PDA

View Full Version : Granger and Saras Get Heated



brichard
02-23-2006, 11:49 PM
I've come to the conclusion that the best thing for the Pacers to do is to trade Saras.

I watched him pointing out what he felt was a miscue by Granger and Granger stormed right back. It isn't that I mind that Saras has balls. You want your PG to be a person who keeps people in line. But if the guy is yelling back, he doesn't respect you, and that particular play told me a lot.

I do think Saras is a good player, but he obviously has not been able to be the type of player he wants to be in this system. I can't imagine the Pacer brass viewed the "Best Player in Europe" as a 2nd string PG. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think everybody will be happy, including Saras if he is moved.

Unclebuck
02-23-2006, 11:52 PM
I don't read much into that little "confrontation" No big deal

Fireball Kid
02-23-2006, 11:56 PM
Respect? This is his first year. Jammal and Anthony should be the ones getting the respect, not Saras. Your reading too much into this.

Moses
02-23-2006, 11:56 PM
They are down by 12 and Sarunas was having an off night and just turned the ball over..Do you want him to smile and skip back down the court? Yeah right. I'd rather see that kind of intensity and desire to win. We all know how intense Sarunas is because of his strong desire to win.

What I did like tonight though was how Sarunas played when we were down by 20. He kept playing like it was a real game and he actually brought us back pretty close. He hit a 2 followed by a 3 and got the guys invovled.

Jon Theodore
02-23-2006, 11:58 PM
Im glad saras did what he did. BEN WALLACE WAS PRESSING HIM....so whoever was under the hoop, im assuming it was granger...needs to be ready for that pass. WHen Ben wallace is pressing the point guard, the bigs needs to get under the basket and be ready for a pass.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:01 AM
Respect? This is his first year. Jammal and Anthony should be the ones getting the respect, not Saras. Your reading too much into this.

It is his first year, but the first year of "The Best Player in Europe" and the first year for a guy out of college like Granger is a bit different... don't you think? Saras is 29 years old and has been playing pro ball for awhile. I would expect his impact to be greater.

This is one small example, but he has been here for half a season and just doesn't seemed to have meshed well with the team. Does he have talent? Absolutely. Is he going to be able to flourish under Rick Carlisle? I'm just not sure he will.

I've been wrong before, but during my tenure as a Pacer fan, I've rarely seen these types of things change.

But hey... what do I know. :cool:

JBones19
02-24-2006, 12:02 AM
I've come to the conclusion that the best thing for the Pacers to do is to trade Saras.

I watched him pointing out what he felt was a miscue by Granger and Granger stormed right back. It isn't that I mind that Saras has balls. You want your PG to be a person who keeps people in line. But if the guy is yelling back, he doesn't respect you, and that particular play told me a lot.

I do think Saras is a good player, but he obviously has not been able to be the type of player he wants to be in this system. I can't imagine the Pacer brass viewed the "Best Player in Europe" as a 2nd string PG. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think everybody will be happy, including Saras if he is moved.

I completely disagree with you. Saras is not just a "balls" player, he has a high basketball IQ and he still is TECHNICALLY a rookie. Of course the players are going to be slightly irratated with they way things were going tonight. Just like when Reggie Wayne shoved Peyton on the sideline last year.

-J

grace
02-24-2006, 12:04 AM
Well I'm convinced that if Danny is miffed at Saras it's because someone is spreading the rumor that Saras would rather be in Cleveland.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:04 AM
They are down by 12 and Sarunas was having an off night and just turned the ball over..Do you want him to smile and skip back down the court? Yeah right. I'd rather see that kind of intensity and desire to win. We all know how intense Sarunas is because of his strong desire to win.

I've got no problem with the emotion. But he wasn't yelling at himself for the pass he made, he was yelling at the person (Granger) who missed the pass. If you are going to start calling guys out on the court and they listen to you, that is a good sign of leadership.

If you yell at somebody and they yell back, that is discord. Now, sometimes even that is healthy. I just can't think of one time where Saras has done that and it appears he has been "heard." I'm not sure how well liked he is among his team mates.

Jermaniac
02-24-2006, 12:05 AM
I don't read much into that little "confrontation" No big dealOhh of course not, what if Jamaal yelled at someone like that? What if Jamaal got mad at a bad play? How much would you read into it then?


The guy threw a bullet pass no where near Danny, Jerry Rice couldnt have caught that. He had no right to yell at the guy, like Peck and Jay say He should shut the hell up. This isnt Lithuania.

SoupIsGood
02-24-2006, 12:06 AM
I agree that Saras is not the great fit for us that I expected. I still like him though, if only because he's healthy and durable, and still IMO a great backup PG.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:06 AM
I completely disagree with you. Saras is not just a "balls" player, he has a high basketball IQ and he still is TECHNICALLY a rookie. Of course the players are going to be slightly irratated with they way things were going tonight. Just like when Reggie Wayne shoved Peyton on the sideline last year.

-J

For the record, I acknowledge that Saras has a high basketball IQ. I was just trying to clarify that I don't mind his emotion or fire. But if that emotion/fire is not being well received... that isn't a good thing is it?

indytoad
02-24-2006, 12:06 AM
Well I'm convinced that if Danny is miffed at Saras it's because someone is spreading the rumor that Saras would rather be in Cleveland.

He was probably upset Saras didn't invite him to come with.

IndyToad
Three-tenths of a penny

Hicks
02-24-2006, 12:06 AM
I don't read much into that little "confrontation" No big deal

I wish more people saw what you did. This was nothing but a miscommuncation, with both thinking they did the right thing. Big whoop.

tadscout
02-24-2006, 12:06 AM
I've come to the conclusion that the best thing for the Pacers to do is to trade Saras.

I watched him pointing out what he felt was a miscue by Granger and Granger stormed right back. It isn't that I mind that Saras has balls. You want your PG to be a person who keeps people in line. But if the guy is yelling back, he doesn't respect you, and that particular play told me a lot.

I do think Saras is a good player, but he obviously has not been able to be the type of player he wants to be in this system. I can't imagine the Pacer brass viewed the "Best Player in Europe" as a 2nd string PG. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think everybody will be happy, including Saras if he is moved.

Sarunas was yelling at him b/c he didn't go after the ball (that's leadership, trying to get his teammates to play better/ harder...)... I was able to read Grangers lips, he replied- I couldn't get to it b/c my defender was in the way... the supposed heated argument was over. Period.... and then they started playing well together again... I think the tightest chemistry between 2 players on our team is between Sarunas and Granger...<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You're just reading way to much into what was a very frustrating game for both the players and us fans...<o:p></o:p>

Moses
02-24-2006, 12:07 AM
Sarunas was yelling at him b/c he didn't go after the ball (that's leadership, trying to get his teammates to play better/ harder...)... I was able to read Grangers lips, he replied- I couldn't get to it b/c my defender was in the way... the supposed heated argument was over. Period.... and then they started playing well together again... I think the tightest chemistry between 2 players on our team is between Sarunas and Granger...<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You're just reading way to much into what was a very frustrating game for both the players and us fans...<o:p></o:p>
Err..Well I don't think Runi is wrong for what he did..But it looked to me like Granger said, "It's not my fault."

Hoop
02-24-2006, 12:08 AM
Players are always going to have little "confrontations" from time to time. I don't think they take it as seriously as fans do, it's just part of the game. I'm sure they have already forgot about it and moved on. Us fans are the ones that always want to over analyze every little thing.

Fireball Kid
02-24-2006, 12:08 AM
Sarunas was yelling at him b/c he didn't go after the ball (that's leadership, trying to get his teammates to play better/ harder...)... I was able to read Grangers lips, he replied- I couldn't get to it b/c my defender was in the way... the supposed heated argument was over. Period.... and then they started playing well together again... I think the tightest chemistry between 2 players on our team is between Sarunas and Granger...<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You're just reading way to much into what was a very frustrating game for both the players and us fans...<o:p></o:p>

THANK YOU!

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 12:10 AM
The trade deadline is in the past now, so there isn't much sense to discuss that before the off-season.

And even if there was no deadline, you wouldn't want to give someone like Sarunas to some team when games finally start to carry more pressure in them. As you said - he very probably would do better in another team. And he almost always does better when games have more pressure in them. There wouldn't be any sense in such an althruistic experiment for the Pacers at this time of year.

JBones19
02-24-2006, 12:10 AM
For the record, I acknowledge that Saras has a high basketball IQ. I was just trying to clarify that I don't mind his emotion or fire. But if that emotion/fire is not being well received... that isn't a good thing is it?


I see what you're saying, I just think if we were up by 20 or something and that exchange took place I'd read more into it. On a side note, did you guys see Hulk look at the guy in the crowd after his 2nd offensive foul and say "F#ck YOU!" Why on earth would you mess with the Hulk, especially as a Det. fan??

-J

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:11 AM
Well let me ask a few questions for Saras' fans.

1. Do you think Saras has been accepted by his team mates the way you had hoped/envisioned?

2. Do you like the way Rick uses Runi?

3. Do you think things will get better for him with the Pacers?

Jermaniac
02-24-2006, 12:12 AM
Sarunas was yelling at him b/c he didn't go after the ball (that's leadership, trying to get his teammates to play better/ harder...)... I was able to read Grangers lips, he replied- I couldn't get to it b/c my defender was in the way... the supposed heated argument was over. Period.... and then they started playing well together again... I think the tightest chemistry between 2 players on our team is between Sarunas and Granger...<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You're just reading way to much into what was a very frustrating game for both the players and us fans...<o:p></o:p> Why are you quick to defend him but so quick to **** on Stephen?

You ever blame him for anything or is he perfect?

Foster yells at Fred Jones, Foster is becoming a headcase. Sarunas yells at every damn body on the team for no reason, its leadership. This isnt Europe and he is a rookie, I wonder if Chris Paul yells at PJ Brown.

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 12:17 AM
Well let me ask a few questions for Saras' fans.

1. Do you think Saras has been accepted by his team mates the way you had hoped/envisioned?

2. Do you like the way Rick uses Runi?

3. Do you think things will get better for him with the Pacers?

There's no any clear info to answer any of these questions definitely enough.... Only speculations.

Personally, I like Carlisle's style. Sarunas never had two similar coaches in his career. God knows what will happen.

Still, it's harder for me to judge than for most of you since I don't have any possibility to watch Pacers' games that often.

Fireball Kid
02-24-2006, 12:18 AM
Well let me ask a few questions for Saras' fans.

1. Do you think Saras has been accepted by his team mates the way you had hoped/envisioned?

2. Do you like the way Rick uses Runi?

3. Do you think things will get better for him with the Pacers?

1. You cant expect Saras to get respect from his teammates when this is his first year. He is a rookie after all.

2. I dont believe Rick has enough trust in Saras to run this team freely.

3. Its not even that bad to begin with. So things will get better.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:22 AM
1. You cant expect Saras to get respect from his teammates when this is his first year. He is a rookie after all.

Why not.

Did Magic Johnson get respect his first year?
Larry Bird?
Kobe Bryant?

or to get closer to home...

Jamaal Tinsley?

It is harder to gain respect as a Rookie, but it isn't unheard of. But, I do think you need to earn it.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:26 AM
There's no any clear info to answer any of these questions definitely enough.... Only speculations.

Personally, I like Carlisle's style. Sarunas never had two similar coaches in his career. God knows what will happen.

Still, it's harder for me to judge than for most of you since I don't have any possibility to watch Pacers' games that often.

Fair enough, but based on the early projections from his fans, I have to think that they are largely disappointed. And guys, this isn't a knee-jerk reaction for me to come up with this opinion over one play of a game.

You run different horses for different courses, and I just think his talent is being wasted here.

McKeyFan
02-24-2006, 12:26 AM
What I saw was Saras trying to pass it down low to Harrison and Granger tried to catch it at the high post and deflected it out of bounds.

I'm not sure who was at fault. Granger did look pretty mad. One possible theory is this was a pretty critical time in the game. Both Runi and Danny have a fire to win. Both knew it was a critical play. Both got heated.

I don't think there's enough here to concoct too many theories of dissension. In fact, you could theorize just the opposite--that Runi and Danny get along so well that they are able to have a spat on the court and communicate. Two players who don't get along wouldn't even try.

CableKC
02-24-2006, 12:27 AM
Sarunas is able to make the "flashy" pinpoint bullet pass. He can get the ball to you if you are open. The problem is that 1/2 the time....the receiving player isn't even ready to catch the ball.

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 12:29 AM
Why not.

Did Magic Johnson get respect his first year?
Larry Bird?
Kobe Bryant?

or to get closer to home...

Jamaal Tinsley?

It is harder to gain respect as a Rookie, but it isn't unheard of. But, I do think you need to earn it.

How come it's an established fact he is disrespected by his teammates? Even if so, are you sure it's all teammates, not part/several of them? You could argue that some teammates never respected some of the players you've mentioned.

The final and most important question, however, is whether opponents respect them. You need time for that.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:30 AM
I don't think there's enough here to concoct too many theories of dissension. In fact, you could theorize just the opposite--that Runi and Danny get along so well that they are able to have a spat on the court and communicate. Two players who don't get along wouldn't even try.

I'm not saying your theory is wrong, but I find it interesting that so many people are subscribing to it. When Jax and JO fought on the court, it was news worthy. There was trouble in paradise. Similar comments are made about the way JO does or doesn't cheer at a game, or the Ron Artest lack of engagement with teammates.

Runi and Granger have a little go at it and it is business as usual. This isn't the first time I've seen Saras get the cold sholder from his teammates, this one was just a bit more vocal.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:32 AM
How come it's an established fact he is disrespected by his teammates?


It isn't an established fact, only a theory. A theory that several people seem to agree with. Even those diminishing the argument have stated a Rookie can't get respect.

tadscout
02-24-2006, 12:36 AM
Why are you quick to defend him but so quick to **** on Stephen?

You ever blame him for anything or is he perfect?

Foster yells at Fred Jones, Foster is becoming a headcase. Sarunas yells at every damn body on the team for no reason, its leadership. This isnt Europe and he is a rookie, I wonder if Chris Paul yells at PJ Brown.

I haven't said anything about Jackson on here for a couple weeks...

I never said anything of the sort about a Foster- Jones scenario... you must have mistaken me for another poster...

Sarunas is 29 and has allot of experience, including being the team leader on three championship teams (and yes I do get frustrated with him at times...)
Paul is 20 and played one year of college...

Yes they are both rookies but there is a vast difference in experience between the two...

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 12:43 AM
You run different horses for different courses, and I just think his talent is being wasted here.

It might be true. Still, I would like him to try. He hasn't so many top-quality years left. Maybe 3 to 5 after this season. Maybe a bit more, as decrease in speed shouldn't be too hard hit for his type of game. Still, there isn't enough of time for him to move around searching for a suitable contender.

I would be sadder if he was having beautiful statistics in Jazz or Celtics.

grace
02-24-2006, 12:47 AM
How come it's an established fact he is disrespected by his teammates?

Well, it could be because some people want it to be that way so that's the way the see it.

brichard
02-24-2006, 12:51 AM
It might be true. Still, I would like him to try. He hasn't so many top-quality years left. Maybe 3 to 5 after this season. Maybe a bit more, as decrease in speed shouldn't be too hard hit for his game. Still, there isn't enough of time for him to move around searching for a suitable contender.

I would be sadder if he was having beautiful statistics in Jazz or Celtics.

Well, I do want the best for him (except for times he would play the Pacers!) as well as what is the best for us. He has shown he can compete against NBA quality players in the Olympics and I'm sure he schooled some folks in the Euro League who are now doing well in the NBA.

I firmly believe that Saras was brought here to start by Walsh/Bird. Bird has never been a huge JT fan. Nobody has said this, it is just my opinion. As competetive as he is, I'm sure Saras isn't happy being #2 at his position. Perhaps time will cure all things, but I just don't see that his play has improved all that much from where he was in the beginning. Is it him? Is it the Carlisle system? Is it the NBA? After the end of the year we'll probably have more information, it is just how I see things now.

Tim
02-24-2006, 12:54 AM
I wish more people saw what you did. This was nothing but a miscommuncation, with both thinking they did the right thing. Big whoop.

Wow! Cabbage barks at Granger for his bad pass and its not a big thing?

Granger was right to look at Cabbage hard about that bullet pass and to stand up for himself, no miscommunication there Hicks, that was a baseball pass.

Jermaniac
02-24-2006, 01:12 AM
Some people on here defend Saras no matter what happens and they look at him as some golden boy when he is nothing but a role player. Like I said before if Tins yelled at someone like that it would be called pouting,*****ing,moaning,he hates Rick Carlisle and trade his *** for a 2nd round pick.

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 01:19 AM
Some posters here bash everyone but Jermaine:)

Hicks
02-24-2006, 01:27 AM
Well, it could be because some people want it to be that way so that's the way the see it.

Irony! [/girly voice]

Wait, I was thinking of Kegboy. :D

sweabs
02-24-2006, 01:39 AM
I'm with Hicks and UB on this one.

It was nothing. That kind of thing happens all the time when you're playing basketball. It's emotion; you're caught up in the heat of the game. After the game, you go out and have some beers.

Yawn.

grace
02-24-2006, 01:45 AM
Wait, I was thinking of Kegboy. :D

Yes, he's the only one who thinks a certain player is less than perfect.

abington
02-24-2006, 03:57 AM
Sarunas,the most overated gunner in the short history of Pacers Digest is a
3rd string point guard on a mediocre team.

Maybe he could be traded to the Cavs for Mike Brown's glasses case or something else of equal value.

Lithfan
02-24-2006, 04:06 AM
It is his first year, but the first year of "The Best Player in Europe" and the first year for a guy out of college like Granger is a bit different... don't you think? Saras is 29 years old and has been playing pro ball for awhile. I would expect his impact to be greater.

This is one small example, but he has been here for half a season and just doesn't seemed to have meshed well with the team. Does he have talent? Absolutely. Is he going to be able to flourish under Rick Carlisle? I'm just not sure he will.

I've been wrong before, but during my tenure as a Pacer fan, I've rarely seen these types of things change.

But hey... what do I know. :cool:

Common, Rick doesn't let him to impact.

fifo
02-24-2006, 06:18 AM
Is it him? Is it the Carlisle system?

The way I see it is currently the Pacers still seem more of a good group of players than a team:
- The trade period made amost everyone cranky, as almost every player was mentioned to be a trade candidate. Hell, even the all-star franchise player.
- The injuries disrupted the line-up. Hardly any player feels secure, and knows his exact role.

As for Sarunas, I have some short points to add:
1. He has a tendency to get heated and sometimes yell at other players. It happened to him before, and was not always appreciated. However, his teammates usually acknowledged him as a leader.

2. He was brought to the team not necessarily to start, but to provide experience, clutch and leadership. The stuff that is needed in order to push a contender twards the title.

3. He is the kind of player that without the coach trust, will never play to his abilities. Currently it is obvious Carslile does not trust him, and does not encourage his leadership skills. This may change in the next year.

I agree he would have been better in Clevland. But like Swiss said, the trade period is over, and he can still contribute this year. Even in his reduced role.

317Kim
02-24-2006, 06:26 AM
I thought what happened was out of frustaration. :shrug:

Let's see how they do tonight.

Rytas_Jega
02-24-2006, 07:13 AM
This isnt Lithuania.

Šaras never won a title on Lihuanian land.

Titles with Lithuanian National Teams

Gold medal at the 1994 European Junior Championship (Tel Aviv, Israel)

Gold medal at the 1996 European Under-22 Championship (Istanbul, Turkey)

Gold medal at the 2003 European Chapionship (Stockholm, Sweden)

Euroleague titles

Win at the 2003 Euroleague final with Barcelona (Barcelona, Spain)

Win at the 2004 Euroleague final with Maccabi Tel Aviv (Tel Aviv, Israel)

Win at the 2005 Euroleague final with Maccabi Tel Aviv (Moscow, Russia)

Kestas
02-24-2006, 07:16 AM
. But if the guy is yelling back, he doesn't respect you, and that particular play told me a lot.


come on! even Dirk doesn't get a half of respect he deserves from his teammates. the problem is deep. Saras can handle it though.

look at how, say, Macijauskas is treated by Hornets and their coach. like a peace of shi.t. this would be unacceptable everywhere but in NBA. Saras gets so much respect, it's perfect imho..

bambam
02-24-2006, 07:25 AM
i think sarunus will be a good backup PG, but he has to stop crying all the time. he is starting to act like JO did to the refs, he needs to realize he is a rookie. he has thrown way to many temper tantrums (sp).Remember the time jackson wouldnt give him the ball and he stomped to the other side of the court...LOL

Moses
02-24-2006, 07:29 AM
i think sarunus will be a good backup PG, but he has to stop crying all the time. he is starting to act like JO did to the refs, he needs to realize he is a rookie. he has thrown way to many temper tantrums (sp).Remember the time jackson wouldnt give him the ball and he stomped to the other side of the court...LOL
Speaking of temper tantrums, why wasn't Sheed thrown out of the game earlier in? :laugh:

Lithfan
02-24-2006, 07:32 AM
Another Saras story blown out of proportion.
Why do you people hate him so much?!?

I saw that pass and the whole situation. It appeares to me that Granger should have grabbed it, but he didn't expect it and thought that it intended to Harrison behind him. However, usually its passer fault.

In any case what happened? So they yelled at each other for a sec, so what?!? Big deal

Pacesetter
02-24-2006, 09:16 AM
I think everybody will be happy, including Saras if he is moved.

Thats bull****! Granger has a temper, and I've seen him yell back at Fred, Jack, etc ... he's passionate and I wouldn't want anything different. Saras did nothing wrong at all. He is passionate too. This ain't figure skating! People gettin in each others *** is all part of it. It's normal group dynamics, happens in every work environment where people are adjusting to each other! People are going to get into it when they're feelin each other out.

Pacesetter
02-24-2006, 09:20 AM
Another Saras story blown out of proportion.
Why do you people hate him so much?!?

I don't hate him, I admire him, and truly appreciate what he can do. Sarunas did NOT win an MVP in the euroleague finals for being a cupcake. I like him a lot and this is making a mountain out of a mole hill! :rolleyes:

RWB
02-24-2006, 09:28 AM
Wow! Cabbage barks at Granger for his bad pass and its not a big thing?

Granger was right to look at Cabbage hard about that bullet pass and to stand up for himself, no miscommunication there Hicks, that was a baseball pass.

I'm right with you Tim. The thing with Saras is, for every 10 botched up plays he may acknowledge he caused one. He needs an attitude adjustment if he wants to be the leader of this team. I don't subscribe to the Bob Knight way of leadership when it comes to the players on the floor.

Will Galen
02-24-2006, 09:55 AM
I've come to the conclusion that the best thing for the Pacers to do is to trade Saras.

I watched him pointing out what he felt was a miscue by Granger and Granger stormed right back. It isn't that I mind that Saras has balls. You want your PG to be a person who keeps people in line. But if the guy is yelling back, he doesn't respect you, and that particular play told me a lot.

I do think Saras is a good player, but he obviously has not been able to be the type of player he wants to be in this system. I can't imagine the Pacer brass viewed the "Best Player in Europe" as a 2nd string PG. It just doesn't make any sense.

I think everybody will be happy, including Saras if he is moved.


AJ and Foster got into it a couple ball games ago. I don't recall anyone wanting to get rid of one of them because of it.

Lithfan
02-24-2006, 10:56 AM
I'm right with you Tim. The thing with Saras is, for every 10 botched up plays he may acknowledge he caused one. He needs an attitude adjustment if he wants to be the leader of this team. I don't subscribe to the Bob Knight way of leadership when it comes to the players on the floor.

Thats true.

He did the same in Europe. But I think its not as severe as some people here think.

RWB
02-24-2006, 11:06 AM
Lith, I love the man's energy and enthusiam. I just wish he could channel it differently at times. The greats lead because of respect and not out of intimidation. Saras absolutely has the leadership qualities in him and I hope he is still going through some adjustments.

brichard
02-24-2006, 11:17 AM
AJ and Foster got into it a couple ball games ago. I don't recall anyone wanting to get rid of one of them because of it.

Well there are several portions of my post that people are not acknowledging, and perhaps it is because I'm doing a poor job explaining it.

1. This is not the first time Saras has been going at it with is team members on the floor. I can't say I remember all of them, but the Jax thing is a good example. One example and I'm blowing it out of proportion, but I believe there have been more.

2. For Saras' fans, I've not done anything here to say I don't think he is a good player. I just think there are better team fits for any player. I have a hard time thinking that anybody, be you a fan or enemy of Saras, that thinks this has been the ideal situation for him.

The AJ/Foster thing just seems to be a one time deal from what I have seen. Jax has gotten into it with several players and it has been an issue. It seems to me that Saras does the same thing and he always does it in a very public way.

He is either doing it on the court in front of the crowd, or he is saying veiled complaints about his team in the media. I for one think he would be much better off doing some instruction in the lockerroom or with tapes.

Dan Marino yelled at his players in football on a regular basis, but he was the undisputed leader of that team. I just don't think Saras has attained that with the Pacers, at least not yet, and it just doesn't look good IMHO.

NaptownBound
02-24-2006, 11:29 AM
This whole thread is hilarious to me :laugh:

to paraphrase, someone actually said Granger is a hothead/yeller and has a temper. just.... stop. please.

it was one little thing.

Saras fired the ball and Danny G. didn't expect it.
words were exchanged and play continued.

they moved on... let us do the same.

Jermaniac
02-24-2006, 11:30 AM
Some posters here bash everyone but Jermaine:)When he deserves to get bashed I'm quick to bash Jermaine

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 12:04 PM
When he deserves to get bashed I'm quick to bash Jermaine

Yes, my statement most probably was an exageration, as well as your prior statement:)
Saras does many mistakes, and I'm sure almost every of his fans would recognize that. However, most of what people call his 'mistakes' here are hard to bash for Europeans because we saw those very mistakes - a bit risky passing based on who should be in some position as opposed to who is in some position, over-emotional communication with teammates, frank public speaking - translate into wins too many times.
When he does that, we tend to think of a long term goals of the team as opposed to one particular play, unless he does smth clearly inappropriate - like saying he wants to go to Cleveland, which he apparently hasn't done so far.

I don't think that any of Saras'supporters here isn't Pacers' fan at the same time. Most of them, including me, are probably Pacers' fans from the Bulls era. We are just confident Saras can help the team, and even his so-called 'mistakes' should translate into benefits for the team in the long term.
It's not some kind of 'superstar affection', he with all his ups-and-downs and character marks have simply been in the field of view of many European fans for some 5 or more years already, thus they undoubtedly have more trust in him:)

Pacesetter
02-24-2006, 04:26 PM
The AJ/Foster thing just seems to be a one time deal from what I have seen. Jax has gotten into it with several players and it has been an issue. It seems to me that Saras does the same thing and he always does it in a very public way.


AJ and Foster are not a one time deal - I've seen AJ in Foster's *** atleast once per game it seems like. That's nothing new though, I've seen AJ on everyone's case. If I am the point guard and we're running through plays and your out on space mountain somewhere, you're going to hear about it in a very public way - because that's the job of a pg.

Granger gave Saras as good as he got, so no harm no foul, imo. Granger is nobody's *****, he's gonna let you know he's got a pulse if you go overboard with your emphasis. Trust me, Granger don't play around when he has something to say - the guy will stand up to anyone. Sarunas will figure out where he can push it, and where he can't. 9/10 times Granger would just let it ride, but Sarunas went a little too far, and Granger calmly brought him back down to earth, which is what they all have to do for each other. It's normal.

Sarunas is trying to find his niche on this team, and has met resistence every step of the way. However, from AJ right on through the roster, we've got players who have the capacity to help groom each other, and that is going to take everyone being patient, and learn each game out.

Sarunas is a team player, and I love what he's doing. The thoughts of trading him before this team truly has reached the performing level would be a complete waste of time. The team has already been in the trenches with each other for 51 games. Now the trade deadline has passed, so they can either run around pouting or get together in a big way and start handling opponents. Don't underestimate Sarunas value. Without Sarunas AJ would have played just well enough to hold the position. Sarunas' fire is a great thing because it fires up people's thinking caps. He needs to continue what has made him great thus far, but he needs to exercise good judgement about when missed plays are his fault, and when they're not. He's done great in Euroleague, but to become great in this league he's got to keep on working his butt off.

FrenchConnection
02-24-2006, 05:21 PM
Another Saras story blown out of proportion.
Why do you people hate him so much?!?

I saw that pass and the whole situation. It appeares to me that Granger should have grabbed it, but he didn't expect it and thought that it intended to Harrison behind him. However, usually its passer fault.

In any case what happened? So they yelled at each other for a sec, so what?!? Big deal

Maybe that is not a big deal in Europe, where soccer players yell at each other all the time, but here it is not done. When it does it is a scandle, like when TO and McNabb got into it on the sidelines in Pittsburgh. If someone does it, he has to be the acknowledged team leader, like Jordan or Tim Duncan. Team dynamics are different here, and I think that Saras has not made that adjustment. Yesterday, you accused me of hating Saras too, but I love him as a player. He just has some adjustments to make and he seems to not realize it. The sooner he does, the sooner he becomes an effective NBA player.

fifo
02-24-2006, 05:45 PM
AJ and Foster are not a one time deal - I've seen AJ in Foster's *** atleast once per game it seems like. That's nothing new though, I've seen AJ on everyone's case. If I am the point guard and we're running through plays and your out on space mountain somewhere, you're going to hear about it in a very public way - because that's the job of a pg.

Granger gave Saras as good as he got, so no harm no foul, imo. Granger is nobody's *****, he's gonna let you know he's got a pulse if you go overboard with your emphasis. Trust me, Granger don't play around when he has something to say - the guy will stand up to anyone. Sarunas will figure out where he can push it, and where he can't. 9/10 times Granger would just let it ride, but Sarunas went a little too far, and Granger calmly brought him back down to earth, which is what they all have to do for each other. It's normal.

Sarunas is trying to find his niche on this team, and has met resistence every step of the way. However, from AJ right on through the roster, we've got players who have the capacity to help groom each other, and that is going to take everyone being patient, and learn each game out.

Sarunas is a team player, and I love what he's doing. The thoughts of trading him before this team truly has reached the performing level would be a complete waste of time. The team has already been in the trenches with each other for 51 games. Now the trade deadline has passed, so they can either run around pouting or get together in a big way and start handling opponents. Don't underestimate Sarunas value. Without Sarunas AJ would have played just well enough to hold the position. Sarunas' fire is a great thing because it fires up people's thinking caps. He needs to continue what has made him great thus far, but he needs to exercise good judgement about when missed plays are his fault, and when they're not. He's done great in Euroleague, but to become great in this league he's got to keep on working his butt off.

Got to say I really enjoy reading your posts.

Lithfan
02-24-2006, 06:39 PM
Maybe that is not a big deal in Europe, where soccer players yell at each other all the time, but here it is not done. When it does it is a scandle, like when TO and McNabb got into it on the sidelines in Pittsburgh. If someone does it, he has to be the acknowledged team leader, like Jordan or Tim Duncan. Team dynamics are different here, and I think that Saras has not made that adjustment. Yesterday, you accused me of hating Saras too, but I love him as a player. He just has some adjustments to make and he seems to not realize it. The sooner he does, the sooner he becomes an effective NBA player.

Are you sure about this yelling thing?
Look what other people said on this thread. More than half think its nothing. And I didn't accuse you, it was probably Kestas or Rytas...:-p

RedPitSea
02-24-2006, 07:42 PM
Maybe im wrong here but in two years I never saw Danny show up another player on the court. In fact he would actually go up to the player and tell them how "we" could do it better next time. Danny loved his teammates and they loved Danny. I didnt see what happened so I cant comment but just a little history on DG. Im guessing one of those "heat of the moment" things.

SwissExpress
02-24-2006, 07:51 PM
During several recent monthes there were at least three threads and a variety of posts saying how good is the chemistry between Danny and Saras. There were posts in game threads on how well they share the ball. Now it's all suddenly forgotten because of one badly shared ball and some in-game arguing on that.

Do so many fans seriously believe that chemistry dissapears so easily, and that two smart players may forget all their good communication because of one emotional misscommunication so suddenly? Or is it simply the silent doubters becoming louder?

Julius Sour
02-27-2006, 09:25 AM
I think the tightest chemistry between 2 players on our team is between Sarunas and Granger...

Aye!

Saras "loves" Youngster for his guts and balls. Someone here has written "that is not Lithuania"... I wish In America You could be one tenth this honest with each other that we are... Tell the truth in Ya Face and the process of getting better will be faster and much more constructive.

JS

Mourning
02-27-2006, 02:33 PM
Some people are reading a mighty lot into a tiny thing in my humble opinion. What's the fuss all about?

Seems like some want somethings to go wrong, maybe because of the spectacle or maybe because they have become used to it the last few years.

I don't read anything into this though, just like I also didn't read anything about JO sitting on the sidelines and supposedly not beying "happy" enough for the team winning a game without him.

Regards,

Mourning :cool: