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View Full Version : Where's Croshere?



Los Angeles
02-26-2006, 09:31 PM
I haven't seen him on the bench lately - is he travelling with the team, or no?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Moses
02-26-2006, 09:31 PM
I haven't seen him on the bench lately - is he travelling with the team, or no?

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Concussions can be pretty serious. Of course he has been out for a good while now..I wonder when he will come back. We could use him at PF while JO is out so we can actually get some good scoring from the position besides Danger.

Jermaniac
02-26-2006, 09:35 PM
I seen him at all the home games, havent seen him on the road, maybe he just asked if he could stay home and not have to travel. Thats my guess.

Evan_The_Dude
02-26-2006, 09:39 PM
Not good to fly with a concussion?

Anthem
02-26-2006, 10:18 PM
I'm starting to get pretty curious.... he's been out for an awful long time.

Kaufman, you around? What's the normal length of time to heal from a concussion?

SoupIsGood
02-26-2006, 10:19 PM
I'm not worried yet.... well, anymore worried than I already am for a guy with two straight concussions

317Kim
02-26-2006, 10:27 PM
I think he might as well take his time. I've heard before that concussions are nothing to mess with and since he's had 2, he should take it easy.

Jermaniac
02-26-2006, 10:33 PM
Didnt David miss a whole bunch of time just because of one concusion last year.

Anthem
02-26-2006, 11:44 PM
Didnt David miss a whole bunch of time just because of one concusion last year.
He missed some, but then had an injury immediately upon return.

Jon Theodore
02-27-2006, 09:39 AM
He could probably play right now. NO sense in rushing him back, it just doesn't make sense. We are playing fine and developing guys like Granger and DH for the playoffs.

I assume he might not even be back this month, but who honestly cares. He's a solid player, but we simply do not need him. Let him rest.

Anthem
02-27-2006, 10:34 AM
I assume he might not even be back this month, but who honestly cares. He's a solid player, but we simply do not need him. Let him rest.
If we don't need him now, when Jermaine's out for 3 months, then we don't need him ever.

RWB
02-27-2006, 10:45 AM
Has he even practiced with the team? If not, either he has had another injury worth resting for or they're being really cautious for some reason. Clot?

Will Galen
02-27-2006, 11:11 AM
I haven't seen him on the bench lately - is he travelling with the team, or no?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I saw him on the bench against Atlanta. (in street clothes)

8.9_seconds
02-28-2006, 01:07 AM
If we don't need him now, when Jermaine's out for 3 months, then we don't need him ever.


Hey let's start a 25,000 reasons we don't need Austin Croshere that big, dumb, injury-prone, one time playoff performance, wussy of a man thread and have everybody join in.......and then a couple weeks later we can start one about his greatness when he plays well.


I'm sorry Anthem, I don't mean this to be scathing, but this is exactly what happened with JB, but it happened in reverse, the less we saw of him, the greater he got, but it's opposite for Austin. Croshere has been loyal to the team. What would we have done without him the early part of the season? What would we have done if we would have used the Allan Houston Rule on him and kept JB? I'm not saying this with a Homer hat on, I'm saying it because it's true. :kiss:

:peace:

rabid
02-28-2006, 01:58 AM
Game 4, 2004 Eastern Conference Finals.

Anthem
02-28-2006, 03:10 AM
I'm sorry Anthem, I don't mean this to be scathing, but this is exactly what happened with JB, but it happened in reverse, the less we saw of him, the greater he got, but it's opposite for Austin.
Man, I hate this. I've let bball say that forever because he's bball, but now that others are picking it up I've got to quell the fires. JB's legend didn't grow while he rode the pine. That's a fantasy. JB's legend only grew when he played. It wasn't some legendary shootout w/ Bird that made me think Bender could play in the league, it was the stretch w/ Thomas where he played 3 positions in six games, and looked great doing it.

When Bender was playing and playing well, nobody knocked on him. It was when he COULDN'T play that the reverse happened: Bball started being able to say "He was never any good anyway" and nobody had any data to disprove.

And this ain't a thread about Jon Freaking Bender. Dude's not even a Pacer anymore. This thread's about Croshere. And my question is a fair one: If Croshere's ready to play but isn't coming back now because we don't need him, then when in the world would we need him? We're without our franchise player, who playes the same position as our $9mil/year backup. If we don't have a use for that backup when the starter goes out for 2 months, then when DO we have a use for him? Even if we trade JO, we all know we'd be getting a starting PF back. I like Austin, but I don't see where he's supposed to get minutes.

EDIT: p.s. And there's not a nice way to say this, but do your homework before getting on my case. We didn't use the Allan Houston rule on JB. We used it on Reggie. And for the record, I'd have preferred (and did prefer at the time) using the Houston rule on Croshere: Harrison would have gotten PT earlier in the season, we'd have saved a little money this season, we'd save a ton of money next season, and Reggie wouldn't go out by being waived. Which of those things would bother you?

D-BONE
02-28-2006, 07:25 AM
I'd have to agree with the contention that Croshere does not have a spot in the rotation even if healthy. Based on the way this unit is playing who does he supplant? Foster, Granger, Harrison, Pollard, Peja? Then eventually throw O'Neal back in the mix. What frontlinte player sits so he finds consistent PT? He's been a loyal, professional guy throughout his career, but he's not capable of giving us better than what we're already getting up front. You've already got Granger in line to see some reduction on JO's return (and theoretically Croshere's, too). And that right there is a scary thought.

Eindar
02-28-2006, 07:41 AM
Maybe he tottered off on his own during the Atlanta game, and since nobody pays attention to him anyways, we lost him :(

If anyone has seen a 6'9" guy wearing a $3,000 suit on the Atlanta subway, possibly drooling slightly, please contact Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

CableKC
02-28-2006, 12:43 PM
It would be nice to have him in the lineup.....but the longer he is out...the more recovered, rested and healthy he will be come playoff time.

If he needs to rest....rest him. Although it would be nice to have him now.....we need him later...more then now.

indytoad
02-28-2006, 01:47 PM
I don't really trust Pollard or Foster's ability to stay healthy long-term, so I wouldn't want to abandon Cro just yet.

IndyToad
Messed up again

Chest Rockwell
02-28-2006, 02:10 PM
I also don't trust Pollard or Foster's ability to make a shot outside of 8 feet.

MagicRat
02-28-2006, 02:12 PM
I also don't trust Pollard or Foster's ability to make a shot outside of 8 feet.

If you trust them out to 8 feet, you have more trust in them than I do.......:-p

Since86
02-28-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm starting to get pretty curious.... he's been out for an awful long time.

Kaufman, you around? What's the normal length of time to heal from a concussion?

Not Kaufman, nor have his expertise, but I do have a book that comes in handy. ;)

For multiple grade 3 concussions it says 1month or longer, based on decision of evaluating physician.

I doubt he's had a grade 3, because for it to be a grade 3 he would of had to been completely knocked out for a couple of minutes. The only pacer player concussin that I've ever seen like that would of been Hulks last year when he was stumbling down the court and he had no idea.

Multiple grade 2 says 2wks......

This is out of the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons First Aid, CPR, and AED Fourth Edition.

Anthem
02-28-2006, 04:17 PM
Multiple grade 2 says 2wks......

This is out of the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons First Aid, CPR, and AED Fourth Edition.
Excellent, thanks.

He hasn't played since Jan 31. So it's been 4 weeks now.

What gives?

Slick Pinkham
02-28-2006, 04:39 PM
MagicRat needs to take one of those "Where's Waldo" panels and photoshop in Austin.

Then we can have a "where's Austin" contest

8.9_seconds
02-28-2006, 05:47 PM
MagicRat needs to take one of those "Where's Waldo" panels and photoshop in Austin.

Then we can have a "where's Austin" contest


It's odd you said that, I was gonna do that exact same thing, but I think Magic Rat is more qualified to do so.

SoupIsGood
02-28-2006, 05:56 PM
We need him in case Pollard's back flares up. Otherwise, he can sit the bench. He won't complain.

8.9_seconds
02-28-2006, 06:13 PM
EDIT: p.s. And there's not a nice way to say this, but do your homework before getting on my case. We didn't use the Allan Houston rule on JB. We used it on Reggie. And for the record, I'd have preferred (and did prefer at the time) using the Houston rule on Croshere: Harrison would have gotten PT earlier in the season, we'd have saved a little money this season, we'd save a ton of money next season, and Reggie wouldn't go out by being waived. Which of those things would bother you?

Umm...I never said that we used the Allan Houston Rule on JB, I'm saying it was discussed, there was even a poll on it, and most people thought Cro should be waived :rolleyes:http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440&highlight=Croshere+Bender You would rather have David? I like David, he seems like a good guy, he's a good player, but the kid is rough. By that I mean rough around the edges, sometimes I wonder if he has a basketball related Learning disability. I like him, but we only have PF if we get rid of Austin, is that smart?

On the Whole JB issue, I guess that's not true, even though every summer Jonathan Bender was dubbed the greatest athlete in franchise history, even though he was sitting on a trainers table (not training with the team), but we were all wrong. That's were the Legend of Jon Bender starts and flourishes, when he's not around.


Man, I hate this. I've let bball say that forever because he's bball

This I am trying to be very nice about and just giving my opinion, I mean it with no mal whatsoever; but I really hope you meant it was ok for Bball to say this because that's his personality. Thats what I got from it the second time I read it.

But

The first time I read it I was really pissed off though. I thought it meant because I wasn't part of the original PD or veteran pack. Sometimes, as a new member, even though I've been posting here almost a year, I feel like there's a whole other respect you can't earn from other members because they have been here longer. I know that many of you have been together since the start and that you have developed relationships with eachother, I understand that. Sometimes, I feel like if I were another member my opinion wouldn't be as picked apart as ferociously as it is. I'm not speaking about you, Anthem, I'm not saying that it happens to me alot in particular, it doesn't; but I notice it. PD is a fine community, I just want to make that clear.

Anthem, I just typed that to explain my lashing back at the beginning of the post because i stopped typing and came back to it, read it, and wanted to explain it without editing.

Los Angeles
02-28-2006, 06:15 PM
MagicRat needs to take one of those "Where's Waldo" panels and photoshop in Austin.

Then we can have a "where's Austin" contest
Well, I'm not MR, but here you go:

http://www.twospace.com/pacers/wheresaustin.jpg

Raskolnikov
02-28-2006, 06:18 PM
I found him!

Slick Pinkham
02-28-2006, 06:18 PM
:bowdown:

:applaud:

MagicRat
02-28-2006, 09:19 PM
Well, I'm not Los Angeles, but here's mine.......
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/wheresaustin.jpg

Anthem
02-28-2006, 10:49 PM
The first time I read it I was really pissed off though. I thought it meant because I wasn't part of the original PD or veteran pack. Sometimes, as a new member, even though I've been posting here almost a year, I feel like there's a whole other respect you can't earn from other members because they have been here longer. I know that many of you have been together since the start and that you have developed relationships with eachother, I understand that. Sometimes, I feel like if I were another member my opinion wouldn't be as picked apart as ferociously as it is. I'm not speaking about you, Anthem, I'm not saying that it happens to me alot in particular, it doesn't; but I notice it. PD is a fine community, I just want to make that clear.

Anthem, I just typed that to explain my lashing back at the beginning of the post because i stopped typing and came back to it, read it, and wanted to explain it without editing.
This is really the part I wanted to address. Compared to this, the other stuff really doesn't matter to me. I completely understand why you thought that. But that wasn't what I was trying to say. Let me explain.

Jonathan Bender is Bball's White Whale. It wouldn't have mattered if Jon had come back and played played 3 straight years without missing a game, all the while giving us 25ppg/10rpg a night. Bball would have still hated him.

Bball continually talked about those fools who believed in the H-O-R-S-E sessions and the practice workouts, and refused to believe that anyone could be basing their opinions on flashes of brilliance that we'd seen in game. Right up to the end, he claimed Bender had made no progress in his time in the NBA. That was just wrong. I stand by what I said in my first post: Bender's legend hasn't grown while he was on the bench, it has shrunk. When he played, people could see that he had something to offer the team. When he sat, he was just another stiff. You'd read the threads and get the feeling that Bender walked into the NBA and thought that a good vertical, a decent outside shot, and a 7' figure were all he needed to deserve a life of luxury. On the other hand, all of the coaching staff, the front office, and the other players said that he was a guy with exceptional drive whose body just couldn't handle it.

I don't even get into Bender discussions with Bball, because it has no value. But that doesn't mean I agree with him.

Does that make sense? I don't care who's been here how long. I try to value everyone based on their input. And frankly, I'm kind of honored that you cared that much about my opinion. Despite how I often come off, I don't really think I have all that much to offer in terms of pure basketball knowlege. Bball, Jay, Peck, and UB are the kings of the realm in that department. It's just that we all have these illogical fixations on certain subjects, and my fixation seems to be picking at everyone else's.

Jermaniac
02-28-2006, 10:52 PM
Well, I'm not Los Angeles, but here's mine.......
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/wheresaustin.jpg OHH MAN STEPHEN IS POUTING

8.9_seconds
03-01-2006, 12:42 AM
This is really the part I wanted to address. Compared to this, the other stuff really doesn't matter to me. I completely understand why you thought that. But that wasn't what I was trying to say. Let me explain.

Jonathan Bender is Bball's White Whale. It wouldn't have mattered if Jon had come back and played played 3 straight years without missing a game, all the while giving us 25ppg/10rpg a night. Bball would have still hated him.

Bball continually talked about those fools who believed in the H-O-R-S-E sessions and the practice workouts, and refused to believe that anyone could be basing their opinions on flashes of brilliance that we'd seen in game. Right up to the end, he claimed Bender had made no progress in his time in the NBA. That was just wrong. I stand by what I said in my first post: Bender's legend hasn't grown while he was on the bench, it has shrunk. When he played, people could see that he had something to offer the team. When he sat, he was just another stiff. You'd read the threads and get the feeling that Bender walked into the NBA and thought that a good vertical, a decent outside shot, and a 7' figure were all he needed to deserve a life of luxury. On the other hand, all of the coaching staff, the front office, and the other players said that he was a guy with exceptional drive whose body just couldn't handle it.

I don't even get into Bender discussions with Bball, because it has no value. But that doesn't mean I agree with him.

Does that make sense? I don't care who's been here how long. I try to value everyone based on their input. And frankly, I'm kind of honored that you cared that much about my opinion. Despite how I often come off, I don't really think I have all that much to offer in terms of pure basketball knowlege. Bball, Jay, Peck, and UB are the kings of the realm in that department. It's just that we all have these illogical fixations on certain subjects, and my fixation seems to be picking at everyone else's.


I understand, thank you.

Los Angeles
03-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Well, I'm not Los Angeles, but here's mine.......
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/wheresaustin.jpg
Hahaha.

I FOUND HIM!

8.9_seconds
03-02-2006, 01:06 AM
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/The Hulkster.jpg

8.9_seconds
03-02-2006, 01:07 AM
Sorry, I know that Pic is huge, I tried forever to make it smaller,but there's something wrong with my files blah blah blah.....haha yeah another weird *** pic, I'm bored, what can I say?

sweabs
03-02-2006, 02:15 AM
Cute avatar, MagicRat.

I can tell which kid is your favourite.

Raskolnikov
03-02-2006, 02:39 AM
Awesome, 8.9!

MagicRat
03-02-2006, 09:53 AM
Cute avatar, MagicRat.

I can tell which kid is your favourite.

Hey, he picked his own jersey!

If only I could've gotten my 4 year-old daughter in the picture with her Stephen Jackson jersey I could've had the triumvirate of PD's most controversial (Post-Artest) Pacers.........:cool:

penn13
03-02-2006, 11:33 AM
That's great 8.9!!

Los Angeles
03-04-2006, 03:32 PM
Good to see Croshere on the bench last night. :)

Hicks
03-04-2006, 04:03 PM
It must be more serious than we were led to believe. WB4 reported on him last night, and it sounded like in a week he'll start PRACTICING LIGHTLY, and only if that goes well will they re-evaluate. If it takes until 1/3 into March to begin light contact practicing from a concussion that happened 6-7 weeks earlier, that sounds pretty serious to me.

Los Angeles
03-04-2006, 04:13 PM
It must be more serious than we were led to believe. WB4 reported on him last night, and it sounded like in a week he'll start PRACTICING LIGHTLY, and only if that goes well will they re-evaluate. If it takes until 1/3 into March to begin light contact practicing from a concussion that happened 6-7 weeks earlier, that sounds pretty serious to me.
OUCH - was that report during the game - I had the audio turned down on the feed and Mark Boyle and Slick Leonard coming in through the internet.

Wait - now I remember - I got the green machine feed anyway.

Is there other coverage on WB4 other than during the games?

Bball
03-04-2006, 04:27 PM
It must be more serious than we were led to believe. WB4 reported on him last night, and it sounded like in a week he'll start PRACTICING LIGHTLY, and only if that goes well will they re-evaluate. If it takes until 1/3 into March to begin light contact practicing from a concussion that happened 6-7 weeks earlier, that sounds pretty serious to me.

One of these days I'll understand why the team and/or local press plays this stuff so close to the vest and refuses to give us a better picture of the situation.

I'm not asking for X-rays, MRI's, medical charts, etc... just a little more info on the prognosis/time frame of return and nature of the injury. Actually, maybe what I am asking for is a little more accuracy. Or maybe else something besides only the rosiest of projections. In this case we (assuming we can even believe the press) know the problem is a concussion. What could it have hurt to have told us up front it is serious enough that they won't rush his return and it could be several weeks before he returns to practice?

Same for almost every injury...to any player... always. The info only dribbles out and the full story (if ever known) is mentioned days/weeks later as a drop-in piece in a column about something else. It's like you'll be reading the report on a game and in the game notes it will say "O Neal's groin injury is healing nicely but a hairline fracture in his leg is not healing as fast as hoped". (Note: AFAIK, that is a fictional account used as a hypothetical example and O Neal has no fractures).

Am I being too cynical in thinking this type thng is done because TPTB figure this knowledge could hurt advance ticket sales? Surely, it isn't simply poor reporting or poor medical treatment/diagnosis. Everytime?

-Bball

Los Angeles
03-04-2006, 04:54 PM
Bball -

As a big fan, I like to be kept in the know. I'm just curious beyond belief and feel that my loyalty deserves some kind of reward in terms of information.

Having suffered a number of injuries myself I can say that you never know when you'll be better until you're actually better.

If this were any sort of big game situation, I would not want my opponents to know anything about the team they are about to face. Who's injured, who's starting, the game plan - ALL OF THEM should be closely guarded secrets.

As fans we feel we should be told everything. But you know what, there's a lot of poker in team management and coaching, and telling the fans what cards you are holding is the same as telling your the guy across the table.

Los Angeles
03-04-2006, 05:20 PM
I dont buy that.

There are other teams in the NBA, most of them, release that kind of information. They may not say how severe it is, but they wouldnt feed us some "fluffy BS" about how all is well and how there are no serious injuries.
Fluffy BS? Can you be specific about incidents this season? I just want to point out that in order to prove that someone is lying you have to prove that they knew what was going on in the first place.

I don't think our guys do, or at least they didn't last year. I think the last two years have been terrible for our team. Reference my "FIRE THE MEDICAL STAFF" rant from last year: there was a huge information gap last year.

But this year? This year, I don't see it. In fact, I see nothing but clear messages about our injuries except the ones where it's "wait and see."

We finally got the straight word on Bender - we were told staight up about Tins and O'Neal being out for a long while. I'm not talking about the first time, when they both tried to be heros and come back too early (meaning it was the players lying, not the staff).

Croshere is "wait and see." That's just what concussions are like.

The only "fluffy BS" coming from our guys this year is coming from the players themselves. The communication with the fans - from the management has been appropriate. Other years past, I'd agree with you. This year, no.

Bball
03-04-2006, 05:53 PM
Guys, the season started with an Indy Star article about how healthy we were heading into training camp. Bender was rearin' to go.... Foster was coming off hip surgery and was right on schedule. Of course that wasn't reality. Bender still had problems and Foster was not only still recovering from the hip surgery but had an achilles problem that kept him out for weeks. That is not 'healthy' heading into the preseason.

We've seen it with Tinsley this season almost from the start.

I don't think anything has changed with management/reporting in regard to injuries. Same as it ever was.

In fact, the seeming seriousness of the report on O Neal pretty much has me thinking the odds are he'll be lucky to be back this season. With a Pacer medical reports/prognosis, it's always worse than they say. Maybe it is gamesmanship at some level rather than a nefarious plan to not hurt advance ticket sales.... or not... I'm unconvinced at either idea.

-Bball

Anthem
03-04-2006, 11:47 PM
It must be more serious than we were led to believe. WB4 reported on him last night, and it sounded like in a week he'll start PRACTICING LIGHTLY, and only if that goes well will they re-evaluate. If it takes until 1/3 into March to begin light contact practicing from a concussion that happened 6-7 weeks earlier, that sounds pretty serious to me.
That's crazy.

Seriously, that blows my mind. I was thinking he should be back any time, but it seemed like the articles are suggesting that Jermaine will be back before Croshere. I mean, if he hasn't even started light, non-contact practicing, then he could legitimately be out the rest of the year.

grace
03-05-2006, 12:56 AM
It must be more serious than we were led to believe. WB4 reported on him last night, and it sounded like in a week he'll start PRACTICING LIGHTLY, and only if that goes well will they re-evaluate. If it takes until 1/3 into March to begin light contact practicing from a concussion that happened 6-7 weeks earlier, that sounds pretty serious to me.

Repeated concussions are always serious, especially when you get them 3 weeks apart.

I think what the TV guys said was he is already practicing lightly and got fitted for a mouth piece by a Boston dentist (like the ones here can't do it :rolleyes: ).

It doesn't surprise me at all that he's not back yet.

Since86
03-06-2006, 04:00 PM
Medical information just can't be released fellas......

The player would have to sign off on what's released, all of it or just bits and pieces.

Yes, it would be interesting to know, but it's not my place to know how severe their injuries are, just like it's not my place to know about how injured any average-joe is.

Hell, my parents can't even get my medical information, or what I even tell the doctor, unless I say so, and I still live with them and deemed a dependent.

Los Angeles
03-06-2006, 10:59 PM
EDIT: Nevermind.

Hicks
03-06-2006, 11:14 PM
bad example. You live in a nation with many more freedoms AND protections than we have.

He lives in Muncie, Indiana...

Los Angeles
03-06-2006, 11:16 PM
He lives in Muncie, Indiana...
Boy am I dumb.

for some reason I was thinking of rcarey.