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View Full Version : Post Game Thread : Pacers @ Sixers - Action Jackson comes through



Jermaniac
03-05-2006, 03:38 PM
BIG WIN - On the road at that. Man I knew Jack was going to get the ball I didnt know he would actually drive to the basket when he got it. I'm happy as hell that he did that, cause I actually thought he would stop and shoot a jumper. Wasnt preaty but we won so who cares. GO PACERS

317Kim
03-05-2006, 03:39 PM
:woot2: We finally beat the Sixers!!! :D Huge win standing wise also!

Shade
03-05-2006, 03:40 PM
If I never hear Bill Walton and the ABC Iverson-jockey crew again, it will be too damn soon.

Great win.

Third line.

piksi
03-05-2006, 03:42 PM
BIG WIN - On the road at that. Man I knew Jack was going to get the ball I didnt know he would actually drive to the basket when he got it. I'm happy as hell that he did that, cause I actually thought he would stop and shoot a jumper. Wasnt preaty but we won so who cares. GO PACERS

he was 5-20 for a game. Chances of hitting anything but a layup or a dunk were slim to none (probably none)

Outlaw
03-05-2006, 03:43 PM
Anybody else think that the ABC announcing team is absolutly horrible?:confused: They spent way too much time yacking about AI and the Olympic team than calling the game at one stretch.:rolleyes:

Great win by the way.:D

edit: I didn't see but Shade has my thoughts on the ABC team.

317Kim
03-05-2006, 03:46 PM
They (ABC announcers) didn't even talk about the game! They mostly talked about Kobe, MVP, Olympic team, but rarely anything about the game.

Lord Helmet
03-05-2006, 03:49 PM
They (ABC announcers) didn't even talk about the game! They mostly talked about Kobe, MVP, Olympic team, but rarely anything about the game.
Every 5 seconds, they'd be laughing about something or we'd be watching A.I. talk about the Olympic team.

Knucklehead Warrior
03-05-2006, 03:49 PM
Bill Walton sounds a LOT better with the sound turned off. Also you'll "see" more of the game because you're not distracted by his drivel.

aceace
03-05-2006, 03:49 PM
They (ABC announcers) didn't even talk about the game! They mostly talked about Kobe, MVP, Olympic team, but rarely anything about the game.Thats why they suck! Then again we are spoiled with quality announcers throughout Indiana who call the game rather then trying to be bigger then the game. I must mention Hulk had another good game.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
03-05-2006, 03:50 PM
This might be the first time that Carlisle has outcoached someone in the final seconds of a close game.

Im not sure if having Jax drive to the hole was how that last play was drawn up, but it was a hell of a lot better than the usual iso-and-forced-shot that RC usually runs in close games.

And Maruice Cheek totally blew the last possession with whatever garbage play that he was trying to run. Having AI inbound with 2.9 secs??? I would not have been surprised if AI had won that game if he would have been on the recieving end of the inbound.

317Kim
03-05-2006, 03:51 PM
:nod: Hulk had a very nice game. 13 points from 5/5 shooting.

Fred didnt' have too good of a game. he was 4-13 :eek: but had 9 points.

indytoad
03-05-2006, 03:52 PM
I wanted to comment on the great defense we played there on the last possession (although it was helped by an ill-advised play call). The Pacers knew exactly what Philly wanted to do, and they left Webber no chance to get the ball back to Iverson. Then they forced him back into a shot way out of his range. Good job guys.

IndyToad
Picks it off

Jaydawg2270
03-05-2006, 03:55 PM
Bill Walton should get fired

18to88
03-05-2006, 03:56 PM
He never will though.

OnlyPacersLeft
03-05-2006, 03:56 PM
I was also expecting jack to stop and jack that shot up from the corner! when he drove I was like omg the lanes wide open! then it went in i screamed YESSSS!
HUGE WIN! just gotta stay above water right now!

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 03:57 PM
AJ did a great, GREAT job denying Iverson the ball in the last 2.9 seconds. I was so glad to see Webb rise up for a three.

AJ was the star of the game, he and Harrison

bulldog
03-05-2006, 03:57 PM
We should try something like that as our go to end of game play, since ISO's aren't working, even when it's not an inbounds.

Maybe a pick and roll for AJ, then the picker sets consecutive curl picks for Jackson (goes to the bucket) and Peja pops for the three. Give our three best scorers a chance rather than just iso's.

bulldog
03-05-2006, 03:58 PM
AJ did a great, GREAT job denying Iverson the ball in the last 2.9 seconds. I was so glad to see Webb rise up for a three.

AJ was the star of the game, he and Harrison
And I agree, AJ's defense was clutch, although that play was horrible and everyone knew what they were trying to do.

Hicks
03-05-2006, 04:02 PM
I'm ready for Stephen Jackson to play for another team. Yeah he had the winning bucket, but only because Philly fell asleep on D and had TWO players turn their backs on him while a third player decided to chase him rather than go the other way to force a jumpshot. Beyond that, he is detrimental to the team. I know his stats look good, but I am sick of him pounding the ball, bricking jumpers, and not getting back on D to scream a ref.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 04:05 PM
I'm ready for Stephen Jackson to play for another team. Yeah he had the winning bucket, but only because Philly fell asleep on D and had TWO players turn their backs on him while a third player decided to chase him rather than go the other way to force a jumpshot. Beyond that, he is detrimental to the team. I know his stats look good, but I am sick of him pounding the ball, bricking jumpers, and not getting back on D to scream a ref.



I agree with you. Jax was horrible today and the Pacers were bad also, luckily the Sixers were just a little worse. I think this is the worst the Pacers have played this whole season, at least in a win

Ralph Snart
03-05-2006, 04:07 PM
Bad game for Jack, but the last bucket made up for it. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but Harrison had two absolutely clutch free throws toward the end, and I was sitting there expecting him to miss both.

heywoode
03-05-2006, 04:09 PM
I'm ready for Stephen Jackson to play for another team. Yeah he had the winning bucket, but only because Philly fell asleep on D and had TWO players turn their backs on him while a third player decided to chase him rather than go the other way to force a jumpshot. Beyond that, he is detrimental to the team. I know his stats look good, but I am sick of him pounding the ball, bricking jumpers, and not getting back on D to scream a ref.

Amen brother. AMEN.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 04:09 PM
Bad game for Jack, but the last bucket made up for it. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but Harrison had two absolutely clutch free throws toward the end, and I was sitting there expecting him to miss both.



True, but that was about a minute after he missed 3 of 4. DH was a huge factor in the game today

Evan_The_Dude
03-05-2006, 04:09 PM
I'm ready for Stephen Jackson to play for another team.

I used to agree with that, but I haven't felt that way about him for about a month now. I realize he barks at the refs a bit, I realize he's streaky, but don't discount the fact that he does make big plays. He didn't really get in a good rhythm tonight shooting the ball either, but how many assists did he have?...

granger
03-05-2006, 04:11 PM
This might be the first time that Carlisle has outcoached someone in the final seconds of a close game.

Im not sure if having Jax drive to the hole was how that last play was drawn up, but it was a hell of a lot better than the usual iso-and-forced-shot that RC usually runs in close games.

And Maruice Cheek totally blew the last possession with whatever garbage play that he was trying to run. Having AI inbound with 2.9 secs??? I would not have been surprised if AI had won that game if he would have been on the recieving end of the inbound.

aj said last play was iso again, him on the top.
but saras did nice job.

Unclebuck
03-05-2006, 04:21 PM
Come on guys with 4.9 seconds left you don't have time to run much of a play, you get the ball in and you have to do something quick. Criticize Rick for playing too much Iso if you want, but with 5 seconds left you don't have much time to run an intricate play

Jermaniac
03-05-2006, 04:24 PM
We almost lost the game cause he refused to get back on D cause he was *****ing at a ref, then he didnt want to sit on the bench. Instead he decided to stand up and stare down his coach.

One of our coaches was talking to Jack, he wasnt staring no one down.

Evan_The_Dude
03-05-2006, 04:25 PM
Tonight was the first time he has stepped up to hit the "big play" in a long while, IMHO

You're speaking as in making the last shot. I'm speaking as in the 7 assists, 3 steals, 1 block type of big plays. Keep in mind the guy is a role player who due to injuries is asked to contribute on a higher level. Yeah he barks at the officials, but I'm sure there's other solutions to that other than trading somebody.

I don't see people complaining when Jackson has a great shooting night, yet everybody wants to jump down his throat when he goes 5-20. Tell me who else was there to take those shots. He had a bad night shooting, but had a solid performance in every other category. We won, I'm not complaining PERIOD

D-BONE
03-05-2006, 04:45 PM
You're speaking as in making the last shot. I'm speaking as in the 7 assists, 3 steals, 1 block type of big plays. Keep in mind the guy is a role player who due to injuries is asked to contribute on a higher level. Yeah he barks at the officials, but I'm sure there's other solutions to that other than trading somebody.

I don't see people complaining when Jackson has a great shooting night, yet everybody wants to jump down his throat when he goes 5-20. Tell me who else was there to take those shots. He had a bad night shooting, but had a solid performance in every other category. We won, I'm not complaining PERIOD

Jack was horrid shooting. However, I agree he contributed some valuable plays in other areas. People have said Carlisle is afraid of him on here before. I think it was a good move for RC to remove him there after he started drifting. The play where he went down under the hoop and didn't get back, I think he may have had an argument. Shortly after that, the completely ill-advised three he jacked up from the right wing that drew nothing but backboard was the most egregious thing IMO. What the hell was that? However, the brief stint on the bench helped him refocus. That's just how it will be with him. Gotta take the good with the bad and try to manage him. When he's focused, he helps us significantly.

D-BONE
03-05-2006, 04:56 PM
Two point:

1. Who are those people? The only person I have heard say that is Jermaniac, and I dont buy it. They may tune coach out, but I dont think he is scared of them.

2. So did Ron.................

1) Someone or some people.

2) That is true, however, comparing Jack to Ron is completely unfair to Jack. Jack is far from perfect, but he's not Ron Artest.

8.9_seconds
03-05-2006, 05:09 PM
We almost lost the game cause he refused to get back on D cause he was *****ing at a ref,

Yeah, that pissed me off. The dude just sat on the floor for like 8 seconds after smacking the goal post, then began to trot back down the floor.


then he didnt want to sit on the bench. Instead he decided to stand up and stare down his coach.

I saw that also, I was just screaming at the TV, JAX SIT YOUR *** DOWN!!!!!



Tonight was the first time he has stepped up to hit the "big play" in a long while, IMHO

I'm suprised he did, and he didn't shoot an unbalanced, off one foot, brick. I do appreciate him making the shot, but it doesn't make up for anything before that, but he did come through.

Coach
03-05-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm ready for Stephen Jackson to play for another team. Yeah he had the winning bucket, but only because Philly fell asleep on D and had TWO players turn their backs on him while a third player decided to chase him rather than go the other way to force a jumpshot. Beyond that, he is detrimental to the team. I know his stats look good, but I am sick of him pounding the ball, bricking jumpers, and not getting back on D to scream a ref.

I know this is not the trade proposal thread but what if we traded SJax, and Peja (sign and trade)in the offseason along with Tinsley maybe for a great young shooter at the 2 and a backup 3. I see Granger as being the starter next year at the 3 spot so we need a backup and if we get a great shooter like Peja (but from the 2 spot) I think we could be set with most of our lineup. Do I know who that might be? no maybe someone smarter than me does.

Kegboy
03-05-2006, 05:14 PM
I don't think Rick's ever been scared by a player. I think it's possible he was walking on eggshells at the beginning of this season, trying to keep all the egos in check without having Mike Brown to fall back on. But dip**** being gone takes a lot of pressure off in that regard.

Anthem
03-05-2006, 05:27 PM
I really thought it made sense to trade Jax and AJ for Andre Miller. Even after the Peja trade, I thought it made too much sense not to do.

Evan_The_Dude
03-05-2006, 06:09 PM
Reasons to trade Jackson:

He's too emotional
He has some off games (making shots)

Reasons not to trade Jackson:

When he's on, he's dominant (making shots)
He is liked very much by all of his teammates
He is our most durable player, comes to play, and gives 110%
He can contribute in every category even if he's not making shots

IMO the positives outweigh the negatives. We had good reason to trade Artest, but there isn't a good enough reason to trade Jackson unless he's part of a package that truely brings us a better player. Otherwise, trading him would be one of the dumbest things we could do.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
03-05-2006, 06:29 PM
Im usually at the head of the Jax-hating crowd.

That said, I thought he played exceptionally well through most of the game, even though his shot was off. He had some great assists, forced some turnovers, and only shot the ball occaisionally. He was being an effective part of the offense even though he couldnt buy a basket.

Then the 4th quarter came and he reverted to dribbling the shot clock away and jacking up horrible, contested shots. He nearly cost us the game. Im glad he made that last layup, but I think most of the credit has to go to Philly for the horrible D on that play.

I think its beyond the point where getting the good from SJax is worth putting up with the bad. He has got to be one of the most inconsistent shooters in the league, and we just need more from our starting 2 guard.

Pacesetter
03-05-2006, 07:57 PM
Hip Hip Hooray!!!!

wtg Jackson!!!!! :cool:

CableKC
03-05-2006, 08:00 PM
I'm ready for Stephen Jackson to play for another team. Yeah he had the winning bucket, but only because Philly fell asleep on D and had TWO players turn their backs on him while a third player decided to chase him rather than go the other way to force a jumpshot. Beyond that, he is detrimental to the team. I know his stats look good, but I am sick of him pounding the ball, bricking jumpers, and not getting back on D to scream a ref.
The one thing I don't like is when SJax does get the ball and dribbles....dribbles and dribbles.....and you know at that point that he is gonna shoot the ball. But I noticed something in a particular play that I didn't notice before........everyone just sort of stands waiting for him to do something

I don't know if its an isolation play that is called for him.....but I really think that half the time.....it would be useful to move around a little more to see if anyone can help him out with the ball. Someone....please correct me if I am wrong....but I don't think that SJax is a really good one-on-one type player and therefore not really a good player that can make that midrange shot.

He may take that shot most of the time....but sometimes I wish someone would go over there and help him out...or at least give him the option to pass the ball out instead of giving him NO OPTION but to go one-on-one with whoever is covering him.

rexnom
03-05-2006, 09:19 PM
I know this is not the trade proposal thread but what if we traded SJax, and Peja (sign and trade)in the offseason along with Tinsley maybe for a great young shooter at the 2 and a backup 3. I see Granger as being the starter next year at the 3 spot so we need a backup and if we get a great shooter like Peja (but from the 2 spot) I think we could be set with most of our lineup. Do I know who that might be? no maybe someone smarter than me does.

I'd be up for this. DG is the future at SF but Peja is critical to this team. If only Peja could play SG...it's such a shame. Imagine Dannt getting Jack minutes...

Evan_The_Dude
03-05-2006, 09:42 PM
I don't know if its an isolation play that is called for him.....but I really think that half the time.....it would be useful to move around a little more to see if anyone can help him out with the ball. Someone....please correct me if I am wrong....but I don't think that SJax is a really good one-on-one type player and therefore not really a good player that can make that midrange shot.

I noticed this too. I also noticed that when they do move around, he almost always passes the ball unless he has a good shot.

D-BONE
03-05-2006, 10:09 PM
Well you said people, like I said I have only seen one person.


As for Jax, you are right. He is not as bad as Artest. But he is just as bad at hurting chemistry.

Explain how Jack is as bad as Artest at hurting team chemistry. I can see how some of his actions deserve crticism but I cannot understand how he can be Ron-Ron's equal as far as causing chemistry problems. That whole period of uninspired, totally disorganized losing play the team suffered from was due to Artest's trade demand and subsequent suspension. We lacked serious chemistry then. That's called team wrecking and SJ is not anywhere near that level.

sixthman
03-05-2006, 10:41 PM
Jack often drives me nuts, but he is what we have right now, and, truthfully, he is one of the five best players on the team. I see improvement in his team play and am willing to overlook the bad shooting night.

CableKC
03-06-2006, 02:01 AM
I noticed this too. I also noticed that when they do move around, he almost always passes the ball unless he has a good shot.
That's what I would hope......the farther away he is from the basket......unless he is totally in the Zone or wide open....the more I wish he would try to pass the ball. But if his teammates don't help out or don't move....then I can see that he has no choice but to hoist up a bad perimeter mid-range shot.

D-BONE
03-06-2006, 07:24 AM
That's what I would hope......the farther away he is from the basket......unless he is totally in the Zone or wide open....the more I wish he would try to pass the ball. But if his teammates don't help out or don't move....then I can see that he has no choice but to hoist up a bad perimeter mid-range shot.

This discussion is spot on, and not just about Jack I don't think. When we begin iso w/ AJ, Jack, and Fred, it would be interesting to have quantifiable evidence of how often that results in one or more passes compared to the original iso guy handling the whole time and eventually shooting. I think the latter by a wide margin. The iso guy and other players all have to realize there's five guys on the floor. There's no reason every "iso" has to be a true one-on-one. The other guys need movements and cuts to the basket and the ballhandler should be alert to the possibility of them coming open.

ChicagoJ
03-06-2006, 10:31 PM
There's a difference between a cancer and a ballhog.

Ultimately, you don't want either on your team.

SJax has his own "flavor" of selfish play, and after the Ron Artest era, its probably best to describe SJax as just your run-of-the-mill me-first player.

Bad enough to keep your team from hitting its potential, but not likely to completely wreck the team along the way.

D-BONE
03-07-2006, 07:18 AM
There's a difference between a cancer and a ballhog.

Ultimately, you don't want either on your team.

SJax has his own "flavor" of selfish play, and after the Ron Artest era, its probably best to describe SJax as just your run-of-the-mill me-first player.

Bad enough to keep your team from hitting its potential, but not likely to completely wreck the team along the way.

Agree to disagree. I think you can make a case for the ballhog proposition, although not nearly as much since the Artest-Peja trade as before. In my opinion, cancer is an extreme characterizaton. That said, I reiterate, get the right goods in return for Jack and or a package, and I'll bid him a fond farewell. Overall, I think he deserves more benefit of the doubt based on: plays hard, plays injured, has worked on his attitude recently w/regard to team play IMO, plays solid D, and, as team is currently constituted, I think is necessary SG option and offensive contributor.

Lithfan
03-07-2006, 08:17 AM
This discussion is spot on, and not just about Jack I don't think. When we begin iso w/ AJ, Jack, and Fred, it would be interesting to have quantifiable evidence of how often that results in one or more passes compared to the original iso guy handling the whole time and eventually shooting. I think the latter by a wide margin. The iso guy and other players all have to realize there's five guys on the floor. There's no reason every "iso" has to be a true one-on-one. The other guys need movements and cuts to the basket and the ballhandler should be alert to the possibility of them coming open.

I agree.

Thats exactly the difference between the true ISO and the team play. True ISO is useless since it draws the double team. And the second defender will not necessary come from the opposite shooter that stands on the 3pt line. If he does then it is simple pass out and thats it. However if it is not the situation, the guy down there MUST know how to pass. If the postingup player cant pass, as in case with current Pacers team, you better don't play ISO.

Great examples of passing postup players are Sabonis, Webber, Divac.
IMO JO cant do that. He is good only for a simple pass to the 3pt shooter. So you better don't play ISO with him.

Who else? Jack? I think that even if he can pass, he wouldnt. AJ? Not a threat in the postup game. Harrison? Very bad passer. If I remember correctly Rick Smiths used to be a good passer. But he is 40?

May be Granger? I never saw him posting up. How is he?

ChicagoJ
03-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Agree to disagree. I think you can make a case for the ballhog proposition, although not nearly as much since the Artest-Peja trade as before. In my opinion, cancer is an extreme characterizaton. That said, I reiterate, get the right goods in return for Jack and or a package, and I'll bid him a fond farewell. Overall, I think he deserves more benefit of the doubt based on: plays hard, plays injured, has worked on his attitude recently w/regard to team play IMO, plays solid D, and, as team is currently constituted, I think is necessary SG option and offensive contributor.

Just in case I wasn't clear - I'm not saying SJax is a cancer. I think he's a turnover-prone, poor-shooting ballhog that spends too much time talking to the refs but I don't think he's ripping the team apart like Artest used to do.

MagicRat
03-07-2006, 11:28 AM
...but I don't think he's ripping the team apart like Artest used to do.

Of course he's not. He's a lubricant who bridges gaps and inspires smiles.....

D-BONE
03-07-2006, 05:31 PM
Just in case I wasn't clear - I'm not saying SJax is a cancer. I think he's a turnover-prone, poor-shooting ballhog that spends too much time talking to the refs but I don't think he's ripping the team apart like Artest used to do.

You were perfectly clear initially. Accept my apologies for MY misreading.