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Peck
03-05-2006, 05:15 PM
Look I'm not going to rain on our parade today because anytime you get a win, in particular against a Conferance rival in a tight playoff race, it's a good thing.

However I want to point to some very very troubling things I saw at the end of this game.

For the last 5 plays of the game, other than that last inbounds play, we reverted to clear out isolation basketball. Now it's one thing to see J.O. or even our other former player go one on one while the other four players ran to the other side of the floor, it is another thing altogether to see A.J., Fred or Jax do it.

It does NOT work & it ended with several empty possesions.

I am amazed at how often Carlisle reverts to this crap in the last min. of a game, well no I'm not because it is exactly what he wants. It controls the clock.

However how many three point shots with 3 seconds left on the shot clock did we see in that last quarter?

Also again I want to say it, we have got to get a big man on the team. Today Harrison had to play beyond his ability to impact (thanks Jay) a game because he was worn out by the middle of the fourth.

If Cro is ready to go for Tuesdays game then let it go but if he can't go we have got to get somebody in here. My biggest fear is that Pollard will go down with an injury.

Jax just didn't have it going from the field today but I never felt like he was forcing it. So while he was hidious from the field I didn't have a problem with his shooting. But I thought he played to many min., again another reason why we need another big man on the floor so Granger can go back to playing the three where he belongs.

Speaking of Harrison, 31 min & 3 rebounds????? Not gonna do big fella. He was great from the floor & he blocked some shots & played solid D but he has got to control the paint.

As to the entire announcing crew let me say this. I used to be able to tolerate Walton because I understood that it was all schtick with him, but of late he has become nothing more than a cartoon character of himself. It's like whenever he is announcing he is not announcing a game but is recording a voice over for some EA sports game.

I was stunned though to listen to Musburger lay it down about Iverson & how he shouldn't be on the Olympics.

Thank God Saras hit those shots because other than that he sucked. It was so bad that the announcers were even pointing out that Philly was intentionally going at him every time they had the ball & they were using pressure defense on him whenever he was dribbling.

However he was money from the floor so that helped a huge amount.

I'm sorry I don't want to sound like a huge downer today but I feel more like we lucked into a victory than I feel that we won a hard fought victory.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 05:18 PM
I thought the Pacers played a terrible game, I posted in another thread, that this was the worst the Pacers have played all season in a win.

Yes Saras was awful today, he was a turnover waiting to happen all game.


Bad game by the Pacers today.

Brent, Bill and Snapper might as well have been announcing the game from my basement, because they really did not pay any attention to the game.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 05:24 PM
Peck, in all fariness, AJ was on fire in the second half and he had no problems shooting right over Iverson. So I think going to AJ late in the game was a good move. We can argue about the way they went to AJ if you want, but AJ was the logical player to go to

Peck
03-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Peck, in all fariness, AJ was on fire in the second half and he had no problems shooting right over Iverson. So I think going to AJ late in the game was a good move. We can argue about the way they went to AJ if you want, but AJ was the logical player to go to


I have zero problem going to A.J., that was never the point.

My entire problem was that he once again chose to go to the weak side isolation where it gives us zero chance at an offensive rebound, only gives us a shot if the player can get one up or leaves us with some desperation three with little to no time left on the clock.

We ran that play over & over so I know it was Rick, not the players choosing to go that rought.

I just had a bad vision of the future because I am now very much afraid that all of this free flowing offense with good rebounding & ball movement will come to a screaching halt when J.O. comes back & I am now thinking it won't even be J.O.'s fault. Cause over the past 3-4 games I've seen us go back to this more & more.

So again, I have no problem going to A.J. I just hate the play we ran to get it.

SarunasJ3
03-05-2006, 05:40 PM
Why dose everyone always hate on Sarunas.Hes a great player and i think he should start.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 05:45 PM
Why dose everyone always hate on Sarunas.Hes a great player and i think he should start.




Too many turnovers and shaky passes

Peck
03-05-2006, 05:49 PM
Why dose everyone always hate on Sarunas.Hes a great player and i think he should start.


??????

I just reported what the ABC commentators were saying. I would say ABC is neutral towards most players, although like all networks they tend to jock the superstars more than they should.

They were only reporting what they saw. They saw the same thing anybody who watched the game saw.

Saras was great from the field but he couldn't break the press & he couldn't defend thier guards.

piksi
03-05-2006, 05:49 PM
Too many turnovers and shaky passes

all sorts of defensive allergies

D-BONE
03-05-2006, 05:50 PM
Too many turnovers and shaky passes

Sounds like the entire Pacer team today. We've gotta get these turnovers under control. We've gotta be able to handle these teams that have the personnel to really pressure the ball outside.

FrenchConnection
03-05-2006, 05:51 PM
Why dose everyone always hate on Sarunas.Hes a great player and i think he should start.



I have tried all day not to respond to Saras' man-love posters, but this is too much. I am "hating" on Saras because his defense is so bad that the Sixers changed their entire game plan to exploit his weaknesses. He is not a great player, not even a good one right now. At least he shot the ball well.

On the game: Something hockey fans seem to understand better than basketball fans is that good teams need to be able to win games when they don't play well. For instance, the Sabres won in Boston last night even though they were completly outplayed in the first and third period. However, they found a way to win the game and after the game the guys on the post-game show were saying that it is a sign that the team is really good that they can win a game like that. I have to say the all the isolation at the end of the game bothered me too, but the Sixers did a really good job with pressure defense at the end of the game making passes difficult. However, WE WON THE GAME!! Remember that fact above all else. In fact, this is the only game that came down the final play that I can remember us wining all year. So in that respect, this was a great win, one that they can build on becuase they found a way to win an ugly game.

Kestas
03-05-2006, 06:05 PM
Because he cant play defense and he couldnt handle a full court press today..........

if he was so suxors, then why did he play in the end? NBA com shows it was him with the final assist (I totally missed this game). however, today he played almost two times less than Johnson. his constantly varying role and no certainty about anything whatsoever isn't helping his game imho.
but who cares.. they won.
next year he'll be starting anyways (probably ;)). I wonder who will be traded sooner - AJ or Tinsley. or both at the same time ;)

or maybe Saras will go to Bobcats ;) or to Barcelona (I would deffinitely prefer the latter)

Kegboy
03-05-2006, 06:18 PM
It just occured to me, no wonder Philly went at Cabbage. Remember the Korver play back in November. :blush:

larry
03-05-2006, 06:19 PM
^ the nba is like a ruth chris steak and barcelona is like the cheese paper left from a hardee`s 2 for 3.

8.9_seconds
03-05-2006, 06:19 PM
I remember saying that Sarunas was very likeable, I've somewhat changed my mind on that. He kind of bothers me now. He is good, but he is not the spectacular player I've heard of. I don't know if he's adjusting to our style or what, but he is not a starter. Not yet anyway. I would never EVER start sarunas over AJ until he realizes the importance of defense in the NBA.

With that said...

Runi is an EXCELLENT shooter and he has the potential to be the most dazzling assist man on our team, he just isn't starting material.



PS-and whenever you say that a team has handled you wrong, and you would have rather gone to another team that would have treated you better, people tend to be hostile towards you.

Kegboy
03-05-2006, 06:27 PM
if he was so suxors, then why did he play in the end?

Becaue he inbounded from the sideline, and even Bill Walton knows (since he said it about 10 times) that the inbounder is the most dangerous position on the court, so we wanted a good shooter there. I find it funny that that was counted as an assist, since Jack caught the ball at the elbow and dribbled in for a layup. :confused:

An aside for RATS vets. All of a sudden all these CBKs are reminding me of Writerman.

Jermaniac
03-05-2006, 06:27 PM
if he was so suxors, then why did he play in the end? NBA com shows it was him with the final assist (I totally missed this game). however, today he played almost two times less than Johnson. his constantly varying role and no certainty about anything whatsoever isn't helping his game imho.
but who cares.. they won.
next year he'll be starting anyways (probably ;)). I wonder who will be traded sooner - AJ or Tinsley. or both at the same time ;)

or maybe Saras will go to Bobcats ;) or to Barcelona (I would deffinitely prefer the latter)He played the last 4 seconds because they wanted him to throw the ball in.

Yall wonder why Rick doesnt start him and why people hate him? We hate him because he isnt good. 2 times today he came into the game with a 8 point lead and both times the Sixers went right at him on offense and scored everytime. He made John Salmons look like Vince Carter. Korver posted him up 4times and scored everytime. Not to mention that he cant dribble the ball for more then 5 feet.

larry
03-05-2006, 06:27 PM
The French Connection is right a win when you don't play well is good. However, I would be gunning for home court because any series will be brutal. (Based on these last 2.) Let us pray J.O. brings us up a notch.

Anthem
03-05-2006, 06:33 PM
Hey Peck, I'm watching the game right now.

On the one hand, you're right. 3 rebounds is far too few for Harrison. On the other hand, I've seen several times where Harrison drew the loose ball foul when he sealed an opponent off. We got the ball because of that, along with an extra foul putting the opponent closer to the penalty.

So I'm not disagreeing with you; he needs to get more rebounds. But he had several rebounding plays that didn't show up on the box score.

Lithfan
03-05-2006, 06:34 PM
Becaue he inbounded from the sideline, and even Bill Walton knows (since he said it about 10 times) that the inbounder is the most dangerous position on the court, so we wanted a good shooter there. I find it funny that that was counted as an assist, since Jack caught the ball at the elbow and dribbled in for a layup. :confused:

An aside for RATS vets. All of a sudden all these CBKs are reminding me of Writerman.

Kegboy you :darkness:

You thought you can get away with saying CBK instead of Cabbage Patch Kids???

Are you questioning my intelligence...:laugh:

Edti: Oops may be i'm wrong otherwise what the B in CBK stands for? (Or may be thats what you intended but you were wrong?)

Anthem
03-05-2006, 06:34 PM
All of a sudden all these CBKs are reminding me of Writerman.
Hey, maybe I missed it, but what's a CBK?

Kegboy
03-05-2006, 06:40 PM
Yeah, I spelled it wrong. Between this and calling Sun "Jin", I think I've come down with UncleBuck disease. :blush:

Lithfan
03-05-2006, 06:44 PM
Yeah, I spelled it wrong. Between this and calling Sun "Jin", I think I've come down with UncleBuck disease. :blush:

So I wouldnt get my PhD for nothing :laugh:

Now tell me who is Writerman. (not really)

Anthem
03-05-2006, 06:52 PM
Now tell me who is Writerman. (not really)
A particularly opinionated "contributer" from the Indystar days.

I actually liked writerman most of the time, but the guy had a deep-seated bucket of inner rage that sloshed all over the place. Besides Sass-an, I've never met a man that picked so many fights.

denyfizle
03-05-2006, 06:58 PM
The Carlisle play calling is my only concern. I mean, yeah we should expect the best from our team every game, but cmon?! Seriously!!! How many teams in the NBA would still be playing this well had their top 2 players been removed from their team and more than 60% of their payroll not suiting up to play for more than a month now?? We need some more sunshine brigaders in Pacerland. Great win!!!

BBALL56HACKER
03-05-2006, 07:31 PM
SARUNAS is a decent player that doesn`t get the right respect. A least 2 passes were made to a spot that a player was suppose to cut but either broke the play off ( or did not roll after the pick.) Say what you want about his defence he doesn`t get beat any more than A.J. IVERSON scored against A.J. any time he wanted to.(there is not to many people that can stop A.I.) Switch the 2 players line up spots and SAR. could put up the numbers with the starters (he showed that against WASH.) over judging him with the 2nd unit players-or should we say some 3rd string players- is not really fair. I would rather have a player on the floor who trys hard than a player like JACKSON who spends time arguing with officials than getting back on defence and puts extra pressure on the 4 players to cover up for him.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
03-05-2006, 07:46 PM
I have said before that I thought it was unfair that everyone except Sarunas have gotten a chance to prove themselves.

But after todays game I can see why a lot of people hate on him. He was HORRIBLE today. I think even the haters here are being too lenient on him today. During the two stretches he played today, he was completely dominated on both sides of the court. He couldnt handle any defensive pressure put on him, and he couldnt defend anyone on the other end.

All of the Euro fanboys here say that Sarunas needs to have the ball in his hands and be able to run the team like he did in the Euroleague. Im sorry but today he showed that he cant run the offense at all when given the chance. Everytime he brought the ball up court he got trapped and nearly turned over the ball with a bad pass, or he did turn it over. Let me list the things he did bad today:
- bad ball-handling
- bad passing
- bad defense
- bad court leadership

Now let me list the good things
- good shooting

Now I have been somewhat a supporter of Sarunas up until now, but after todays game I think he needs a LOT of work. Everytime he came in the team just fell apart and I prayed for AJ's return.

On a side note, I thought it was bad coaching when Philly repeatedly posted Korver up against Saras, and Rick didnt have anyone come over to provide some help defense. That was an obvious mismatch for Saras so I forgive him for getting owned by Korver.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 07:51 PM
It just occured to me, no wonder Philly went at Cabbage. Remember the Korver play back in November. :blush:


Yes I remember that, the problem is Saras is still doing similar things. Friday night he did the same thing and allowed Delonte West to get a few open shots

Sirius
03-05-2006, 08:08 PM
I've got to say, AJ really impressed me today. I guess he has been impressing me for awhile, but after the beginning of the season I was really biased against him. If he can keep it up, I will really start supporting the guy. Right now, I think he's really sparking alot of our wins, but for some reason I still need a little longer to fully accept him as our starter. Harrison, although he wasn't getting the boards, looked pretty damn good on offense today and had some nice defensive plays as well. I think alot of people really discount the fact that we're playing without our superstar JO as well as another starter (potentially 2 starters). Imagine philly without iverson. I really can't wait for JO to come back, and I hope its soon bc if he can get worked into the system before playoff time, we could be a scary team.

BBALL56HACKER
03-05-2006, 08:12 PM
A.J. forgot to guard WEST on Friday night in the 3rd quarter when he scored 8 straight points to help Boston back in the game when we were up 12. plus some bads shots taken. But that seems to be let go because he scores some points. His defence is better but he sure is not any better ball handler. Like I said before give SARUNAS more time with starters you would see better play!!

hoopsforlife
03-05-2006, 08:19 PM
Field Goals Rebounds
pos min fgm-a 3pm-a ftm-a off def tot ast pf st to bs pts


S. Jasikevicius 16:47 4-5 3-4 1-1 0 1 1 2 2 1 3 0 12

If he had played 48 minutes he might have had 9 TO's and 36 points.

Terrible player. terrible :( Anybody who has championship experience and knows something about winning and tells the truth as he sees it, is no earthly good to any team he is on. He needs to be cut from the team and banned from the NBA.

My opinion of this game is the Pacers played lethargicly, with no energy and only well enough to win. The Pacers won in spite of their play not because of it.
I really didn't see the problem with Sarunas all of you guys saw. Hell, what do I know about basketball anyway?

Jermaniac
03-05-2006, 08:21 PM
He scored 12 points and gave up 18 WHOOOPIEEEEEE

MagicRat
03-05-2006, 08:28 PM
For the last 5 plays of the game, other than that last inbounds play, we reverted to clear out isolation basketball. Now it's one thing to see J.O. or even our other former player go one on one while the other four players ran to the other side of the floor, it is another thing altogether to see A.J., Fred or Jax do it.

Just to make you feel better, on the post game show with Mark and Slick AJ said the final play was supposed to be an iso for him on top........

owl
03-05-2006, 08:29 PM
It was a win and I will take it. After the Boston loss and some other losses this year on last second shots it is time the scales tilted the other way.
I do no believe Harrison will every be a great rebounder. He will be adequate
but rarely have big rebounding games. He does block out fairly well and that helps others get the rebound. For a second year player he is showing good
improvement.
AJ had 4 assists in 35 minutes and 3 turnovers. He had his share of problems
and rarely stopped Iverson also.


owl

hoopsforlife
03-05-2006, 08:39 PM
He scored 12 points and gave up 18 WHOOOPIEEEEEE

I don't know where you get your information from but Saras did not give up 18 points.

This game was played very closely all the way and neither team got a big lead on the other. Saras never caused the team to lose ground when he was in. You can go NBA.com Play-by-Play and see the time line clearly.

Fred Jones and Steve Jackson were the reason this game was even tight. They could not hit anything all game. We should have won by 20 today.

JBones19
03-05-2006, 08:40 PM
I just find it really funny how fickle some fans can be. Last year and even sometimes early in this season people hated on AJ, people hated on JO, Jax, and then now of course Runi. Whenever a player is in a "funk" or plays an awful game someone is going to point out how terrible that player is and that they should be traded. Especially in the case of Runi and AJ, neither of these guys are so called "starting" caliber point guards in the NBA. AJ is playing out of his mind right now and everyone loves him, well what happens when he starts slumping or ends up not as playing as well because he comes off the bench for someone else? Runi is still a rookie and only played just over half an NBA season. I guess I just look at the team as a whole and try not to single guys out too much (though I do with Jax a lot.) Fact is we played like crap as a team and for the most part individually today and still beat a team on the road we haven't beaten in over two seasons. I'll take it.

-J

CableKC
03-05-2006, 08:51 PM
Why dose everyone always hate on Sarunas.Hes a great player and i think he should start.

I even agree with Jermainiac today......Sarunas sucked it up out there......the Sixers pressured the ball when he got it.

He did make some key and open 3pt shots when given the chance.......so he wasn't a complete loss out there......its just that this game....you can really tell when the Pacers offense really bogged down when he was running the point.

I really think that it won't be an issue come playoff time.....Sarunas is gonna only get garbage minutes behind Tinsley.:(

Jermaniac
03-05-2006, 08:58 PM
Korver posted him up 3-4 times and he scored everytime. When they put him on Salmons, Salmons went to the line 8 times.

AJ left a 8 point lead for him twice and the lead shrunk both times.

hoopsforlife
03-05-2006, 08:59 PM
I watched the game. Did you?

Every time he came in, our lead shrunk or disappeared.

That says enough in inself, esp. when the other team changes its WHOLE gameplan, just to attack you cause you are a defensive weakness

Yes I watched the game and our lead did not shrink when he was in solely because of him. When he was in Fred went iso alot and Peja was on the bench. There was no motion by anybody. Saras needs people who move to be effective and nobody did that today. I thought the whole team played poorly and really didn't deserve to win today.

Like someone said though, A win is a win.

PS: if Carlise returns to that slow down boring style he likes so much, the playoffs will be irrelevant to us.

dipperdunk
03-05-2006, 09:06 PM
Hi guys, nice road win for the Pacers. A sloppy game by both teams but when you are on the road it doesn't have to be pretty just so you get the win.

I haven't had a chance to watch the Pacers much this season just some random thoughts from today's game..

Carlisle- I know he receives some criticism and I can't comment on most of that because I don't watch the Pacers every game. However, I don't think there is a coach in the league better at using time outs to control the tempo of the game. The Sixers were averaging 110 ppg since the all-star break and today every time it looked like the Sixers were going to go on a run Carlisle would immediately put an end to it with a perfect time out. He also exploits Iverson on the defensive end as good as any coach in the league.

Saras- I won't comment too much on him because that seems like it might create a firestorm on this board. I thought he was better fundamentally and would be more of an impact player but now watching him I think the international style of play hid some of his flaws. He picks up his dribble way too often in the back court when pressured he probably got away with that in the past because the international bigs tend to stay back as outlets because they all can handle the ball. That won't work in the NBA when you pick your dribble you'll get trapped. He also gets exploited on the defensive end; the Sixers were attacking him all day with Salmons and Korver. On his international team they were probably able to hide that deficiency by using a zone defense but that won't work in the NBA. He does do some nice things offensively he had a couple of big three pointers today. He might be better suited in an up tempo system.

The Pacers are doing a great job with Tinsley and J.O. out of the lineup but they are really a different team without those guys. Harrison scored a couple of baskets in the paint in the 1st half but for the most part the Pacers were a jump shooting team today. When you get Jermaine back in there it will give you a legit post presence that draws a double team and with the spacing Peja provides it should make it tough for teams to defend the Pacers.

One last comment, the broadcast team today was awful. If they weren't talking about Iverson and the olympics they were talking about something else totally unrelated to the game. They just did a horrible job IMO.

Jon Theodore
03-05-2006, 09:27 PM
IF sarunas were playing for the Phoenix suns, he'd be averaging close to a double double.

SarunasJ3
03-05-2006, 09:35 PM
Sarunas is a bad defender but AJ aint anything special on the defensive end.I honestly rather have Sarunas starting because when he dose he always dose good.AJ is good too but i think Sarunas is better.

Jermaniac
03-05-2006, 09:39 PM
Sarunas is a bad defender but AJ aint anything special on the defensive end.I honestly rather have Sarunas starting because when he dose he always dose good.AJ is good too but i think Sarunas is better.
You said yourself that you cant see the games, how in the world do you know how AJ is on defense?

PacerMan
03-05-2006, 09:41 PM
Why dose everyone always hate on Sarunas.Hes a great player and i think he should start.



What's with this "hate" crud? Nobody here hates the guy. It's a freaking game for goodness sakes! But the fact is MOST here can see the truth, that he's simply not that great. Good, but in no way great.
For some reason you can't see that.

pacerwaala
03-05-2006, 09:43 PM
The Carlisle play calling is my only concern. I mean, yeah we should expect the best from our team every game, but cmon?! Seriously!!! How many teams in the NBA would still be playing this well had their top 2 players been removed from their team and more than 60% of their payroll not suiting up to play for more than a month now?? We need some more sunshine brigaders in Pacerland. Great win!!!


great post. Rick Carlisle cannot do enough for some on this board.

Also, regarding the isolations at the end of the game (while having ball movement during the whole game) -

IMHO, in the NBA, at the end of games, coaches try to manufacture baskets by exploiting one or two matchups. How many games have we seen in the NBA, where a team won in the last moments by ball movement (the screen plays for Reggie and Rip are kind of isolation plays also where the PG keeps dribbling at the top of the key and waits for the SG to get open.).

So, in a close game when there is one or two posessions left, you feed your best player, give him some weak side rebounding help and hope he comes through.

timmanis2000
03-05-2006, 09:45 PM
^ the nba is like a ruth chris steak and barcelona is like the cheese paper left from a hardee`s 2 for 3.

That,s funny.:laugh:

Ralph Snart
03-05-2006, 09:58 PM
What's with this "hate" crud? Nobody here hates the guy. It's a freaking game for goodness sakes! But the fact is MOST here can see the truth, that he's simply not that great. Good, but in no way great.
For some reason you can't see that.

I don't think anyone hates a particular prayer on the team (unless they are a Judas like Artest), we just get frustrated when they don't play to the best of their ability.

Saras has a good game, he just can't deal with full court pressure or iso defense (two things he's rarely faced in Europe or the international game). He will get better and he will come along, he's a rookie, there are going to be some growing pains.

I'm glad Carlisle put him in at the end of the game, because it showed that Carlisle recognized that he was shooting well today. If Saras had ended up with the ball for the final shot, I would have been happy with that as well.

Outlaw
03-05-2006, 10:07 PM
I agree that we will go back to dump it down & stand around (ISO ball) when JO comes back. Why? turnovers! Rick will use turnovers as the reason for going back to a control offense.

I don't want to go back to ISO ball but Rick will if we keep playing sloppy on the offensive end.

slyder
03-05-2006, 11:53 PM
I agree that we will go back to dump it down & stand around (ISO ball) when JO comes back. Why? turnovers! Rick will use turnovers as the reason for going back to a control offense.

I don't want to go back to ISO ball but Rick will if we keep playing sloppy on the offensive end.

gosh i hope your'e wrong because that would un-do a
lot of positive progress in a two-year stretch with few positive.
i like RC and support the team but if the ISO style is used more than an occassional tool, i think it might be time for the "three years"
(per LB) to be up...

blow
03-06-2006, 05:24 AM
That,s funny.:laugh:

Yeah, man, it may be funny, but it is no way true. Barcelona is a good team, and ir would beat 10 NBA teams at least. Those Serbian coaches, Obradovic and Ivanovic, and, of course, Italian Ettore Messina would tear the "smart" Carlisle's system to pieces.

Don't underestimate Europe, guys. Put Dirk, Peja, Gasol, Kirilenko and Saras on one team, and the USA national team would definitely lose to them.

FireTheCoach
03-06-2006, 07:45 AM
How quickly we are able to forget the Washington game in which Saras had 14 pts, 11 assists with only 2 turnovers in a huge win against a conference rival that we were tied with for 5th seed.... wasn't that just a few days ago??

D-BONE
03-06-2006, 08:03 AM
I've gotta echo JBjones 19, Fire the Coach, and others who've noted the reactionary tendencies of some posters. Jack is a constant target and AJ and Saras have flip-flopped throughout the season. Currently, Peja, Harrison, and Granger are some of the most liked. I like them all b/c they're on the Pacers and right now they are at least playing together and having more success than during the Artest suspension. None of these guys is without weaknesses in their game and it is difficult in any scenario to single out just one player who wins, but especially who loses, a given game. Games are won and lost by the constellation of many factors forming the team performance. Games are won and lost by the team. For example, yes Saras struggled on D and ballhandling. At the same time, take away his timely 3s and we aren't in position to win the game. Good teams overcome the weaknesses of their individual players in order to win. That's the same fo us until we get a team composed of 5 MJs.

owl
03-06-2006, 08:07 AM
How quickly we are able to forget the Washington game in which Saras had 14 pts, 11 assists with only 2 turnovers in a huge win against a conference rival that we were tied with for 5th seed.... wasn't that just a few days ago??

Attitudes on players change like the March weather in Indiana. :-)

All of the Pacers guards are flawed in one form or another.
One thing that is sorely lacking is speed by the point. If I were the Pacers
I would look at Dee Brown as a draft pick this year or some other very speedy guard.


owl

D-BONE
03-06-2006, 08:11 AM
On another front, the return of isoball many have already noted appeared to me to be the predominant approach, basically, the entire second half. Outlaw's theory about restrictions to the open offense due to TO problems sounds eerily on target.

D-BONE
03-06-2006, 08:14 AM
Attitudes on players change like the March weather in Indiana. :-)

All of the Pacers guards are flawed in one form or another.
One thing that is sorely lacking is speed by the point. If I were the Pacers
I would look at Dee Brown as a draft pick this year or some other very speedy guard.


owl

Absolutely. Speed at the point, or even speed anywhere is a sorely lacking commodity.

3ballinhoop
03-06-2006, 08:16 AM
I did not watch the first half, in which he apparently had problems with Philadelphia pressure.
However, I saw the entire second half, and if there were problems in the first 2 quarters he must have adjusted to them, because Philadelphia stopped pressing him; apparently they decided they didn't succeed anymore. There were a few pressure situations at first, but they were easily solved with Jones and Jackson offering pass possibilities.

If the game was awful in those first quarters, which I couldn't tell, it certainly was a solid game with great shooting in the second half.

For some reason the mistakes Jasikevicius makes are highlighted and pointed out on this board in a different manner than mistakes by players like Johnson, Jackson, Jones who produce more mistakes and turnovers pretty much every game.

RWB
03-06-2006, 09:49 AM
I agree that we will go back to dump it down & stand around (ISO ball) when JO comes back. Why? turnovers! Rick will use turnovers as the reason for going back to a control offense.

I don't want to go back to ISO ball but Rick will if we keep playing sloppy on the offensive end.

Stealing your quote Outlaw, because I thought the same thing.

Also didn't seem like as many picks were being set for Peja. Korver seemed to be able to stick with him pretty easily and last I heard Korver wasn't known for his defensive prowess.

ChicagoJ
03-06-2006, 01:13 PM
Since we're bashing Bill, Snapper and Brent, I thought I'd point out the astute discussion of SJax (once they remembered they were broadcasting a game).

He IS a player that, at the end of the game, you've got to ask yourself, "Did he do more today to help our team or the other team."

Except for hitting that gamewinning layup, he certainly did more to help the 76ers than anybody not named Iverson.

Did I undertand correctly that he was 5-20 with four dunks and a layup? I knew he was bad but wow, that's some bad shooting.

Thank goodness he made up for the bad shooting by having a great attitude. Oh wait, there was the starting/ shouting match when Rick pulled him from the game after he chucked up that awful 3-pointer with 13 seconds still on the shotclock.

And the play where he never got back on defense because he was yelling at the official.

Nevermind.

Since86
03-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Since Jay started the talk about the announcers again, ;) I'll continue it.

What was up with their AWFUL explanation of Harrison's block on AI? I just about fell off the couch when I heard that. Then they come back from a commercial break and ask Bill to explain it better, and he switched the subject, was called out on switching the subject, and still didn't answer the original question.

How hard is it to understand, and explain, that you can block a shot into the backboard as long as it hasn't already touched it? Once the ball hits the backboard it's considered on the desent and would be deemed a goaltend.

My gosh. You'd think 3 guys that are paid to call games would know simple rules, especially when one of them were a top 50 player in the league at a post position.


I wish some network would mike up some ordinary joes at their house and let them do the play calling. It would be much more interesting listening to their VA rants about everyday life, and you'd get just as indepth information concerning the actual game.

Will Galen
03-06-2006, 01:38 PM
Jax took twice as many shots as Peja. AJ, and Fred also took more shots than Peja. I don't have a problem with AJ because he was hitting, however I want Peja as first option not 4th!

ChicagoJ
03-06-2006, 01:45 PM
Maybe its just me, but I do laugh every time Bill Walton tells Snapper that Fred Jones is "the greatest native Oregonian ever to play the game."

Rickshaw
03-06-2006, 02:01 PM
Stealing your quote Outlaw, because I thought the same thing.

Also didn't seem like as many picks were being set for Peja. Korver seemed to be able to stick with him pretty easily and last I heard Korver wasn't known for his defensive prowess.
He played ok defense up until the last play. He should make another movie though,
"Dude, Wheres' my man??"

Roy Munson
03-06-2006, 02:03 PM
Maybe its just me, but I do laugh every time Bill Walton tells Snapper that Fred Jones is "the greatest native Oregonian ever to play the game."

It's a little teasing for Snapper because he is a TRUE native born Oregonian. Snapper prepped at Franklin HS in portland and then played for University of Oregon.

What Bill doesn't seem to realize though, is that Freddy is NOT a native Oregonian. Freddy was born in Arkansas and moved to Oregon when his dad got transfered to the Reynolds Aluminum plant in Troutdale, OR, when Freddy was about 10-11 years old.

But Bill could be right in that Freddy was the greatest high school player from Oregon since he is the only player to win the HS player of the year award twice. All the other winners, including Damon Stoudamire, Danny Ainge, Richard Washington, Mike Dunleavy, only won it once.

ChicagoJ
03-06-2006, 02:06 PM
It's a little teasing for Snapper because he is a TRUE native born Oregonian. Snapper prepped at Franklin HS in portland and then played for University of Oregon.

I knew that - that's why its so funny.


What Bill doesn't seem to realize though, is that Freddy is NOT a native Oregonian. Freddy was born in Arkansas and moved to Oregon when his dad got transfered to the Reynolds Aluminum plant in Troutdale, OR, when Freddy was about 10-11 years old.

I had forgotten that. So even when Bill has a clever line, its still wrong. :laugh:


But Bill could be right in that Freddy was the greatest high school player from Oregon since he is the only player to win the HS player of the year award twice. All the other winners, including Damon Stoudamire, Danny Ainge, Richard Washington, Mike Dunleavy, only won it once.

Cool. I was about to ask you who the other contenders for "best player from Oregon ever" were.

CableKC
03-06-2006, 02:14 PM
Did I undertand correctly that he was 5-20 with four dunks and a layup? I knew he was bad but wow, that's some bad shooting.
According to the NBA Box Score:

SJax scored 15 points on:

FG Shooting : 5-20
3pt Shooting: 1-6

I went through the Play-By-Play and found that he made:

2 two-point jumpers
1 layup
1 dunk
1 three-point shot

but ( in the process ) had:

6 missed two-point jumpers
4 missed layups ( 1 that was blocked )
5 missed 3-point shots

To his credit...he did dish out 7 assists, made all 4 of his FTs, got 3 steals and 5 rebounds and made 1 block.

Kegboy
03-06-2006, 02:15 PM
Hi guys, nice road win for the Pacers. A sloppy game by both teams but when you are on the road it doesn't have to be pretty just so you get the win.

I haven't had a chance to watch the Pacers much this season just some random thoughts from today's game..

Carlisle- I know he receives some criticism and I can't comment on most of that because I don't watch the Pacers every game. However, I don't think there is a coach in the league better at using time outs to control the tempo of the game. The Sixers were averaging 110 ppg since the all-star break and today every time it looked like the Sixers were going to go on a run Carlisle would immediately put an end to it with a perfect time out. He also exploits Iverson on the defensive end as good as any coach in the league.

Saras- I won't comment too much on him because that seems like it might create a firestorm on this board. I thought he was better fundamentally and would be more of an impact player but now watching him I think the international style of play hid some of his flaws. He picks up his dribble way too often in the back court when pressured he probably got away with that in the past because the international bigs tend to stay back as outlets because they all can handle the ball. That won't work in the NBA when you pick your dribble you'll get trapped. He also gets exploited on the defensive end; the Sixers were attacking him all day with Salmons and Korver. On his international team they were probably able to hide that deficiency by using a zone defense but that won't work in the NBA. He does do some nice things offensively he had a couple of big three pointers today. He might be better suited in an up tempo system.

The Pacers are doing a great job with Tinsley and J.O. out of the lineup but they are really a different team without those guys. Harrison scored a couple of baskets in the paint in the 1st half but for the most part the Pacers were a jump shooting team today. When you get Jermaine back in there it will give you a legit post presence that draws a double team and with the spacing Peja provides it should make it tough for teams to defend the Pacers.

One last comment, the broadcast team today was awful. If they weren't talking about Iverson and the olympics they were talking about something else totally unrelated to the game. They just did a horrible job IMO.

I swear, every time this man posts I wish we could brainwash him into a Pacers fan. DD, you've just got a great eye for the game.

Since86
03-06-2006, 02:18 PM
According to the NBA Box Score:

SJax scored 15 points on:

FG Shooting : 5-20
3pt Shooting: 1-6

I went through the Play-By-Play and found that he made:

2 two-point jumpers
1 layup
1 dunk
1 three-point shot

but ( in the process ) had:

6 missed two-point jumpers
4 missed layups ( 1 that was blocked )
5 missed 3-point shots

To his credit...he did dish out 7 assists, made all 4 of his FTs, got 3 steals and 5 rebounds and made 1 block.

I can tell you that's wrong, and I only saw the halftime highlites and the 2nd half.

He had two dunks yesterday, with the GW layup, so right there contributes to one more layup/dunk than they give him credit for.

He had a two handed fast break dunk where he cocked it behind his head, and he had a dunk where he went baseline from the left corner and dunked it right handed by bringing his hand up and over his head.

Roy Munson
03-06-2006, 02:21 PM
Cool. I was about to ask you who the other contenders for "best player from Oregon ever" were.

I think the best ever from Oregon might be Willie Stoudamire, who played in the mid-60's. He had legendary range, played with one of those big full-blown afros and scored about 30 per game back when there was no 3-point line. He was the best combination of lightning fast and unmatched range and accuracy I've seen.

He struggled with life after high school, played for a while for Portland State, and spent some time behind bars. I know that his son Damon never really was in much contact with Willie when Damon was growing up.

Willie had a brother named Charles, and his son Antoine played for Georgetown and Oregon (25 ppg), and another son Salim.

There is another cousin named Patrick (not sure which branch of the family he's from) who is going to a college in Illinois (not University Of, but another one) next fall to play football.

CableKC
03-06-2006, 02:52 PM
I can tell you that's wrong, and I only saw the halftime highlites and the 2nd half.

He had two dunks yesterday, with the GW layup, so right there contributes to one more layup/dunk than they give him credit for.

He had a two handed fast break dunk where he cocked it behind his head, and he had a dunk where he went baseline from the left corner and dunked it right handed by bringing his hand up and over his head.
Okay.....I just got it off of the ESPN Play-By-Play....they could be wrong....either way....he had a bad shooting night where the few shots that he made were off of dunks or layups.

Gamble
03-06-2006, 07:29 PM
Peck i have to point out a couple of things that should be taken
into consideration.

First David H has a busted hand and has played relatively productively
with it. On top of that he has always struggled with rebounding.
Your a tough man to please when it comes to the boards but you have to
admit his blocks get your butt out of your seat.


The second is for Jay. Jackson is playing with busted knees and although
he is never consistent he still is putting some good D on players.

The last thing is that I can't remeber that last time we beat
Philly at their house. It sure was an ugly game but Bill Walton was
even worse. I wouldn't mind John Madden over him.