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Jermaniac
03-13-2006, 10:22 PM
Tinsley is amazing that is all. And how nice was it too see Stephen Jackson sit out most of the 4th and not chuck up 25 shots in 6 minutes. Very good home win.

Ragnar
03-13-2006, 10:31 PM
We won this because Rick was smart enough to play Tins at the end.

And another thing I have been saying over and over again AJ is a good backup sg. Move him to the bakcup sg and let Sarunas be the backup pg.

What was with putting Gill in at the end for the free throws and not Sarunas?

Jermaniac
03-13-2006, 10:32 PM
That was a big difference from past 4th qtrs this week, Tinsley played the point and we won. See how easy it is Rick.

About Sarunas not going in at the end maybe he said he didnt want to play? Who knows

Moses
03-13-2006, 10:34 PM
We need to have AJ backing up Jax at SG and Runi backing Tins up at PG. AJ can create his own shot and is a pretty good shooter.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 10:36 PM
I'm really surprised that Coach Carlisle held Sarunas out of the game after all the effort Sarunas has given this year. It wasn't even 2 weeks ago when the rookie got 11 assists and 14 pts on 5 of 8 shooting against Washington (tie series 2-2). He also played 49 + minutes that game. By holding Sarunas out of the game tonight snapped his games played mark at 60.

Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:36 PM
What was with putting Gill in at the end for the free throws and not Sarunas?
Well, we're going to hear about it tomorrow from our European friends.

If I had to guess, I'd say Rick didn't want to play Saras in garbage minutes. I doubt Saras is thanking him, though.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:37 PM
Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!
Go away.

rabid
03-13-2006, 10:38 PM
I'm really surprised that Coach Carlisle held Sarunas out of the game after all the effort Sarunas has given this year. It wasn't even 2 weeks ago when the rookie got 11 assists and 14 pts on 5 of 8 shooting against Washington (tie series 2-2). He also played 49 + minutes that game. By holding Sarunas out of the game tonight snapped his games played mark at 60.

Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!

Sarunas is good... but every player ahead of him in the rotation is BETTER. What is it about this that is so hard to understand?

Ragnar
03-13-2006, 10:38 PM
I'm really surprised that Coach Carlisle held Sarunas out of the game after all the effort Sarunas has given this year. It wasn't even 2 weeks ago when the rookie got 11 assists and 14 pts on 5 of 8 shooting against Washington (tie series 2-2). He also played 49 + minutes that game. By holding Sarunas out of the game tonight snapped his games played mark at 60.

Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!

This is how Rick treats pass first pg's.

Jermaniac
03-13-2006, 10:39 PM
Like Rabid said Where is the guy supposed to play? Tins is better, AJ, Fred,Jack. There just isnt enough minutes for 3 PG's right now.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 10:40 PM
Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!

:laugh:

Dude...welcome to the NBA. There isnt room in a rotation for 3 PGs.

It was AJ or SArunas for backup, and AJ won. And right now, I'm not even sure Rick made the wrong choice. AJ has arguably had a better year, his last-second screwups nonwithstanding.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:40 PM
Sarunas is good... but every player ahead of him in the rotation is BETTER. What is it about this that is so hard to understand?
Well, not Gill...

Of course, Gill only played about 45 seconds.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 10:42 PM
Well, not Gill...

Of course, Gill only played about 45 seconds.


I think that was not to offend Sarunas by making him look like a garbage player.

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 10:42 PM
Tins did do well. However, Granger and Harrison were the difference makers in this game IMO.

Jermaniac
03-13-2006, 10:43 PM
With out Hulk's scoring in the 4th this would have been a HARD game to win.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:44 PM
I think that was not to offend Sarunas by making him look like a garbage player.
I already said that. :flirt:

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 10:44 PM
Like Rabid said Where is the guy supposed to play? Tins is better, AJ, Fred,Jack. There just isnt enough minutes for 3 PG's right now.

The idea is to get him in the game, even if it was just to keep his streak alive. The rookie has played his heart out this year and has stayed healthy enough to play every game which is more than several Pacers. Bringing Gill in the game in Sarunas place was a slap in the face to Sarunas, and whether he's been cold or not makes no difference, he's been there when the Pacers needed him, and that should be good for something!

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 10:45 PM
Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!
Wow.:shakehead

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:45 PM
Tins did do well. However, Granger and Harrison were the difference makers in this game IMO.
Just imagine them as next year's starters, with KG in between them.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 10:46 PM
The idea is to get him in the game, even if it was just to keep his streak alive.


Streak? What streak?

You honestly think Carlisle knew or cared about a guy playing in every game for the season? I doubt the thought ever crossed his mind.

You think Sarunas would have jumper for joy over those last 40 seconds?

WInning matters in the NBA, not maintaining personal streaks.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 10:46 PM
Sarunas is good... but every player ahead of him in the rotation is BETTER. What is it about this that is so hard to understand?

Don't you find it odd then that Sarunas is atop the +/- chart?

Jermaniac
03-13-2006, 10:47 PM
Just imagine them as next year's starters, with KG in between them.They are going to the T'Wolves? Cause thats the only way they get to play with KG.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:47 PM
The idea is to get him in the game, even if it was just to keep his streak alive. The rookie has played his heart out this year and has stayed healthy enough to play every game which is more than several Pacers. Bringing Gill in the game in Sarunas place was a slap in the face to Sarunas, and whether he's been cold or not makes no difference, he's been there when the Pacers needed him, and that should be good for something!
I'm willing to bet his streak means more to you than to him.

Everybody else gets it. Bringing Gill was a sign of respect.

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 10:48 PM
Those +/- stat things are a little misleading, dont you think?

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 10:49 PM
Just imagine them as next year's starters, with KG in between them.

I'm down with that. And not in Minny, Jermaniac.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:50 PM
Don't you find it odd then that Sarunas is atop the +/- chart?
Seriously, man, the act gets old.

We just got a good win. I don't want to talk about a guy that didn't even play.

rabid
03-13-2006, 10:51 PM
Don't you find it odd then that Sarunas is atop the +/- chart?

Look, I actually COMPILED the +/- chart for the Fever website last summer when i interned with the Pacers. I know my stats.

I don't have time to go into the whole spiel right now, but individual +/- stats by themselves don't say much.

I LIKE Saras. I like watching the guy play - he is exciting and, yes, he is highly skilled in some ways. But on this team he's the 3rd string point guard. AJ and Tins are simply playing better than he is right now, period - and Saras hasn't fared well as a backup 2 (in fact he's said publicly he doesn't want to play that position).

So what do you do? Sit AJ? Sit Tins? No. It's an unfortunate situation for Saras, that's for sure, and the guy deserves to get NBA minutes. But I'm afraid that, when everyone is healthy, there isn't really much room for him on this roster (unless AJ plays backup 2).

Kstat
03-13-2006, 10:53 PM
Sarunas knew that coming in. He knew he had to outplay a legit NBA player to get minutes, and he's 0-2 right now.

Hard to feel sorry for a guy who passed up easy street in Cleveland.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 10:54 PM
Look, if our European friends really want to talk about Saras, could that discussion at least move to its own thread? The post-game thread should be about the players that actually played.

hoopsforlife
03-13-2006, 10:55 PM
I'm really surprised that Coach Carlisle held Sarunas out of the game after all the effort Sarunas has given this year. It wasn't even 2 weeks ago when the rookie got 11 assists and 14 pts on 5 of 8 shooting against Washington (tie series 2-2). He also played 49 + minutes that game. By holding Sarunas out of the game tonight snapped his games played mark at 60.

Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!

In my mind they have lost alot more than Reggie Miller over the last year too. I just don't feel the same about this franchise that I have in the past.

I think I'm going to take a break from them for a while and see if it helps. The NCAA is starting and I am going to watch that. Real team play and players who really care if they win or not. The games really mean something.

I will watch Ron and the Kings play Friday night and give it a rest.

Roaming Gnome
03-13-2006, 10:56 PM
Sarunas knew that coming in. He knew he had to outplay a legit NBA player to get minutes, and he's 0-2 right now.

Hard to feel sorry for a guy who passed up easy street in Cleveland.

That my friend is the bottom line...He knew comming in that nothing would be gift wrapped.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 10:59 PM
Look, I actually COMPILED the +/- chart for the Fever website last summer when i interned with the Pacers. I know my stats.

I don't have time to go into the whole spiel right now, but individual +/- stats by themselves don't say much.

Thanks for the background information, I can respect that if your background is in stats, then you'll have no problem with this one:

E. Gill - Min, 00:54, 0-0, 2-2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2

I rest my case!

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:00 PM
Everyone here has already explained the Eddie Gill thing to you.

It's really not even that big a deal for a player to play 60 straight games. It's not as if he was even remotely close to any record....

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:02 PM
Thanks for the background information, I can respect that if your background is in stats, then you'll have no problem with this one:

E. Gill - Min, 00:54, 0-0, 2-2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2

I rest my case!
Seriously, man, start your own thread. You're not convincing anyone, you're just being annoying.

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 11:05 PM
OK, enough Saras for the time being. Now, how can we get Granger this involved offensively more often? We've still got a kind of logjam at F and of course plenty of other guys above him in the opportunity hierarchy. It appeared his matchups were favorable so maybe it won't always be that easy, but you know he'll rebound consistently and his shot continues to impress. Give him more of a green light at least out to 18 feet.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 11:12 PM
OK, enough Saras for the time being. Now, how can we get Granger this involved offensively more often? We've still got a kind of logjam at F and of course plenty of other guys above him in the opportunity hierarchy. It appeared his matchups were favorable so maybe it won't always be that easy, but you know he'll rebound consistently and his shot continues to impress. Give him more of a green light at least out to 18 feet.

I think the logjam and unproductivity at various positions has everything to do with how players rotate in and out. IMO, you wouldn't notice alot of things as much if RC had a better handle on how he substitutes players in and out, and also when to ride the hot hands of the players who have it going. Jermaniac hit the mark yesterday when he talked about riding the hot hand. Carlisle just doesn't get into the rhythm of the game and is too busy worried about how things are on paper. He's a manager not a leader.

JMO.

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 11:12 PM
I just hope that Rick will expirement with a O'Neal/Granger/Peja lineup. That should be pretty intresting to see.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:13 PM
I just hope that Rick will expirement with a O'Neal/Granger/Peja lineup. That should be pretty intresting to see.
Against Philly? Absolutely.

Against Miami? :puke:

Kegboy
03-13-2006, 11:14 PM
By holding Sarunas out of the game tonight snapped his games played mark at 60.

:sadyes: And to think, he was only 281 games behind MoPete. :cry:

Unclebuck
03-13-2006, 11:16 PM
Saras simply is not as good as AJ or Tinsley. And I want Fred to get 25 minutes, so he gets all the backup shooting guard minutes, so Saras will sit for awhile. That is life.

Pacers starters were out of gas tonight, it was up to the bench tonight.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:16 PM
:sadyes: And to think, he was only 281 games behind MoPete. :cry:

..and only 1,132 games behind AC Green.. :cry:

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 11:21 PM
Against Philly? Absolutely.

Against Miami? :puke:

Peja doesnt have to guard Wade. He could play SG on offense while Granger can play SG on defense. Come on, thats realistically possible.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 11:22 PM
:sadyes: And to think, he was only 281 games behind MoPete. :cry:

yeah, and 50+ ahead of E. Gill! :thankyou:

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:24 PM
Peja doesnt have to guard Wade. He could play SG on offense while Granger can play SG on defense. Come on, thats realistically possible.

...and there's the little matter of Jermaine Oneal guarding Shaq.....

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 11:24 PM
Saras simply is not as good as AJ or Tinsley. And I want Fred to get 25 minutes, so he gets all the backup shooting guard minutes, so Saras will sit for awhile. That is life.

Pacers starters were out of gas tonight, it was up to the bench tonight.

Saras sitting isn't the point! The point is why bring Eddie Gill in the game with 54 seconds left when Eddie has done next to nothing to help this team this year and just two weeks ago Sarunas started in place of a sick Anthony Johnson, and an injured Jamaal Tinsley.

Hello!!!! Should I draw a picture in the dirt for some of you people or what? :jump:

Shade
03-13-2006, 11:26 PM
Saras sitting isn't the point! The point is why bring Eddie Gill in the game with 54 seconds left when Eddie has done next to nothing to help this team this year and just two weeks ago Sarunas started in place of a sick Anthony Johnson, and an injured Jamaal Tinsley.

Hello!!!! Should I draw a picture in the dirt for some of you people or what? :jump:

I started a thread for 'ya. Have fun.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19932

Shade
03-13-2006, 11:27 PM
...and there's the little matter of Jermaine Oneal guarding Shaq.....

Wouldn't Pollard/Hulk be on Shaq?

Unclebuck
03-13-2006, 11:27 PM
Saras sitting isn't the point! The point is why bring Eddie Gill in the game with 54 seconds left when Eddie has done next to nothing to help this team this year and just two weeks ago Sarunas started in place of a sick Anthony Johnson, and an injured Jamaal Tinsley.

Hello!!!! Should I draw a picture in the dirt for some of you people or what? :jump:


Yeh, I always like a good dirty picture. Wait, that's not really what I mean.

It is customary for coaches not to put veterans into a game at garbage time. yes Saras is a rookie, but why bring him in, let Gill play

Shade
03-13-2006, 11:28 PM
Yeh, I always like a good dirty picture. Wait, that's not really what I mean.

It is customary for coaches not to put veterans into a game at garbage time. yes Saras is a rookie, but why bring him in, let Gill play

What if Runi had come in and gotten hurt in garbage time?

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:29 PM
Wouldn't Pollard/Hulk be on Shaq?

I'm assuming JO, Granger and Peja were the 3-4-5 in that proposed lineup.

Of course, if Granger and Peja are 2-3, good luck with either of them dealing with Wade.

Pacersfan.
03-13-2006, 11:30 PM
Have the Hulk and Shaq ever played against each other? It seems like one or the other is always out when we play them.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:31 PM
Peja doesnt have to guard Wade. He could play SG on offense while Granger can play SG on defense. Come on, thats realistically possible.
Wait, what? You said O'Neal/Granger/Peja. You want our PF guarding the opposing SG?

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 11:31 PM
3-4-5, 2-3-4, either way.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:31 PM
Have the Hulk and Shaq ever played against each other? It seems like one or the other is always out when we play them.
Once, yeah. Hulk did well but picked up too many fouls. Of course, everybody does that.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 11:32 PM
What if Runi had come in and gotten hurt in garbage time?

Then he would have been legitimately injured when his successive games played streak was snapped.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:32 PM
Then he would have been legitimately injured when his successive games played streak was snapped.
Would it kill you to post this in the other thread?

Unclebuck
03-13-2006, 11:33 PM
Just checking the box score. Tinsley takes 11 shots plus 6 free throws in 23 minutes. Is that too many. Didn't seem like it as I was watching the game

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 11:33 PM
Wait, what? You said O'Neal/Granger/Peja. You want our PF guarding the opposing SG?

I dont think I made myself clear.

The lineup I would like to see is Pollard/O'Neal/Granger/Peja/Tinsley

Peja could play SG on offense, while Granger plays SG on defense. Thats what I was talking about.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Then he would have been legitimately injured when his successive games played streak was snapped.

This has already become the most talked-about 60 game streak in NBA history, and the streak only ended an hour ago.

I don't even think this qualifies as a "streak." It's like stringing 10 FTs together.

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Wouldn't Pollard/Hulk be on Shaq?

Pollard, when healthy, is a Shaq-D specialist for us. He is about as good on the Diesel as nearly anyone else. No way either Peja or Granger can guard Wade. Maybe when hell freezes over. Of course, can anybody we have really guard him? Guy's unbelievable.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:35 PM
I dont think I made myself clear.

The lineup I would like to see is Pollard/O'Neal/Granger/Peja/Tinsley

Peja could play SG on offense, while Granger plays SG on defense. Thats what I was talking about.
Oh, sorry. I thought you meant JO/Granger/Peja/Jack/Tinsley. I was saying we could do that against a lot of teams, but Miami would kill us.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:37 PM
Oh, sorry. I thought you meant JO/Granger/Peja/Jack/Tinsley. I was saying we could do that against a lot of teams, but Miami would kill us.

Yeah but in that lineup Wade has a field day with Peja or Granger. Neither of them are fit to guard SGs of his calibur.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:37 PM
I don't even think this qualifies as a "streak." It's like stringing 10 FTs together.
Hey, if David Harrison ever hits 10 straight FTs, you can bet I'll be talking about it.

SoupIsGood
03-13-2006, 11:39 PM
Just imagine them as next year's starters, with KG in between them.


NOT GOING TO HAPPEN DUDE!!!!!!!



Sorry, been botherin me fer awhile

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:39 PM
Yeah but in that lineup Wade has a field day with Peja or Granger. Neither of them are fit to guard SGs of his calibur.
In that lineup, Granger is a PF. He wouldn't be guarding Wade, Jack would.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:39 PM
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN DUDE!!!!!!!

Sorry, been botherin me fer awhile
:laugh: Yeah, I have been kinda fixated on that, haven't I?

Ok, I'm done. Sorry.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:40 PM
In that lineup, Granger is a PF. He wouldn't be guarding Wade, Jack would.


I dont think I made myself clear.

The lineup I would like to see is Pollard/O'Neal/Granger/Peja/Tinsley

where in that lineup is Jax?

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 11:41 PM
where in that lineup is Jax?

Jackson would come off the bench.

molten
03-13-2006, 11:41 PM
It's very simple - if you want the Pacers to achieve anything more than just be mediocre, play Saras (and I mean PLAY him, so he and the team can find the rythm and style that are horribly lacking with either AJ or JT).

If not, I say sit him all the way. This exponentially increases the chances of him playing in the Worlds and handing over someone's behinds in a nice 1/8 or 1/4 exit present. Certain outspoken members of this board know it all too well...

Shade
03-13-2006, 11:42 PM
where in that lineup is Jax?

With another team...?

Unclebuck
03-13-2006, 11:44 PM
Anyone else just hear what Rick just said in his post game press conference. He was talking about how he wanted to make sure they stayed out of holding the ball and out of Iso situations.


"it's clear Tinsley is a difference maker out there"

Evan_The_Dude
03-13-2006, 11:46 PM
It's very simple - if you want the Pacers to achieve anything more than just be mediocre, play Saras (and I mean PLAY him, so he and the team can find the rythm and style that are horribly lacking with either AJ or JT).


Are you serious? JT and AJ are outplaying Sarunas in the minutes they are given. Sarunas has done nothing but show he can only play one position. He's giving us no versatility whatsoever, but when we're in a playoff race we should PLAY HIM?

SoupIsGood
03-13-2006, 11:46 PM
Have the Hulk and Shaq ever played against each other? It seems like one or the other is always out when we play them.

Yes. David got burned bad when he tried to front Shaq, but fared anywhere from decently to pretty well afterwards. One of the few guys Shaq couldn't just cast aside with his pinky.

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:47 PM
It's very simple - if you want the Pacers to achieve anything more than just be mediocre, play Saras (and I mean PLAY him, so he and the team can find the rythm and style that are horribly lacking with either AJ or JT).

If not, I say sit him all the way. This exponentially increases the chances of him playing in the Worlds and handing over someone's behinds in a nice 1/8 or 1/4 exit present. Certain outspoken members of this board know it all too well...
Put this in another thread.

Evan_The_Dude
03-13-2006, 11:47 PM
Anyone else just hear what Rick just said in his post game press conference. He was talking about how he wanted to make sure they stayed out of holding the ball and out of Iso situations.


"it's clear Tinsley is a difference maker out there"

Either Rick saw that himself, or Rick reads PD.

Jermaniac
03-13-2006, 11:47 PM
Anyone else just hear what Rick just said in his post game press conference. He was talking about how he wanted to make sure they stayed out of holding the ball and out of Iso situations.


"it's clear Tinsley is a difference maker out there"Its no suprise that we finished off strong with Tins in there in the 4th.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 11:47 PM
It's very simple - if you want the Pacers to achieve anything more than just be mediocre, play Saras (and I mean PLAY him, so he and the team can find the rythm and style that are horribly lacking with either AJ or JT).

If not, I say sit him all the way. This exponentially increases the chances of him playing in the Worlds and handing over someone's behinds in a nice 1/8 or 1/4 exit present. Certain outspoken members of this board know it all too well...

What are you trying to do throw these guys into convulsions? ;) :grinno:

Anthem
03-13-2006, 11:54 PM
where in that lineup is Jax?
Ok, now I think you're doing it on purpose. Either that, or you're not reading the posts.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 11:57 PM
Ok, 2 possible lineups involving Peja/Granger/JO:

Tinsley, Jackson, Peja, Granger, JO

or

Tinsley, Peja, Granger, JO, Pollard

In one lineup, Jo gets stuck on Shaq. In the other, Granger gets stuck on Wade.

Both are huge matchup problems.

D-BONE
03-14-2006, 12:00 AM
Makes no difference what lineup you put on the floor. In fact, makes little difference what team puts what lineup on the floor. Shaq and Wade will usually create mismatches.

Fireball Kid
03-14-2006, 12:04 AM
Ok, 2 possible lineups involving Peja/Granger/JO:

Tinsley, Jackson, Peja, Granger, JO

or

Tinsley, Peja, Granger, JO, Pollard

In one lineup, Jo gets stuck on Shaq. In the other, Granger gets stuck on Wade.

Both are huge matchup problems.

Hey, I didnt say these lineups are long term solutions. I'm just saying we should try and expirement with JO/Peja/Granger in the lineup at the sametime, thats all.

Fireball Kid
03-14-2006, 12:05 AM
Makes no difference what lineup you put on the floor. In fact, makes little difference what team puts what lineup on the floor. Shaq and Wade will usually create mismatches.

Exactly.

Anthem
03-14-2006, 12:08 AM
In one lineup, Jo gets stuck on Shaq. In the other, Granger gets stuck on Wade.

Both are huge matchup problems.
Oh, agreed. But with Miami playing Shaq/Zo together more, there's a real chance that Granger would get stuck on Zo. Which means yet another matchup problem.

I guess I just don't see how the team can use both Granger and Peja in the long term.

Kstat
03-14-2006, 12:10 AM
Oh, agreed. But with Miami playing Shaq/Zo together more, there's a real chance that Granger would get stuck on Zo. Which means yet another matchup problem.

Oh I dont see Granger on Zo as big of a problem, since Granger would kill him offensively.

However, you can bet money that there would be nothing left of Granger's nose by the time Zo got through with him..... he'd keep wacking him with his elbow until there was no bone left in his nose.....

SoupIsGood
03-14-2006, 12:15 AM
Am I the only one that was really like that weird, twisting shot that Hulk was showing off? I'm pretty sure that is a new one. His body forms a sort of crescent when he does it.

It was great to see David working out of the post today. He was already killer out of his "I've got insane position on your pathetic little whimpy center" (also called the HULK SMASH position) position, and the natural evolution from that was being able to score out of the post when he doesn't have great position initially. I really like how he's coming along. He gets that wide stance going, and has a few nifty, unorthodox sort of shots that he uses to stick the ball over his man and into the hoop.

(Go David :))

Is there anything better than watching David block the ever living crap out of some little dude's shot? :laugh: He really puts some force and body weight into those.

I think Orlando's coach was too busy looking like that Peterson guy from Seinfeld to tell his team that DANNY GRANGER CAN SHOOT THE BALL!!! Honestly, what were they thinking? They never covered him on the outside, not once. Well, they did once, but Danny did a quick jab fake and Darko went back to not guarding him.

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/9710/21/stars.series/ink.ohurley.jpghttp://www.nba.com/media/magic/history_hill.jpg


I think I am going to start the countdown. It's only a matter of time, at this point. I've seen Danny and David win too many games for us already. How long until they are both starting for us regularly? I'm hoping for the beginning of next season, but I wouldn't mind trying it once JO comes back here at the end of the season.

Honestly, if we are going to do anything in the playoffs, are we going to do it with Pollard, Foster, Peja, or any of those guys? No. If we do any damage against Miami or Detroit, it's going to be because Danny, David, and Jermaine all had excellent series. They, quite simply, are our differnce-makers (Tins too, when he plays).


I'll be counting the games till I get that DH-JO-DG starting frontcourt.

Tinsley, when he plays, is simply THE MAN. I wish he would play more, he was my second favorite Pacer back when he'd play a lot.

:bowdown: to http://www.geocities.com/HoopsCage/Articles/jamaal_tinsley/jamaal-tinsley.jpg

The man is never healthy, but at this point, I'm ready to just HOPE that he can stay healthy for the rest of the season. After all, what other option do we have? Start the man, give him the keys to the offense.

That stutter step of his was in full glory tonight. He did shoot a lot, but I don't have a problem with it, because he attacked the basket the entire time.


Darko is a weird guy. He blocked a ton of shots, but he never looked into the game, like he didn't want to be there or something. Did he do anything emphatically during the entire game?

Oh, Arroyo is still as annoying as ever. God I hate that guy.

Dwight Howard is really scary. I hope Orlando gets moved to the Western conference, or to the Euroleague, or something, before he hits his prime. He's going to rock the ***** out of this league.


And finally, I want to say that if you haven't done it yet, you have to listen to Peja moan, at least once. He sounds like he is DYING out there when he is under the basket.


MUAAAAAAAAA, MUAAAAAAA, ME SHOOT LAYUP

Shade
03-14-2006, 12:15 AM
Oh I dont see Granger on Zo as big of a problem, since Granger would kill him offensively.

However, you can bet money that there would be nothing left of Granger's nose by the time Zo got through with him..... he'd keep wacking him with his elbow until there was no bone left in his nose.....

Maybe we can get that eye-gouger from Pitt to counter...

Anthem
03-14-2006, 12:19 AM
Honestly, if we are going to do anything in the playoffs, are we going to do it with Pollard, Foster, Peja, or any of those guys?
If we're going to do anything in the playoffs, those three guys have got to play well. I agree they're not the future, but right now we just don't have enough beef without Pollard/Foster or enough guns without Peja.

McKeyFan
03-14-2006, 12:57 AM
In one lineup, Jo gets stuck on Shaq. In the other, Granger gets stuck on Wade.

Both are huge matchup problems.

Perhaps. But would another player be less of a problem?

Our options besides Granger are:

Freddy
Jax
AJ

Personally, I see an argument for Granger being as good as the others, perhaps a bit better on Wade.

So . . . Pollard/Hulk + JO, Peja, Danny, Tins could indeed be an interesting lineup.

Hicks
03-14-2006, 01:06 AM
I think Granger has a shot guarding Wade. That is NOT to say he shuts him down, holds him below average, any of that nonsense. But I'd be surprised if he were flat out embarassed. He's too long and smart for it, and I've seen him keep PGs in front of him more than a couple of times.

SoupIsGood
03-14-2006, 01:11 AM
I think Granger has a shot guarding Wade. That is NOT to say he shuts him down, holds him below average, any of that nonsense. But I'd be surprised if he were flat out embarassed. He's too long and smart for it, and I've seen him keep PGs in front of him more than a couple of times.

I think he'd do as well as anyone else on our team. Wade is pretty close to ungauardable anyway.

Kestas
03-14-2006, 05:09 AM
I'm really surprised that Coach Carlisle held Sarunas out of the game after all the effort Sarunas has given this year. It wasn't even 2 weeks ago when the rookie got 11 assists and 14 pts on 5 of 8 shooting against Washington (tie series 2-2). He also played 49 + minutes that game. By holding Sarunas out of the game tonight snapped his games played mark at 60.

Is this the way the Indiana Pacers treats their players? If it is maybe this team has lost more than Reggie Miller over the last year!

wasn't he injuried or something?

besides, it's becoming more and more appearant that this is a different planet for Saras. the game he thinks is right (and I share his view) is simply not being played in there. coach doesn't understand it and doesn't like it. players as well (most likely). NBA is simply too individual. in that regard European game is miles ahead. as simple as that. NBA is comfortable with where it's at and it's not going to improve or make radical changes to the phylosophy that has become a trademark of USA basketball. and which lead to their losses in the international arena, but because international achievements are 100 times less important than a NBA, nobody bothers too much about that. I mean, I've talked about it too much already, but lets bring in Kenny Anderson. my team signed this NBA vet (35 years of age) to help us in the important Top-16 stage of Euroleague, but what happened? we lost all of our games so far in Top-16 and only won one game since his arrival in Euroleague. Kenny is so dissapointing, it's hardly describable. he has got almos zero offense. he doesn't pennetrate, his shot is short. his passing seems to be there, but his decision making is lacking. team plays, hot to put it,.. hard with him at PG. why is that, you may ask. imho it's because Kenny can't believe the game is so different. he is being asked to do different things than he was doing in NBA. he can't understand how to score against local deffenses. being coached by a coach of Lithuanian NT is a radical change for Kenny. here the phylosophy of the game is the one that made people talk about how much international basketball improved compared to USA. in case of Saras (and the followoing stuff is very provocative, so better look away ;)) - the phylosophy of the game he's been forced to play is the one that made people talk about how much USA basketball worsened compared to international basketball.

sure, they are taking steps into the right direction, but they still have plenty to go. or maybe they won't "go" anywhere and that's fine, I guess.
this brings me to a rather strange conclusion: Saras is too good for NBA. obviously, this sounds cheap and childish and hardly deserves to be used in a discussion on a board like this one (although there are international boards where such view would probably be widely supported), but who cares, really?

maybe Bird made a big mistake spending money on Saras. maybe he's not a visionary after all and Saras will never become a starting PG or at least a strong second PG for the Pacers. in that case he's overpayed and overcontracted (12 mln for three years is a lot compared to what AJ is getting).

and I don't care what you will come up with to make my post look bad (coz it really is rather weak, mildly speaking ;)), so don't bother ;)

Kstat
03-14-2006, 05:26 AM
Wow. Kenny Anderson at age 35 sucks in Europe. Gosh, that's just a shocker to me.

As for the rest of the post, It's the same recycled garbage, different day. No point in beating a dead horse.

SoupIsGood
03-14-2006, 05:40 AM
Wow. Kenny Anderson at age 35 sucks in Europe. Gosh, that's just a shocker to me.

As for the rest of the post, It's the same recycled garbage, different day. No point in beating a dead horse.

No kidding, he probably sucks everywhere by now, the man is ancient

Mordecaii
03-14-2006, 06:03 AM
The whole "international basketball is better than the NBA and Saras is too good for the NBA" is getting really old... Am I the only one hoping that the USA basketball team brings back the gold medal in the next olympics just so it'll get people to shut up?

Pacesetter
03-14-2006, 06:37 AM
The whole "international basketball is better than the NBA and Saras is too good for the NBA" is getting really old... Am I the only one hoping that the USA basketball team brings back the gold medal in the next olympics just so it'll get people to shut up?

Actually I couldn't care less about "USA basketball." It's a bunch of marketing hype. Win or lose, makes no difference to me, and it makes little difference to the players, imo. They don't like being pimped - but they like the pimps money. Catch 22.

I think we could use more European basketball influence. I much prefer the mentality of Europeans versus the me mentality exemplified by many top basketball players in the NBA. They're sellouts to prestige and wealth. They have no personality, and they're mostly all too worried about gett'in paid. They don't give a **** about the game anymore, it's about them - it's the [insert players name here] show. The Harlem Globetrotters represented the best basketball had to offer. Entertaining, fun, and low stress. Everything opposite of what USA basketball is now. Somewhere between then and now, the NBA has lost a whole lot!

Just look at the All Star game. It's gross. I guarantee the older dogs know what I'm talking about!

Kestas
03-14-2006, 09:15 AM
No kidding, he probably sucks everywhere by now, the man is ancient

that looks like it. but when he was signed you guys told me he was pretty good and still had some offense in him. one of you even told that he would turn an average team into a contender. generally all remarks were positive.
besides, I look at Payton and he's what, 37?
Kenny was playing rather well for the Pacers three years ago, he is in good physical shape.. how the hell his shot or pennetration or passing deteriorated so radically in three years time? and he's now asked to do it in Europe, where "there's no deffense", so it should be easier for him, shouldn't it? ;)

anyways, I understand Kenny's case is different than Saras'.. all I wanted is to point out the differences of playing style once again. I think Kenny still has two-on-two firmly in his mind (I started thinking so after reading some reflections by some US coach at http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AqorxsWDsknW.9XwtC8dW_m8vLYF?slug=cnnsi-earninghisdue&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns, see Jim Boyheim stuff..). Kenny always wants to make the first pass for a shot and that does not aways work here. and then he gets lost somewhat. while Saras is used to five-on-five and this is never played in NBA. but you know those things too (I hope), so yeah, it was the beating of a dead horse or dead moose or whatever..

Kestas
03-14-2006, 09:21 AM
Actually I couldn't care less about "USA basketball." It's a bunch of marketing hype. Win or lose, makes no difference to me, and it makes little difference to the players, imo.

international competitions always surved as an engine for sports development. any sports. in every basketball country apart from US international achievments are much more important to the players than any club titles. I believe that without healthy international competitions a healthy club basketball is impossible even in NBA.

able
03-14-2006, 09:22 AM
Kenny initially retired 3 years ago, for two reasons, 1: nobody was lining up for him anymore and 2: his knees are shot.

His knees are really bad, so he will have less elevation on his shot and certainly less twist in his movement, meaning he will be less interested in penetrating.

Without his knee trouble he would likely still be playing in the NBA because as far as talent goes there are certainly lesser players on teams right now.

Chauncey
03-14-2006, 09:30 AM
Did someone in this thread just compare Kenny Anderson to Gary Payton?

*sigh*

That's just depressing. Not quite as bad as the Maceo Baston-JO comparisons..but wow..just wow.

DeS
03-14-2006, 10:36 AM
As for Kenny Anderson, I didn't think he will be as bad. He was brought as a starter and he ended somewhere at E. Gill level (I used to think he will be at least as good as our 2nd-stringer) in the mediocre Euroleague team... Well, it doesn't matter now.
As for Saras (I've got the impression RC didn't played healthy JO ;)), we can make some speculations on why he didn't played, but these will be only speculations. Sadly (for me), it seems that Rick didn't found (and will not find) a place for Saras. As it seems - the talents of Saras are redundant for the coach and his shortcommings are exposed. And Rick is reverting to the old team and to the old playing style (if we take into account several last games). The outcome will be similar, but I do not find it very joyful. Early this season I wanted this team to perform on the other level. The only positive things I observe is developing Granger and Harison and some more ball movement. Other than that I find depressing.

Kestas
03-14-2006, 11:01 AM
Did someone in this thread just compare Kenny Anderson to Gary Payton?

*sigh*

That's just depressing. Not quite as bad as the Maceo Baston-JO comparisons..but wow..just wow.

yeah, they were both mentioned in one post. I must be out of my mind to do such a stupid thing. please forgive me, Mr. Basketball, I wasn't aware of what I was doing!!!:duh: :worship:

(wow, writing to Basketball himself (itself?) sure is a huge honor!)

ChicagoJ
03-14-2006, 11:28 AM
Anyone else just hear what Rick just said in his post game press conference. He was talking about how he wanted to make sure they stayed out of holding the ball and out of Iso situations.


"it's clear Tinsley is a difference maker out there"

What the heck... are you now on the Tinsley bandwagon.

Just when you think you know a guy. :chuckle:

ChicagoJ
03-14-2006, 11:36 AM
Did someone in this thread just compare Kenny Anderson to Gary Payton?

*sigh*

That's just depressing. Not quite as bad as the Maceo Baston-JO comparisons..but wow..just wow.


Unbelievable. I had to pick myself up off the floor.

Did I also see that KA was "playing well for the Pacers" three years ago?

I must've missed that while I had my fingers crossed, waiting for Tinsley to return and save that team from its 8-7 stretch during December 2003.