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View Full Version : KG trade speculation (Pacers mentioned)



rexnom
03-01-2006, 05:34 PM
Sam Smith in the Chicago Tribune:
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-060228smith,1,4475140.column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true

The above link is the article...here is what he says about Indiana (he ranks the teams from 1-10 in chances of getting KG):

"3. Indiana Pacers: They've got a big piece in Jermaine O'Neal, whom they probably would deal for someone like Garnett. Perhaps with one of their guards, like Jamaal Tinsley, Anthony Johnson or Sarunas Jasikevicius and a No. 1 pick, it would be enough for the Timberwolves to come away looking whole and with some assets."

It's speculation and Sam Smith, so get your grains of salt ready...but a fun read nonetheless.

Will Galen
03-01-2006, 05:44 PM
If JO and Tinsley isn't enough, Minny could look elsewhere.

rexnom
03-01-2006, 05:51 PM
If JO and Tinsley isn't enough, Minny could look elsewhere.

Agreed. No way we're throwing a pick in too. JO and Tinsley seems good/even for both teams.

Anthem
03-01-2006, 06:08 PM
I'm reading it differently, I guess. The only one I see needing a pick is Saras. This seems to imply they'd take JO and AJ...

Man, if they'll take AJ instead of Tinsley, you've gotta do that.

blanket
03-01-2006, 06:15 PM
A few thoughts on the article:

1) Anyone else think Elton Brand, Corey Maggette and Shaun Livingston is too high a price for KG? I can't see the Clips making that deal.

2) Two things the Pacers have over the two teams (Clips and Warriors) that Sam Smith list as having better odds at getting KG:

- A single player (JO) who comes close to a talent match with KG, and at the same position. GSW have no one, and I think most would agree that JO is better than Brand.

- perhaps more importantly, the Pacers are in the East, which I'm sure will be a factor for the TWolves when deciding where to send KG.

rexnom
03-01-2006, 06:19 PM
I would like a KG trade a lot the more I think about it because I think it would be like Miami's Shaq trade a couple years ago. You give up a lot but you get an elite player who is pretty much going to guarantee you being a contender. Also, I think KG will be effective for a long time. Even when he's older and not as athletic, the man plain knows how to play defense, rebound, pass, set screens, play team ball, etc.

All this being said, I still am extremely anxious to see what happens when JO gets back.

EDIT: Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, and Shaun Livingstone is prolly a bit too high. Also, completely agree with the assessment on the Pacers having a better shot at KG. Basically, I think that if KG is available and we want him and no one offers something ridiculous (like the Clippers deal) we should be able to get KG.

CableKC
03-01-2006, 06:36 PM
If the Clippers were to offer Brand/Maggette/Livingston.....I think it would be the type of offer that would definitely make McHale blink. I think its too much to include Maggette....as they would have already included a prospect in Livingston...but I think it depends on who the Clippers get back in return as well ( obviously getting back Madsen is cr@p filler ).

CableKC
03-01-2006, 06:39 PM
Although a JONeal+Tinsley offer is a decent starting and ending offer...I think that most teams can offer something similiar...meaning the best player on the roster as well as another starting quality player. What will tip the scales in favor of any GM wanting KG is the willingness to include either a 1st round Draft pick or one of the team's top rookies.....in our case...Granger.

NOTE - I didn't say that we should include Granger....I'm saying that I think that including him is what would make McHale think twice about any Pacers offer.

Pistoner
03-01-2006, 06:42 PM
I don't think the Wolves would trade KG for JO. If they can't win with KG, why would they think they could win with a chronically injured lesser talented player with a contract that is almost as unappealing? If they trade KG, I suspect they would do so for some 1st rounders, good young talent, and cap space. They'd have the same problem with JO that they do with KG -- no manuverability. No disrespect to JO. He is a great player, just not as good as KG and injured too much.

blanket
03-01-2006, 06:45 PM
Anyone else think the TWolves would not trade KG to another team in their own conference?

The Pacers purposefully sent Artest to a WC team. Same with the Lakers and Shaq. Heck, even the Bulls made Tom Thomas's buyout contingent on him not resigning with an EC team!

Even if KG has some say over where he goes -- and that list may not include Indiana -- I can't see the TWolves being willing to battle him 4 times a year.

CableKC
03-01-2006, 06:45 PM
I don't think the Wolves would trade KG for JO. If they can't win with KG, why would they think they could win with a chronically injured lesser talented player with a contract that is almost as unappealing? If they trade KG, I suspect they would do so for some 1st rounders, good young talent, and cap space. They'd have the same problem with JO that they do with KG -- no manuverability. No disrespect to JO. He is a great player, just not as good as KG and injured too much.
Its a longshot....but some of us can dream right? :buddies:

Roy Munson
03-01-2006, 06:46 PM
- A single player (JO) who comes close to a talent match with KG, and at the same position. GSW have no one, and I think most would agree that JO is better than Brand.
.

Whether JO is better than Brand is definitely debatable. JO needs to rebound better and use his teammates better. I think the trade value of both players would be similar.

JO's been out for most/much of the past 2 seasons. It's almost speculation now trying to figure out what kind of player he's going to be. The new makeup of the team might make him better, or it might not. We have to wait and see.

CableKC
03-01-2006, 06:55 PM
Anyone else think the TWolves would not trade KG to another team in their own conference?

The Pacers purposefully sent Artest to a WC team. Same with the Lakers and Shaq. Heck, even the Bulls made Tom Thomas's buyout contingent on him not resigning with an EC team!

Even if KG has some say over where he goes -- and that list may not include Indiana -- I can't see the TWolves being willing to battle him 4 times a year.
Just like the Artest situation...the only way that I can see them trading KG to a Western Conference team is if McHale got an unbelievable offer from an opposing Western Conference GM. You don't trade an impact player ( much less a top 3 player in the entire league ) to a conference rival that you could one day meet in the playoffs.

But it all comes down to what any GM would be willing to offer. Like if Sterling went crazy and told the Clippers GM to get KG ( at all costs ) and offered up Brand+Maggette+Livingston+1st round draft+"whoever else McHale want" while taking back KG+TWolves Cr@p filler+any huge TWolves Huge contract....then I can see McHale seriously think twice.

The same could have been said for Walsh......if Babcock offered up Bosh for Artest.....do you think that Walsh wouldn't have blinked and completely ignored his "I will not trade Artest to an Eastern Conference team" plan?

It all comes down to what is being offered. But considering that most GMs won't give up the entire farm to get KG....such a "pick anyone that you want on the roster" approach would not happen.

GO!!!!!
03-01-2006, 07:05 PM
Richardson, Diogula, Murphey and a Pick would be my bet

Or Marion, Jones and a pick

not many teams can offer Minny anything good

Brand 1on1 for KG would be possable, heck Brand MVP !!!

Anthem
03-01-2006, 08:27 PM
Richardson, Diogula, Murphey and a Pick would be my bet

Or Marion, Jones and a pick

not many teams can offer Minny anything good

Brand 1on1 for KG would be possable, heck Brand MVP !!!
Those would be terrible deals for Minny.

Marion, Jones, and a pick? Go ahead and give Pheonix the championship!
Troy Murphy, Jason Richardson, and Ike Diogu? Man, GS would be an immediate championship condender!

If I'm Minny, I'd much rather get a package starting w/ JO.

D-BONE
03-01-2006, 09:43 PM
Whether JO is better than Brand is definitely debatable. JO needs to rebound better and use his teammates better. I think the trade value of both players would be similar.

JO's been out for most/much of the past 2 seasons. It's almost speculation now trying to figure out what kind of player he's going to be. The new makeup of the team might make him better, or it might not. We have to wait and see.

RM, definitely second your doubt to the Brand>JO thing. I'll go even further though. Based on last 2-3 years JO's not on the same level as Brand. At this juncture, I'd say a EB for KG straight up is a risky proposition for the Clips.

PacerMan
03-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Although a JONeal+Tinsley offer is a decent starting and ending offer...I think that most teams can offer something similiar...meaning the best player on the roster as well as another starting quality player. What will tip the scales in favor of any GM wanting KG is the willingness to include either a 1st round Draft pick or one of the team's top rookies.....in our case...Granger.

NOTE - I didn't say that we should include Granger....I'm saying that I think that including him is what would make McHale think twice about any Pacers offer.

I'd hope so. That's three POTENTIAL all stars. No way in H I make that trade if I'm the pacers.
JO/AJ/the pick, I would be ok with.

Harrison/Foster
KG
Granger
Tinsley/Saras
Jackson/Freddie

Drool............

larry
03-02-2006, 01:30 AM
hell no to kg
jo>kg!!
yeah i said it!
my pops always says kg is the best player in the world. based on what? how many times has kg passed the 1st round? hmm, once. and he had sam cassell. sam makes every team good. say he doesn't. i argue w/ everyone about kg and i know he's over rated. don't read me his stats. i don't care! here's an idea keep the whole team as 4 awhile. its not an accident detroit's the best the starting 5 have been together forever. ecf twice before sheed came and finals twice after.

larry
03-02-2006, 01:36 AM
jo is our guy. lets get some team chemistry! that will yeild better results than a team that looks good on paper. healthy, w/ experiance playing together, i'd say we are the best in the nba hands down. it may take a little while 2 show. dont rock the boat baby!

larry
03-02-2006, 01:47 AM
jo was at an mvp level. he will be back. if he gets another big injury i'll change my tune. and i love brand he gets slept on. a big man loves sam i am on his team ask that 1 guy from the rockets. i remember when we wanted webber. the grass is hardly ever greener.

rexnom
03-02-2006, 03:11 AM
Wow...you guys are kidding yourselves if you think Brand or JO are better than KG. KG is a better defender, rebounder, passer, and shooter than both. He's had a decent team once and he got to the WCF (the rest of the time he's had less talent than JO had last year). He rarely gets injured (unlike JO and Brand). He plays with his head while still being the natural vocal leader (guys respect him). He is much more like Malone than the other guys too in that he does the little things so well: set picks, box out, hustle for offensive rebounds, the Scot Pollard/Jeff Foster/Danny Granger things that we year after year hope and pray JO learns. And in the end, is there any doubt he will have a longer career than both JO and Brand? KG has a whole other skill set that transcends athleticism, again, like Malone, or like Duncan. This of course, does not trash Brand or JO. KG is just better.

owl
03-02-2006, 07:05 AM
KG for JO and Tinsley/Johnson and a 1st and I would be hard pressed not
to pull the trigger. KG is truly a unique talent and I believe a better fit
for what the Pacers are currently running offense wise. If the Wolves
want cap space we can send them Croshere for another player. The
Pacers have the best set of player combinations to pull that trade off.
However I really want to see what this team can do with a healthy JO
this season. That will determine if this subject is even broached.


owl

larry
03-02-2006, 11:42 PM
yeah i go 2 hard on kg i just dont want a trade of any kind. we are playing 2 hard! u gotta love us being so outgunned and pulling off wins like last night.

D-BONE
03-03-2006, 06:57 AM
Rexnom, my assertion about Brand v. KG is solely based on the last 2 years. Obviously, they are comparable talents in terms of the position they play. If you take the entirety of their careers, KG gets the edge. However, since Brand is about 3 years younger and, to my knowledge, doesn't have the rep of tiffs with team administration, if I'm the Clips, I don't trade him. As far as JO, again, if we take the entiretly of his Pacer tenure, he might inch a little closer to KG and Brand. Obviously not close the last 2 years. However, even in a longer span I don't see him on their level.

Gamble
03-03-2006, 11:55 AM
I would do this trade on the basis of leadership. No one
can argue that every championship team has a mental leader who
does not get shaken by loses or close games. Detriot has
Billups, Miama has Wade, the Spurs have Duncan. Everyteam
contending has that guy and we don't. KG mentally is that guy
and if there is a chance to do a reasonable trade its a no brainer.

rexnom
03-03-2006, 12:01 PM
Rexnom, my assertion about Brand v. KG is solely based on the last 2 years. Obviously, they are comparable talents in terms of the position they play. If you take the entirety of their careers, KG gets the edge. However, since Brand is about 3 years younger and, to my knowledge, doesn't have the rep of tiffs with team administration, if I'm the Clips, I don't trade him. As far as JO, again, if we take the entiretly of his Pacer tenure, he might inch a little closer to KG and Brand. Obviously not close the last 2 years. However, even in a longer span I don't see him on their level.

That I can see...value to a team as opposed to individual value. Obviously if guys are used to playing with one guy, trading him would be detrimental to the team, even if the other guy is a better player. Let's take our 61-win season for example, would you have traded J.O. that season for KG, even though that was his MVP season? JO just fit perfectly with that team. He might still fit great. This team might still work out great and then a KG trade would be unnecessary. But I'm just tired of settling every year, I want a championship and if getting KG opens that up then you gotta do it, even if the price is JO.

Gamble
03-03-2006, 12:29 PM
For me the trade boils down to do you get better, stay the same or
get worse. I have no worries that we could get worse with KG.

D-BONE
03-03-2006, 01:53 PM
That I can see...value to a team as opposed to individual value. Obviously if guys are used to playing with one guy, trading him would be detrimental to the team, even if the other guy is a better player. Let's take our 61-win season for example, would you have traded J.O. that season for KG, even though that was his MVP season? JO just fit perfectly with that team. He might still fit great. This team might still work out great and then a KG trade would be unnecessary. But I'm just tired of settling every year, I want a championship and if getting KG opens that up then you gotta do it, even if the price is JO.

I wouldn't say anything definitive until seeing what JO does with this group in the playoffs. However, my initial reaction would be getting KG would be to our benefit.