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View Full Version : Have the Pistons peaked? Are the Pacers poised?



McKeyFan
03-02-2006, 01:03 PM
This concept has been discussed here and there this year, but last nights games--both the Pacers and the Pistons--give me reason to think that the theory that the Pistons peaked too early may have a lot of merit.

All you avid Pacers fans: I'm sure you can clearly remember the past three or four years where we start strong at the beginning of the year and the Pistons seem like a fuster-cluck in chaos, even with the great Larry Brown at the helm.

But, year end and year out, the tides would slowly change during the season. Some of those years, I was just convinced that Detroit was finally declining. Then, sure enough, the steady, persistant, fundamentals-focused Brown would get them in position for a strong run at just the right time late in the season.

Last night those of us with Direct TV were able to see the Pistons lose somewhat handily to the Nuggets. What was interesting to me was that Denver figured out how much the Pistons cheat upward on defense and force turnovers--(and more power to them if they are not kept honest). But Denver must have executed, literally, 20 or more alley-oop passes last night overtop the cheating defense.

Teams are starting to decode some of the Piston's secrets. This is one example of many trends that make me think Detroit is in for a difficult rest of the year. Here are some others:

1. Every team is shooting for the Pistons now, because of their starting so strong in the beginning. Atlanta can rarely put it all together, but they do for the Pistons. The Nuggets crowd goes crazy after beating them and its only a non-conference, regular season game. Besides going to the playoffs, the biggest thing you can do during the regular season now is beat the Pistons. Obviously, this forces Detroit to play at a strenuos high level all season--unlike their competitiors--and has the potential to really wear them down.

2. The technicals and flangrants and other attitude issues are really starting to increase. That can't continue if they expect to focus on winning and good basketball.

3. Speaking of good basketball, everybody has been just plain giddy about their free-flowing offense and high winning percentage, etc. But what I see is a team that has been let free by the coach to go their own way. At first it looks great, and many people probably still agree that amnesty from Larry Brown's chains is a great thing.

I see the exact opposite. LB would not approve of the less-disciplined offense. Many three are being jacked up before better percentage shots are explored. I have already mentioned the cheating on defense that ultimately can get you in trouble, and I don't think larry would put up with as much attitudinal and technical foul activity. This is going to catch up with them in the playoffs. I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.

Now, with the Pacers, we have a different trend. Mind you, I don't think we are as good as the Pistons. But we are in a position to have better momentum. And with a few things going our way, we could beat them in the playoffs.

Last night's win demonstrated, to me, the opposite of the slow deterioration of fundamentals that I see with the Pistons. We cranked and cranked and cranked last night, down about five to ten the entire time, but continued to play solid defense, work for high percentage shots, and, most importantly, actually hit our free throws. (That last point may have been a fluke. Let's watch and see.)

Ultimately, we persevered and won the game. Nothing flashy, no big runs. Just solid fundamental basketball and good coaching--the kind players hate but is ultimately good for them, the kind of coaching Larry Brown provides and players try to shuck off.

One last point. The Pistons have been very lucky in that none of their starters have gotten injured. This may last, but percentages say its unlikely. And even if not, for reasons stated above their starters will be worn down come playoff time. The Pacers have been forced to develop the ability to rotate players and learn the flexibility to work together and win with strange and unfamiliar line-ups.

The Pistons haven't. If circumstances force them to do so, it will only increase the chances that they have, in fact, peaked too early.

With a few more tweaks and continued rapid development by our newbies (Hulk, Granger, Saras), the Pacers are poised to peak late. Go Pacers!

grace
03-02-2006, 01:14 PM
I've got a theory, but I'm not saying it until I hear Kstat's.

Shade
03-02-2006, 01:15 PM
Well, the Pistons did kinda peak early. There was not much place to go but down from where they started. However, the Pistons are generally better in the playoffs, though with their defense not quite as good as the past couple seasons, they may have a slightly harder time winning games if their offense isn't clicking. They're also giving their bench more minutes, so that will help the starters to be more rested when the playoffs roll around.

The Pistons are still the best team in the East (maybe the entire NBA, though I like Dallas's chances with them head-to-head), so it's theirs to win or give away at this point.

Bball
03-02-2006, 01:25 PM
It will take the Pistons some time to gel after losing Darko....


















:tongue:


-Bball

Major Cold
03-02-2006, 01:27 PM
I believe that the Pistons will be ready and now they can afford to rest their starter a little with their lead. Give them awhile longer and we will know for sure.

sweabs
03-02-2006, 01:45 PM
I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.

For some reason, I highly doubt that. ;)

Anyway, I agree with half of your argument. I too believe that the Pacers are poised for a late surge (especially if we are able to assimilate Jermaine and Jamaal into the lineup). Adding two players of their calibur into the mix can certainly spark things (although, it could potentially have a negative impact). However, at this point, the more playing time Granger and Harrison get, the better our team becomes.

As for the Pistons, I had my mind made up at the start of this year that Detroit would win it all. I remember getting into little disputes with foretaz during the offseason, that Detroit would still be looking at another NBA Championship, but he raised some of the same points that you are saying now.

I just don't see it. They have the best starting five, bar none. The best starting five I have ever seen, to be honest. Their chemistry is just beyond ridiculous, and that is one thing that will illuminate most come playoff time at the expense of their opponents. Chemistry is so underrated today (not to mention playoff experience). These Pistons know what it's all about.

I'm also not afraid to say that they have the necessary pieces coming off the bench. Sure, they're nothing flashy...but during the playoffs, you don't need extreme depth. You need a few guys who can instantly come into the game and help out, and I think Delfino, Hunter, Dale, McDyess are all guys who can fill that void perfectly and on a consistent basis.

It's almost as if every time the Pistons lose a game, everyone sits back and hopes that "maybe this is a sign!" But let's face it...it's not. Those guys are the ultimate professionals, and have given us no reason to believe that they're just all of a sudden going to faulter.

I will restate my original prediction, that the Pistons will win it all this year. Teams that have demonstrated what they have up to this point just won't choke during the playoffs in my opinion.

From the opposition's perspective, about the only positive that I can come away with is that Darko is no longer on their team.

Indyfan
03-02-2006, 01:46 PM
My hope is that the Pistons this year are like the colts this year, and will have a similar fate come playoff time....but I don't really believe they will lose early in the playoffs like the Colts did. They seem to have a lot of good fortune go their way, the law of averages may catch up to them, but I'm not holding my breath.

Teams do seem to cycle up and down every few years, ie the Nets back to back finals appearance and then down they went, the Lakers after the Shaq trade, still waiting for the Spurs to go down and the Pistons may also if they get a key injury or something breaks up their core group.

I would be surprised if the Pistons don't make the finals, although I really hope they don't.

waxman
03-02-2006, 01:50 PM
Pistons will be fine.... come playoff time. They are built for the playoffs.

Fool
03-02-2006, 01:50 PM
It is right! I deleted my previous post because I thought this stat had to be wrong but its not so I'll repost my original post.


You know what's a weird stat? (Don't take this as an overall reply to the thread, its just something I happened to look up). The Pacers and the Pistons have the exact same number of Techs and Flagrant Fouls - 51 and 1.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/sortableStatsTeam?league=NBA&sort=technicalFoulsPlayer&stable=fouls&dir=descending

Moses
03-02-2006, 01:54 PM
I don't really think they are going to decline. Flip will play them less time in the last few weeks if they begin to get tired and play badly. The Pistons have one of the weakest benches in the NBA however which could come back to haunt them. The only player on that team that I think they could do decent enough without is Ben Wallace..If they lose anyone else to an injury, they are in deep trouble for the playoffs. Not that theres anything to be nervous about..they've had the same lineup intact for the past 2 years or so.

McKeyFan
03-02-2006, 02:07 PM
"The Pacers and Pistons have the same amount of technicals and flagrant fouls."

The issue is trends. Ours came more early in the season, IIRC, especially Jax various tirades, which have subsided of late.

The Pistons are trending opposite: more have occured in the past three weeks, it seems, than the first three months of season.

CableKC
03-02-2006, 02:10 PM
Let's not jump the gun here.....

Despite the recent loss to Denver.....we all know that the Pistons are a machine that appears to be able to "turn it off" and "turn it on" when needed.

For the Pacers.....despite how we are doing and the progress in Granger and Harrison......we still have ZERO idea how good or bad we are gonna do once we integrate Tinsley, Croshere and JONeal into the offense.

I hope that we are not underestimating what the Pistons are capable of and overestimating what the Pacers are capable of based off of recent history.

PacerMan
03-02-2006, 02:37 PM
Let's not jump the gun here.....

Despite the recent loss to Denver.....we all know that the Pistons are a machine that appears to be able to "turn it off" and "turn it on" when needed.

For the Pacers.....despite how we are doing and the progress in Granger and Harrison......we still have ZERO idea how good or bad we are gonna do once we integrate Tinsley, Croshere and JONeal into the offense.

I hope that we are not underestimating what the Pistons are capable of and overestimating what the Pacers are capable of based off of recent history.


I have no idea whether the Pissons have peaked or not. But I can say with certainty that one of the sure signs of a team in decline is beginning to count on being able to "turn it on" when the "time comes". That only works for awhile. (not that I'm thinking they have been doing that, just responding to your post)

Kstat
03-02-2006, 02:50 PM
:lmao: at this thead.

THe Pistons lose one game after the all-star break, and it's because we've "peaked,' and "everybody knows our weakness now"......

I've never seen so much wishful thinking in a single thread in all my life.


Last night those of us with Direct TV were able to see the Pistons lose somewhat handily to the Nuggets. What was interesting to me was that Denver figured out how much the Pistons cheat upward on defense and force turnovers--(and more power to them if they are not kept honest). But Denver must have executed, literally, 20 or more alley-oop passes last night overtop the cheating defense.

Try 12, chief.

And Denver throws that many alley-oops almost every game, It's not as if they tried something new with us.


1. Every team is shooting for the Pistons now, because of their starting so strong in the beginning. Atlanta can rarely put it all together, but they do for the Pistons. The Nuggets crowd goes crazy after beating them and its only a non-conference, regular season game. Besides going to the playoffs, the biggest thing you can do during the regular season now is beat the Pistons. Obviously, this forces Detroit to play at a strenuos high level all season--unlike their competitiors--and has the potential to really wear them down.

Congratulations on proving we're a popular team.

Good point on the wear-down effect, you know cause it sure has worked on the Spurs, Lakers and Bulls....


2. The technicals and flangrants and other attitude issues are really starting to increase. That can't continue if they expect to focus on winning and good basketball.

Flagrants have increased...from 0 to 1! Oh NOOOOOOO!


I see the exact opposite. LB would not approve of the less-disciplined offense. Many three are being jacked up before better percentage shots are explored. I have already mentioned the cheating on defense that ultimately can get you in trouble, and I don't think larry would put up with as much attitudinal and technical foul activity. This is going to catch up with them in the playoffs. I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.

Yeah, we're scoring more points and ALLOWING FEWER POINTS, but yeah, this is such an awful style we run. Another great point.


One last point. The Pistons have been very lucky in that none of their starters have gotten injured. This may last, but percentages say its unlikely. And even if not, for reasons stated above their starters will be worn down come playoff time. The Pacers have been forced to develop the ability to rotate players and learn the flexibility to work together and win with strange and unfamiliar line-ups.

....and going on the last two years, Indiana winning with multiple rotations sure has spelled doom for the Pistons in the playoffs.....


The issue is trends.

Here's a trend for you, and it's been going on a lot longer than the ones you mentioned: 47-10.

btowncolt
03-02-2006, 02:54 PM
:lmao: at this thead.

THe Pistons lose one game after the all-star break, and it's because we've "peaked,' and "everybody knows our weakness now"......

http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/kstatmeter.gif

microwave_oven
03-02-2006, 02:54 PM
:lmao: at this thead.

THe Pistons lose one game after the all-star break, and it's because we've "peaked,' and "everybody knows our weakness now"......

You are sweating, aren't you?

DisplacedKnick
03-02-2006, 03:01 PM
I'm with kstat on this one. 8-2 over their last 10 and just lost a road game to a good team and they're diving?

Now it wouldn't suprise me if at some point they went through a stretch where they lose, say, 5 of 8. Most teams do that at some point of the season. But the only things that may keep them from winning the title IMO are injuries or the Spurs. SA has found themselves and are playing right at Detroit's level. There can always be upsets but right now it looks to me like everyone else in the league is battling from 3rd on down.

And yes, I know Dallas and Phoenix look real strong right now but neither has shown anything in the playoffs yet.

CableKC
03-02-2006, 03:02 PM
I have no idea whether the Pissons have peaked or not. But I can say with certainty that one of the sure signs of a team in decline is beginning to count on being able to "turn it on" when the "time comes". That only works for awhile. (not that I'm thinking they have been doing that, just responding to your post)
You're right here.......no team should be able to "turn it off or on" and expect to be win a championship. Its just that when I look at some of their games.....they seem to either be too lazy ( and still pull out a win ) or dominating against playoff teams to the point where it seems like a joke. They can go into the lockerroom down by 10 points...then come out....put up the same amount of points in the 2nd half as they do in the 1st half....but lock down their opponents and pull out a win.

And this is the one constant that I see with them ( especially from Rip, Billups and Sheed ) and I see this with every game they play in.....its their ability to execute when they need to.....on the offensive and defensive end. Clearly it doesn't work all the time ( like in the loss to the Nuggets yesterday night )...but we've seen it before from them. That's why we....or much less anyone...should not sleep on them...whether it is in the playoffs or the 4th QTR.

Kstat
03-02-2006, 03:05 PM
I'm with kstat on this one. 8-2 over their last 10 and just lost a road game to a good team and they're diving?

Now it wouldn't suprise me if at some point they went through a stretch where they lose, say, 5 of 8. Most teams do that at some point of the season. But the only things that may keep them from winning the title IMO are injuries or the Spurs. SA has found themselves and are playing right at Detroit's level. There can always be upsets but right now it looks to me like everyone else in the league is battling from 3rd on down.

And yes, I know Dallas and Phoenix look real strong right now but neither has shown anything in the playoffs yet.


Rim, the best thing about all that, is this.....

The Nuggets needed Kenyon Martin to hit TWO three-pointers in the last 6 minutes to put us away. Take those away, and we probably win anyway.

Lord Helmet
03-02-2006, 03:12 PM
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/kstatmeter.gif
So right.

Shade
03-02-2006, 03:52 PM
LOL, the K-Stat Meter seems to be stuck at "cocky." :laugh:

Anyway, any chance of the Pistons running the table to finish tied with the Bulls at 72-10? That's only 25 wins in a row. Hell, the Lakers won 33 in a row once... ;)

rexnom
03-02-2006, 04:29 PM
What is this talk of the Pistons having a weak bench too? They're bench is pretty good. They got solid guys. The thing is that they don't play them enough because they have FOUR all-stars and a guy who is an excellent defender, hustler, and nightmarish matchup. Pistons are going to be tough to get through this year. I think the only team that might be able to do it are the Spurs. I hesitate to say Mavs too but I probably will because of their offensive depth.

FreshPrince22
03-02-2006, 04:44 PM
Rim, the best thing about all that, is this.....

The Nuggets needed Kenyon Martin to hit TWO three-pointers in the last 6 minutes to put us away. Take those away, and we probably win anyway.

Seriously... with 5:37 to go in the fourth it was a 6 point game (82-88), and the Pistons were surging. Then K Mart hit TWO three pointers in a row. TWO!!!. Both were as the 24 second shot clock expired, and one was after he threw the ball to himself (should have been a TO). Even Ruben Patterson hit his first three of the year (also as the shot clock expired).

When that stuff happens you know this was a game the Pistons were supposed to lose. I've never seen anything like that in my life.

GO!!!!!
03-02-2006, 04:45 PM
I love Kstat as much as the next man, but can't you add a post that’s constructive instead of nit picking threw every thing Mckey Said and making fun of it, I thought it was a well constructed thread and you have yet to reply in a manner that Mckey and the rest of the forum expects

It'd be nice if you made your own post with your views instead of dissecting McKeys views and imposing your comments over his post

PacerMan
03-02-2006, 04:46 PM
:lmao: at this thead.

THe Pistons lose one game after the all-star break, and it's because we've "peaked,' and "everybody knows our weakness now"......

I've never seen so much wishful thinking in a single thread in all my life.



Try 12, chief.

And Denver throws that many alley-oops almost every game, It's not as if they tried something new with us.



Congratulations on proving we're a popular team.

Good point on the wear-down effect, you know cause it sure has worked on the Spurs, Lakers and Bulls....



Flagrants have increased...from 0 to 1! Oh NOOOOOOO!



Yeah, we're scoring more points and ALLOWING FEWER POINTS, but yeah, this is such an awful style we run. Another great point.



....and going on the last two years, Indiana winning with multiple rotations sure has spelled doom for the Pistons in the playoffs.....



Here's a trend for you, and it's been going on a lot longer than the ones you mentioned: 47-10.


And you wonder why you catch flak? Why don't you go post this ***** on the PISSONS board.

Moses
03-02-2006, 04:48 PM
Seriously... with 5:37 to go in the fourth it was a 6 point game (82-88), and the Pistons were surging. Then K Mart hit TWO three pointers in a row. TWO!!!. Both were as the 24 second shot clock expired, and one was after he threw the ball to himself (should have been a TO). Even Ruben Patterson hit his first three of the year (also as the shot clock expired).

When that stuff happens you know this was a game the Pistons were supposed to lose. I've never seen anything like that in my life.
Kenyon has been working on his outside game. :laugh:

CableKC
03-02-2006, 05:07 PM
Then K Mart hit TWO three pointers in a row. TWO!!!
Yeah...no kidding....when I watched the highlights on NBA FastBreak...I was like....WTF? KMart can hit wide-open 3pt shots? When the hell did he learn to do that?

Hicks
03-02-2006, 06:09 PM
And you wonder why you catch flak? Why don't you go post this ***** on the PISSONS board.

You lower yourself by using that cheap and petty "Pissons" nick.

Miller4ever
03-02-2006, 07:53 PM
if ben wallace can hit 19-foot jumpers why kmart cant hit 3 pointers? :laugh:

GO!!!!!
03-02-2006, 08:10 PM
they must have had a sale, hit one three got another free

Moses
03-02-2006, 08:56 PM
if ben wallace can hit 19-foot jumpers why kmart cant hit 3 pointers? :laugh:
That is so true. I nearly puke in my mouth when I see Ben hit a turnaround jumper off of pure luck from 19 feet out. But I relax when I see him try it again and completely airball the shot. :)

Kstat
03-02-2006, 09:24 PM
And you wonder why you catch flak? Why don't you go post this ***** on the PISSONS board.


Nope, I think I'll keep it here :buddies:

Very original insult as well.

Kstat
03-02-2006, 09:25 PM
That is so true. I nearly puke in my mouth when I see Ben hit a turnaround jumper off of pure luck from 19 feet out. But I relax when I see him try it again and completely airball the shot. :)


Ben catches fire once a playoff series. game 2 vs Philly, game 1 vs Indiana, game 4 vs SA.... it's a little more common than K-Mart hitting multiple threes, which he does about once a season.

Not going to lie and say he's a good shooter, but he makes his jumpers about once every 6-7 games.

BabbleOn
03-02-2006, 09:54 PM
This concept has been discussed here and there this year, but last nights games--both the Pacers and the Pistons--give me reason to think that the theory that the Pistons peaked too early may have a lot of merit.

All you avid Pacers fans: I'm sure you can clearly remember the past three or four years where we start strong at the beginning of the year and the Pistons seem like a fuster-cluck in chaos, even with the great Larry Brown at the helm.

But, year end and year out, the tides would slowly change during the season. Some of those years, I was just convinced that Detroit was finally declining. Then, sure enough, the steady, persistant, fundamentals-focused Brown would get them in position for a strong run at just the right time late in the season.

Last night those of us with Direct TV were able to see the Pistons lose somewhat handily to the Nuggets. What was interesting to me was that Denver figured out how much the Pistons cheat upward on defense and force turnovers--(and more power to them if they are not kept honest). But Denver must have executed, literally, 20 or more alley-oop passes last night overtop the cheating defense.

Teams are starting to decode some of the Piston's secrets. This is one example of many trends that make me think Detroit is in for a difficult rest of the year. Here are some others:

1. Every team is shooting for the Pistons now, because of their starting so strong in the beginning. Atlanta can rarely put it all together, but they do for the Pistons. The Nuggets crowd goes crazy after beating them and its only a non-conference, regular season game. Besides going to the playoffs, the biggest thing you can do during the regular season now is beat the Pistons. Obviously, this forces Detroit to play at a strenuos high level all season--unlike their competitiors--and has the potential to really wear them down.

2. The technicals and flangrants and other attitude issues are really starting to increase. That can't continue if they expect to focus on winning and good basketball.

3. Speaking of good basketball, everybody has been just plain giddy about their free-flowing offense and high winning percentage, etc. But what I see is a team that has been let free by the coach to go their own way. At first it looks great, and many people probably still agree that amnesty from Larry Brown's chains is a great thing.

I see the exact opposite. LB would not approve of the less-disciplined offense. Many three are being jacked up before better percentage shots are explored. I have already mentioned the cheating on defense that ultimately can get you in trouble, and I don't think larry would put up with as much attitudinal and technical foul activity. This is going to catch up with them in the playoffs. I think Larry Brown will get the last laugh at the end of this year.
I don't agree with you, but I can see where you're coming from. The Pistons looked horrible against Denver, and the Pacers seem to be stable, sort of.

You mentioned fundamentals. I think the Pistons take some really bad shots, and I don't think they drive to the basket enough. LB would've never allowed some of these things.

However, our defense just now seems to be rounding into championship calibur defense, which is as fundamental as it gets. Credit Lindsey Hunter for bringing some of that intensity back, and credit Big Ben for playing his best basketball of the season over the past week or two.

In regards to "solving the Pistons," I'm not sure I'd word it that way. Our weaknesses have been proven, namely that you can beat us by out rebounding us, especially offensively. And you can beat us if you can force a fast and physical game. But that's different from solving a team.

In regards to peaking, I'll say this: The Pistons know how to pace themselves for a championship run. It's only teams that don't know what they're doing that flame out early.

And another thing. The Pistons have to be one of the smartest teams in the league. Other than taking some dumb shots (Sheed and Billups particularly), they have an amazing ability to read the defense and make the right decisions. They have a great assist to turnover ratio. A team like that will be dangerous until the very end.

I don't think the Denver game tells us anything about the Pistons that we didn't already know.

denyfizle
03-02-2006, 10:57 PM
i never have and never will declare a Flip Saunders team great until after the playoffs.

Kstat
03-02-2006, 11:05 PM
i never have and never will declare a Flip Saunders team great until after the playoffs.


You could say that about any NBA team not coached by Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, or Greg Poppovich.

Not to mention, the Pistons were already a great team before he took over.

FreshPrince22
03-03-2006, 01:46 AM
That is so true. I nearly puke in my mouth when I see Ben hit a turnaround jumper off of pure luck from 19 feet out. But I relax when I see him try it again and completely airball the shot. :)

If you watch during warm ups, you'll see that he can hit those. I've seen him hit 5-6 threes in a row warming up before games. It's all about confidence with him. That's why he'll have those big games on occassion.

Lithfan
03-03-2006, 06:52 AM
One thing about Pistons peaking and Pacers poising is clear.

Pistons have not experienced yet any injuries and Pacers did.

Imaging Rasheed/Billups injury just before the play-off series with Pacers when JO and JT are back. That will totally ruin all Piston chemistry they are having right now. And yes, McKey is right the statistics are against Pistons in this case.

Soooooo

:gopacers:

larry
03-03-2006, 08:22 AM
pistons have peaked. that peak is on a championship status. they aren't catching the bulls so they will rest and stay healthy. rest killed the colts but the series will be best of 7. they are just fine. the tittle could be anywhere. its not spurs vs. pistons by any means. dallas/miami. and many others like us. the pistons ain't da bulls, they can be beat.

waxman
03-03-2006, 10:52 AM
Whenever the Pistons lose its some flukey act of God or something. Heaven forbid the other team may have played better. Must have been the elevation in Denver.

Chest Rockwell
03-03-2006, 01:45 PM
The Pistons are going to be fine unless they run into injuries. In a seven game series, if, say, either Billups, Hamilton, or Prince, can't go, you'll have either Delfino or Lindsey Hunter in the starting lineup.

This is where Detroit is way too suspect for a championship contender. I think their front line depth is good, but at the 1/2/3 positions this team is dangerously close to falling apart due to one injury. Trading Arroyo didn't help matters.

I never root for anyone to get injured, just pointing out the possibilities.

Los Angeles
03-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Am I the only one that interpreted the original post to be about the next few years - not this year?

If you look at it that way, Kstat has said multiple times that the Pistons will peak and that the Pacers will pass them as the elite team in the east in the next few years.

I agree with him.

Since86
03-03-2006, 02:58 PM
If you watch during warm ups, you'll see that he can hit those. I've seen him hit 5-6 threes in a row warming up before games. It's all about confidence with him. That's why he'll have those big games on occassion.


You bad-mouth KMart hitting two threes, then backup Ben's shooting?

You've really drank the Kool-aid on this one.

Fool
03-03-2006, 03:13 PM
Am I the only one that interpreted the original post to be about the next few years - not this year?

If you look at it that way, Kstat has said multiple times that the Pistons will peak and that the Pacers will pass them as the elite team in the east in the next few years.

I agree with him.

Its talking about this season. He talks about the Pacers trending upward and the Pistons trending down. If he was talking in the scale of years then the Pacers are trending down.

Los Angeles
03-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Its talking about this season. He talks about the Pacers trending upward and the Pistons trending down. If he was talking in the scale of years then the Pacers are trending down.
I wrote that wrong - I should have said that I see it going past this year, but not at the exclusion of this year.

If you're watching the Pacers closely, you'll recognize that the team is not trending downward. The downward spiral began 2 years ago and hit bottom in January.

The pacers are currently trending upward, and likely for the duration.

Gamble
03-03-2006, 04:45 PM
I have one forever satisfying thought, I do not live in Detriot and
therefore do not care one ounce that the Pistons go to the Finals.
All I care about as a fan is that the Pacers are improving and I will
go to sleep safe and secure in my bed without any robberies.
:sleep:

FreshPrince22
03-03-2006, 04:47 PM
You bad-mouth KMart hitting two threes, then backup Ben's shooting?

You've really drank the Kool-aid on this one.

KMart hitting back to back bailout threes in crunch time is much different than Ben hitting an occassional 15 footer once every 6-7 games.

McKeyFan
05-19-2006, 08:23 PM
Thought I'd resurrect this post where I got crucified a few months back.

Though the Pacers obviously were not poised, I think we may have seen the Pistons peak in midseason.

McKeyFan

larry
05-19-2006, 10:20 PM
Why? I posted that even after being down 3-2 the Pistons would win and after being down 3-1 to the Lakers the Suns would win. Now it's 3-3 going back to Detroit. I'd say the Pistons will win it and then it should be a really good ECF. The Heat are way more stacked this year and they are getting Shaq some much needed rest. Cleveland isn't out just yet, but Detroit was missing confidence and I bet this helps restore there mojo.
OH BEHAVE!! The Cavs will be a force win or lose this game 7 any way. Might as well beat them why you still can, mate.

Kstat
05-19-2006, 10:31 PM
It was a silly thread then, and its still a silly thread now.

earlier this series we were playing as well as we had all season long.

So what, we peaked in game 2 of the 2nd round? :laugh:

RWB
05-20-2006, 08:54 AM
It was a silly thread then, and its still a silly thread now.

earlier this series we were playing as well as we had all season long.

So what, we peaked in game 2 of the 2nd round? :laugh:

You know Stat, sometimes the act get's old. If you disagree then so be it, but there is nothing silly about the discussion just because it involves your beloved Pistons.

You're obviously one of the best posters on this board and the majority love having you here, but please once in awhile drop the Pistons are God stance.

Shade
05-20-2006, 03:34 PM
You know Stat, sometimes the act get's old. If you disagree then so be it, but there is nothing silly about the discussion just because it involves your beloved Pistons.

You're obviously one of the best posters on this board and the majority love having you here, but please once in awhile drop the Pistons are God stance.

Quiet you! Let Kstat **** off the basketball gods again... ;) :eyebrow:

Oh, and btw:


However, the Pistons are generally better in the playoffs, though with their defense not quite as good as the past couple seasons, they may have a slightly harder time winning games if their offense isn't clicking.

:whistle:

Fool
05-21-2006, 12:36 AM
A team that relies more on its offense could have a harder time should that offense struggle ... Kreskin-like, that prediction.

McKeyFan
05-29-2006, 11:06 PM
Time to bump this thread again.

Kstat
05-29-2006, 11:07 PM
Time to bump this thread again.


THen re-title the thread as "will the Pistons not win the title this year," because the reasoning behind this thread remains ridiculous.

DisplacedKnick
05-30-2006, 07:43 AM
Time to bump this thread again.


Why? Are the Pacers playing in the ECF?

(checks ESPN.com) Nope. That means it's still one of the supidest threads I've ever read.

Keep bumping it though - there will come a time when the Pacers are actually better than the Pistons. I'm certain of it. Maybe in 3-5 years.

McKeyFan
05-30-2006, 08:38 AM
Why? Are the Pacers playing in the ECF?

(checks ESPN.com) Nope. That means it's still one of the supidest threads I've ever read.

Keep bumping it though - there will come a time when the Pacers are actually better than the Pistons. I'm certain of it. Maybe in 3-5 years.

Well, the second part about the Pacers is obviously not germaine.

But the first part is: the Pistons peaked midyear.

When I entertained the idea then, it was considered ludicrous. I still think Larry Brown is the key difference between the Pistons being in the finals or not.

SoupIsGood
05-30-2006, 09:26 AM
Why? Are the Pacers playing in the ECF?

(checks ESPN.com) Nope. That means it's still one of the supidest threads I've ever read.

Keep bumping it though - there will come a time when the Pacers are actually better than the Pistons. I'm certain of it. Maybe in 3-5 years.





Though the Pacers obviously were not poised, I think we may have seen the Pistons peak in midseason.

McKeyFan

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

McKeyFan
06-03-2006, 11:33 AM
Perhaps I've missed it but who will be the first Pistons player or even Pistons fan who will admit the obvious, the Pistons missed Larry Brown and they missed him dearly

Uncle Buck just posted the above in the Pistons/Heat game thread.

UB, I agree with you completely. Larry Brown may not be perfect, but he was key to the Piston's success. He was also the reason I originally became a Pacers fan in 1993.

Unlike this year's Pistons, Brown's teams (Knicks excluded) always seem to struggle midyear and then peak at just the right time near the end of the season.

Flip fed the kids dessert first and, of course, they loved him for it. Players may really have a difficult time with Larry Brown, but he knows what it takes to win and he drives you hard until you get there.

rexnom
06-03-2006, 11:35 AM
There's the bump!

Kestas
06-03-2006, 01:16 PM
It was a silly thread then, and its still a silly thread now.

earlier this series we were playing as well as we had all season long.

So what, we peaked in game 2 of the 2nd round? :laugh:

judging by what I read on this board, Pistons exhausted themselves too early, because of a short bench (or a rather weak usage of a bench or something). I don't know, that's the impression.. if that's the case, then coach or managers are responsable..
I mean, Miami.. they did not look like somebody who could stop Pistons in the regullar reason.. two stars team.. Pistons, on the other hand, had a huge support in Europe due to their playing style.. but it looks as if they simply ran out of gas..

DisplacedKnick
06-03-2006, 01:40 PM
For now I'll venture my opinion that LB was able to focus the team for the playoffs better than Flip. We also know, from Detroit's title season, that LB REALLY knows how to counteract a team with Shaq, a perimeter top-5 player and a bunch of also-rans.

Obviously, I don't know this to be true but based on the difference in playoff success between the two coaches through their careers, I believe it. I also can't see LB letting the Cavs take them to 7 games which was as big of a factor as anything.

Slick Pinkham
06-03-2006, 02:16 PM
I mean, Miami.. they did not look like somebody who could stop Pistons in the regullar reason.. two stars team.. Pistons, on the other hand, had a huge support in Europe due to their playing style.. but it looks as if they simply ran out of gas..

Miami was better than Detroit last year but Wade and Shaq were hurt in the playoffs and they lost in 7 games despite having home court.

Since last year, Wade is better, they have a better bench, and a coaching upgrade. Were it not for Shaq, Zo, J-Will, Posey all missing a month or so and Wade missing 7 games, they might have had a better record this year too. The injuries were especially rough given all the roster changes.

Fatigue was a huge factor, but I reject the notion that Detroit has better talent and a better team.

Kestas
06-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Fatigue was a huge factor, but I reject the notion that Detroit has better talent and a better team.

you can reject whatever you want, but if there was a poll on this forum, say, two or three months ago, asking who will win this conference, Pistons would walk away with it easily and I would also like to know what your vote would look like ;) I mean, everytime we talked about international competition you suggested that Pistons as they are would win Olympics (which is BS, but nevermind). look at them now.. lost to Wade (sucked during Olympics as the whole of USA team) and far-from-his-best Shaq.
imho..
anyways, the better team won. I personally couldn't care less about any of them ;)
let's hope this time next year we'll be talking about Pacers instead of these losers. and I mean talking in a postive light, of course.

rexnom
06-03-2006, 04:13 PM
Funny thing, as much as McKey fan has been poked fun at these past months, he's looking better and better. Bill Simmons basically came out with the same theory in his last column (except for the Pacers part). And I think a lot of experts will draw similar conclusions regarding this Piston team.

Kstat
06-03-2006, 04:35 PM
Next time we win a few games in a row in november, we should probably start purposely losing.

You know, wouldnt want to peak too early, or anything....

Slick Pinkham
06-04-2006, 02:09 PM
you can reject whatever you want, but if there was a poll on this forum, say, two or three months ago, asking who will win this conference, Pistons would walk away with it easily and I would also like to know what your vote would look like ;)


I was wrong, lots of us were. I was writing off the Heat after two bad losses in Chicago in round 1.