PDA

View Full Version : Conrad: Will Pacers Be Able To Keep Peja, Jones?



Raskolnikov
03-06-2006, 05:56 PM
Q. In your last "Question of the Day" response you stated "(Peja) Stojakovic should evolve into the team MVP by the end of the season." You also mentioned that at the present you would "probably go with (Fred) Jones" as the current MVP. I also agree that both are very valuable and some of the biggest reasons for optimism in relation to the rest of the season. Both stand to be potential free agents after this season.

I'm really nervous about the prospect of either player leaving the Indiana Pacers. Actually, to put it more accurately, I'm beginning to suffer through some increasingly intense anxiety over the issue. Should fans be resigned to the fact that it's unlikely to think that they could have a long-term future with this team that is already well over the salary cap? Is there any way that you could put my mind at ease and give me at least some hope to think that it might be possible to keep both players? (From Rick in Bridgeport, N.Y.)

A. There are no certainties when it comes to free agency, only calculated risks, and the Pacers are playing the percentages with both Stojakovic and Jones. There's no guarantee either will be back next season, but both are at the top of the franchise's offseason priority list.

Though Stojakovic reportedly has one more season (at $8.2 million) on his current contract, he has the ability to opt out and become a free agent. The Pacers were well aware of this when they acquired him from Sacramento for Ron Artest and have made it clear they will make every effort to retain Stojakovic, assuming he does opt out. Though his agent has indicated the plan is to go the opt-out route, Stojakovic hasn't given a public indication either way.

The Pacers very much want to keep him, and it appears he is very happy in his new surroundings. Keep in mind, teams can exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own players, and the Pacers will have the ability to offer more money over a longer term than other teams because of collective bargaining agreement rules. So do they have some big factors working in their favor.

Though they did not reach an agreement on a contract extension for Jones entering this season, when the window was open, the Pacers can still take steps to retain the dynamic young guard. As long as they make a qualifying offer (reportedly set at one year and $3.2 million) prior to June 30, he will remain a restricted free agent, which gives the Pacers the ability to match any offer made by another team. Jones could sign the qualifying offer, thus becoming an unrestricted free agent after the 2006-07 season, or negotiate a new deal with the Pacers.

The system was designed to encourage roster continuity and has built-in advantages for teams that want to retain their own free agents. So rest a little more comfortably, at least for now.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question.html

skyfire
03-06-2006, 06:14 PM
Given the lack of big-name allstars in this years free agent group, but overall depth of mid-level players it could prove to be a very interesting period.

GO!!!!!
03-06-2006, 06:28 PM
What sort of figures Does Peja have in mind ?? if he's opting out of 8.2 Mil makes me think he's worth more, but how much are we will to pay for his services

he's what just 29


Ranks #2 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.919)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.417)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made(108.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(3.14)

I'd be looking @ a four year extension worth 42 Mill tops, but thats me, what figures does everone else think ?

rexnom
03-06-2006, 06:41 PM
i actually think Peja will be looking for 7 years and starting at around 10 mil. It ain't gonna be cheap to keep him...

Anthem
03-06-2006, 06:41 PM
I'd be looking @ a four year extension worth 42 Mill tops, but thats me, what figures does everone else think ?
So that's 9mil/10mil/11mil/12mil? I could go with that.

Much more, though, and I'd be pretty nervous. Peja has a history of tanking it, and I'm worried that we're seeing a contract year.

Anthem
03-06-2006, 06:41 PM
i actually think Peja will be looking for 7 years and starting at around 10 mil.
Then he can walk. If Chicago's willing to give that kind of money, then they deserve each other.

diamonddave00
03-06-2006, 06:52 PM
I'll go out on a limb I think the Pacers will end up resigning Peja Stojakovic but Fred Jones will go elsewhere quite possibly Portland, who are using Juan Dixon a lot as their shooting guard.

With Stephen Jackson signed long term and Fred only 1 year younger than Jack I don't see the Pacers giving Jones a long term money deal.

But we will see.

rexnom
03-06-2006, 06:59 PM
I'll go out on a limb I think the Pacers will end up resigning Peja Stojakovic but Fred Jones will go elsewhere quite possibly Portland, who are using Juan Dixon a lot as their shooting guard.

With Stephen Jackson signed long term and Fred only 1 year younger than Jack I don't see the Pacers giving Jones a long term money deal.

But we will see.

I agree with that. I think it's likely we resign Peja. Bird wants him too bad. Pacers seem a little lukewarm on Fred. And we have a history of letting players like this go. It does leave us extremely vulnerable at SG. I think we'd see a lot of PGs playing at the 2 if this happens.

VF21
03-06-2006, 07:01 PM
What sort of figures Does Peja have in mind ?? if he's opting out of 8.2 Mil makes me think he's worth more, but how much are we will to pay for his services

he's what just 29


Ranks #2 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.919)
Ranks #12 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage(0.417)
Ranks #15 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made(108.0)
Ranks #8 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Per 48 Minutes(3.14)

I'd be looking @ a four year extension worth 42 Mill tops, but thats me, what figures does everone else think ?

For the record, Peja's agent has stated a number of times that he's sure his client is worth the max and that if his current team (then the Kings) wouldn't give it to him, he was pretty sure another team would...

Peja's agent has, in the past, made some really dumb comments on behalf of his client. Let's hope they both have learned from their mistakes. Peja would, IMHO, be a fool to opt out on you guys without making EVERY effort to find a way to stay.

PacerMan
03-06-2006, 07:05 PM
I'll go out on a limb I think the Pacers will end up resigning Peja Stojakovic but Fred Jones will go elsewhere quite possibly Portland, who are using Juan Dixon a lot as their shooting guard.

With Stephen Jackson signed long term and Fred only 1 year younger than Jack I don't see the Pacers giving Jones a long term money deal.

But we will see.


They'll move Jax and keep Freddie.
You'll see. ")

diamonddave00
03-06-2006, 07:10 PM
Pacer man it will be hard to move Jackson and I don't think the Pacer brass sees Fred Jones as anything more than a backup shooting guard.

If the age difference were greater than one year I could see signing Fred for big money but as it is Jackson is signed for 3 more years and will be 31 when his deal runs out at which time Fred is 30.

I may very well be wrong but I just don't think the Pacers see Jones as a 5 mil + a year backup nor a full time starter.

Anthem
03-06-2006, 07:11 PM
For the record, Peja's agent has stated a number of times that he's sure his client is worth the max and that if his current team (then the Kings) wouldn't give it to him, he was pretty sure another team would...
Like I said, if he thinks Chicago would give him the max, then they're welcome to him. If it's worth $4mil/year to lose every game for the rest of his life, he's welcome to go to Toronto.

Unclebuck
03-06-2006, 08:21 PM
What do you think the Pacers should pay each of those two players. Instead of always complaining afterward about the deals that certain players sign, Foster, Bender, Artest......let's go on the record now

Roy Munson
03-06-2006, 08:31 PM
What do you think the Pacers should pay each of those two players. Instead of always complaining afterward about the deals that certain players sign, Foster, Bender, Artest......let's go on the record now

Peja should command about 60 million over 5 years. Will the Pacers give him that? I don't know. I imagine he'll push for 6 or 7 years, so if some other teams says they will do it, then he might be gone.

Freddy should get offers of around 30 million over 5 years. Again, it depends on what other do. I do not see Portland getting in the mix bidding for Freddy. With Paul Allen crying poor these days (hey, it's hard to get by with 12 billion dollars), I don't think they'll do much with free agents this summer. I see them playing terrible one more season, then trying to get lucky and get Greg Oden's ping-pong ball.

GO!!!!!
03-06-2006, 08:36 PM
I think four years @ 42-44 Million or five years @ 55 TOPS, he’s a high scoring SF and nice but not essential, in the 2008/2009 season we will have

Jermaine making 21 Million
Stephen making 7 Million
Jamaal making 6.7 Mil
Jeff making 6 Mil
Granger and Harrison 2.5 each

For a total of about 41 Mill

I like Freddie and want to keep him and would offer the same length four years for a total off 20-25 Mill, it’s dreaming I know but that’s what I’d put on the table, if Portland or Memphis want to pay more well that’s there choice

Peja, is 29, in five years he’ll be 34, do we want a 34 year old small FWD making 12 plus Million, ask Dallas and Michael Finley

I’m happy for a 4-year contract at about 44 million, if granger is our future SF then that’s all I want to spend.

aceace
03-06-2006, 08:49 PM
With Reggies,Benders(medical) and Pollards contracts off after this year. I think we can sign them both. I would like to keep Pollard at 3-4 million if he would take it. Croshere is off after next year so that will free up more money. I don't see us losing either one. Peja will get at least 10 million first year but not max. If we beat the Pistons and win a Championship and Peja looks great he can have Conseco fieldhouse beer and hotdog profits too in a bonus that would have to be worth a couple million more. IMHO....

bulldog
03-06-2006, 09:26 PM
First of all, I believe that as of the new CBA, 5 years is max, right?

Secondly, I'm almost sure Peja opts out, because he'd rather go against the likes of Al Harrington than Dirk/Bosh in 2007. That said, he won't necessarily get overpaid, because teams will be hesitant to blow the bank on (/give the max to) a guy that won't put them over the top. The teams with space like Chicago and Orlando seem to be cellar teams that need a pure scorer/leader rather than a complementary shooter like Peja; they might be content to roll the dice and sit still another year (and maybe wait for King James). And as long as no one is going nuts with the dollars signs, I think our situation is as favorable as any for him. So let's say, 5 years, 55 mil. Have my fingers crossed.

As far as Fred, I'd like to keep him, but the Jackson being signed long term thing is spot on. Not to mention, I think someone might overspend for him and give him more than the MLE, because there are few solid free agents around...I think the Clips will be very interested depending on what they do with Mobley/Radmanovic.

Pacerized
03-06-2006, 09:27 PM
I think the new cba only allows for a max. 6 year deal from us, and a max 5 year deal from any other team. I'm sure Peja, and his agent know that this is his big payday, so I'm sure a 6 year deal is a must if we want to keep him. I would hope something like 6 years 55-60mil. starting in the 8.5 mil. range. would do it.
I don't see Fred getting that much attention as a free agent. I would hope to keep him for Saras money. 4 years averaging 4 mil. per.

Shade
03-06-2006, 09:29 PM
I'll go out on a limb I think the Pacers will end up resigning Peja Stojakovic but Fred Jones will go elsewhere quite possibly Portland, who are using Juan Dixon a lot as their shooting guard.

With Stephen Jackson signed long term and Fred only 1 year younger than Jack I don't see the Pacers giving Jones a long term money deal.

But we will see.

My thoughts exactly. I want to retain Fred, though, as we really need his scoring punch off the bench.

Freddie is an almost perfect bench player, but isn't a starting caliber player on a title contender.

Shade
03-06-2006, 09:34 PM
I think the new cba only allows for a max. 6 year deal from us, and a max 5 year deal from any other team. I'm sure Peja, and his agent know that this is his big payday, so I'm sure a 6 year deal is a must if we want to keep him. I would hope something like 6 years 55-60mil. starting in the 8.5 mil. range. would do it.
I don't see Fred getting that much attention as a free agent. I would hope to keep him for Saras money. 4 years averaging 4 mil. per.

I think Freddie will pull in upwards of $6 mil per.

rexnom
03-06-2006, 09:34 PM
My thoughts exactly. I want to retain Fred, though, as we really need his scoring punch off the bench.

Freddie is an almost perfect bench player, but isn't a starting caliber player on a title contender.

Though you can't let guys like this go. Especially since we are so thin at SG and Freddie almost always comes up biggest in the 4th quarter where most of our guys usually shy away...

Hicks
03-06-2006, 10:23 PM
Then he can walk. If Chicago's willing to give that kind of money, then they deserve each other.

What do you expect? He's a 3-time all-star, in his prime, and is playing at an all-star level again right now. These are the players that deserve that money.

Los Angeles
03-06-2006, 10:32 PM
We're learning right now that Fred won't play well with the starting unit.

And we've already learned that 6 mil/year is way too much to pay for a backup, no matter who that is. (See Pollard, Bender, Croshere, etc, etc.) I wont be surprised if management lets them both walk, or does a "sign and trade" that brings in a center.

bulldog
03-06-2006, 10:33 PM
I think the new cba only allows for a max. 6 year deal from us, and a max 5 year deal from any other team. I'm sure Peja, and his agent know that this is his big payday, so I'm sure a 6 year deal is a must if we want to keep him. I would hope something like 6 years 55-60mil. starting in the 8.5 mil. range. would do it.
I don't see Fred getting that much attention as a free agent. I would hope to keep him for Saras money. 4 years averaging 4 mil. per.

That extra year is a huge bonus for us with regards to Peja.

Peja's gonna be pretty old if he signs another contract after the upcoming one (which there probably won't even be). I think that 6th year will be extremeley important for him.

1 mil/year? I think you're really lowballing Freddie.

Anthem
03-06-2006, 10:35 PM
What do you expect? He's a 3-time all-star, in his prime, and is playing at an all-star level again right now. These are the players that deserve that money.
We'll see, I guess. I'll go on the record now and say 60mil over 5 years is too much.

And I absolutely cannot see Freddy getting a 6mil/year contract.

skyfire
03-06-2006, 10:52 PM
Looking through the list (http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_13008.shtml) of free agents, there are a fair few MLE or slightly above quality swingmen, but most of them are natural small forwards.

Some team could overpay for Freddy, but as he is abit short for a SG I wouldn't see many teams considering him a starting option. 6mil/year is alot to give for an undersized backup.

Hicks
03-06-2006, 10:54 PM
We'll see, I guess. I'll go on the record now and say 60mil over 5 years is too much.

And I absolutely cannot see Freddy getting a 6mil/year contract.

At that rate you must have been dancing in the streets when we traded Brad Miller.

Anthem
03-06-2006, 11:16 PM
At that rate you must have been dancing in the streets when we traded Brad Miller.
No, I thought Brad's contract with the Kings was a little high, but not too much.

I just want to hear it from you. Tell me you think Fred is worth 6mil a year for the next 5 years. Tell me you think Peja is worth 12 mil a year for the next 5 years.

Hicks
03-06-2006, 11:23 PM
Fred is not worth 6mm over 5 years. Peja is worth 12mm over 5 years. A max 3 years ago was 126mm over 7 years. Compared to that, 60mm over 5 years in 2006 isn't at all something to balk at.

skyfire
03-06-2006, 11:36 PM
I agree that 60mil / 5years is alot for Peja, but not outside the realms of possibility of what the Bulls might pay if they thought it would make them a contender. Most of the teams that have big capspace have relative depth at SF tho...

I think we'd have to give a 6year contract if we were to keep him.

60-65mil / 6years ?

ChicagoJ
03-06-2006, 11:43 PM
Fred's looking at the MLE. What is that, six years and forty million (or so)?

Peja - a little harder to guess.

Guys that are 29 don't get huge contracts anymore. This ain't 1999/2000 again, where Brian Grant and Eddie Jones and Jalen Rose and more could get absurd contracts.

If Peja gets a six-year, $65 million deal he should take it.

Too bad the Pacers now have Granger. I like Peja, but he's a rental until Danny is ready to go full-time.

We need someone at SG with Peja's skill set, but with the quickness to defend SGs.

I wouldn't mind Fred backing up *that* guy. I'd like to S&T Peja for a SG and throw-in SJax and get back a backup C.

Unclebuck
03-06-2006, 11:47 PM
Fred's looking at the MLE. What is that, six years and forty million (or so)?

Peja - a little harder to guess.

Guys that are 29 don't get huge contracts anymore. This ain't 1999/2000 again, where Brian Grant and Eddie Jones and Jalen Rose and more could get absurd contracts.

If Peja gets a six-year, $65 million deal he should take it.

Too bad the Pacers now have Granger. I like Peja, but he's a rental until Danny is ready to go full-time.

We need someone at SG with Peja's skill set, but with the quickness to defend SGs.

I wouldn't mind Fred backing up *that* guy. I'd like to S&T Peja for a SG and throw-in SJax and get back a backup C.

I agree with all of that. But I hope we can sign Peja to a short term deal, even if we have to pay more per season.,

PacerMan
03-06-2006, 11:56 PM
Pacer man it will be hard to move Jackson and I don't think the Pacer brass sees Fred Jones as anything more than a backup shooting guard.

If the age difference were greater than one year I could see signing Fred for big money but as it is Jackson is signed for 3 more years and will be 31 when his deal runs out at which time Fred is 30.

I may very well be wrong but I just don't think the Pacers see Jones as a 5 mil + a year backup nor a full time starter.


I can't speak to Jax contract situation but I get a mild feeling that the PTB are losing faith in his abilities. When we get Jermaine back our scoring option rotation is back in place. If they can sign Peja you've got the outside shooter that Jax has never been. Add in Fred's increasing ability to create and Jax becomes much less important to this team. With Hulk coming on, Jermaine to play 4, Granger as the future at 3, behind Peja for now, we are pretty set for the future up front. I could easily see us drafting an athletic, rangy 2 guard this year unless by some miracle a super quick pg drops to us. Hulk scores more,(than Scott and Foster) Granger has big potential there, Jermaine gets to go against 4's and we have Peja from the outside. We will have much less trouble scoring from here on out, and that means Jax and his questionable shot selection and low % become more troublesome.
Jackson is becoming redundant. (IMO)

Will Galen
03-06-2006, 11:59 PM
I think Freddie will pull in upwards of $6 mil per.

NO WAY!

PacerMan
03-07-2006, 12:04 AM
Fred's looking at the MLE. What is that, six years and forty million (or so)?

Peja - a little harder to guess.

Guys that are 29 don't get huge contracts anymore. This ain't 1999/2000 again, where Brian Grant and Eddie Jones and Jalen Rose and more could get absurd contracts.

If Peja gets a six-year, $65 million deal he should take it.

Too bad the Pacers now have Granger. I like Peja, but he's a rental until Danny is ready to go full-time.

We need someone at SG with Peja's skill set, but with the quickness to defend SGs.

I wouldn't mind Fred backing up *that* guy. I'd like to S&T Peja for a SG and throw-in SJax and get back a backup C.

I'd go for that too.

ChicagoJ
03-07-2006, 12:22 AM
I agree with all of that. But I hope we can sign Peja to a short term deal, even if we have to pay more per season.,


I was thinking about that as I typed it. We'd have to resign him to a long term deal and keep him only until we were convinced Danny was ready to start full time. I think it will be no later than next season's deadline. Then move him.

Arcadian
03-07-2006, 12:57 AM
I don't want to commit long term to Peja. I'm not sure that he is an all-star caliber player anymore. Looking at the Sf in the conference I can't say in two years he'll be better (and in some cases isn't as good now) than James, Pierce, Carter, Jefferson, Prince, Harrington, Butler, Andre I or most importantly Danny.

As for Jones 6 mil is too much for a backup even though I would like him to stay a Pacer.

Hicks
03-07-2006, 01:32 AM
I don't rate a player's "all-star status" soley on if they get in. To me, you can tell when a guy is worthy of getting in, regardless of if he makes the team or not.

Arcadian
03-07-2006, 02:38 AM
That's fine. But my point was I just don't see the guy as a top 3 or 4 player at SF in the Eastern Conference now and especially later and to me that is not worth a max contract.

Bball
03-07-2006, 05:00 AM
I don't see any pressing reason to do anything special for Fred. He shouldn't be a priority, and he should be allowed to see what other teams offer him and establish his market value for his services.

My guess is that some here are over-valuing him.... but there might be some teams willing to pony up some cash. If so, good for him. Take it and run.

Freddie has had some good games... he's also had some stinkers. He's also another player that has to have the ball in his hands to be effective. We can do with one less of those and we certainly don't need to break the piggy bank to keep one around.

I was watching Iverson the other day and thinking one thing that separates him and Fred is that AI always seems to know what he's going to do with the ball. He makes his pass or gets his shot off (usually it's a shot ;) ). Freddie just seems to not really have a clue what he's going to do but thinks he can use his hops and speed to 'do something'... sometimes it works. Sometimes he loses the ball in a crowd. Sometimes he gets near the basket and then has to eat the ball. Sometimes he dribbles it off his foot. And sometimes he jumps in the air with no idea what he's going to do and ends up throwing away the ball. I can expecially do without that. Certainly at the numbers some here think he can command (or will demand).

Peja, OTOH, .... he should be a priority. You can never have enough unselfish players who can move without the ball, score consistently, be fundamentally sound, keep his head and focus in games, and not be entirely one dimensional. Oh... and is a multi-time All-Star to boot. That's not a place to draw a line in the sand over player salaries. Pay the man.

-Bball

rexnom
03-07-2006, 05:48 AM
I agree with BBall assessment of Peja. Peja is going to be good for a long while. he doesn't really rely on athleticism or speed so he shouldn't decline terrible in the next six years. He'll still have that shot and that high basketball IQ. However, I too am worried about the little logjam we have at SF if we resign Peja. Danny is too good to not be starting, we know this, but we need Peja's skills too.

owl
03-07-2006, 07:52 AM
Peja, OTOH, .... he should be a priority. You can never have enough unselfish players who can move without the ball, score consistently, be fundamentally sound, keep his head and focus in games, and not be entirely one dimensional. Oh... and is a multi-time All-Star to boot. That's not a place to draw a line in the sand over player salaries. Pay the man.

-Bball
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Wurd!!!!!


By the way, what would a max contract look like for Peja?


owl

RWB
03-07-2006, 09:08 AM
Peja, OTOH, .... he should be a priority. You can never have enough unselfish players who can move without the ball, score consistently, be fundamentally sound, keep his head and focus in games, and not be entirely one dimensional. Oh... and is a multi-time All-Star to boot. That's not a place to draw a line in the sand over player salaries. Pay the man.
-Bball

Yes......

Peja is a difference maker. It's funny, when I see Peja shoot it's Reggie once again, I expect the ball to go in. I can't say that about any other Pacer. I like that feeling (that doesn't sound right, does it?) :-o

On Freddie, as others have stated, he's a backup and if offered anything more than the upper 3 mil range with normal pay increases then we need to look else where. Fred's a good citizen, but the Pacers can't repeat past mistakes.

ChicagoJ
03-07-2006, 11:07 AM
Everybody knows that I'm not usually on the Fred-wagon.

However, he's impressed me recently with his ability to step it up in the fourth quarter. He's getting that 'clutch' comfort-zone we heard about when he was drafted.

I'm still not a fan of his game for the first three quarters, but that's another story.

I think somebody will overpay for him, and frankly, they can have him.

Like Al, and like Antonio Davis, and like Stephen Jackson, he'll make a nice complimentary player on a contending team. But also like those guys, if he's higher than the fourth option then it means that team isn't very good.

He might get an opportunity to start somewhere, and frankly, he should probably take advantage of it. But the Pacers should let him walk if somebody else wants to pay him to be a starter.

Mourning
03-07-2006, 02:01 PM
I second Bball's post. It would be nice to keep him for some "decent" $$$, but I won't count on it and our real priority should be Peja.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Anthem
03-07-2006, 06:37 PM
Pay the man.
How much?

Bball
03-08-2006, 02:20 PM
How much?

Whatever the market dictates.

-Bball

Evan_The_Dude
03-08-2006, 03:38 PM
Wow, I was pretty much in disagreement with page one, then page two just flipped the script. I agree with Jay about committing less years to Peja. Though I'd love him to stay here because of what he brings us, I wouldn't bend over backwards to keep him.

The same goes for Jones, however I think Jones may be MORE important to keep because of our lack of bodies at the 2. I mean, at least if Peja walks we can replace him with Granger. Granger has shown he can step in and make some clutch plays, grab some timely offensive rebounds, and he isn't half bad shooting the ball either - and he'll only get better.

I think Freddy knows his role on the team better than anybody else not named Anthony Johnson, and unlike Peja, steps up in the 4th quarter. Plus, I think it would be nice to see our bench keep their chemistry. If Granger becomes the starting 3, we still have Croshere as a backup. At the same time we can also slide SJax to the 3 when Danny needs a breather and bring in Jones.. This would keep Jones getting his starter minutes as a backup.

We could easily pick up another swingman in the draft or through free agency.

I love what Peja is doing for us, I'd love for him to stay, but don't go overboard trying to keep him. After all, we've all seen what Granger can do when given big minutes.

Moses
03-08-2006, 03:48 PM
If Fred ever learned to use both hands and shoot with both hands he could be a dominant guard. Until he learns to dribble with that left hand and stops going right, I can't really say what hes going to be. I mean, He has flashes of complete brilliance and is a definite energy guy who can get the building standing up with a single dunk. If wouldn't be surprised to see teams offer him a 6 million per contract and I actually think thats what hes going to get from someone somewhere...and I unlike most think he could actually live up to a contract like that with alot of practice.

And in my opinion, the Peja and Granger talk is a bit premature. We need to see how each of them play with JO before we asess anything. I think Peja compliments JO alot more then Danger does, but I also feel that Danger could be an all-star in a few years. Almost a Marionesque type of guy whos willing to get down and dirty on defense and rebounding.

Mordecaii
03-08-2006, 04:07 PM
I see a lot of people saying that Peja is more of a priority than Jones and that we should let Jones walk... So I'm going to ask some tough questions.

1. With Granger here, and assuming we're going to sign him to a long-term deal for some decent money, do we want two SF's signed to a hefty contract?

2. If we get rid of Fred, who do we have as a backup? Please don't say players like AJ or Saras, our team would tank with them as the backup for the 2 spot.

3. If we get rid of Fred, who is our slasher/playmaker in the second unit? Who brings the energy? Who isn't a spot-up shooter?

4. If we get rid of Fred, who could we possibly sign for a lower amount of money that would bring comparable results to what Fred brings?

The problem as I see it is that we don't really have a good enough starting unit to put up enough points so the bench isn't necessary. You look at a team like Detroit, and their starters score so many points that the bench isn't as important and it can be filled with roleplayers. Unfortunately, our team isn't the same and we need our bench production to go anywhere.

I really want to keep both Fred and Peja. A lot of people seem to have selective memories, but Fred has really contributed in quite a few recent games and been our #1 option in the 4th quarter. Anyone remember the 31 point game? Remember a couple games ago when he had like 12 points in the 4th? Remember a couple games ago when he drove to the basket and got fouled at least twice in the 4th to hold off a run by the other team? Fred brings scoring, slashing ability, a decent three point shot, and some ball-handling skills to the table. I'd have to rate him as one of the better backups in the league at the 2 spot. Really, he brings something that no one else on the team does, which is the ability to drive into the paint instead of backing his man down like everyone else has to do since they're not quick enough (with the possible exception of JT and MAYBE Granger).

So before we start saying that we should get rid of one or both, look at our other options and tell me how they're better.

PacerMan
03-08-2006, 05:09 PM
I don't see any pressing reason to do anything special for Fred. He shouldn't be a priority, and he should be allowed to see what other teams offer him and establish his market value for his services.

My guess is that some here are over-valuing him.... but there might be some teams willing to pony up some cash. If so, good for him. Take it and run.

Freddie has had some good games... he's also had some stinkers. He's also another player that has to have the ball in his hands to be effective. We can do with one less of those and we certainly don't need to break the piggy bank to keep one around.

I was watching Iverson the other day and thinking one thing that separates him and Fred is that AI always seems to know what he's going to do with the ball. He makes his pass or gets his shot off (usually it's a shot ;) ). Freddie just seems to not really have a clue what he's going to do but thinks he can use his hops and speed to 'do something'... sometimes it works. Sometimes he loses the ball in a crowd. Sometimes he gets near the basket and then has to eat the ball. Sometimes he dribbles it off his foot. And sometimes he jumps in the air with no idea what he's going to do and ends up throwing away the ball. I can expecially do without that. Certainly at the numbers some here think he can command (or will demand).

Peja, OTOH, .... he should be a priority. You can never have enough unselfish players who can move without the ball, score consistently, be fundamentally sound, keep his head and focus in games, and not be entirely one dimensional. Oh... and is a multi-time All-Star to boot. That's not a place to draw a line in the sand over player salaries. Pay the man.

-Bball


Yeh, Fred can do that.
He can also do something that you don't seem to realize. Create his own shot. And we don't have MANY that can do that AT ALL. Jackson SOMETIMES. Jermaine a little bit, uh,,,, that's about it. That's a HIGHLY prized commodity in the NBA. You can't have too many playmakers. Freddie is one of ours, and that makes him more valuable than you realize.
I like Peja, but THIS team is full of unselfish players THAT CAN"T CREATE A SHOT TO SAVE THEIR LIFE.
There's a reason Peja doesn't score in the 4th quarter. One our Sacramento visitors told us about before he got here.
He's good, but he's not worth anything CLOSE to max money. And we've got someone that's going to be a better all around player VERY SOON behind him.
Don't pay the man.

PacerMan
03-08-2006, 05:11 PM
I agree with BBall assessment of Peja. Peja is going to be good for a long while. he doesn't really rely on athleticism or speed so he shouldn't decline terrible in the next six years. He'll still have that shot and that high basketball IQ. However, I too am worried about the little logjam we have at SF if we resign Peja. Danny is too good to not be starting, we know this, but we need Peja's skills too.


Sign and trade Peja and Jax for the shooting TWO guard we need.
Danny must play.
Next year.

PacerMan
03-08-2006, 05:13 PM
I see a lot of people saying that Peja is more of a priority than Jones and that we should let Jones walk... So I'm going to ask some tough questions.

1. With Granger here, and assuming we're going to sign him to a long-term deal for some decent money, do we want two SF's signed to a hefty contract?

2. If we get rid of Fred, who do we have as a backup? Please don't say players like AJ or Saras, our team would tank with them as the backup for the 2 spot.

3. If we get rid of Fred, who is our slasher/playmaker in the second unit? Who brings the energy? Who isn't a spot-up shooter?

4. If we get rid of Fred, who could we possibly sign for a lower amount of money that would bring comparable results to what Fred brings?

The problem as I see it is that we don't really have a good enough starting unit to put up enough points so the bench isn't necessary. You look at a team like Detroit, and their starters score so many points that the bench isn't as important and it can be filled with roleplayers. Unfortunately, our team isn't the same and we need our bench production to go anywhere.

I really want to keep both Fred and Peja. A lot of people seem to have selective memories, but Fred has really contributed in quite a few recent games and been our #1 option in the 4th quarter. Anyone remember the 31 point game? Remember a couple games ago when he had like 12 points in the 4th? Remember a couple games ago when he drove to the basket and got fouled at least twice in the 4th to hold off a run by the other team? Fred brings scoring, slashing ability, a decent three point shot, and some ball-handling skills to the table. I'd have to rate him as one of the better backups in the league at the 2 spot. Really, he brings something that no one else on the team does, which is the ability to drive into the paint instead of backing his man down like everyone else has to do since they're not quick enough (with the possible exception of JT and MAYBE Granger).

So before we start saying that we should get rid of one or both, look at our other options and tell me how they're better.

Wurd..

Pacerized
03-08-2006, 09:04 PM
I agree with all of that. But I hope we can sign Peja to a short term deal, even if we have to pay more per season.,

That would be ideal, but I don't see it happening. At 29 he knows this is his last chance at a big contract, he'd never get another shot at a long term contract if he settles for short term now. I'm for the long term deal if we can weigh it more towards the start of the contract. Anything that averages more then 10 mil per year, and I think we should do a sign, and trade.