PDA

View Full Version : Open Your Eyes



ROCislandWarrior
03-13-2006, 03:19 AM
Two years ago this team was a beast. Ron Artest and Jermaine O'neal dominated. Reggie Miller provided his veteran leadership and well placed shots. Fred Jones was a young spark plug and the other pieces filed in place.

NEWS FLASH: THAT WAS 2 YEARS AGO!

Even that team could not make the NBA Finals. Then a brawl happened, a nut case was revealed. Suspensions, retirement and two years time elapsed. A major trade, development of other teams and just plain and simple...for you younger ones...the world does not stop and wait for Pacerland.


I can't believe how wavering some of you guys are. I can't believe some of the expectations you place upon THIS team. You over rank and over rate. To the opposition...they would call it delusions of grander.

Look at our current team and honestly tell me we are in the same class as the Pistons. Tell yourself the Pacers are in the same class as the Spurs...the Mavericks...the Heat, must I go on? Do you believe it? I didn't think so.

Right now Peja and Jax are our big two. Enough said right there.

It was all fine and dandy when we were winning at home. Then we go on the road with an unproven team and things get iffy... honestly, if you didn't expect that, then you don't know the first thing about NBA basketball. I am not going to explain, but posters like Hicks and Unclebuck know exactly what I mean by that.

Look at our record. Look at our team. Look at the past. Look at the present. Now look at the future.

Once JO comes back, we will have an entirely different team for the third time this season.

Many of you have no idea who I am. The only reason I have returned to post this is for your benefit.

Peaks and Valleys...Peaks and Valleys.

I guarantee you right now Larry Bird is nodding his head and thinking "We are right on schedule"

Calm down, Relax, Enjoy the ride... without the roller coaster, without the emotions sports would not captivate us to the grand extent that they do.

It is about the bigger picture and the vision of few. That is what separates leaders from followers. Do you believe THIS team has a great chance to make the playoffs?

I do

Keep your heads out of the clouds yet far above the gutters...you will do just fine.

SoupIsGood
03-13-2006, 03:34 AM
Wow! Back when you used to post, this quote



I see it as plan F. As in fail.

OK, I admit that was pretty lame. But if anyone thinks that Grainger is going to make anyone forget about Artest they are insane


was fairly recent.

Talk about a blast from the past

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 03:48 AM
Unclebuck said that?

And who the hell is ROCislandWarrior?

IT DOESNT MATTER WHO THE HELL ROCisland Warrior IS!:therock:

Seriously, who are you?

PostArtestEra
03-13-2006, 04:04 AM
Look at our current team and honestly tell me we are in the same class as the Pistons. Tell yourself the Pacers are in the same class as the Spurs...the Mavericks...the Heat, must I go on? Do you believe it? I didn't think so.


Add the Suns to that list and you have every team in the NBA that is better than the Pacers at full Strength ( IMO). Look at our healthy team and tell me that the Cavs are in the same class as us. Tell me the Nets are in the same class as us. The Clippers... the Nuggets, must I go on? Seems to me we are about the 6th best team in the NBA when at full strength, and while I don't expect us to necessarily win the championship this year, after what we have gone through thats not half bad. I think you might want to re-evaluate your expectations. Someone please back me up here.

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 04:15 AM
1. Pistons
2. Spurs
3. Mavericks

4. Suns
5. Heat

6. a toss up between Pacers/Clippers

Evan_The_Dude
03-13-2006, 04:31 AM
As an NBA fan I expect my team to compete for a championship no matter who we have. Anything less is a disappointment.

PostArtestEra
03-13-2006, 04:52 AM
As an NBA fan I expect my team to compete for a championship no matter who we have. Anything less is a disappointment.

Man your gonna be disappointed a lot in your life if your expectations are that high. I say this as an avid Cubs and Bears fan. I'd say being arguably top 5 in the NBA is damn good.

J_2_Da_IzzO
03-13-2006, 09:21 AM
I still think with a full strength squad we are better then Heat so I would put us 5th.

Unclebuck
03-13-2006, 09:26 AM
That quote of mine had to be over the summer.

3ballinhoop
03-13-2006, 09:27 AM
Why make a ranking like this? With the status quo the Pacers can only lose in a ranking like this. The team does not deserve to be in the 6th spot it is put in.
Saying that, they can be a force in the playoffs. Look at this season: injuries, Artest, O'Neal being injured. That means there has been some major issue the entire season. Every team deals with tihs, but the pacers have had a rough time. They still have a pretty good record to show, and with a few months more time and O'Neal coming back I think this can be a dangerous team.
They can beat the Heat, but really don't deserve to be put above them or the Cavs in this ranking.

fwpacerfan
03-13-2006, 09:48 AM
We are 6th best talent wise but about 22nd mentally. This team has too many loose cannons (well ok one big loose cannon in Jackson) to put together a consistent run I'm afraid. I keep waiting for things to come together every night but it's not happening. The one good game, one bad game will continue I fear until personnel changes.

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 09:56 AM
Well, guess I should've put my post from the chokers thread over here. To make a long story short, I agree with ROCIsland. Best case scenario with JO back is a first round win and a second round effort that sort of makes us look good given the season we've had. Kind of carbon copy of last year. If they do better, I'll gladly eat my words, but I just don't think this team has what it takes to do anything beyond. A more probable scenario is a 1st round loss to Cleveland on the road assuming we can hold on to 5th spot. My question is whether the talent currently gathered on this roster can ever put us on championship calibur level. I hope ROCisland's big picture includes the likelihood that there will be some key moves to better complement some of what we currently have to make a real push in the near future.

FrenchConnection
03-13-2006, 11:00 AM
As an NBA fan I expect my team to compete for a championship no matter who we have. Anything less is a disappointment.

Enjoy the games, man....

SwissExpress
03-13-2006, 11:01 AM
1. Pistons
2. Spurs
3. Mavericks

4. Suns
5. Heat

6. a toss up between Pacers/Clippers

Talent-wise, I'd also put
6. Denver,
7. Houston (with their stars healthy and Swift/Rafer Alston mentally-fine),
8. Cleveland (with healthy Hughes and mentally-fine Marshall and Damon Jones),

ahead of Pacers.

Pacers would be somewhere in the 9/10 with Philadelphia.

New Jersey, Milwaukee, Memphis, Sacramento, Clippers and Utah (with healthy Boozer) are rather close to Indiana, too.

SoupIsGood
03-13-2006, 11:22 AM
That quote of mine had to be over the summer.


Yes, it was draft day. I meant to say that.


Weird how things change sometimes.

rexnom
03-13-2006, 11:33 AM
Ok, first of all, I think that this entire thread is a reaction to our latest mini-slide. I am getting all sorts of negativity here. But how can you not be encouraged from what we have seen?

- We got much closer to fair value than any of us had ever hoped for Ron. In fact, Peja is making us all think we should've pushed for this trade a long while ago.
- We have two outstanding young guns in Hulk and Danger. Heck, they even have nicknames.
- We have three quality pgs healthy on the roster as of right now. Compare to last year where we had one.
- We've been playing ok without our biggest star and considering how much attention he is going to draw when he comes back, I say that is enough.
- Jack, while still taking bad shots, has improved his overall game.
- Freddie is showing how valuable he really is
- Our big men are proving that, when healthy, they are pretty good. I mean who has a better series of big men than the Pacers
- Although we've struggled on the road, we've shown how effective we can be at home.

Need I go on? I really could. I am just looking at the positives because the way I see it we are, once again, a short-handed team doing the best we can.

One last question, if this was the off-season and all the players were re-signed and healthy, would anyone go into the season and not put is in the top 5?

3Ball
03-13-2006, 11:40 AM
I would definitely include Memphis above us and probably Sacto as well. Even LA can't be more than a hair's breadth behind us.

I think the negativity isn't that we've moved from "Studs" to "God awful." The negativity comes from the fact that we've moved firmly out of the Possible Contender category, and there really isn't any suggestion on the horizon that we'll be back any time soon. We had our moment, and now we're back into Decent Also-Rans for the forseeable future. IF we hang on to what we've got.

rexnom
03-13-2006, 11:53 AM
I would definitely include Memphis above us and probably Sacto as well. Even LA can't be more than a hair's breadth behind us.

I think the negativity isn't that we've moved from "Studs" to "God awful." The negativity comes from the fact that we've moved firmly out of the Possible Contender category, and there really isn't any suggestion on the horizon that we'll be back any time soon. We had our moment, and now we're back into Decent Also-Rans for the forseeable future. IF we hang on to what we've got.

What are the signs that make you see this? What is that makes the Pacers just decent? How can you even compare the Lakers to us?

I'm starting to agree more and more with original poster. It's a few road losses. It gets tough on the road for a short-handed team. A few weeks ago when we weren't as short-handed and at home we had a "could we win a championship" thread. Nobody found it ridiculous. I still don't. The odds will be stacked heavily against us, yes. And I would never, ever put money on us but in the end I wouldn't go as far as saying we couldn't giving some teams some serious trouble in the playoffs.

SwissExpress
03-13-2006, 12:01 PM
3Ball probably meant the other LA team.

If I remember correctly, rather many posters did find that "could we win a championship" thread ridiculous back then...

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Pacers won quite much - even the title. But not because I'd think they are a top-5 team in terms of talent, i.e. more talented than Denver or Cleveland. Rather, because I believe they have potential to be a top-5 team mentally and by team play. I know they aren't showing that recently; but I had this belief since last season, and I haven't lost it yet...

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 12:07 PM
Talent-wise, I'd also put
6. Denver,
7. Houston (with their stars healthy and Swift/Rafer Alston mentally-fine),
8. Cleveland (with healthy Hughes and mentally-fine Marshall and Damon Jones),

ahead of Pacers.

Pacers would be somewhere in the 9/10 with Philadelphia.

New Jersey, Milwaukee, Memphis, Sacramento, Clippers and Utah (with healthy Boozer) are rather close to Indiana, too.

I like this ranking. Seems more accurate to me.

bulletproof
03-13-2006, 12:14 PM
Peja is making us all think we should've pushed for this trade a long while ago.

Um, we did. Right after the ECFs and later that summer. The Kings didn't bite.

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 12:16 PM
I think the negativity isn't that we've moved from "Studs" to "God awful." The negativity comes from the fact that we've moved firmly out of the Possible Contender category, and there really isn't any suggestion on the horizon that we'll be back any time soon. We had our moment, and now we're back into Decent Also-Rans for the forseeable future. IF we hang on to what we've got.

Yes! This is what I've been trying to say but possibly not expressing as clearly, 3Ball. I don't know what "decent also rans" exactly means, but I'd suggest with our current crop of talent our best-case (not just this year) is destined for 2nd round exit. Maybe we squeak into ECFs, but I can't buy this collection as contender material barring significant changes. Has my angst finally boiled over or is there something to this?? I just dont' see anyone that really has the combo of cojones, ability, and durability to lead us to that level.

bulletproof
03-13-2006, 12:17 PM
Many of you have no idea who I am. The only reason I have returned to post this is for your benefit.

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you.

Shade
03-13-2006, 12:29 PM
I still think with a full strength squad we are better then Heat so I would put us 5th.

I was just about to say that. And that puts as at #2 in the East. We'd only have to beat ONE of those Western powerhouses to win the title.

Shade
03-13-2006, 12:31 PM
Wow! Back when you used to post, this quote





was fairly recent.

Talk about a blast from the past

Ar-who?

beast23
03-13-2006, 12:48 PM
I can't believe how wavering some of you guys are. I can't believe some of the expectations you place upon THIS team. You over rank and over rate. To the opposition...they would call it delusions of grander.....

Peaks and Valleys...Peaks and Valleys....

Calm down, Relax, Enjoy the ride... without the roller coaster, without the emotions sports would not captivate us to the grand extent that they do....
You've hit exactly on what this team is all about. It's a team under development, both in maturity and in talent. A team that is struggling to perfect its ability to perform within the style that it has chosen.

And yes, that will result in peaks and valleys, and a long emotional roller coaster ride.

But I don't really think there is a need to chastise. Getting one's hopes up and leading one to believe that a team has turned the corner, only to be disappointed with the next loss to a more inferior team. Isn't that what a roller coaster ride and the emotional aspect of that ride are all about?

Certainly this team will improve when Jermaine returns.

But I think that even after Jermaine returns, this team will continue to struggle, because it probably other players even more than Jermaine. Especially players like Reggie and Dale. You see, I don't think that a lack of abilities is the probelm of this team. What it does lack is maturity and mental toughness.

Without a little maturity and mental toughness it will never reach a level of consistency, where we nearly always beat the teams that we "are supposed to beat" and occassionally find ways to beat the teams that are better, even on their home courts.

Until then, we will continue to lose to teams like Toronto, New York, Orlando, Charlotte and Atlanta.

And for that reason, I don't think this team is "exactly where Larry Bird" thinks it should be. Not when we lost to teams like those, no matter who we put on the floor. Bird can accept the fact that won't always beat Milwaukee, Philly and Cleveland because that's what inconsistency is all about. But I'll bet it peeves Bird beyond belief that we aren't yet consistent enough to feast on the fodder every single time we play them.

ChicagoJ
03-13-2006, 02:05 PM
Welcome back, ROC.

Don't be a stranger.

PacerMan
03-13-2006, 02:16 PM
Two years ago this team was a beast. Ron Artest and Jermaine O'neal dominated. Reggie Miller provided his veteran leadership and well placed shots. Fred Jones was a young spark plug and the other pieces filed in place.

NEWS FLASH: THAT WAS 2 YEARS AGO!

Even that team could not make the NBA Finals. Then a brawl happened, a nut case was revealed. Suspensions, retirement and two years time elapsed. A major trade, development of other teams and just plain and simple...for you younger ones...the world does not stop and wait for Pacerland.




That team, if healthy, would have been in the finals. You can't help injuries.
So your entire premise is flawed.

dryles
03-13-2006, 02:31 PM
To me, "Championship" has nothing to do with this. Neither does the Pistons, Heat, or Spurs...
What's getting me down is we are putting ourselves in position to win games, but not winning them! Lately it seems every game comes down to a couple of possessions, and we are almost guaranteed to blow it...
IOW, this team as it is, is playing well enough to win, but letting them get away

Fireball Kid
03-13-2006, 02:34 PM
That team, if healthy, would have been in the finals. You can't help injuries.
So your entire premise is flawed.
Finally! Someone that disagrees! Now we can see some excitment!:lurk:

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 02:47 PM
That team, if healthy, would have been in the finals. You can't help injuries.
So your entire premise is flawed.

I'm not sure this can be stated definitively-the part about without injury they would have made the finals. Had there not been injuries, we still would have had to beat them 4 times, which is no small feat. Yes, we had a better regular season record, but by the time we played them with Sheed they had really hit their stride. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but you speak as if it were a given.

Sirius
03-13-2006, 02:49 PM
I really enjoy the original post. My gripe here is that everyone seems to be acting like the current team is our permanent team. Of course that would be a bad state of affairs. However, we have an all-star forward coming back in a few weeks who has been the focus of our franchise for the past 6ish years. I think that's a pretty big deal. Of course you all know this, but stop acting like our team is peja and sjax, damn. I doubt we're even top ten with that, but you have to like our chances as a TEAM against the heat with JO back in the mix, not to mention against much lesser teams like the cavs, sixers, nugs. I mean that talk is pretty ridiculous there. We were a powerhouse with artest, a couple of stupid injuries from the finals. we traded him for a player of great talent who is proving rather effective in the small amount of games since the trade. Seriously do you all really think that getting our best player back won't bring us back to strength? Imagine if we had lost JO in the 60 win season...where would we have been then. Everyone needs to just chill and wait and see how we are with our <b>superstar</b>, regardless of how you feel about him. As far as I recall, the Heat are a .500 team without shaq or wade, and god knows what the pistons are without one of their ridiculously indispensible starters. Honestly I'm just excited as hell to see what we're like with peja and jo on the floor together, combined with our collective experience and would-be mental toughness. In other words, this "valley" really doesn't mean that much until we see where we can really peak.

D-BONE
03-13-2006, 02:53 PM
I really enjoy the original post. My gripe here is that everyone seems to be acting like the current team is our permanent team. Of course that would be a bad state of affairs. However, we have an all-star forward coming back in a few weeks who has been the focus of our franchise for the past 6ish years. I think that's a pretty big deal. Of course you all know this, but stop acting like our team is peja and sjax, damn. I doubt we're even top ten with that, but you have to like our chances as a TEAM against the heat with JO back in the mix, not to mention against much lesser teams like the cavs, sixers, nugs. I mean that talk is pretty ridiculous there. We were a powerhouse with artest, a couple of stupid injuries from the finals. we traded him for a player of great talent who is proving rather effective in the small amount of games since the trade. Seriously do you all really think that getting our best player back won't bring us back to strength? Imagine if we had lost JO in the 60 win season...where would we have been then. Everyone needs to just chill and wait and see how we are with our <b>superstar</b>, regardless of how you feel about him. As far as I recall, the Heat are a .500 team without shaq or wade, and god knows what the pistons are without one of their ridiculously indispensible starters. Honestly I'm just excited as hell to see what we're like with peja and jo on the floor together, combined with our collective experience and would-be mental toughness. In other words, this "valley" really doesn't mean that much until we see where we can really peak.

Is JO really a superstar? How much difference will he really make? Yes, we'll be better, but a championship contender? Also, is it really certain to refer to the Nuggets and Cavs as lesser teams? Until we show otherwise, I see us as in their general vecinity if not slightly behind them, at least the Cavs.

SoupIsGood
03-13-2006, 05:35 PM
JO is a superstar when he's fully healthy. After a couple games, he collects injuries and his level of play drops.

That's what I think.

I <3 JO

ROCislandWarrior
03-13-2006, 06:00 PM
That team, if healthy, would have been in the finals. You can't help injuries.
So your entire premise is flawed.

Would have, could have, should have...

Did we make the finals that year? No


I really don't understand...please teach me your logic, that sounds like an argument from someone who is immature.

Kstat
03-13-2006, 06:10 PM
It's very easy to spek in absolutes when re-writing history because nobody can prove you wrong.

Laker fan could say the Lakers "for sure" would have beaten us in 1989 and 2004 had some key players not gone down.

On the other hand, I could say "for sure" that the Pistons would have beaten Boston in 1987 had Vinnie and Dantley not cracked heads, and we "for sure" would have beaten LA in 1988 had we had a healthy Isiah for the last 2 games.

Pacesetter
03-13-2006, 06:51 PM
Is JO really a superstar?

Yes, JO is really a superstar! :)