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Unclebuck
03-01-2006, 11:10 PM
I only have a minute, so I have to keep it brief.

I'm very surprised the Pacers won tonight. When I heard AJ wasn't going to play, when I saw DH go down with an ankle injury, when I saw Peja having an off night shooting, I thought the Pacers would lose by double digits.

But Jax probably played his best game of the season, not just his shooting or scoring but he was very active.

Jeff played his usual game, getting tons of rebounds, but Harrison was the key, his play early in the 4th quarter gave the Pacers the lift they needed. So glad I never gave up on him.

I still can't believe the Pacers won.

Slick Pinkham
03-01-2006, 11:15 PM
Sarunas was great tonight, and Jack, and of course HULK playing hurt and being active after their bigs were killing us early.

There was every opportunity to just roll over and say "too much, too injured, on the road, who can guard Arenas and Jamison, Peja's off, Freddie's not on either..."

best road win of the year I think

D-BONE
03-01-2006, 11:16 PM
Agreed. I thought things looked bleak. Even at the half having given up over 50 to an explosive offensive team. I was dreading the second half. Essentially, everyone who saw the floor contributed to the victory. I hope DH can continue to build on this. What did they tell him while he was suspended? And how about how we just seized control down the stretch? Props to Saras, too.

Ralph Snart
03-01-2006, 11:17 PM
I thought we had no chance too, and it would be one of those games where we were always 3-8 points behind, but could never get over the hump.

I'm very impressed that we've won, especially against the Wizards at home. Down the stretch we executed when it mattered.

bulletproof
03-01-2006, 11:17 PM
Always enjoy your insights, UB, but does anyone know what the hell happened to Peck?

rabid
03-01-2006, 11:18 PM
Runi with 39 minutes (has he ever played this many minutes in a game? College and international games are only 40 min), 14 pts, 11 assists, 2 turnovers.

Not bad...

purdue101
03-01-2006, 11:20 PM
DH was amazing down the stretch along with saras. if DH can keep his head straight he's going to be a special player. a guy with his size, athletic ability, and soft touch is rare.

anyone else cringe everytime rick gave saras a breather? eddie gill was mud. how is this guy in the NBA???

ghost
03-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Finally a decent game by Runi. Out-manned, out-reffed and on the road - that just a right recipe for him. I just hope that this game will help bring his shooting touch back.
Impressive and very useful win.

Slick Pinkham
03-01-2006, 11:21 PM
watching Eddie Gill stink it up in the first half, I was ready to throw the remote control if Saras had NOT played 39 minutes!

Ralph Snart
03-01-2006, 11:23 PM
watching Eddie Gill stink it up in the first half, I was ready to throw the remote control if Saras had NOT played 39 minutes!

There' s a reason he's our 12th man, he's just a warm body. Physically fit, but still a warm body.

hoopsforlife
03-01-2006, 11:24 PM
Eddie Gill can really shoot the ball. Can't hit anything, but he can really shoot it. :)

Sarunas was very good tonight but David Harrison was the reason we won the game. His blocks were great. That guy is a beast. Some of his picks were like hitting a brick wall. literally.

Jackson was hot and Saras set him up nicely. Fred couldn't hit his shot but DH was there for rebounds.

I really enjoyed tonights game. finally. :)

bulletproof
03-01-2006, 11:25 PM
There was a play in the 4th where Runi passed it across court to Freddie who then dished it to Jackson who then drained the three (or something like that). But I liked how Jackson high-fived everyone. You can tell these guys really enjoy playing with one another. Hulk's follow-up of Freddie's missed shot to seal the win could be a defining moment for him.

rabid
03-01-2006, 11:25 PM
In Gill's defense, he did work his butt off and actually played decent defense while he was on the court.

He was left with many wide-open shots, most (all?) of which he missed, which, of course, explains why he got so many wide-open shots.

In short, he put forth a lot of effort but tried way too hard to impress on offense.

hoopsforlife
03-01-2006, 11:27 PM
He actually stopped looking for his shot in the 3rd and played better.

SoupIsGood
03-01-2006, 11:27 PM
I watched the fourth and a little before it, and David was just chewing up Wizards and spittin' em out the whole time. :D :happydanc

hoopsforlife
03-01-2006, 11:28 PM
There was a play in the 4th where Runi passed it across court to Freddie who then dished it to Jackson who then drained the three (or something like that). But I liked how Jackson high-fived everyone. You can tell these guys really enjoy playing with one another. Hulk's follow-up of Freddie's missed shot to seal the win could be a defining moment for him.

I think it was Fred to Runi to Jax. I know Runi made the pass to Jax. It's on espn highlights. Great play. Got everybody fired up. I thought that was the key point of the game.

Fireball Kid
03-01-2006, 11:29 PM
Bless Eddie Gill's heart. You can't question his effort.

tinsley#11
03-01-2006, 11:36 PM
Free throw shooting that well for this team is huge...considering the way we shot free throws at the beginning of the season! It was a good win and now its time to overthrow the Cavs for the 4th spot.

Will Galen
03-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Always enjoy your insights, UB, but does anyone know what the hell happened to Peck?

He's posting every once in a while. Just hasn't started any in a while.

Kegboy
03-01-2006, 11:40 PM
Gill's shot has been hurting all year. He used to be a decent shooter. That said, he only took one bad shot, a Jackson-esque pullup early in the shot clock. Every other shot he took was in the flow of the offense, most of them on passouts. And he worked his *** off on D. Arenas didn't get shots on him, like with Cabbage and Freddie.

Cabbage played very well tonight. That's a tough position, playing with guys you're not used to playing with. He made some stupid mistakes early, but settled down. I think having Fred in there gave him more of a comfort zone.

Since Peck's MIA, I'll give Harrison the "real man" award for tonight. Nice job.

I've got to say, this year has certainly proven to me that that "Eddie Jordan was the brains behind the Nets" was total bull. Byron has not only proven this year that he's a quality coach, but Jordan has called two very poor games against us. Very poor. There's no reason they should have lost this game. I know he's got some idiot players, but good god man.

Will Galen
03-01-2006, 11:42 PM
We had several players that played well, but the reason we won was going 26for 26 at the line. We only hit all our free throws about once every other year.

SoupIsGood
03-01-2006, 11:47 PM
We had several players that played well, but the reason we won was going 26for 26 at the line. We only hit all our free throws about once every other year.

That's pretty amazing, considering Hulk and his 30 % road FT rating shot at least 4 fts....

Jermaniac
03-02-2006, 12:00 AM
I hate on Sarunas alot but tonight he played real well judging by the stats.

Big win by the Pacers and my school who is going to the City Championship.

Kegboy
03-02-2006, 12:01 AM
I hope Runi didnt break his ankles, damn he got crossed up bad in the first.

He is what he is. I'll say one thing, though. If anyone who saw Cabbage's D followed by Gill's D tries to argue that Cabbage is an adequate defender, you just go ahead and slap that Billy Madison quote right on their ***.

sixthman
03-02-2006, 12:04 AM
In fairness to Eddie Gill, as little action as he sees no wonder he can't hit anything. The Wiz played off him so I guess he had to shoot, but Eddie's approach tonight reminded me of Tinsley in his bleakest days a few years ago.

This was absolutely a wonderful win. A statement game and gut check and our guys passed with flying colors. Props all-around.

JBones19
03-02-2006, 12:20 AM
The thing that I liked most about this game tonight was (other than Hulk) the fact that it seemed like Peja had an "off" night but still somehow managed to get 19pts and 9reb. THAT is solid.

-J

waterjater
03-02-2006, 01:58 AM
I only have a minute, so I have to keep it brief.

I'm very surprised the Pacers won tonight. When I heard AJ wasn't going to play, when I saw DH go down with an ankle injury, when I saw Peja having an off night shooting, I thought the Pacers would lose by double digits.

But Jax probably played his best game of the season, not just his shooting or scoring but he was very active.

Jeff played his usual game, getting tons of rebounds, but Harrison was the key, his play early in the 4th quarter gave the Pacers the lift they needed. So glad I never gave up on him.

I still can't believe the Pacers won.


Yeah, I can't believe it either. Just didn't seem like we had a chance throughout until David turned it around with some great blocks, screens and scoring.

Man, David played awesome. After he got that cheap illegal screen foul, he didn't sulk, complain or lose his composure.

He just came down, got a huge block, scored and got another huge block! That's the way to channel your frustration. Take it out on the other team by RAISING your level of play. I love that he didn't take any crap from Arenas and made him pay for trying to draw fouls! Beautiful!! Hope to see more of it.


water

Suaveness
03-02-2006, 02:10 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260301027


WASHINGTON (AP) -- After moonlighting with middle-age hacks the night before, David Harrison played through a gimpy ankle to give the undermanned Indiana Pacers a lift.

Harrison, who sprained his left ankle in the second quarter, scored 10 of his 12 points in the fourth to lead the Pacers to a 99-93 win over Washington on Wednesday night.

"I never question Harrison's toughness," Indiana coach Rick Carlisle said. "If anything sometimes you have to convince him that he's got to come out of the game. He's a guy who loves to play.

"Last night at 7 o'clock I got a call that he was in the health club playing 5-on-5 with a bunch of 40- and 50-something-year-old guys. A couple of our staff people tried to get him off the court, and he wouldn't come. I had to go down there myself and talk him out of playing."


Teehee.

Lithfan
03-02-2006, 05:41 AM
Please give some credit to Saras for Hulk's good game too.

Hulk is basically living on the Saras passes.

When the last time pacers PG had a double double?

He envolves other players and makes them better.

Those who understand basketball will agree that this was the first game he showed what he can do if coach will trust him.

He is more floor general than anybody esle on this team. He just needs the ball in his hands. Not to play iso, but to make other players involved. Hopefully Rick got the message.

SoupIsGood
03-02-2006, 07:21 AM
Please give some credit to Saras for Hulk's good game too.

Hulk is basically living on the Saras passes.

When the last time pacers PG had a double double?

He envolves other players and makes them better.

Those who understand basketball will agree that this was the first game he showed what he can do if coach will trust him.

He is more floor general than anybody esle on this team. He just needs the ball in his hands. Not to play iso, but to make other players involved. Hopefully Rick got the message.


Or.... maybe Saras is living off the space David creates?

SoupIsGood
03-02-2006, 07:21 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260301027


WASHINGTON (AP) -- After moonlighting with middle-age hacks the night before, David Harrison played through a gimpy ankle to give the undermanned Indiana Pacers a lift.

Harrison, who sprained his left ankle in the second quarter, scored 10 of his 12 points in the fourth to lead the Pacers to a 99-93 win over Washington on Wednesday night.

"I never question Harrison's toughness," Indiana coach Rick Carlisle said. "If anything sometimes you have to convince him that he's got to come out of the game. He's a guy who loves to play.

"Last night at 7 o'clock I got a call that he was in the health club playing 5-on-5 with a bunch of 40- and 50-something-year-old guys. A couple of our staff people tried to get him off the court, and he wouldn't come. I had to go down there myself and talk him out of playing."


Teehee.

:lmao:

D-BONE
03-02-2006, 07:57 AM
Please give some credit to Saras for Hulk's good game too.

Hulk is basically living on the Saras passes.

When was the last time pacers PG had a double double?

He envolves other players and makes them better.

Those who understand basketball will agree that this was the first game he showed what he can do if coach will trust him.

He is more floor general than anybody esle on this team. He just needs the ball in his hands. Not to play iso, but to make other players involved. Hopefully Rick got the message.

PG double-double: Anthony Johnson 13 pts. w/ 10 assists on Sunday Feb. 26th vs. NJ.

Not a cut on Saras by any means. He was outstanding last night. I'd love to see this more from him. I'm still optimistic that w/ continued experience he will be the type of player for the Pacers that he was in Europe as far as impact and success.

Lithfan
03-02-2006, 08:20 AM
Or.... maybe Saras is living off the space David creates?

Both are true of course....

Its symbiosis




PG double-double: Anthony Johnson 13 pts. w/ 10 assists on Sunday Feb. 26th vs. NJ.

Not a cut on Saras by any means. He was outstanding last night. I'd love to see this more from him. I'm still optimistic that w/ continued experience he will be the type of player for the Pacers that he was in Europe as far as impact and success.


Tinsley also had one this season.
12 pt 11 ast vs. Charlotte 11/18/05
So its 1 double double for each of the Pacers PG.

We gonna have a problem here. Unless...?

How can 3 good PG's get alone on one team?:confused:

Unclebuck
03-02-2006, 08:23 AM
Tonight's game made up for one of the 3 or 4 games the pacers lost because of poor free throw shooting.

hoopsforlife
03-02-2006, 09:02 AM
Please give some credit to Saras for Hulk's good game too.

Hulk is basically living on the Saras passes.

When the last time pacers PG had a double double?

He envolves other players and makes them better.

Those who understand basketball will agree that this was the first game he showed what he can do if coach will trust him.

He is more floor general than anybody esle on this team. He just needs the ball in his hands. Not to play iso, but to make other players involved. Hopefully Rick got the message.

I have to agree with you on this. Even before, when Saras was the backup point guard to AJ, David was the benificiary of extremely good passing. Those two work well together but JO would fill the same role as David if Saras gets the chance to play with him when he returns. JO just doesn't like to play physical like David does. Who ever coined the term "Hulk" for David was spot on. They could paint him green and remake the movie. The man can jump and fly around.

He was fun to watch last night. :)

Kegboy
03-02-2006, 12:03 PM
In fairness to coach Jordan,

When that one guard (It was right in front of me, but I couldnt see who it was) got Pollard on him on a switch, he lost the game right there.

He should have pumped and taken the ball to the hole, but instead he dove into Pollard and threw up a airball from 3 point land. That lost the game for them right there, IMO

Jordan admitted in post-game that he was out-coached. But sometimes I don't know how much blame I should really lay at his feet. Arenas is a great player, but he does so many stupid things. I find it infuriating to watch him. Daniels plays the same way. I think Washington not only misses Hughes, but misses guys like Dixon and Blake, who, while not being talented, at least ran a steady offense.

Mordecaii
03-02-2006, 12:32 PM
I didn't get a chance to actually WATCH the game, I was stuck staring at my computer screen looking at the Yahoo gamecast thingie... But over a short span in the fourth quarter, it seemed like Freddie took over and made quite a few FT's in a row... I thought that really helped us win. I find it interesting that we often have our "backup" players finish games, especially Fred, Hulk, and Danger.

MagicRat
03-02-2006, 12:37 PM
I agree.

BTW, who is the player I was talking about. I couldnt see his jersey from my seat. Was that Gil?

I don't know if it's the play you're thinking of, but Antonio Daniels airballed sort of horrible shot from the corner and stood around complaining to the officials while Freddie raced to the other end and drew a foul.....

Suaveness
03-02-2006, 12:49 PM
Tonight's game made up for one of the 3 or 4 games the pacers lost because of poor free throw shooting.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. No matter how big the game was, if you have other opportunities to win games because of free throws, you have to do it. This gets one back, but those other games we shoudl have won.

waxman
03-02-2006, 01:34 PM
I don't know if it's the play you're thinking of, but Antonio Daniels airballed sort of horrible shot from the corner and stood around complaining to the officials while Freddie raced to the other end and drew a foul.....


Yeah... Daniels tried to draw a foul by bringing his shooting motion right up into Pollard... but the ref didn't buy it. And then jawed the ref while we went 5 on 4.

317Kim
03-02-2006, 01:41 PM
I liked how we came back :nod: It reminded me of the first time we played the Wiz and were down double digits before coming back and blowing them out. Once Jack hit that 3 to make it 83-82, we hit the shots and we needed, and got key stops while the Wiz got frantic.

HULK WAS MVP OF THE GAME! :D He came back after he sprained his ankle and just lit it up! :woot: GO HULK! :woot:

CableKC
03-02-2006, 01:49 PM
Its probably been said before....but I really like the line that Harrison put up yesterday night.

100% FG and FT shooting.....12 points.....9 rebounds....3 Blocks...all in 28
minutes.

All this against a frontline of Haywood, Etan and Jamison.....not bad.

McKeyFan
03-02-2006, 02:13 PM
There was a play in the 4th where Runi passed it across court to Freddie who then dished it to Jackson who then drained the three (or something like that). But I liked how Jackson high-fived everyone. You can tell these guys really enjoy playing with one another. Hulk's follow-up of Freddie's missed shot to seal the win could be a defining moment for him.

Fred to Runi, who made a quick touch pass to Jax. Runi's pass was the critical one, as he could have shot it himself but provided a much more open opportunity for Jax.

And, yeah, Jax was high fiving since he got to sink it. But it was Runi leading the cheers, as usual.

Just think we need to give credit where credit is due. Runi provides a lot more out there than just stats.

McKeyFan
03-02-2006, 02:21 PM
Yeah, I can't believe it either. Just didn't seem like we had a chance throughout until David turned it around with some great blocks, screens and scoring.

Man, David played awesome. After he got that cheap illegal screen foul, he didn't sulk, complain or lose his composure.

He just came down, got a huge block, scored and got another huge block! That's the way to channel your frustration. Take it out on the other team by RAISING your level of play. I love that he didn't take any crap from Arenas and made him pay for trying to draw fouls! Beautiful!! Hope to see more of it.


water

In my opinion it was definitely a foul by Hulk. He kind of punched him with his shoulder as the defender went by.

But your point about him responding the right way--with a better performance--I totally agree with.

In fact, I pointed out to someone during the Pistons game that Ben Wallace did the same against Hulk. Ben had a call or two not go his way, go fouled but no whistle, etc., but had the maturity to just respond by increasing his effort. That same game, David responded to bad calls or no whistles by whining and getting a technical.

Could it be that David learned something from that game? I sure hope so. That would mean he's a quick learner and good things are in store!

McKeyFan
03-02-2006, 02:24 PM
Its symbiosis.

Is English your first language? If not, that's a pretty good word you gave us there.

FrenchConnection
03-02-2006, 03:16 PM
Is English your first language? If not, that's a pretty good word you gave us there.

FYI, Symbiosis is the type of word that exists in most European languages.

All this talk about Saras led me to go back and look at the stats. Everyone is talking about the double double, but it is even better than that. I would say that this and AJ's game in NJ are two of the better PG performances that we have had all year.

Saras has 14 points on 8 total shots. He only missed 3 shots the whole game. In fact, he had more assists (11) than shot attempts, and his performance distributing the ball last night was better than the 11 assists indicates. AJ had a similar game (13 points on 9 shots with 10 assists). In both games, the PG only had 2 TOs. This is good stuff, KEEP IT UP!!

ChicagoJ
03-02-2006, 03:54 PM
A great performance by David. Without his dominance of the paint over the last sixteen minutes, we were going to lose that game. He helped us snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. This was a victory that our other players, in spite of some good statistics like SJax's shooting (for a change) and FT shooting and assists were not going to deliver.

Without David's gusty performance and superior post presence at both ends of the court, we lose. Did you all notice how many layups and offensive rebounds the Wizards got during the brief stretch when David went to the bench and Foster replaced him at around the four minute mark? I'd love to hear UB explain again why Foster's quickness is preferable to David's strength? :devil:

+ + + + +

But then I saw this... (:rolleyes: )


Please give some credit to Saras for Hulk's good game too.

Hulk is basically living on the Saras passes.

When the last time pacers PG had a double double?

He envolves other players and makes them better.

Those who understand basketball will agree that this was the first game he showed what he can do if coach will trust him.

He is more floor general than anybody esle on this team. He just needs the ball in his hands. Not to play iso, but to make other players involved. Hopefully Rick got the message.

That's silly. And wrong.

David absolutely dominated the paint over the last 16-18 minutes of the game. He was far-and-away the best player on the court during the second half.

David's paint presence had nothing to do with any of the guards on the court. Nothing.

Most importantly, David is really taking care of the defensive paint - covering for when our guards let somebody get away like the block on RJ the other night and the block on Arenas last night. And forcing the opposing post players out of the paint. And he's getting more rebounds for himself while still making it easy for his teammates to get rebounds with his boxouts. Did you see some of the screens he was setting?

There's not really a single element of David's game that you can attribute to a guard right now. David deserves all the credit for the way he's stepping up. And if David doesn't step up last night, it doesn't matter how well or how bad any of the guards played, we were going to lose that game.

David. :bowdown: David. :star: David. :champions :harrison:. :dance: David. :sunshine:

Two other suggestions, you are at a forum with a lot of Hoosiers, so saying things like "Those who understand basketball" is quite patronizing. Nobody understands basketball like Indiana basketball fans, so save us the "lesson".

Two, "When the last time pacers PG had a double double?"... Sure you're a Johnny-come-lately as a Pacers fan, but you should keep in mind that (1) our backup, AJ, just had one, and (2) Tinsley has had a bunch of them.

Amazingly, all our new friends seem to forget that we needed insurance because Tinsley, for as great as he is, just can't stay healthy. But we've got a high-caliber starting PG on the roster. It isn't like we're used to poor play from our PG, its quite the opposite... what we all really want is for Tinsley to be healthy once-and-for-all.

+ + + + + + +

As for David's fouls, the 'moving screen' was ticky-tacky, although I'd like to see it from the opposite side of the court. But that's where Quinn was, and he said David was clearly set. The forearm to the face (from Etan Thomas, I think) was just a horrible call against David, and I love how he just stepped up his game from those two call on...

Lithfan
03-02-2006, 04:14 PM
A great performance by David. Without his dominance of the paint over the last sixteen minutes, we were going to lose that game. He helped us snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. This was a victory that our other players, in spite of some good statistics like SJax's shooting (for a change) and FT shooting and assists were not going to deliver.

Without David's gusty performance and superior post presence at both ends of the court, we lose. Did you all notice how many layups and offensive rebounds the Wizards got during the brief stretch when David went to the bench and Foster replaced him at around the four minute mark? I'd love to hear UB explain again why Foster's quickness is preferable to David's strength? :devil:

+ + + + +

But then I saw this... (:rolleyes: )



That's silly. And wrong.

David absolutely dominated the paint over the last 16-18 minutes of the game. He was far-and-away the best player on the court during the second half.

David's paint presence had nothing to do with any of the guards on the court. Nothing.

Most importantly, David is really taking care of the defensive paint - covering for when our guards let somebody get away like the block on RJ the other night and the block on Arenas last night. And forcing the opposing post players out of the paint. And he's getting more rebounds for himself while still making it easy for his teammates to get rebounds with his boxouts. Did you see some of the screens he was setting?

There's not really a single element of David's game that you can attribute to a guard right now. David deserves all the credit for the way he's stepping up. And if David doesn't step up last night, it doesn't matter how well or how bad any of the guards played, we were going to lose that game.

David. :bowdown: David. :star: David. :champions :harrison:. :dance: David. :sunshine:

Two other suggestions, you are at a forum with a lot of Hoosiers, so saying things like "Those who understand basketball" is quite patronizing. Nobody understands basketball like Indiana basketball fans, so save us the "lesson".

Two, "When the last time pacers PG had a double double?"... Sure you're a Johnny-come-lately as a Pacers fan, but you should keep in mind that (1) our backup, AJ, just had one, and (2) Tinsley has had a bunch of them.

Amazingly, all our new friends seem to forget that we needed insurance because Tinsley, for as great as he is, just can't stay healthy. But we've got a high-caliber starting PG on the roster. It isn't like we're used to poor play from our PG, its quite the opposite... what we all really want is for Tinsley to be healthy once-and-for-all.

+ + + + + + +

As for David's fouls, the 'moving screen' was ticky-tacky, although I'd like to see it from the opposite side of the court. But that's where Quinn was, and he said David was clearly set. The forearm to the face (from Etan Thomas, I think) was just a horrible call against David, and I love how he just stepped up his game from those two call on...

Well man, what can I say.

You sure put some effort into it.

But as UB says, I'll keep it short: I didn't expect anything else from you.

You are anti-Saras anti-European fans and anti-me. But why man, why? Are You paying me back for something?

By saying those who understand bball, I sarcastically blamed those who think otherwise in incompetency. As for Harrison eating from the Saras hand (and vice versa of course), most people here have recognized it even before this game just read this and Pecks posts.

Lithfan
03-02-2006, 04:24 PM
Is English your first language? If not, that's a pretty good word you gave us there.

Thanks for the compliment but French is right. There are plenty English or more precisely Latin words that are international.

By the way, FrenchConnection, thank you for not taking anti-Saras side by the default after all this "Saras said" story.;)

D-BONE
03-02-2006, 04:55 PM
Well, at least people can argue about who was the game MVP or who set up who or whatever else essentially relating to who are the best INDIVIDUAL players to feed their own agendas. I say that b/c it means a lot of players had outstanding games and we won. The most important element in this is the chemistry right now. As long as the guys on the team don't get so caught up in who's the better or best player as the discussion on here seems to, we'll be fine.

ChicagoJ
03-02-2006, 04:55 PM
But as UB says, I'll keep it short: I didn't expect anything else from you.

What does this mean? When has my good friend and arch-nemesis UncleBuck ever said something like that?


You are anti-Saras anti-European fans and anti-me. But why man, why? Are You paying me back for something?

I did a search after SwissExpress accused me of the same. At that time, I had only replied in forty threads that even had the name Saras in them. And many of those replied didn't even have anything to do with him. I understand my anti-Ron reputation. This one, I just don't get.

I'm not anti-Saras, hey I'm much more anti-SJax than anti-Saras. :blush: But except for my really cranky days ("Fifteen new players," for example) I really like Tinsley (when he's healthy of course) and wish he'd come back healthy and put the whole discussion to rest.

I'm not really anti-European fans but there are a lot of us that have been fans of this team for a long, long time that are tired of hearing that if Rick (who has plenty of flaws, don't get me wrong) would just rebuild the game plan around the rookie that everything would be right with the world. This team, in spite of a horribly messed-up lockerroom has made fairly deep playoff runs the past two seasons, and I expect with a healthy Tinsley and O'Neal that they'll make a competitive run in this season's playoffs. So the, "Shame on Rick for not adjusting to Saras" platform tells me that there are a bunch of Saras fans that don't really care about the Pacers other than this is his current team. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I only care about Saras because his current team is the Pacers. He's nothing more than one piece of the puzzle. So I probably am "anti-Fanboy" or whatever you want to call it. I don't mean that to be degrading but I'm too tired to think of the right word.

I'm not anti-you at all but you've assumed the leading "Fanboy" role in the past few days. Its nothing personal at all but let's face it, you were writing to get a reaction from somebody and I was put-off just enough by something I felt to be patronizing that I took the bait.

We're good... you're trying to show me the world through a Saras fans' eyes and I'm trying to show you the world through a Pacers fans' eyes. I don't know if I've succeeded at "not being rude" or not, but having a difference of opinion or viewpoint is what makes message boards go 'round.

I'll bet we've got more in common than you think: I think Arvydas Sabonis was the best player I've ever seen play.

waxman
03-02-2006, 04:59 PM
Its Good to see David starting to reach the potential he gave us glimmers of last season,,, before he got injured. His combination of size, power, athleticism, speed, and agility .... seems inhuman... and at times inhumane.

Since86
03-02-2006, 05:15 PM
You've just got to get used to Jay.

When I first started posting here, everything Jay posted irked me, but over time you realize that he's way more passionate about the actual logo of the Pacers, than who is wearing it. The actual organization is like his his country, and he reps his colors very well. He comes off as anti, or even pissy when he posts, but outside of ****** I don't think I've really ever saw him go at someone mean-spirited.

I know you don't know who ****** (Earl) is, but he deserved everything he had coming to him. That guy could make the Pope cuss.

Since86
03-02-2006, 05:16 PM
HAHAHA ****** is now a non-usable word.

That's great.

penn13
03-02-2006, 05:29 PM
Just when I was smellin what your steppin in you post this..


I'll bet we've got more in common than you think: I think Arvydas Sabonis was the best player I've ever seen play.

Please explain.

FrenchConnection
03-02-2006, 05:35 PM
Just when I was smellin what your steppin in you post this..



Please explain.


I'll bet we've got more in common than you think: I think Arvydas Sabonis was the best player I've ever seen play.

I can actually agree with that, but not the NBA Sabonis, but the younger version with good knees that led the 1988 Soviet team to the gold medal. Regardless of what you think about that result, you have to admit that one could make a case for him as the best player in the world at that time. Alas, we will never know what a young Sabonis would have been like in the NBA, but I would be willing to venture that he would have been considered one of the best big men ever.

ChicagoJ
03-02-2006, 05:45 PM
Exactly what I said.

I saw Arvydas as a teenager on the Soviet team down in Bloomington. I obviously didn't see him play much before he joined the Blazers, but I think his size, skills (especially passing), and basketball IQ make him the best player I've ever seen. And, as my Dad and I discussed one night watching a Blazers/ Pacers game in Market Square Arena - after watching him once as a teenager I really wish we could've seen him in the NBA when he still had ligaments in his knees. Anyway, I think he was better than that guy most Americans say was the best player ever.

I'm not anti-Lithuania or anti-Euro at all. I also prefered Sarunas Marciulionis over Drazen Petrovic, but that's just my opinion, and I enjoyed the way both of them played the game.

Anthem
03-02-2006, 07:49 PM
You've just got to get used to Jay.

When I first started posting here, everything Jay posted irked me
That's funny. I almost never agree with Jay (although I admit I agreed with everything in this thread) but he's absolutely one of my favorite posters to read.

Kegboy
03-02-2006, 07:58 PM
You are anti-Saras anti-European fans and anti-me. But why man, why? Are You paying me back for something?

Don't listen to his long winded post. The real reason is that Jay had a quite horrid experience with a Cabbage Patch Kid when he was younger, and was terribly traumatized by the event.

ChicagoJ
03-02-2006, 08:43 PM
I did have a traumatic experience when my Mom bought Jay's_Daughter@Section204 a Cabbage Patch Kid for Christmas a couple years ago.

Ahh... from a family of all boys, to a :censored: Cabbage Patch Kid.

Anthem
03-02-2006, 08:54 PM
I did have a traumatic experience when my Mom bought Jay's_Daughter@Section204 a Cabbage Patch Kid for Christmas a couple years ago.

Ahh... from a family of all boys, to a :censored: Cabbage Patch Kid.
Bet your mom was excited, though.

Lithfan
03-03-2006, 03:54 AM
Sorry for a late answer. Please find a detailed reponse below. :-p


What does this mean? When has my good friend and arch-nemesis UncleBuck ever said something like that?


Well he in may cases started the thread with:
I'll keep it short...



I did a search after SwissExpress accused me of the same.


You see, there is no smoke without the fire... just ask FireballKid




I'm not anti-Saras, hey I'm much more anti-SJax than anti-Saras. :blush: But except for my really cranky days ("Fifteen new players," for example) I really like Tinsley (when he's healthy of course) and wish he'd come back healthy and put the whole discussion to rest.

I'm not really anti-European fans but there are a lot of us that have been fans of this team for a long, long time that are tired of hearing that if Rick (who has plenty of flaws, don't get me wrong) would just rebuild the game plan around the rookie that everything would be right with the world. So the, "Shame on Rick for not adjusting to Saras" platform tells me that there are a bunch of Saras fans that don't really care about the Pacers other than this is his current team. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I only care about Saras because his current team is the Pacers. He's nothing more than one piece of the puzzle. So I probably am "anti-Fanboy" or whatever you want to call it. I don't mean that to be degrading but I'm too tired to think of the right word.


I see what you mean. However, I think that liking Saras is by the default wanting his team to win. His stat line is less important. Its just like money. They are not important, but their quantity is. :laugh: Do you have similar proverb in US?

By the way, You are right about the platform (Shame on Rick for not adjusting to Saras). I really think it's true. And not only because I want Saras to have 15ppg 10apg stats but because I truly think it will help Pacers. And it happened only in the last game, because the only alternative was Eddie... but you've seen the result.



We're good... you're trying to show me the world through a Saras fans' eyes and I'm trying to show you the world through a Pacers fans' eyes. I don't know if I've succeeded at "not being rude" or not, but having a difference of opinion or viewpoint is what makes message boards go 'round.


That true. But..... nevermind.



I'll bet we've got more in common than you think: I think Arvydas Sabonis was the best player I've ever seen play.

Hey I feel Peace emotion here...:D
Yeah, he was great... not the greatest but may be smartest. I hated when he played in Portland though. You know, with all his bbal IQ, he played with Rasheed and Mighty Mouse. Both are passing less than SJax.

To summarize this - I understand your position and you mine, but can you please try not to boil when you see my posts? May be it really was problematic toy experience? :laugh:

By the way, can someone please explain about Cabbage patch kid? I understood that patch kid was a toy right?:confused:

hoopsforlife
03-03-2006, 07:36 AM
A great performance by David. Without his dominance of the paint over the last sixteen minutes, we were going to lose that game. He helped us snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. This was a victory that our other players, in spite of some good statistics like SJax's shooting (for a change) and FT shooting and assists were not going to deliver.

Without David's gusty performance and superior post presence at both ends of the court, we lose. Did you all notice how many layups and offensive rebounds the Wizards got during the brief stretch when David went to the bench and Foster replaced him at around the four minute mark? I'd love to hear UB explain again why Foster's quickness is preferable to David's strength? :devil:

+ + + + +

But then I saw this... (:rolleyes: )



That's silly. And wrong.

David absolutely dominated the paint over the last 16-18 minutes of the game. He was far-and-away the best player on the court during the second half.

David's paint presence had nothing to do with any of the guards on the court. Nothing.

Most importantly, David is really taking care of the defensive paint - covering for when our guards let somebody get away like the block on RJ the other night and the block on Arenas last night. And forcing the opposing post players out of the paint. And he's getting more rebounds for himself while still making it easy for his teammates to get rebounds with his boxouts. Did you see some of the screens he was setting?

There's not really a single element of David's game that you can attribute to a guard right now. David deserves all the credit for the way he's stepping up. And if David doesn't step up last night, it doesn't matter how well or how bad any of the guards played, we were going to lose that game.

David. :bowdown: David. :star: David. :champions :harrison:. :dance: David. :sunshine:

Two other suggestions, you are at a forum with a lot of Hoosiers, so saying things like "Those who understand basketball" is quite patronizing. Nobody understands basketball like Indiana basketball fans, so save us the "lesson".

Two, "When the last time pacers PG had a double double?"... Sure you're a Johnny-come-lately as a Pacers fan, but you should keep in mind that (1) our backup, AJ, just had one, and (2) Tinsley has had a bunch of them.

Amazingly, all our new friends seem to forget that we needed insurance because Tinsley, for as great as he is, just can't stay healthy. But we've got a high-caliber starting PG on the roster. It isn't like we're used to poor play from our PG, its quite the opposite... what we all really want is for Tinsley to be healthy once-and-for-all.

+ + + + + + +

As for David's fouls, the 'moving screen' was ticky-tacky, although I'd like to see it from the opposite side of the court. But that's where Quinn was, and he said David was clearly set. The forearm to the face (from Etan Thomas, I think) was just a horrible call against David, and I love how he just stepped up his game from those two call on...

"There's not really a single element of David's game that you can attribute to a guard right now. "

:bs:

ChicagoJ
03-03-2006, 10:59 AM
Okay, name one.

IMO, everything David is doing right now is because of his ability to dominate the paint without fouling.

Or do you think that guards were the real reason for Wilt's, Russell's, Shaq's, etc. success?

Hey, I was a PG, and I know that when I played with a good center it was them making me look good, and not the other way around. All I had to do was not screw up the post-entry pass.

If anything, what David is doing on the defensive end is "in spite of" the guards, he's keeping his man out of position AND intimidating the little guys when they get free.

ChicagoJ
03-03-2006, 11:13 AM
Cabbage Patch Kids are an American doll phenomenon.

They come with their own "birth certificate".

The first year they were popular (and this was back in the 1980s I think), the manufacture didn't make enough to keep up with demand that Christmas. They were selling for more than $100 each and there were long lines to buy them and crying kids and everything.

And since Saras' name sounds like "Cabbage", some of my peers decided that Cabbage Patch Kids was a cute nickname for all the new Pacers fans when Saras signed with the team. I don't think its translated well back to Europe, but it wasn't supposed to be insulting any more than "Sunshine Brigader" and "Darksider".

+ + + + + + + + + + +

I looked back at those original forty posts, and there were a decent number of them from December when Saras was starting at SG and I was defending Rick's decision to play him out of position to get him minutes. Prior to that, the only thing I really commented on was his blown defense during the Philly game the first week of the season. Where he was standing in the middle of the lane telling everyone else where to go and his man (Korver) was standing in the corner shooting wide-open 3's. So I called him bossy.

Until Saras started complaining about playing SG, I hadn't said anything else.

I'll make you a deal - if you don't patronize the long-term Pacers fans around here then I won't jump all over it. :D

Black Sox
03-03-2006, 11:27 AM
Okay, name one.

Or do you think that guards were the real reason for Wilt's, Russell's, Shaq's, etc. success?

Hey, I was a PG, and I know that when I played with a good center it was them making me look good, and not the other way around. All I had to do was not screw up the post-entry pass.

Wilt, Russell and Shaq scored on their own off their post up moves. David's stats come from put backs and off passes from saras.

Saras puts the ball where david can score, its not like he is dumping it off and letting David make a post move. Guards can make centers look good. Here is a perfect example.

ChicagoJ
03-03-2006, 12:22 PM
Fine, but David has shown that he has an arsenal of post moves - a sweet jump hook, a couple of spin moves.

We've been saying for a year and a half that David's offensive game and post moves were much further developed than his post defense and rebounding.

Lithfan
03-03-2006, 12:57 PM
Cabbage Patch Kids are an American doll phenomenon.

They come with their own "birth certificate".

The first year they were popular (and this was back in the 1980s I think), the manufacture didn't make enough to keep up with demand that Christmas. They were selling for more than $100 each and there were long lines to buy them and crying kids and everything.

And since Saras' name sounds like "Cabbage", some of my peers decided that Cabbage Patch Kids was a cute nickname for all the new Pacers fans when Saras signed with the team. I don't think its translated well back to Europe, but it wasn't supposed to be insulting any more than "Sunshine Brigader" and "Darksider".

+ + + + + + + + + + +

I looked back at those original forty posts, and there were a decent number of them from December when Saras was starting at SG and I was defending Rick's decision to play him out of position to get him minutes. Prior to that, the only thing I really commented on was his blown defense during the Philly game the first week of the season. Where he was standing in the middle of the lane telling everyone else where to go and his man (Korver) was standing in the corner shooting wide-open 3's. So I called him bossy.

Until Saras started complaining about playing SG, I hadn't said anything else.

I'll make you a deal - if you don't patronize the long-term Pacers fans around here then I won't jump all over it. :D

Deal. I don't patronize by the default, I'm too polite :blush: .
Thanks for the cabage patch kid explanation.

By the way, regarding David - if you check it, many of his field goals are indeed after Saras pass. Saras excells in passing to the big guys.

D-BONE
03-03-2006, 03:20 PM
I just don't get why it's one guy has to be responsible for his or anyone else's good play. Both points in the DH and Saras debate are valid. There's no question DH is playing great, has some post moves, and is a physical and defensive presence. He helps out Saras if he rejects or otherwise sufficiently alters a shot by Saras's man if he's beaten on D. It's also true that DH is noticeably often the recipient of precise passes for bunnies around the hoop from Saras when they run pick and roll. Likewise, the fact that Saras and other shooters are on the floor opens up the interior for DH and any other big guy for executing post maneuvers. Therein lies the symbiotic (to quote Lf) and team context in which everything occurs. Jay's comment about post-entry pass is another case in point. An integral, and often fundamentally overlooked, part of a successful post score. You've gotta have the entry, the move, and the hoop. Just cause the good C ends up with lots of points doesn't make the entry passing any less important or valuable. Ultimately, good team results come from all the individuals playing well and playing off each other. So you're both right. :buddies:

ChicagoJ
03-03-2006, 03:46 PM
I just don't get why it's one guy has to be responsible for his or anyone else's good play. Both points in the DH and Saras debate are valid.

Yeah, I didn't intend for it to be a Saras vs. David thing, although it turned into one.

Where I was originally going was that, in spite of good statistical games from SJax, Saras, FT shooting, etc., we were still losing the game until David came back with about four minutes left in the third quarter. And that's when we finally took over the game by controlling the paint. And if David hadn't played well, we'd be talking instead about how well SJax and Saras played in a losing effort. That's the difference, I guess.

We've really seen in the past two games the advantage we can have by dominating the paint. Rick's not "playing down" to the opponent anymore, which many of us were complaining about back in December and January.

D-BONE
03-03-2006, 03:57 PM
Yeah, I didn't intend for it to be a Saras vs. David thing, although it turned into one.

Where I was originally going was that, in spite of good statistical games from SJax, Saras, FT shooting, etc., we were still losing the game until David came back with about four minutes left in the third quarter. And that's when we finally took over the game by controlling the paint. And if David hadn't played well, we'd be talking instead about how well SJax and Saras played in a losing effort. That's the difference, I guess.

We've really seen in the past two games the advantage we can have by dominating the paint. Rick's not "playing down" to the opponent anymore, which many of us were complaining about back in December and January.

Definitely agree that DH's play was the most timely. And, yes, we would have lost this game without him. On the other hand, I think you can make the same statement about any number of guys. Take any one of those performances away and we lose. But that's just the beauty of how well we're playing together right now.