover prone dumbass in front of a bunch of basketball-savvy fans.

waxman
03-18-2006, 04:32 PM
Stephen needs to let the game come to him a bit....when he presses he gets too tense and his game suffers. I don't think the treatment he gets from the fans is helping matters... in this regard. If he could take the good things from the second half and bottle it up... that is his role. Understated, timely, tough. that was more of his game in San Antonio.

That turnover and fastbreak dunk with Tinsley late....was how to run a break... the ball never even touched the ground. Why can't we do more of this?

heywoode
03-18-2006, 04:57 PM
If you don't like SJax's shot selection and turnover propensity, or his ability to get distracted by the refs or get into sideline tiffs with his teammates, then why shouldn't you boo?

He's earned the boos progressively over the course of the season - especially to those of us that witnessed his antics at the Atlanta game the night after Thanksgiving.

If he wants the boos to stop, I'd suggest he stop playing like a selfish, bad-shooting, turnover prone dumbass in front of a bunch of basketball-savvy fans.

WORD.

Pacers#1Fan
03-18-2006, 05:04 PM
Ron is so conceited

Bball
03-18-2006, 06:13 PM
If you don't like SJax's shot selection and turnover propensity, or his ability to get distracted by the refs or get into sideline tiffs with his teammates, then why shouldn't you boo?

He's earned the boos progressively over the course of the season - especially to those of us that witnessed his antics at the Atlanta game the night after Thanksgiving.

If he wants the boos to stop, I'd suggest he stop playing like a selfish, bad-shooting, turnover prone dumbass in front of a bunch of basketball-savvy fans.

That's why I was trying to say... but you went to the heart of it. ;)

-Bball

BlueNGold
03-18-2006, 09:05 PM
If you don't like SJax's shot selection and turnover propensity, or his ability to get distracted by the refs or get into sideline tiffs with his teammates, then why shouldn't you boo?

He's earned the boos progressively over the course of the season - especially to those of us that witnessed his antics at the Atlanta game the night after Thanksgiving.

If he wants the boos to stop, I'd suggest he stop playing like a selfish, bad-shooting, turnover prone dumbass in front of a bunch of basketball-savvy fans.

Very well said. Now, he is a valuable commodity from a talent standpoint....but he seems to be detrimental to team chemistry....and like you say, does not play smart at times.

I think we need to package him and another quality player to upgrade the SG position...or give Freddie the starting nod and get a quality backup like Pietrus to handle bigger guards. Hopefully that happens this summer.

PacerMan
03-18-2006, 10:56 PM
You touch on an excellent point right here, my friend.

I have long thought that the level of communication between our coaching staff and our players has been horribly low. There's talking between the two entities going on, but only about 10% of what is orated is getting understood and assimilated, IMO.

Our coaching staff needs to do things specifically like you mentioned of putting a tape together that they can sit down with Jack and SHOW him what he is doing wrong. Now, this doesn't just include Jack, but he would be number one in the meeting room if I were coach. I think that constructive criticism needs to be as plain as possible to avoid any ego bruising that might take place. That is true for personal relationships at every level, and is only compounded by the fact that we are talking about a working relationship, a coach and a basketball star who makes his living trusting his instincts.

That is the kind of communication that needs to take place to bring about any change. I know they have walk-thru's and shoot-arounds and practices...I have never attended any of those at an NBA level, so I don't know what really goes on. Common sense would tell me that at that level of competition every POSSIBLE thing that has ever been thought of and proven to be effective even some of the time would be thrown at these guys to ultimately compete for a title. If they are doing those kinds of things and the players still aren't able to comprehend and modify their play, then my question is, "What DO they have to do to generate results?"


It's not like that's new news. Or even specific to Jax. ANY player that holds the ball, thinks about it, thinks some more, shoots, is going to miss it a LOT more than make it. A shooting stroke is all about rythym. More so for some than others, but important to all. When it's all reflex and muscle memory, it's easy. Start to THINK about it, and you've got a problem
That's high school stuff.

heywoode
03-19-2006, 12:19 PM
It's not like that's new news. Or even specific to Jax. ANY player that holds the ball, thinks about it, thinks some more, shoots, is going to miss it a LOT more than make it. A shooting stroke is all about rythym. More so for some than others, but important to all. When it's all reflex and muscle memory, it's easy. Start to THINK about it, and you've got a problem
That's high school stuff.
My original post contains this sentence:

"Common sense would tell me that at that level of competition every POSSIBLE thing that has ever been thought of and proven to be effective even some of the time would be thrown at these guys to ultimately compete for a title."

The only thing I was saying (or poorly attempting to say) was that if Jack KEEPS DOING IT, then one of two things are happening:

1) They HAVE taken the time to tell him, put a tape together and shown him, and worked on it in practice or shootaround.

2) They HAVE NOT done those things.

Either way, something is wrong. He is not listening, or they are not talking. My guess is that he is not listening.

Now I remember why I don't post very often. Sometimes it is just too difficult to make a point. I'll leave it to the people who write for a living....

heywoode
03-19-2006, 12:24 PM
Hey, heywoode. Where's your avatar from/What is it? I like.

I think I google'd 'cool avatars' and found a site with some weird pictures done by some guy...There were a few there that I liked, but the one I use seemed like the best one...

Sorry to not be more specific than that! I'll try to figure it out for you...

FireTheCoach
03-19-2006, 12:33 PM
If you don't like SJax's shot selection and turnover propensity, or his ability to get distracted by the refs or get into sideline tiffs with his teammates, then why shouldn't you boo?

He's earned the boos progressively over the course of the season - especially to those of us that witnessed his antics at the Atlanta game the night after Thanksgiving.

If he wants the boos to stop, I'd suggest he stop playing like a selfish, bad-shooting, turnover prone dumbass in front of a bunch of basketball-savvy fans.


Post of the Year candidate there!!!!

Yeah, SJax has earned every boo he gets.

BigMac
03-19-2006, 12:37 PM
I'm getting a little sick and tired of everyone booing and criticizing Jax. I'm not really talking about in this forum, but the general public. Yes I realize there are things he does that drive us all to drink, there are times when I want him sent to the locker room. But he is a talented player, and there are times when he's out of the game that the team does suffer. He does provide a certain energy and his defense while inconsistant is IMO underrated and often very much needed.

The fact is the team needs Jax right now. They aren't as good without him.

One thing I was thinking about last night during the game. I wonder what his shooting percentage is when he makes a quick move/decision, either shoot, drive or pass, vs when he holds it, fakes, and then shoots. It seems to me that it is much better when he does something quick and decisive.

Maybe the coaching staff can put together some video and stats to show Jax, so he realizes he is better when he makes a quick decision.


Great post. The only thing that best explains my feeling is that I'm one of the people that cannot stand Jax. And the reason that I think that it is a great post is that I totally disagree with almost everything you wrote. Which is what this forum is supposed to be about. I always appreciate your viewpoint, UncleBuck, but I definitely disagree with you on your positive points on Jax.

And if the coaching staff has not put something together for him to see about the quick decision thing (assuming that it helps) they should all be fired-which I do not want.

He (Jax) always wants to take the big final perimeter shot but he never hits it. The Philly game was a layup-and he misses more layups in the course of a game than any other Pacers player I have ever watched. He is not a crunch time player. And he is not a good shooter. And I believe that a good shooter should keep shooting when he's not on but he, IMO, is not a good shooter but he just keeps shooting-a lot of times taking the Pacers out of a game. And the brawl thing doesn't help his case much-something that will only escape him at all when he leaves the Pacers.

And yes, I know he hit some big shots in the NBA Finals for the Spurs but I totally disagree with his worth on this team. Trouble is that no other team (except maybe Cleveland) would want him and we never trade within our own conference, let alone division.

Hicks
03-19-2006, 01:26 PM
Of course we trade within our own conference and division. We got Brad and Artest from Chicago. We got Stephen Jackson from Atlanta (which at that time was in our division).

ajbry
03-19-2006, 02:12 PM
I'm getting a little sick and tired of everyone booing and criticizing Jax. I'm not really talking about in this forum, but the general public. Yes I realize there are things he does that drive us all to drink, there are times when I want him sent to the locker room. But he is a talented player, and there are times when he's out of the game that the team does suffer. He does provide a certain energy and his defense while inconsistant is IMO underrated and often very much needed.

The fact is the team needs Jax right now. They aren't as good without him.

One thing I was thinking about last night during the game. I wonder what his shooting percentage is when he makes a quick move/decision, either shoot, drive or pass, vs when he holds it, fakes, and then shoots. It seems to me that it is much better when he does something quick and decisive.

Maybe the coaching staff can put together some video and stats to show Jax, so he realizes he is better when he makes a quick decision.

Excellent post. I love Jack's game, as odd as that seems, and he really has been a solid player for us. I never question his antics because he's an emotional guy and really cares about the game, even if his play doesn't dictate that message all the time (I can understand if people get frustrated with his style of play, but you shouldn't boo him for it).

I know I'm getting pretty sick of constantly advocating on Jack's behalf, so it's good to see someone else feel the same way.

McKeyFan
03-19-2006, 02:45 PM
One of the very difficult things about being a fan of an NBA team for over a decade is seeing things that are so obvious but are not corrected.

One of those is Jax getting so many minutes and allowed to take so many shots, despite poor, selfish play and a horrible, franchise-embarrassing attitude.

I hearken back to Saras comment that he was surprised by how much of a business the NBA is. The only way I can figure that Jax gets no punishment (benchtime) is that they couldn't find a decent trade at the deadline and they can't kill his trade value before summer.

My only other option is that we have classless morons running the team, and I really have a hard time believing that.

able
03-19-2006, 02:58 PM
Strange no one mentiones the pre game clips of Jax on Ron and the comments in an article aobu tRon being booed, see another thread in the forum, but looks at his supposed good play.

Jax takes to many shots out of the offense to be even considered a good player. Let alone that his shooting is good, because it isn't, 23% from 3pt land should suffice to tell you not to do it anymore, yet he happily hoists up some more.

However, considering the two things mentioned in the beginning of my post one can see an entirely different and far bigger problem.

Jax' homey is gone, his "best firend" nonetheless, and not only that, he gets the boos his buddy gets as well.

Jax is not looking for the fault within him, as a reason for the boos, no the fault is with the fans!
He's to "hood" for this crowd, to "heavy" for this team, to "good" as well.

The remarks he made tell me only one thing and that is that Jax is history and if we had enough bodies to make it work completely without him, he would've been gone already.

I never have been a fan of Jax, and thought we paid to much to get him, but he has no oifficially outlasted his welcome, by Jax, don't let the door etc......

able
03-19-2006, 04:04 PM
does it sound so funny that indeed no one wanted to trade for him?? would you ?

McKeyFan
03-20-2006, 12:26 PM
More than one commentator, including ESPN's and TNT's, have made disparaging comments of Jax. I think the GM's know he's a poison pill.

D-BONE
03-20-2006, 01:27 PM
Look, everybody. I am a semi-defender of Jack. I try to recognize that he does have some positives, but I do not deny he presents numerous negative consequences, as well. And I've said many a time that I'd have no trouble if they traded him whatsoever.

What bothers me at times is that he is an easy scapegoat or outlet for tension that really is deserved by the entire team. People are frustrated over the team's performance and Jack is the easy one to really criticize. If we were winning, there would be much more positive reflection on him, just as with anyone else.

Questions: What is really the problem here? Certainly, Jack has some role in it, but it's got to be deeper than that. Why did we ever trade for him in the first place if he's really as bad as everyone says? What could they have been thinking? Was this all Mike Brown motivated?

I never bought into the idea that he would be Reggie's replacement in many obvious ways (not nearly as clutch, not at all a shooter, etc.). On the other hand, I did think he could contribute in a limited way (3rd offensive option, defense, championship experience). Having a player that doesn't fit in perfectly has been "managed" or "overcome" to the extent necessary to add to a highly successful team. It could be said that it's just one other problem in a plethora of issues that this group has with team dynamics.

PacerMan
03-20-2006, 01:35 PM
My original post contains this sentence:

"Common sense would tell me that at that level of competition every POSSIBLE thing that has ever been thought of and proven to be effective even some of the time would be thrown at these guys to ultimately compete for a title."

The only thing I was saying (or poorly attempting to say) was that if Jack KEEPS DOING IT, then one of two things are happening:

1) They HAVE taken the time to tell him, put a tape together and shown him, and worked on it in practice or shootaround.

2) They HAVE NOT done those things.

Either way, something is wrong. He is not listening, or they are not talking. My guess is that he is not listening.

Now I remember why I don't post very often. Sometimes it is just too difficult to make a point. I'll leave it to the people who write for a living....


Naw, you did fine. I just missed that. :))

PacerMan
03-20-2006, 01:36 PM
I think I google'd 'cool avatars' and found a site with some weird pictures done by some guy...There were a few there that I liked, but the one I use seemed like the best one...

Sorry to not be more specific than that! I'll try to figure it out for you...

That actually freaks me out!

PacerMan
03-20-2006, 01:39 PM
Jax is not the evil incarnate. He's just not a 1st or 2nd option at THIS level. IF he can accept his role AFTER Jermaine, and Peja, and eventually Danny, then I'm happy to have him on the team. He's a VERY good 4th option. :)

RWB
03-20-2006, 03:07 PM
What I don't understand is how Jack can hear the boos with the loud clanging coming off the rim after another missed jump shot or blown layup. :D

Must be when he is on defense. No that couldn't be since he's talking to the ref and wouldn't hear anything at that time either.

OnlyPacersLeft
03-20-2006, 05:43 PM
Jack made a game winner this yr vs philly...but man has he messed up A LOT of games...so no surprise he gets booed. People get sick of it...I like jack personally.