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View Full Version : 2 Overlooked MVP possiblities



J_2_Da_IzzO
02-20-2006, 12:41 PM
We here the same names of Iverson, Kobe, Nash, LeBron etc. but I think 2 players worth mentioning are Shawn Marion and Chris Paul.

Last time I mentioned Marion someone said hes only playing well because of Nash, that might be right for his points but his rebounding has been amazing and along with his steals and blocks he has kept, along with Nash, Phoenix as contenders without Amare.

Marion
PPG - 21.1
RPG - 11.9
APG - 1.8
SPG - 1.98
BPG - 1.88

FG% - .509
FT% - .784
3P% - .309

Those numbers are quite amazing in my eyes.

Chris Paul on the other hand doesnt have quite those numbers but has made New Orleans a playoff contender single handedly. He is an amazing player and might win an MVP award later in his career but at the beginning of this year who thought he would propel New Orleans to where they are at.

Paul
PPG - 15.9
RPG - 5.6
APG - 7.7
SPG - 2.17 (2nd in NBA)

FG% - .432
FT% - .826

Now I know they wont get MVP but there names should be thrown into the mix at least.

Chauncey
02-20-2006, 12:46 PM
Both are having great years...I actually think that we've seen better basketball this year than we have in a long time and there's also 6-7 legitimate MVP candidates at this point who can win the award with a great 2nd half of the year

rexnom
02-20-2006, 01:12 PM
How did Ray Allen get an all-star spot over Chris Paul again? CP3 has stats, intangibles, and team success over Ray. Screw seniority.

Sollozzo
02-20-2006, 01:21 PM
How did Ray Allen get an all-star spot over Chris Paul again? CP3 has stats, intangibles, and team success over Ray. Screw seniority.



Ray Allen is one of, if not the best shooter in the league. Paul will have his time. Lebron wasn't selected his rookie season either.

Skaut_Ech
02-20-2006, 01:31 PM
Ray Allen is one of, if not the best shooter in the league. Paul will have his time. Lebron wasn't selected his rookie season either.

Maybe so, but he doesn't put up nearly as impressive numbers, nor have as big of an impact for his team. I love Ray, but if the voting was fair (which we know it ain't), Chris would be in there.

3ballinhoop
02-20-2006, 03:26 PM
Funny that you name 6 names in this thread, but not Nowitzki. Dallas has the best record in the west, and if you read realgm, their mvp thread has Dirk topping most recent lists.

Dallas lost Nash, but got better. Now they dominate the NBA. Watch a mavs game and you see how average players look great because they get so much space when Dirk is doubleteamed. Taking the records, you can eliminate Kobe or Lebron. Marion can not be MVP with Nash by his side, thats absurd.
Nash isnt good enough to be mvp twop years in a row.
Nowitzki is the hottest candidate right now, but the Mavs need to keep playing this impressive in the second season half.

J_2_Da_IzzO
02-20-2006, 04:51 PM
Nowitzky IS a name being mentioned as a possible MVP tho. Im stating 2 players that have not been mentioned.

And if it was about records then Billups should take MVP ahead of Nowitzky and I still see Spurs finishing with a better record then Dallas so therefore Duncan should get it. If it was all about records and who is getting double teamed then Jermaine should have won MVP 2 years ago.

Why is it absurd that Marion cannot get MVP with Nash by his side??? I know he wont get it but I dont get why its absurd. Nash isnt pushing Marion around the court to get rebounds, he isnt pushing Marion into players to get blocks or steals but he is helping him get points, but thats all.

3ballinhoop
02-20-2006, 05:27 PM
To me it doesn't really make sense that a team that isn't really THE elite team but just a good one should have two different league MVPs two seasons. Nash can't get it either because he is not, and much more important Phoenix is not, dominating in a way to warrant two MVP titles in a row over all the other deserving candidates.
It says a lot to lose the MVP to another team and still become even better in the fashion Dallas displays.

When the Pacers had the best record, O'Neal would have been the right MVP if he had been the clear superstar and leader of the team. Was he? I din't follow the Pacers at that time.

Moses
02-20-2006, 07:30 PM
Funny that you name 6 names in this thread, but not Nowitzki. Dallas has the best record in the west, and if you read realgm, their mvp thread has Dirk topping most recent lists.

Dallas lost Nash, but got better. Now they dominate the NBA. Watch a mavs game and you see how average players look great because they get so much space when Dirk is doubleteamed. Taking the records, you can eliminate Kobe or Lebron. Marion can not be MVP with Nash by his side, thats absurd.
Nash isnt good enough to be mvp twop years in a row.
Nowitzki is the hottest candidate right now, but the Mavs need to keep playing this impressive in the second season half.
So are you meaning to tell me Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and company aren't good players? Hell, Those guys are nearly all-stars. If you put Dirk all alone on a team like Kobe and Lebron, I guarantee you the team is below .500.

Pacersfan46
02-20-2006, 07:40 PM
Dallas lost Nash, but got better. Now they dominate the NBA. Watch a mavs game and you see how average players look great because they get so much space when Dirk is doubleteamed. Taking the records, you can eliminate Kobe or Lebron. Marion can not be MVP with Nash by his side, thats absurd.

Who dominates the NBA? Dallas? If that's what you're saying, you're watching a different NBA than the rest of the world.

There's this little NBA team that has a better record, AND a track record of doing something in the playoffs. I think they hail from Detroit?


So are you meaning to tell me Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and company aren't good players? Hell, Those guys are nearly all-stars. If you put Dirk all alone on a team like Kobe and Lebron, I guarantee you the team is below .500.

Well I guarantee your guarantee is one that you can't prove. Rendering your "guarantee" meaningless.

Moses
02-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Well I guarantee your guarantee is one that you can't prove. Rendering your "guarantee" meaningless.
So..Dirk is better then Kobe and Lebron? Interesting. Good luck with that.

And yes, Dallas has been dominating lately in blowout fashion. They are 20-2 in the last month and a half or so and were winning by a margin of 15-20 points a game on a regular basis.

Pacersfan46
02-20-2006, 07:51 PM
So..Dirk is better then Kobe and Lebron? Interesting. Good luck with that.

And yes, Dallas has been dominating lately in blowout fashion. They are 20-2 in the last month and a half or so and were winning by a margin of 15-20 points a game on a regular basis.

So we're better off with Ron Artest, since he's more physically talented than Peja, right? Good luck with THAT.

Colts went 13 and 0 over the course of 4 months .... saw where that got'em. Dallas will probably be much the same.

Moses
02-20-2006, 07:55 PM
So we're better off with Ron Artest, since he's more physically talented than Peja, right? Good luck with THAT.

Colts went 13 and 0 over the course of 4 months .... saw where that got'em. Dallas will probably be much the same.
The Colts and the Mavericks are a completely different story. The Mavericks aren't led by a known choke artist who wont hand the ball off. Not to mention Dallas completely dominated Detroit the first time they played..What was the final score 119-81 or something like that?

I didn't say anything about Ron Artest or Peja..Maybe you posted in the wrong thread?

Back on topic, Chris Paul should be considered because he turned a lottery team into a playoff contender and Shawn Marion should be simply because of the fact that he is such a great rebounder from the 3 and 4 position. Should either of them win this year? Not likely. Chris Paul will win a few before his career is done and Marion may get one sooner or later to if he continues to elevate his play.

Pacersfan46
02-20-2006, 07:59 PM
How are they completely different? Both have been contenders for a while, but not been able to get to the big game/series on the strength of being all offense, no defense. Both this year had "better defense" and watch, Dallas will find a way to lose to San Antonio again.

You didn't say anything about Peja, and Artest specifically. However, anyone with half a working brain should be able to figure out the connection I was making. You obviously implied having the better individual talent will always equal better team success. Again, meaning that we're better off with Artest, than Peja.

Moses
02-20-2006, 08:03 PM
But I doubt the Mavericks will get the calls the Colts got against the Steelers. :laugh:

I don't really know how well Dirk would do, but I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that he would be no better off then Kobe and Lebron are at the moment so being on a bad team shouldn't disqualify you from MVP contention.

J_2_Da_IzzO
02-20-2006, 08:06 PM
To me it doesn't really make sense that a team that isn't really THE elite team but just a good one should have two different league MVPs two seasons. Nash can't get it either because he is not, and much more important Phoenix is not, dominating in a way to warrant two MVP titles in a row over all the other deserving candidates.
It says a lot to lose the MVP to another team and still become even better in the fashion Dallas displays.

When the Pacers had the best record, O'Neal would have been the right MVP if he had been the clear superstar and leader of the team. Was he? I din't follow the Pacers at that time.

Dallas didnt lose the MVP, they lost a good player who turned into an MVP because his style of play suited Marion and Amare well.

Marions averaging well above 20/10 this year, 4th in rebounding, 3rd in steals and is top 15 in 5 other categories. He also has the most double doubles in the league with 40 and is the 4th most efficient player in the league. This year Dallas >>> Suns but Marion >>>> Dirk.

Plus you saying Dirk makes his team look like great players making them sound below par but in my opinion Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, Keith Van Horn, Josh Howard, Devin Harris & Dampier are pretty decent players to have round you.

Moses
02-20-2006, 08:09 PM
I think Marions defense is somewhat under-rated. If anyone could win MVP and DPOY, It would be Marion, Artest, or Kirilenko...All 3 are moderately under-rated players...Well I guess Artest really shouldn't count. Everyone knows about him but what good is an MVP and DPOY if he is suspended for the entire season.

J_2_Da_IzzO
02-20-2006, 08:10 PM
I think Marions defense is somewhat under-rated. If anyone could win MVP and DPOY, It would be Marion, Artest, or Kirilenko...All 3 are moderately under-rated players.

Yep I read somewhere and different points this season Marion has guarded every position on the floor.

rexnom
02-21-2006, 10:39 AM
Yep I read somewhere and different points this season Marion has guarded every position on the floor.

Fairly sure that's Diaw and let's take it easy for a sec. Marion is putting up very good numbers on a very good team. HOWEVER, he is not nearly as valuable to that team as say Dirk is to the Mavs. Dirk's teammates aren't subpar but they aren't all-stars either. They all have flaws. Dirk's play helps bring out the best in each one. Who would have thought three years ago that Jerry Stackhouse would be a good sixth man or even accept that part? Or that Keith van Horn could be effective again? How about Jason Terry being a point guard on a contending team? Could anyone have foreseen that? Also, Dirk's offense allows the Mavs to put someone out there (Diop) who is a non threat. Because Dirk is such a good passer, shooter, and scorer, you have to adjust your defense to him. And ask anyone who follows Dallas closely and they'll tell you Dirk defers too much sometimes. Something that Kobe, AI, and LeBron all are starting to forget.