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View Full Version : I have less respect for the Pistons than I did.



McKeyFan
02-27-2006, 12:09 AM
I've told my Piston friends since the beginning of the year that I don't like the Pistons but I respect them.

After seeing yet another Rip Hamilton cheap shot elbow leading to ejection, and after watching mean-spirited Rasheed Wallace draw serious blood on Ilgauskas and make some comment about needing to pop a skull or something like that . . .

well . . . I may still respect the Pistons--some of them anyway--but I respect them a lot less.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:11 AM
I'm sure they're all crushed after hearing that.

McKeyFan
02-27-2006, 12:14 AM
I'm sure they're all crushed after hearing that.

I doubt it. You only care about losing a level of respect if you have some class.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:16 AM
I doubt it. You only care about losing a level of respect if you have some class.

I don't think there are many players in the NBA that would care, classy or not.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:17 AM
Well, you've got to admit this much. The majority of the team is an accurate representation of a majority of their fans.

Jermaniac
02-27-2006, 12:18 AM
Rasheed is soft, I bet you he wont hit Shaq like that. Dude is soft cake.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:18 AM
Well, you've got to admit this much. The majority of the team is an accurate representation of a majority of their fans.


wheeeeee, lets go down this road again.....

McKeyFan
02-27-2006, 12:19 AM
class = concern for being respectful.

Your post makes no sense.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:20 AM
wheeeeee, lets go down this road again.....

There's not really much of a road to go down. It's kinda hard to debate when the evidence is as plain as day.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:20 AM
class = concern for being respectful.]

Your post makes no sense.


You seem to have an inability to note the differnce between a dirty play and a dirty player. That's the issue.

He made a crappy play. No mistake about that. However, he's been in the NBA 11 years, and he's never done this before.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:21 AM
Man, I'm so glad Ron Artest is gone. It feels good having a team again that (for the majority) is classy.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:22 AM
You seem to have an inability to note the differnce between a dirty play and a dirty player. That's the issue.

He made a crappy play. No mistake about that. However, he's been in the NBA 11 years, and he's never done this before.

Only dirty players make dirty plays. Some are just more consistent.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:23 AM
Man, I'm so glad Ron Artest is gone. It feels good having a team again that (for the majority) is classy.


David...Harrison.....Stephen...Jackason......

But yeah, the Pacers are choirboys, Shade. Have fun living in that glass house. :laugh:

I mean, you're going to judge the team off of one or two guys, then that means the Pacers are certainly fair game...

And if whining to officials counts as a "lack of class," then JO gets thrown into that categoy, also.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:26 AM
David...Harrison.....Stephen...Jackason......

But yeah, the Pacers are choirboys, Shade. Have fun living in that glass house. :laugh:

I mean, you're going to judge the team off of one or two guys, then that means the Pacers are certainly fair game...

And if whining to officials counts as a "lack of class," then JO gets thrown into that categoy, also.

11 > 2

That would make it the majority, would it not?

And once again, you crawl into "can't refute it so gotta start pointing fingers" mode. Can you ever own up to anything?

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:28 AM
11 > 2

That would make it the majority, would it not?

And once again, you crawl into "can't refute it so gotta start pointing fingers" mode. Can you ever own up to anything?


If ELEVEN Pistons have proven themselves classless, then the same can be said for every Pacer not named Danny Granger and Freddie Jones.

That makes 11, too....

Oh, and I didn't start talking about the Pacers until you started to dance on your tippy-toes about How "classy" your team was, as opposed to the Pistons. Please spare me the innocent routine.

And no, you can't refute someone's opinion of "class." People interpet it different ways.

You could make a case for any player in the NBA being "classless." How the hell is anybody supposed to refute that?

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:30 AM
If ELEVEN Pistons have proven themselves classless, then the same can be said for every Pacer not named Danny Granger and Freddie Jones.

That makes 11, too....

Oh, and I didn't start talking about the Pacers until you started to dance on your tippy-toes about How "classy" your team was, as opposed to the Pistons. Please spare me the innocent routine.

So, are you at least admitting that the Pistons have a couple of classless players?

And you're ALWAYS talking about the Pacers. It's your only defense when someone criticises anyone involved with the Pistons. And compared to the Pistons, nearly every other team is classy. Flawless? Hell no. But I don't think there's anyone on our roster who calls other teams' fans f@ggots and confronts referees in parking lots after a game.

Lord Helmet
02-27-2006, 12:31 AM
David...Harrison.....Stephen...Jackason......



But yeah, the Pacers are choirboys, Shade. Have fun living in that glass house.



I mean, you're going to judge the team off of one or two guys, then that means the Pacers are certainly fair game...



And if whining to officials counts as a "lack of class," then JO gets thrown into that categoy, also.
I wouldn't yet say he doesn't have class, what he did was wrong but in the post-game interview he apologized to Indiana and the team and he sounded very regretful.

He isn't a punk or anything, he just can't control his emotions sometimes and with some of the BS calls he gets, it's got to be hard sometimes.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:32 AM
So, are you at least admitting that the Pistons have a couple of classless players?

And you're ALWAYS talking about the Pacers. It's your only defense when someone criticises anyone involved with the Pistons.

I'm admitting that people have different definitions of "class," and the Pistons could surely fall under some of them.

All I'm saying is don't be a hypocrite about it.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:32 AM
I wouldn't yet say he doesn't have class, what he did was wrong but in the post-game interview he apologized to Indiana and the team and he sounded very regretful.

He isn't a punk or anything, he just can't control his emotions sometimes and with some of the BS calls he gets, it's got to be hard sometimes.

Disagree entirely. He's a witch and should be burned at the stake...... ;)

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:34 AM
I'm admitting that people have different definitions of "class," and the Pistons could surely fall under some of them.

All I'm saying is don't be a hypocrite about it.

People have different interpretations of lots of things. Doesn't make them right.

Mr. Pink
02-27-2006, 12:34 AM
I'll be the first...


:lurk:

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:37 AM
People have different interpretations of lots of things. Doesn't make them right.


Doesn't always make them wrong, either.

I've seen and heard of Sheed doing so many great things for other people, that it's very hard for me to critisize him as a human being. You can go ahead, but aside from not controling his emotions enough, he's done two good things for every bad act he's committed. He just doesnt get publicity for that.

I try to separate my critisism of someone as a player and as a person.

Julious Erving and Ron Artest are great examples. I've never once considered Ron a bad person, while at the same time Julius Erving has been a complete jerk off the court.

From just watching them on TV, people probably think Ron is evil and Erving is a saint.

Lord Helmet
02-27-2006, 12:38 AM
Disagree entirely. He's a witch and should be burned at the stake...... ;)
Harrison was superhuman tonight, actually.

:cool:

Slick Pinkham
02-27-2006, 12:43 AM
I can't imagine that there exists a single fan of the Portland Trailblazers who didn't pump his/her fist and say "that jerk is gone" when he left.

Certainly he's played great as a Piston and has rehabbed a bit from being the most T'd-up player in history to merely being one of the most likely to do something stupid at any time to get T'd up by a ref.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:43 AM
Doesn't always make them wrong, either.

I've seen and heard of Sheed doing so many great things for other people, that it's very hard for me to critisize him as a human being. You can go ahead, but aside from not controling his emotions enough, he's done two good things for every bad act he's committed. He just doesnt get publicity for that.

I try to separate my critisism of someone as a player and as a person.

Julious Erving and Ron Artest are great examples. I've never once considered Ron a bad person, while at the same time Julius Erving has been a complete jerk off the court.

From just watching them on TV, people probably think Ron is evil and Erving is a saint.

Everybody does good and bad things. But the things that Sheed says and some of the things he's done...decent human beings don't say and do those things.

In Ron's case, I doubt he has the mental capacity to know any better.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:44 AM
I can't imagine that there exists a single fan of the Portland Trailblazers who didn't pump his/her fist and say "that jerk is gone" when he left.

Certainly he's played great as a Piston and has rehabbed a bit from being the most T'd-up player in history to merely being one of the most likely to do something stupid at any time to get T'd up by a ref.

To be fair, if Sheed did here what he did in Portland, I'd want him gone too.

I'm still happy to have him here.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:45 AM
To be fair, if Sheed did here what he did in Portland, I'd want him gone too.

I'm still happy to have him here.

A guy's past doesn't just vanish when he switches cities. Unfortunately, nobody told Ron that, either.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:47 AM
A guy's past doesn't just vanish when he switches cities. Unfortunately, nobody told Ron that, either.

That's for posterity to decide.

As for having him on my team, I gave him a clean slate when he got here. FOr the most part, he's been on his best (possible) behavior.

won't pretend like he doesn't have lapses now and then, but looking at the whoel body of work in detroit, it's pretty good for him.

FreshPrince22
02-27-2006, 12:47 AM
I can't imagine that there exists a single fan of the Portland Trailblazers who didn't pump his/her fist and say "that jerk is gone" when he left.


Is that why half of the crowd still yells "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEED" when he touches the ball in his visits to Portland? Obviously the other half boos him, but still. He's a guy that you love to have on your team, but hate him when he's on another team. It's all right, no need to start 5 threads a day about him.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:48 AM
That's for posterity to decide.

As for having him on my team, I gave him a clean slate when he got here. FOr the most part, he's been on his best (possible) behavior.

The fact that stuff like this is his "best behavior" tells me all I need to know about him.

Shade
02-27-2006, 12:49 AM
Is that why half of the crowd still yells "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEED" when he touches the ball in his visits to Portland? Obviously the other half boo, but still. He's a guy that you love to have on your team, but hate him when he's on another team.

Maybe it's just me, but that entire post reads contradictory. You completely negated your main point with that last sentence.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:49 AM
The fact that stuff like this is his "best behavior" tells me all I need to know about him.

He's not a saint and he never will be. I'll never say that he wasn't. You need someone with Sheed's attitude to keep your team from becoming charmin-soft.

No team wins championships without at least one guy that's hated. Ask the Spurs.

Slick Pinkham
02-27-2006, 12:51 AM
I've seen and heard of Sheed doing so many great things for other people...

:violin:

This guy told the fans of Portland to go F themselves many times. There were all sorts of stories about him in the jailblazer days about being a no-show at events he had promised to attend or being disruptive if he did show up.

one example:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2002/01/18/flash122401/

Losing Their Grip

Their once-ardent fans turned off by players' misdeeds and front-office ineptitude, the Trail Blazers are showing how quickly an NBA franchise can alienate its customers
By L. Jon Wertheim

Issue date: December 24-31, 2001

Cheering for the Blazers today seems almost dirty, tantamount to selling one's soul for a cheap thrill. -- Martin Fisher of Bend, Ore., in a letter to The Oregonian, Nov. 11, 2001

On the morning of Dec. 7 the Portland Trail Blazers gathered outside their arena to serve breakfast and distribute Christmas trees to families in need. It was clear that Rasheed Wallace would rather have been anywhere else. The team's best player and co-captain, Wallace spent most of the 90-minute session speaking on a cellular phone, the hands-free device dangling from his right ear, and, like most of his teammates, he checked his pager incessantly. When a Blazers employee suggested that Wallace wear a Santa Claus hat, he declined, saying cryptically, "I'm a supervisor." At one point a teenager beseeched the 6'11" Wallace for an autograph. "You ain't got a Sharpie?" Wallace responded. As the kid retreated to find Wallace's preferred writing implement, the player cursed at no one in particular and yawned uninhibitedly.

A similar lethargy had been in evidence among the Trail Blazers the previous night. With thousands of the Rose Garden's 19,980 seats unoccupied, Wallace & Co. slogged through a 95-89 loss to the Charlotte Hornets. Save first-year coach Maurice Cheeks and a few bench players, the Blazers seemed as indifferent to the game's outcome as the fans, who reserved their loudest cheers for the T-shirt giveaways during timeouts. After the defeat David Fahey, a Portland electrician, looked at the $75 ticket stub for his last-row loge seat and shook his head. "I'm a die-hard Blazers fan," he said, "but this is embarrassing."

Bad management, bad actors and bad basketball have alienated fans in many NBA cities, but Portland offers a compelling case study. The only pro sports franchise in a small market (pop. 529,121), the Blazers have been a civic treasure for three decades, the NBA's answer to the Green Bay Packers. Blazermaniacs packed 12,666-seat Memorial Coliseum for a league-record 814 straight sellouts from 1977 to '95. Even today, those arriving at Portland International Airport are greeted by a large poster of the downtown parade held after the franchise won the 1977 title, an image that's as much a part of the local tableau as Mount Hood and Multnomah Falls. Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Mychal Thompson and dozens of players like them became year-round residents, volunteering at the Boys Club and playing Santa at the mall (not to mention donning the red-and-white hat). "You had to have been here," says Bill Schonely, the beloved Blazers announcer for 28 years who was forced out by the team two seasons ago. "The community embraced these guys, and they hugged back."

Now the relationship is strictly arm's length. Average attendance at the Rose Garden had dropped to 19,171 at week's end, a 5.5% decrease from last season. According to a source at the local NBC affiliate, which will televise 25 games this year, ratings for the Blazers are down as much as 50% from the mid-'90s. (Over the summer, after an attempt to squeeze more money out of its deal with AT&T engendered a bitter, public dispute, the team failed to renew a contract to air 25 additional games on cable.) In November, The Oregonian asked readers whether they remained Portland fans. Of the 107 respondents, 57 identified their feelings as "fed up, no longer on board, good riddance" and 27 had "big-time misgivings but still [follow] the team somewhat." Only 23 were in the "Go Blazers forever" camp. "I watch sports to have fun," wrote Gary Lewis of Tigard, Ore. "I don't watch the Blazers anymore."

Only 18 months ago Portland came within minutes of winning the Western Conference championship before bowing to the Los Angeles Lakers. Although the current Trail Blazers are flush with talent and depth, through Sunday's games they were 11-11 despite their $84 million payroll, which is second only to the New York Knicks'. These Blazers don't induce mere apathy among many Portlanders; they inspire antipathy. "I don't even talk about the Blazers on my show, because I know listeners will tune out," says Colin Cowherd, a Portland sports-radio host on KFXX. "Check that. Sometimes we have a contest to see who was most disgusted and left the game earliest."

The contrast between the old and the new was thrown into sharp relief last March, when the team retired Drexler's number 22 jersey. At halftime of the game against the Vancouver Grizzlies, Drexler, flanked by former teammates, spoke eloquently about his fondness for the community. That he made only perfunctory mention of team president Bob Whitsitt and owner Paul Allen was lost on no one. A standing ovation followed. Then, less than two minutes into the second half, Wallace was ejected for arguing a call. The Blazers, in first place at the time, fell to the lowly Grizzlies, then dropped 16 of their remaining 24 games, including three straight losses to the Lakers in the first round of the playoffs.

In populist Portland, which feels more like a large village than a small city, the dubious character of the players is Exhibit A in the fans' estrangement. The linchpin of the team, Wallace, attended his introductory press conference in Portland wearing a T-shirt reading, ***** WHAT YOU HEARD. In the five seasons since he has been a serial boor, twice setting the league record for technical fouls. In one game late last season he threw a towel in the face of teammate Arvydas Sabonis and had to be restrained from going after coach Mike Dunleavy. Though he vowed before this season to silence critics with his performance, all his shooting percentages are down from last year. At week's end he was leading the league in technicals with eight, on pace to accrue 30.

Wallace's primary complement, 36-year-old Scottie Pippen, has shifted to cruise control now that he's earning the fat payday ($18.1 million this season) that eluded him in Chicago; through Sunday he was averaging 9.0 points, the fewest since his rookie year. Fourth-year swingman Bonzi Wells is an emerging star, but he hasn't captured the public's imagination. Not that he minds. "We're not really going to worry about what the hell [the fans] think about us," Wells says. "They really don't matter to us. They can boo us every day, but they're still going to ask for our autographs if they see us on the street. That's why they're fans and we're NBA players."

More offensive still is the off-court conduct of a team nicknamed the Jail Blazers. The NBA's patron saint of transgressing, Isaiah Rider, was arrested on a misdemeanor charge of gambling in public the same week the team acquired him, in 1996. On top of a series of suspensions and bad acts during his three tumultuous seasons in Portland--including a citation for marijuana possession after he was caught smoking pot out of a soda can--he called the city a "racist area," adding, "Forty miles from here, they're probably still hanging people from trees." In 1998 forward Gary Trent, already on probation for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend, assaulted an acquaintance outside a Portland community center for at-risk youth because the victim mistakenly triggered the burglar alarm at Trent's home. (Trent served five days for probation violation and reached a settlement with the man.) Last season the team signed guard Rod Strickland less than two months after his second drunk driving conviction in four years.

Whitsitt, in turn, touts former guard Greg Anthony as more emblematic of the Blazers' sterling character. In 1999, however, the team forced Anthony to apologize to beat writer Rachel Bachman for allegedly making inappropriate sexual comments. (Anthony, who was traded last summer to the Chicago Bulls for a second-round pick, says, "The charges are absurd. I was told by team management that if I apologized the whole thing would go away.") "When players are getting paid as much as these guys, the fans have a right to expect them to behave themselves," says Harry Glickman, the team's founder, president from 1987 to '94 and now president emeritus. Adds Schonely, "What management doesn't realize is that Portland fans would rather root for a so-so team of good guys than a contender filled with bad apples."

That notion has been lost on Whitsitt, who has taken so many hits he calls himself "the Portland pinata." Following the 1999-2000 season he traded power forward Brian Grant, a civic-minded, throwback player, for the troubled Shawn Kemp. In July, after dealing Steve Smith, the 1998 J. Walter Kennedy Award winner for good citizenship, to the San Antonio Spurs, Whitsitt signed the Seattle SuperSonics' free-agent swingman, Ruben Patterson. Two months earlier Patterson had entered a modified plea to attempted rape for allegedly forcing his children's nanny to perform a sex act while his wife was in the hospital for surgery. Although at his sentencing Patterson asserted the act was consensual, he was forced to register in Oregon as a convicted sex offender. "When you get the facts, his situation is no different from other folks' who haven't been publicized," Whitsitt says. "He really is a good guy." (Last February, Patterson was convicted of misdemeanor assault after breaking the jaw of a man he believed had scratched his BMW.)

"The Blazers seem to have forgotten that the fans are the customers," says Thompson, a Minnesota Timberwolves broadcaster who still has a home in suburban Portland. "When you're the only game in town, it's easy to get lazy." (Told of Thompson's impressions, Whitsitt says, "I wouldn't use Mychal's comments. Every year he's trying to get a job with us, O.K.?")

In his eighth season in charge of the Trail Blazers after eight years as president of the Sonics, Whitsitt operates like a Rotisserie team owner, amassing the best players available with little regard for unity. "I wasn't a chemistry major," he says. The result is a tantalizing collection of talent that invariably combusts. With roles and substitution patterns ill-defined, the players' grousing over minutes has become as predictable in Portland as overcast skies. "We have no identity," says point guard Damon Stoudamire.

Moreover, many will never forgive the 45-year-old Whitsitt for failing to relocate to Portland from Seattle. While Whitsitt defends that choice--"Red Auerbach ran the Celtics from Washington, D.C.," he points out--detractors find it a revealing snub. "This might sound provincial, but we expect the president of the Portland team to live in Portland," says Jon Spoelstra, who ran the Blazers' marketing office from 1979 to '89 and wrote the bestseller Marketing Outrageously with Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban. "Fans are used to having an absentee owner but not absentee management."

Others say that Whitsitt is following the marching orders of Allen, the Microsoft cofounder whom Forbes estimates to be worth $28 billion. Allen's wealth has its decided advantages. He built the $262 million Rose Garden in 1995 with scant reliance on public funds and thinks little of lavishing nearly $60 million over three years on a marginal player like Kemp. He's also undaunted by the prospect of diminishing revenues. When you're willing to pay $30 million in luxury tax for a mid-level playoff team, do you really lose sleep over a few thousand empty seats or the financial consequences of fan backlash? (Allen declined to speak to SI.)

For a team often insensitive to its fans, Portland is hypersensitive to criticism. Top brass, including Whitsitt, has requested meetings with Oregonian editors, then arrived toting a stack of articles with the passages the team deems objectionable highlighted. Two seasons ago reporter Abby Haight wrote a story praising the Indiana Pacers' new arena, Conseco Fieldhouse. The following day the Blazers contacted sports editor Dennis Peck, expressing outrage that Haight had implied the Rose Garden wasn't as nice a venue. "As a courtesy, we listen," says Peck, who has also been chided by the team after positive stories about former Blazers, such as Grant, have appeared. "But [ultimately] we ignore it. We're here to do journalism."

In the final game of the playoffs last season, Blazers fan Katherine Topaz and her boyfriend's eight-year-old son brandished a TRADE WHITSITT sign. When Topaz refused to put it away, she was ejected from the Rose Garden. After her plight made national news and she became a symbol of the disenfranchised fan, Whitsitt apologized to Topaz and the team sent her a gift basket--albeit with $5.38 in postage due.

To some extent, the sea change in Portland is symptomatic of the times. During Thompson's era players were paid handsomely but bought their groceries at Fred Meyer like every Portlander and lived in subdivisions where neighbors baked them cookies after good games. Today's multimillionaires reside in gated mansions and often have a staff to do their shopping or pump their gas. (Allen makes sure the players' cars are waxed and washed during each practice.) Whitsitt raises a fair point when he says, "The 'when-it-was' era had three players [Drexler, Porter and Jerome Kersey] who were with the franchise 10 seasons or longer. That's special, but with today's free agency and salary cap and media and fan pressure, you can't find that anywhere."

Whatever the case, Portland fans who are feeling alienated may never return. "You have to work twice as hard to get them back," says Spoelstra. "Look at the Hornets. They led the league in attendance and now can't draw flies." (Crowds in Charlotte have dropped from an average of 24,042 in 1996-97 to 10,303 at week's end.)

Perhaps in a tacit admission that the team could use an image makeover, a new television ad for the Blazers features Wallace and Wells sneaking onto a court to play one-on-one after the janitor has gone home. The running joke in Portland, however, is that the way things are going, all the Blazers may soon be playing in an empty gym. As the team is fast learning, selling your soul is one thing. Finding willing buyers is quite another.

Issue date: December 24-31, 2001

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:52 AM
Maybe it's just me, but that entire post reads contradictory. You completely negated your main point with that last sentence.


He does have a point, though.

Sheed gets ovations whenever we play in Portland. Cheers heavily outweigh the boos.

If Portland really hates Sheed, they have a funny way of showing it.

There were even "I miss Sheed" and "We still love Sheed" signs in the stands the last time we played them.

Shade
02-27-2006, 01:00 AM
He's not a saint and he never will be. I'll never say that he wasn't. You need someone with Sheed's attitude to keep your team from becoming charmin-soft.

No team wins championships without at least one guy that's hated. Ask the Spurs.

Being hated for being a great performer is one thing. Being hated because you treat people like ***** is quite another.

Cussing at fans...throwing stuff at teammates...threatening referees...intentionally attacking another player... These things all go well past the idea of "attitude." And that doesn't even factor in the incessant whining which should get him a pair of techs and ejection in virtually every game. Of course, if he didn't have to create fake disrespect to get himself motivated, he wouldn't even be in the NBA right now.

Shade
02-27-2006, 01:01 AM
He does have a point, though.

Sheed gets ovations whenever we play in Portland. Cheers heavily outweigh the boos.

If Portland really hates Sheed, they have a funny way of showing it.

There were even "I miss Sheed" and "We still love Sheed" signs in the stands the last time we played them.

I really don't know how Portland fans feel about Sheed. I was just confused by the contradiction.

FreshPrince22
02-27-2006, 01:03 AM
Maybe it's just me, but that entire post reads contradictory. You completely negated your main point with that last sentence.

Sorry, I meant to say that you hate him if you haven't had him on your your team to understand what the guy is all about. I should have elaborated.

Slick Pinkham
02-27-2006, 01:04 AM
Lots of Pacer fans will give Artest a polite ovation too.

That doesn't mean they don't agree that it was imperative to get rid of their team disruptor, just like Portland fans did not regret the departure of the chief jailblazer.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 01:06 AM
Lots of Pacer fans will give Artest a polite ovation too.

I'll believe that when I see it.

In either case, I'm more than happy to have Sheed on my team. He's been an awesome teamate, a great team player, and he's conducted himself as a fine individual off the court, which I think is the most improtant. He hasn't given me reason to dislike him, other than letting his emotions go too much, and one ugly foul in over 2 years.

Sorry, but I don't care one bit what he did off the court in Portland, because he isn't repeating it here.

Everything he's been critisized for as a Piston has been on the court. I think degrading him as a human being for that is rather small and reeks of jealousy and bitterness.

grace
02-27-2006, 01:06 AM
I'll be the first...


:lurk:

:lurk: Isn't there anything better to do than this? I thought the episode of "Trading Spaces" where they put one over on Doug and Hildi was more entertaining than this. At least it was somewhat original.

By the way, I would make some crack about the Portland fans being too high on weed to know who or what they're cheering for, but that would be stereotyping them like some of us tend to do with the Pistons fans. That would be bad. Very bad.

FreshPrince22
02-27-2006, 01:09 AM
:violin:

This guy told the fans of Portland to go F themselves many times. There were all sorts of stories about him in the jailblazer days about being a no-show at events he had promised to attend or being disruptive if he did show up.

one example:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_online/news/2002/01/18/flash122401/


Issue date: December 24-31, 2001

http://www.nba.com/community/caa_february_050320.html

Rasheed Wallace Receives NBA Community Assist Award for February
NEW YORK, March 20 -- Detroit’s Rasheed Wallace was not only a key addition to the team’s lineup last season, helping the Pistons win the 2004 NBA Championship after a mid-season trade, but he has also been a welcome addition to the Detroit-metro community, developing significant ties to local schools and making a lasting impact on many in the Detroit area. In recognition of his tremendous outreach efforts, Wallace will be honored with the Community Assist Award for February, the NBA announced today. Wallace will receive his award from Pistons legend and NBA community ambassador Bob Lanier before a national television audience on March 20, when Detroit hosts the San Antonio Spurs at the Palace on ABC.

Wallace
Wallace’s charitable efforts during the month of February focused on his newest community outreach program called the “Rasheed Wallace Student Achiever Program” and his on-going “Sheed’s Squad” ticket giveaway. As part of the new initiative, Wallace adopted Kettering High School to help ninth grade students overcome academic and social challenges.

“With everything the NBA has given to me, I feel it is my responsibility to give back to the community, especially the kids,” said Wallace. “I want to give them opportunities that they may not otherwise have.”

Wallace and his mother, Jackie, made a special appearance at Kettering High School on Feb. 9 to tip off the program and issue a challenge to the 450 ninth graders to concentrate on four disciplines: grades, citizenship, attendance and a book challenge. Students who improve their grades during the third marking period will be rewarded before the school year ends with a special banquet, which Wallace will host, and they will be his special guests at a Pistons home game sitting in the “Sheed’s Squad” section.

The “Sheed’s Squad” program is designed to reward a variety of youth groups throughout the state of Michigan. Wallace purchases 25 tickets to every home game, which are then distributed to charitable organizations focused on improving the lives of youngsters.

Wallace’s commitment to community outreach programs did not begin upon his arrival in Detroit. In 1997, Wallace established the Rasheed A. Wallace Foundation, which promotes and sponsors education, recreation, social and athletic programs including youth organizations, recreation centers and summer athletic teams. The foundation also sponsors tournaments, provides gifts to inner city schools, and promotes social and cultural programs that seek to improve the quality of people’s lives.

Wallace joins Marcus Camby of the Denver Nuggets (January), Shaquille O'Neal of the Miami Heat (December) and Steven Hunter of the Phoenix Suns (November) as recent winners of the NBA’s Community Assist Award. Other players nominated for the NBA Community Assist Award for the month of February include Marcus Fizer of the Milwaukee Bucks, Brian Grant of the Los Angeles Lakers, Kyle Korver of the Philadelphia 76ers, Rashard Lewis of the Seattle SuperSonics, Donyell Marshall of the Toronto Raptors, and Chris Webber of the Philadelphia 76ers.

As the recipient of the NBA Community Assist Award, Wallace will receive the David Robinson Plaque with the inscription, “Following the standard set by NBA Legend David Robinson who improved the community piece by piece.” During the 2002-03 season, NBA Commissioner David Stern presented former San Antonio Spurs center David Robinson with an honorary plaque and announced that all future winners of the NBA Community Assist Award would receive the David Robinson Plaque. In addition to the plaque, a $5,000 gift will be given to the Rasheed A. Wallace Foundation in his honor.

The NBA Community Assist Award is given out monthly by the league to recognize players for their charitable efforts. The award honors the NBA player who reflects the passion that the league and its players have for their communities.

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Also check this out: http://www.rawallacefoundation.com/

Kstat
02-27-2006, 01:10 AM
Like I said, for every story about something Sheed's done wrong, there are two more about things he's done right.

I think it's amazing what Sheed's done for Kettering highschol, which is one of the most troubled highschools in the country.

I'd also add that Sheed still has programs still going in Portland and Philly.

Anthem
02-27-2006, 01:18 AM
That's for posterity to decide.
And what a big posterity it is! Almost Walker-esque!

Joke, joke. I have nothing further to add to this thread, so I'll show myself out.

sweabs
02-27-2006, 01:35 AM
Based on this thread, (along with countless others), it's almost as if we've come to the realization that the Pistons are one of the most dominant teams we've seen in a long time...and once again, a better team than our beloved Pacers.

So, we've decided if we can't beat them on the court, then we sure as hell can beat them off the court as "better human beings". Yay!

If I was a Pistons fan, I would take this as a compliment.

Pacersin6
02-27-2006, 02:01 AM
Like I said, for every story about something Sheed's done wrong, there are two more about things he's done right.

I think it's amazing what Sheed's done for Kettering highschol, which is one of the most troubled highschools in the country.

I'd also add that Sheed still has programs still going in Portland and Philly.


This is hard to agree with a Piston fan, Kstat is right. Look, i don't like the way he whines to the officials but he is a good player. Also, from what I have heard he does do a lot for his community. I mean, this is getting rediculous. Look, i love my team but there is no reason to bring this all up. I don't like this but how hard is it to just let this all go? We are not gonna win the championship this year. We are playing pretty solid, but come om. Please.....can we please stop all this...???

:puke:

I feel dirty

Eindar
02-27-2006, 02:42 AM
My only complaint with him, since joining the Pistons, is that he gets WAY, WAY more leash than 99% of players arguing with refs. Sheed hasn't changed his on-court behavior much at all, the refs are now just letting him get away with it, for whatever reason.

FreshPrince22
02-27-2006, 03:22 AM
My only complaint with him, since joining the Pistons, is that he gets WAY, WAY more leash than 99% of players arguing with refs. Sheed hasn't changed his on-court behavior much at all, the refs are now just letting him get away with it, for whatever reason.

It goes both ways. There are times when he gets away with more (in particular the little high-step out of bounds move he likes to do), but there are plenty of times when they give him a tech early because of his reputation. Against the Pacers for instance, the ref saw Danny Granger flop around as Rasheed was taking the ball out of the hoop, and the ref gave Sheed a tech for it. He just assumed that Sheed must of done something because he was next to him. And that's the problem. Those situations are when he really starts complaining because he thinks he's getting screwed (and probably is).

There are also a couple refs around the league that have a particularly quick whishtle against him, and swallow thier whistle on the offensive end. That goes back to his Portland days though, but it's all a vicious circle because he then complains about those legit bad-calls like all NBA players do.

#31
02-27-2006, 06:56 AM
:lurk:

DisplacedKnick
02-27-2006, 08:05 AM
Based on this thread, (along with countless others), it's almost as if we've come to the realization that the Pistons are one of the most dominant teams we've seen in a long time...and once again, a better team than our beloved Pacers.

So, we've decided if we can't beat them on the court, then we sure as hell can beat them off the court as "better human beings". Yay!

If I was a Pistons fan, I would take this as a compliment.

Yeah - I don't usually make comments like this but when I look at the front page of this board with the Rasheed and Pistons threads running through it I gotta think that any Pistons fans are enjoying the fact that Pacer fans are so obsessed with them.

The Pistons may not be in the Pacer players' heads, but judging from PD, they sure are in the fans.

Black Sox
02-27-2006, 09:38 AM
There are way to many Pistons posts on here. The fact is that nobody likes the pistons except the people in Detroit.

Hicks
02-27-2006, 09:55 AM
The Pistons being the big enemy of the season is what gets it started. The Piston fans that downplay, deflect, and deny what's being said, even when it's true (and before I get jumped, it's not all true), is what turns it into a giant thread.

PacerMan
02-27-2006, 10:06 AM
You seem to have an inability to note the differnce between a dirty play and a dirty player. That's the issue.

He made a crappy play. No mistake about that. However, he's been in the NBA 11 years, and he's never done this before.


You seem to have an inability to note the irrelevance of whether he's ever done it before and the FACT that he did it now. Why in the hell would it matter whether he's ever done it before?
And it wasn't a "crappy PLAY", he whacked him with his elbow, very intentionally. Ille should have come up and laid his ugly *** OUT.

McKeyFan
02-27-2006, 11:40 AM
The Piston fans that downplay, deflect, and deny what's being said, even when it's true

I think Hicks is on to why this thread goes on and on. Originally, I didn't plan it to be solely about Rasheed--but also about Rip's cheap shot.

Also, if you read the original post, I don't call anybody "dirty" or say anything inciendiary. In fact, I say "I may still respect the Pistons."

That's a pretty gracious comment, it seems to me, from a partisan Pacer fan. To Kstat's credit, in another thread he does at least admit what Sheed did was very bad. I believe I'd own up to it if a Pacer did similar stuff. (I don't like Harrison's mouth nor do I like Jackson's attitude, but I'm not sure I can think of malicious incidents from Pacers like the two recent ones from Rip and Sheed.

Fool
02-27-2006, 12:07 PM
The Pistons being the big enemy of the season is what gets it started. The Piston fans that downplay, deflect, and deny what's being said, even when it's true (and before I get jumped, it's not all true), is what turns it into a giant thread.

Way to contribute. This thread is long because Kstat is committed to replying to anything anyone says that he doesn't agree with (and seems to have the time to actually accomplish this) and Shade seemed just as committed to the same for a while. The only reason its about the Pistons is because thats the issue that so clearly divides the two main parties (Shade and Kstat). If both cared so much about Zeke and the Knicks, it would be about them. (Btw, its 2 pages. Is that considered long?)

Also, why don't you call your targets instead of using the vague "Piston fans". Am I included in this group? Do you mean all Piston fans? Do you mean only some? Are you being purposefully vague so as not to draw a reply? Do you do that so that you're not actually insulting anyone while still leaving the door open to insulting many?

Hicks
02-27-2006, 12:11 PM
How is "Piston fans that downplay, deflect, and deny what's being said" vague to you?

Fool
02-27-2006, 12:23 PM
Are you serious? Because if you don't see how you not naming the persons you are insulting while actually naming a larger group of posters is being vague, then I can reply on that subject.

Mostly though, my reply was driven by the fact that I don't like passive aggressive shots that could include me (even when I'm pretty sure I'm not in the target range).

Gamble
02-27-2006, 12:28 PM
Dirty play with W's on the end of scoreboard always gets overlooked
by the home crowd. Unfortunately for Detriot there is more the
just the homecrowd watching.

Detriot will have its time but i can't believe it will be long either in
the "market or on the court".

Hicks
02-27-2006, 12:47 PM
Are you serious? Because if you don't see how you not naming the persons you are insulting while actually naming a larger group of posters is being vague, then I can reply on that subject.

Mostly though, my reply was driven by the fact that I don't like passive aggressive shots that could include me (even when I'm pretty sure I'm not in the target range).

Sorry, but I'm not going to make a grocery list of names to appease. Obvoiusly Kstat is typically the ringleader, but that's not the point. Either you are one of those who does the 3 things I mentioned, or not. It was not meant as in insult whether anyone took it that way or not.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 12:50 PM
I don't agree with that, either.

I never once denied, downplayed or deflected that it was a dirty play. I was only talking about the people that decided to take advantage and pile on.

And please don't call me the "ringleader," like I have some control of what any other Piston fan on this board says.

Fool
02-27-2006, 01:34 PM
Sorry, but I'm not going to make a grocery list of names to appease. Obvoiusly Kstat is typically the ringleader, but that's not the point. Either you are one of those who does the 3 things I mentioned, or not. It was not meant as in insult whether anyone took it that way or not.

I'm not asking for a grocery list (and apparently you really don't see how your comment was vague). Determining who does the 3 things you mentioned is almost purely subjective which is exactly how your comment is vague. Who's to say, other than you, who you think does the three things named? All that's left is a list of every Piston fan who uses the site (and perhaps any and all Piston fans who you've ever come in contact with).

And of course you were being insulting. Your statement wasn't a compliment nor was it a neutral claim about the loosely defined group.

You were making a jab at everyone you decided does the 3 things that you named while trying to look like you weren't insulting anyone in particular.

Knucklehead Warrior
02-27-2006, 01:48 PM
He said
The Piston fans that downplay, deflect, and deny... WHAT is the problem here?
If the Foo sh*ts wear it. If not, why are you offended?
This is a PACERS board. It would be downright ludicrous for Pacer fans to not criticize the pistons here. Just as it would be likewise on a pistons board to not take shots at our Pacers.

The problem as I see it, is when piston fans come on here and b*tch and moan. The same would be true if any of us started this thread on a pistons board.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel like being politically correct to ANY pisstons fans. You want a list?

Fool
02-27-2006, 01:58 PM
No, you're perfectly direct with your insults. That I don't have a problem with.

Hicks
02-27-2006, 03:40 PM
I'd like to know what my jab is.

Fool
02-27-2006, 04:03 PM
Basically characterizing the unspecified Piston fans as spin doctors rather than fans who honestly hold an opposing opinion.

Hicks
02-27-2006, 04:05 PM
Basically characterizing the unspecified Piston fans as spin doctors rather than fans who honestly hold an opposing opinion.

What I read was spin. Now if you want to debate the semantics of that, then we're going to have to agree to disagree and then move on.

Fool
02-27-2006, 04:21 PM
No, I don't want to debate your subjective opinion of how honest Kstat is in his defence of all things Pistons (or this individual topic in particular) on this board.

I just wanted to make it known that while I could care less if I get called a worthless Pisston fan here, I don't like watching others join in the fun while trying to maintain their future claims to innocence of such actions. In other words, slinging mud while trying to keep a "classy" image.

DisplacedKnick
02-27-2006, 05:51 PM
There are way to many Pistons posts on here. The fact is that nobody likes the pistons except the people in Detroit.

Really? I like 'em fine. They play very hard, tough disciplined basketball where every player on the team knows his role. They're well coached and the best team in the league at making the other guy play their game.

Don't know what's not to like. I'm not gonna turn into a fan or anything but I don't have any particular hatred for them. Now and then a member of that team will do something I don't care for - like Rasheed yesterday, or Ben's occasional forays into Drama Queendom - but it isn't a big deal. Certainly less of a big deal than Reggie's flopping, trash talking and perpetual whining used to be.

travmil
02-27-2006, 05:55 PM
Certainly less of a big deal than Reggie's flopping, trash talking and perpetual whining used to be.

Could your distaste for that perhaps be caused by the fact that your team was so frequently affected by Reggie's actions? How is that any different than us hating the Pistons for how their actions have affected us?

Pacesetter
02-27-2006, 05:59 PM
Can someone please explain to me the obsession with the Pistons? They are just another basketball team, why all the concern? I've been watching post after agonizing post about Rasheed, or Pistons this and that. The Pistons are a good team, but geez, some of this sounds like insecurity!

We've got a good team. Why the need to put down other teams? JMO.

Kstat
02-27-2006, 06:06 PM
geez, some of this sounds like insecurity!


You said it, not me....... :whistle:

DisplacedKnick
02-27-2006, 06:58 PM
Could your distaste for that perhaps be caused by the fact that your team was so frequently affected by Reggie's actions? How is that any different than us hating the Pistons for how their actions have affected us?

Not really other than one or two instances. I never cared for Vlade doing it either but figured Reggie'd be the example more people would understand.

grace
02-28-2006, 02:34 AM
Well first I thought about posting :suicide:, but decided it would be better to have a :bananadea , dead because he choked on his :drama:.

There's always this: :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors

I was going to tell you all to stop it, but the :stopit: smilie doesn't seem to be working. :(

Anthem
02-28-2006, 02:43 AM
If we stop bumping the thread, will it die? Or will it just birth a new one? Like the pheonix, rising from the ashes?

Or would that be too close to comic books, which would get the thread moved to Entertainment?

Maybe we need a "trash talk about the Pistons" subforum. It would get a lot more action than the trade board.

RWB
02-28-2006, 08:37 AM
Can someone please explain to me the obsession with the Pistons? JMO.

The latest for me was Harrison being suspended a game after jawing with a Piston's fan. Believe me, it's not just hatred for the team.

Bat Boy
02-28-2006, 08:00 PM
Like the pheonix, rising from the ashes?
Pheonix? Your spelling has become a bit too frenetic.

Pacesetter
03-01-2006, 12:24 AM
The latest for me was Harrison being suspended a game after jawing with a Piston's fan. Believe me, it's not just hatred for the team.

I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him. - Booker T. Washington

P.S. Just think, those fans have to stay there, our Pacers get to come home! lol. ;)

heywoode
03-01-2006, 02:54 PM
I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him. - Booker T. Washington


I wish I had that kind of self control....Maybe I'm just mislabeling my emotions? Maybe what I feel is "extreme annoyance" and not hatred....Not saying that I hate the Pistons; more speaking in general...

I like the Pistons just fine, with the exception of the Wallace's...I know they are fine with that, but so am I...