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Anthem
03-06-2006, 12:43 AM
Man, this kid is good. I'm amazed at how far he's come, and how fast. I wish he came down with a few more rebounds, but overall I can't argue with the results he's giving. Talk about the steal of the draft. What's really amazing is how each different part of his game has improved. Conditioning? Check. Focus and mental toughness? Check. Post game? Check. Not fouling? Check. Clearing space? Always there.

So here's where we get into some questions. First, is David the ideal complement to Jermaine O'Neal? We used to say that Brad Miller was the ideal complement, because he's a high-post center to go with a low-post Jermaine. I'm starting to wonder, though, if it's not Jermaine that would be better in the high post, with David in the low post. Even with the extra weight, JO is both strong and mobile. He does a good job of moving with the ball, and at this point his jumper is often more reliable than his 1-on-3 postup. Plus, decreased time in the post means decreased wear and tear, the Jermaine gets too much wear and tear as it is.

Second question has already been asked, but can be again: Just how good is this kid going to be? Will we be able to keep him? How far can he go? Will he become an elite center in the league?

Final question: what are the areas where he needs the most work? This isn't a bash against the Hulk, it's an opportunity for honest assessment. He's not perfect, but he has the potential to be pretty special. What needs to happen for him to reach his potential? Two big areas are FT shooting and rebounding, but what else?

Your thoughts? Don't feel like you have to answer all three questions. Pick one or make up your own.

Arcadian
03-06-2006, 01:12 AM
I'm really looking forward for JO's return to see how they mesh. I think it will be great having JO at his natural position.

I love his size, the way he eats up space, and his agressiveness--he doesn't play soft.

I don't know about elite center but he can be a true center which is just as rare in the NBA now.

Suaveness
03-06-2006, 01:16 AM
Mental toughness is not quite there, but it is getting better. It helps that he is getting time to play, and that he isn't treated as a rookie anymore.

Peck
03-06-2006, 01:29 AM
I say this in all seriousness & without smiling.

It is up to David Harrison how good he becomes.

I honestly believe that he can be a star in 3-4 years. Tell me who is big enough & strong enough to stop him from going from where he wants to go? Shaq at one time could stop him but in 3-4 years Shaq will either be out of the league or less than 1/8 of the player he is now.

Eddy Curry is big enough but in all honesty he is just not motivated enough & I will go ahead & say it, he is not good enough to stop David.

That is a total change for me because I used to think Eddy would be something & he may still be but he is not going to be as good as David is.

David has it all he has a soft touch, a big wide body, strength, leaping ability, timing shot blocking & low post moves.

He needs to make sure that he is always aggressive on the glass but I still beleive in 3-4 years he will be a good rebounder, not a great one but a good one.

It's all up to him. If he can maintain his composure & make sure he keeps himself in shape & continue to learn his craft I think he will be the best center in the NBA.

CableKC
03-06-2006, 01:37 AM
I was thinking of this while watching Harrison play against a weaker frontcourt like the one Philly had......since most of his offense is in the low-post.....I'm thinking that it may not be too difficult to transition from getting the ball to Harrison to a more competent ball-handler in JONeal.

Its clear that he is far more confident as long as he knows that he will be used in the offense and ( I think ) more importantly that the ball is get to the right place for him. Its all based off of mismatch and where on the court he is most comfortable with.

I still think he has to work on keeping his emotions in check where I think he complains or pouts about a call to the ref more often then not.....but I have seen some improvement as he is either fouling less players and/or Carlisle is confident in keeping him in the game.

Merz
03-06-2006, 01:38 AM
He needs to make sure that he is always aggressive on the glass but I still beleive in 3-4 years he will be a good rebounder, not a great one but a good one.

I expect Granger to be a great rebounder (atleast for a small forward) within those years. So being just a good, decent rebounder may be all the team needs of Harrison in the future. As long as he provides a low post presence on both sides of the court, as well.

waterjater
03-06-2006, 02:00 AM
Harrison has been awesome lately. I love his no fear style and I like that he's taking his frustration out on the opponent vs. the refs lately.

He made Webber look foolish and scared a few times. Webber looked up, saw him and decided better of taking it to the hoop.

A game changer....and that is what we need at center!

Water

CableKC
03-06-2006, 02:08 AM
During the game....I saw Harrison standing next to Dalembert....the Sixers' Starting Center. Although Harrison may only be a inch or so taller then him.....Harrison was huge next to him....cuz he is wide and takes up physical space....and that is what he brings to the court.......his sheer size.

It was noted by someone that Harrison should make a difference against the Pistons. I think that he will be....but I think the Refs will favor the likes of the Wallace's brothers over Harrison.

I also think that Carlisle and the rest of the team has to know when to get the ball to him.....when there is a clear mismatch in favor of Harrison...and when NOT to get the ball to him....when there is a very solid PF/C defender that is covering him ( like when Sheed was covering him in the Piston's game ).

Suaveness
03-06-2006, 02:20 AM
I think he looks a lot leaner than he did last year. Good of him.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
03-06-2006, 02:49 AM
Hulk looked great today, especially in the first half. I havent really got to see him play much, especially since hes been playing well, and I must say I was very impressed. There is deffinitely a lot of potential in this kid. During the game, I found myself wishing Rick would go to him more, especially during the scoring droughts we went through in the second half. I thought both Hulk and Peja should have gotten more shots.

Ive read a lot of what people have said about him so I kind of new what to expect from him. But a couple things stood out that really grabbed my attention.

First he is really athletic and very mobile. I wasnt expecting this from a guy his size. Dare I say it he almost looks like a very young Shaq? I know im jumping the gun a bit and Im probably gonna catch heat for saying that. Also, I think the athleticism is part of the reason he gets a lot of fouls, hes all over the place and a guy that size moving with that much speed has a lot of momentum. But his athleticism is a good thing. He was awesome on the help D today (that AI block that kept getting replayed was great!). I also thought he played better one-on-one D against CWebb then Foster and Pollard did.

Second, he has an exceptionally soft touch for such a big guy. His offensive skills are already developed far more than what I had first thought. Two plays that stood out to me were when he drove from the top of the key, and also hit a jumper from up there. I wasnt really aware he could do either of those things.

And as for the lack of rebounds on his stat line, it didnt really stand out to me in the game. I mean it didnt seem like we were getting out-rebounded when he was in the game. In fact I noticed Hulk was doing a pretty-good job boxing out, and I think he just focused on holding back the Sixers big men and creating space so other Pacers could get the boards, that was fine by me.

skyfire
03-06-2006, 03:09 AM
Good thread Anthem. Hulk can improve on rebounding no doubt, but the amount of space he clears out should make it much easier for athletic rebounders like JO, Foster and Granger to monster the boards.

I'd love to see JO playing at the high post, much like Duncan does. Duncan never camps down on the low block, he usually cuts across the key just before the post entry is made and makes a quick move, which makes it much harder to double on him. By having JO at the high post, shooters on the wings like Peja, Granger and Jax, it would form a much more balanced offense and put our players in positions which play to their strengths.

How good can Hulk become? 15pts 7boards 1-2blocks would be a fantastic contribution and doesn't seem unrealistic if continues to improve steadily. Given the lack of true Centers in the East, those would almost be allstar numbers.

Moses
03-06-2006, 06:25 AM
I have been very impressed with him lately both offensively and defensively. I think he still needs another 3 years or so before he will truely reach his potential because even though he has worked on his conditioning, it still needs even more work. As someone else as said, he should probably be able to grab more rebounds even if he is boxing out in the lane. Other then that though, I almost think the sky is the limit. Not many guys in the NBA have Davids size at center other then Shaq pretty much. He wont be as good as Shaq is but I think he could turn into a 20-10 guy one day if he works at it. That's being extremely optimistic though...but the guy is good.

Jumper
03-06-2006, 08:28 AM
Gotta agree with most of what has been said about David. As he continues to mature as a player one area that most big men lack is the passing game. If him and Oneal are gonna be a high low combo, it will really depend on Hulk's ability to pass out of the post. I would love to see this happen so we can keep Jermaine healthy and productive.

Skaut_Ech
03-06-2006, 08:47 AM
Its clear that he is far more confident as long as he knows that he will be used in the offense and ( I think ) more importantly that the ball is get to the right place for him. Its all based off of mismatch and where on the court he is most comfortable with.

I still think he has to work on keeping his emotions in check where I think he complains or pouts about a call to the ref more often then not.....but I have seen some improvement as he is either fouling less players and/or Carlisle is confident in keeping him in the game.

Cable, I think what you said is key: his confident being linked to being used. I admit. I've waivered from time to time on David. I see the whining. I see his being out of shape early in the season. I saw a stunted learning curve. But I'm starting to think he's going to push through it. :grinyes:

Like Peck said, I think he'll be as good as he wants to be. I'll be honest. I still don't know where David's head is and just how much basketball smarts he has. Although I love his promise, in reality, I have waffled between wondering if David was going to be another Olowokandi or a bigger Elton Brand-type player. :chin2: :goodevil:

In an era of finesse centers, undersized forwards playing center, etc, David (along with Krstic, Curry, Diop and Bogut) can help usher in a new era of low post, BIG men. I think if the coaching staff pays proper attention to him, both Xs and Os and psychologically, he may become one of the top five centers in the game.


So here's where we get into some questions. First, is David the ideal complement to Jermaine O'Neal? We used to say that Brad Miller was the ideal complement, because he's a high-post center to go with a low-post Jermaine. I'm starting to wonder, though, if it's not Jermaine that would be better in the high post, with David in the low post. Even with the extra weight, JO is both strong and mobile. He does a good job of moving with the ball, and at this point his jumper is often more reliable than his 1-on-3 postup. Plus, decreased time in the post means decreased wear and tear, the Jermaine gets too much wear and tear as it is.

Second question has already been asked, but can be again: Just how good is this kid going to be? Will we be able to keep him? How far can he go? Will he become an elite center in the league?

Final question: what are the areas where he needs the most work? This isn't a bash against the Hulk, it's an opportunity for honest assessment. He's not perfect, but he has the potential to be pretty special. What needs to happen for him to reach his potential? Two big areas are FT shooting and rebounding, but what else?

1. I don't see JO as a low post guy. It's part of the reason I get irritated with him. I think of JO more like a Chris Webber type. So, along those lines, I think David is/should be a low post threat and a nice compliment to JO, who's a mid range jumper shooter who can drive the line, as opposed to a camp in the post, get out of the way and let me work type, like David should be.

2. See above.

3. Three. David needs to do only two things. Learn effective big man footwork (i.e, learn an effective drop step. So many low posts moves have a foundation in a good drop step, from Kareem, to Hakeem, to Shaq.) and learn to use his size, along with smarts to be a threat on the boards. The reason I say " a threat" is because some guys rebounds and some guys make the other team pay physically, whether they get the rebound or not. Fortson and Ben Wallace come to mind. So much of David game would flourish if he built on those two things, imho.

RWB
03-06-2006, 09:07 AM
I want to say thank you Ron Artest.....Why?

I think David is finally getting it. It hasn't been easy and there's still work to be done, but after seeing Ron's melt downs and what can happen I think Hulk is really trying. The biggest complaint for him coming out of college was attitude, followed by aleged lazy tendencies.

The experts predicted if he could get those things changed back in college he would be a lottery pick. Looks like things may have fallen into place for the Ps after all.

Kegboy
03-06-2006, 01:26 PM
Anthem, I've been debating the high-post, low-post question for a while now. The special part of Brad wasn't his ability to spread the floor, but his passing. If, for example, we'd been able to keep Primoz, I don't think he'd have complimented JO nearly as well, even though he's every much the shooter Brad is.

David's a wide body, which alone is a tremendous feat to us Pacers fans (unless you remember the glorious 3 weeks Oliver Miller was here, of course, or the heyday of Hot Plate :chuckle: ). The question really comes down to what we're really going to run when JO comes back. If we do stay up-tempo, Harrison's presence would open the door to JO losing some of that bulk he's put on, and return to the more athletic player he was under Isiah.

Peck
03-06-2006, 01:55 PM
Anthem, I've been debating the high-post, low-post question for a while now. The special part of Brad wasn't his ability to spread the floor, but his passing. If, for example, we'd been able to keep Primoz, I don't think he'd have complimented JO nearly as well, even though he's every much the shooter Brad is.

David's a wide body, which alone is a tremendous feat to us Pacers fans (unless you remember the glorious 3 weeks Oliver Miller was here, of course, or the heyday of Hot Plate :chuckle: ). The question really comes down to what we're really going to run when JO comes back. If we do stay up-tempo, Harrison's presence would open the door to JO losing some of that bulk he's put on, and return to the more athletic player he was under Isiah.


Man I loved John Williams!!!!! But then again I was a big Adrian Caldwell fan as well.

Oh & for people like me Oliver Miller was our hero.:blush:

Anthem
03-06-2006, 02:02 PM
I thought about the fact that passing is really the most important thing in the high post.

The funny thing is that I don't think Jermaine's a bad passer when he faces the basket. It's just that when he's in the post, he thinks about scoring instead of passing.

Can anybody think of times when Jermaine has had the ball in the high post? Can he become a high post player?

waxman
03-06-2006, 02:39 PM
I think he'd like the high post... he loves those elbow jumpers. JO and Peja could be deadly playing off of each other in the way CWebb and Vlade did. JO may not be as adept of passer....but he's good enough and would get better.

ChicagoJ
03-06-2006, 02:46 PM
Ever since I began declaring JO to be a dominant low post player, he's shown that he wants to play the high post and baseline more often.

I'm looking forward to the day that JO and David can just alternate turns in the low post (a la Parish and McHale).

+ + + + + + + + +

I haven't done this yet this week:

I :love: Harrison.

Raskolnikov
03-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Just saw the Wizards game. What a 4th quarter by DH!

He played through a lot of pain. And after the fall on his last basket I was under the impression he had to keep himself from crying there for a while.

I think David Harrison is gonna be one of the key factors for the Pacers in the playoffs. If he plays at his best, we will give the Pistons a serious run for their money.

Pacesetter
03-06-2006, 04:39 PM
His poise and steadiness are my two biggest concerns. Hopefully he just concentrates on the game, and getting better each day. He's got loads of fans to celebrate his accomplishments as he gets better and better!!!!

Go Big Dave!!!! :cool:

Kegboy
03-06-2006, 04:53 PM
I thought about the fact that passing is really the most important thing in the high post.

The funny thing is that I don't think Jermaine's a bad passer when he faces the basket. It's just that when he's in the post, he thinks about scoring instead of passing.

Can anybody think of times when Jermaine has had the ball in the high post? Can he become a high post player?

He played some in the idyllic days of "The Quick", but as I remember things would break down because his passing wasn't good enough. But really, it only worked for Brad, cause he was smart enough to see what our wings were doing as opposed to what they were supposed to be doing, i.e., Al and Ron kept breaking the offense and wouldn't run the shuffle cuts.

I keep racking my brain to try and figure out what Rick's gonna run next year, assuming we have the same roster. We can't run UCLA cause none of our Big's can pass well. I wish I had some tape of KMart back in NJ, to compare and contrast how he fit in the Princeton they ran. I could see us going with some Hawk sets, but that's only if Jack is still around to post from the 2. Of course, Rick can always put Jermaine at shooting guard. :laugh: :uhoh: :suicide:

Anthem
03-06-2006, 05:46 PM
Of course, Rick can always put Jermaine at shooting guard. :laugh: :uhoh: :suicide:
Don't even joke about that.

skyfire
03-06-2006, 09:40 PM
Of course, Rick can always put Jermaine at shooting guard. :laugh: :uhoh: :suicide:

Next years allstar game? It would be pretty funny to see JO doing a Reggie impersonation, running off screens, kicking his legs out to draw fouls, catch and shoot 3pters.

Pacers#1Fan
03-06-2006, 10:13 PM
David is like Shaq's little brother, he will never be as good but he is just as big and very solid. He will have a great future when he starts to pull down some more boards and stay away from fouls. He can get up a little better than Shaq, sadly his free throw % resembles that of Shaq.

pizza guy
03-06-2006, 10:17 PM
Gotta agree with most of what has been said about David. As he continues to mature as a player one area that most big men lack is the passing game. If him and Oneal are gonna be a high low combo, it will really depend on Hulk's ability to pass out of the post. I would love to see this happen so we can keep Jermaine healthy and productive.

I agree on the passing aspect, he does need to be a good passer to work well with JO. But, OTOH, the only time Hulk would be passing is when the defense has shut off his line to the hoop (which doesn't happen often) and he has to go back outside. IMO, JO should remain a No. 1 option, but be able to pass IN to David when need be. The 3-4-5 combo of Granger, JO, and Hulk has the potential to be a freakishly good combo, alond the lines of Detroit's in a couple years when the younger guys have matured and grown accustomed to the NBA and adapted their playing styles to the system.

Harrison has taken large steps in the regards of conditioning, focus, mental toughness, making good decisions, and staying out of foul trouble. I've been very impressed with Harrison every time I see him play. He can be as good as TPTB let him be. He has all the potential to do great things, and if RC, JO, the PGs and whoever else handle his abilities the right way, there is no reason for Hulk to not be a dominating center. He has size, athleticism, touch, and from how I've seen him improve this season - the desire to be good. That combonation does not come around often, and the Pacers need to hold on to this kid and let him grow into the great player he can be.

Anthem
03-06-2006, 10:21 PM
He played some in the idyllic days of "The Quick", but as I remember things would break down because his passing wasn't good enough. But really, it only worked for Brad, cause he was smart enough to see what our wings were doing as opposed to what they were supposed to be doing, i.e., Al and Ron kept breaking the offense and wouldn't run the shuffle cuts.
Well, maybe we should trade for KG. That would solve the problem, right?

SoupIsGood
03-07-2006, 04:02 PM
:rockon: WHAT A THREAD!!! :rockon:


So did he play great again? I couldn't watch the game Sunday :cry:



Go Hulk!

:harrison:


:proud:

Anthem
03-07-2006, 05:44 PM
So did he play great again? I couldn't watch the game Sunday :cry:
He rocked.