PDA

View Full Version : A bit on J.O.



Pacersfan.
02-19-2006, 02:58 PM
My dozen wishes for the All-Star Game
Stein
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

I wish to see a swift return to health for Stein Line favorite J. O'Neal, who came to All-Star Weekend to participate in everything he can in spite of his groin injury. JO told me he'll definitely make it back for the playoffs and maybe in time to get a few regular-season reps in April before the postseason. Which tells me that Miami and New Jersey, for first-round purposes, will be hoping the Pacers finish fifth or eighth in the East.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/allstar2006/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2335822

Hopefully J.O. comes back before the playoffs and we can experiment with him by letting him come off the bench for the first few games. We need him because we need a post threat in the playoffs. If he's willing to pass out as he was towards the beginning of the year then I think it'll work out, esp. with Peja on the wings. I'm thinking not only Miami and NJ will be hoping to not meet up with the Pacers, but also the Pistons will be hoping that Pacers end up anywhere but eighth.

Pacersfan.
02-19-2006, 03:10 PM
I guess Dupree feels he'll fit in too.

Dave in NOLA: From watching Peja with his new team, and the new up tempo and passing style used by the Pacers, I see a real problem when JO returns in 6 weeks or so. Typically, the entire offense has been directed through him prior to his injury. Do you see a conflict or problem when JO returns, or will the Pacers continue to pass and move the ball? Thanks!!

David DuPree: J.O. will adjust. He just wants to win.

http://transcripts.usatoday.com/Chats/transcript.aspx?c=607

Bball
02-19-2006, 03:15 PM
I fear JO won't have to adjust because Carlisle will go back to his safety blanket... back to his comfort zone... back to his nature...
"Throw it into JO"

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

But we'll see... I sure hope the "Throw it into JO and watch" offense has been relegated to the scrapheap of history.

-Bball

Pig Nash
02-19-2006, 03:42 PM
I don't think it will come back because we only have JO as a post presence. I think at one point on a RC show, someone posed that question, and Carlisle said the offense was going to be different regardless because Artest was gone. I think the offense will at least evolve a little.

indygeezer
02-19-2006, 05:38 PM
I don't think it will come back because we only have JO as a post presence. I think at one point on a RC show, someone posed that question, and Carlisle said the offense was going to be different regardless because Artest was gone. I think the offense will at least evolve a little.


What happened last year when JO came back w/o Ron? Yeah, right back into the same garbage can. Granted we made it to the 2nd round but EC 1st round competition ain't all that.
History repeats itself.

Ragnar
02-19-2006, 05:41 PM
What happened last year when JO came back w/o Ron? Yeah, right back into the same garbage can. Granted we made it to the 2nd round but EC 1st round competition ain't all that.
History repeats itself.

We only made it out of the first round because Tinsley limped back early and tore his leg up worse. Ricks system did not work, Jamaal did.

Fireball Kid
02-19-2006, 07:02 PM
If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is that Rick Carlisle will become "The Real Rick Carlisle" again when Jermaine O'Neal returns.......if that makes any sense.

Bball
02-19-2006, 07:07 PM
What happened last year when JO came back w/o Ron? Yeah, right back into the same garbage can. Granted we made it to the 2nd round but EC 1st round competition ain't all that.
History repeats itself.


And we were playing a very similar style of ball, without JO, and with success (just like we are now) and Rick went right back to it (The "Throw it to JO Offense") upon JO's return.

Past history is a very good indicator of future actions.

A tiger eventually goes tiger... Artest eventually went Artest...

Carlisle is Carlisle.

All the Detroit people told us Carlisle would overuse Curry last season and what happened? Curry started :eek:
Haislip probably brought more to the team and we jettisoned him yet Curry arrived and quickly became a starter. Of course Carlisle eventually did the right thing... eventually...

Carlisle is, if anything, predictable. He's also a very, very good coach... except when he's not. IOW, he's got flaws. OTOH, it's not like he's been an NBA HC for 10 years. It's not like it would be impossible for him to evolve and change. We'll just have to wait and see.

-Bball

t1hs0n
02-19-2006, 07:49 PM
Ya, why place any blame or stress on JO when you can just blame Carlisle.

Even if the system calls for the ball to go into the post for JO on every play there is no rule/law/maxim that says he has to turn into a black hole.

Keep the movement at the wings and get JO to pass out of the double teams in the post and everyone wins.

Bball
02-19-2006, 08:01 PM
Ya, why place any blame or stress on JO when you can just blame Carlisle.

Even if the system calls for the ball to go into the post for JO on every play there is no rule/law/maxim that says he has to turn into a black hole.

Keep the movement at the wings and get JO to pass out of the double teams in the post and everyone wins.

Well, yeah, I do wonder about that too... But if JO continually bogs down the offense in that way (against the true design and intentions of the offense) then eventually it reflects on coaching (and/or) management to let it continue.

That's why there's an elephant in the living room right now. As long as we continue to play well without JO the question will remain. Nothing says Carlisle and JO aren't both somewhat to blame for the "Throw it into JO and watch" offense. As far as I'm concerned all possibilities exist right now and nothing has truly been answered. We just don't know.

-Bball

J_2_Da_IzzO
02-19-2006, 08:12 PM
BUT we havent yet seen what Rick will do with JO and Peja on court together so until then we wont know. He is not a stupid coach and last season he probably felt when JO comes back we should go back to the usual offense because we had no Artest and no Tinsley so JO was far and away our biggest threat.

This season however with Peja and Jax working well together and Harrison, Pollard & Foster fighting for that centre spot JO will have less of a load to carry when he returns so maybe Rick will continue playing as we are. Plus JO said he likes the new offense and Rick must of heard this so he really does need to consider it.

Pacersfan.
02-20-2006, 02:45 PM
Here's some more stuff:

NBA ALL-STAR GAME NOTEBOOK
Pacers' O'Neal won't demand ball when he returns

Janny Hu

Monday, February 20, 2006



Houston -- Injured All-Star Jermaine O'Neal plans on being back for Indiana's postseason run should the Pacers, currently seeded fifth in the Eastern Conference, make the playoffs.

"But I have the opportunity to be back in a few weeks," he said Sunday.

O'Neal hasn't played since Jan. 24 because of a groin injury. He wouldn't give an tighter estimate for his return, but says he is looking forward to finding his role in a Pacers offense that now includes sharpshooter Peja Stojakovic.

"We've been basically a half-court team and we're not a very good half-court team. We have up-tempo players," O'Neal said. "When I get back, I'm not going to demand 15, 20 shots a game. I'm going to get in exactly where I fit in."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/02/20/SPG9THBOPS1.DTL

naptownmenace
02-20-2006, 03:08 PM
BUT we havent yet seen what Rick will do with JO and Peja on court together so until then we wont know.

Thank you.

You guys are so silly sometimes. You conveniently overlook a few things that caused the team to revert to the dump it into JO offense:

1. Reggie deferred to JO too much when he returned. I don't necessarily think that was the plan originally but Reggie crept back into the shadows when JO first returned. Reggie had the ball in his hands a lot in the playoffs but instead of looking to keep the movement going he'd wait for JO to get set and throw it into the post. It would just kill the ball movement.

2. The Pacers outside shooters were all banged up in the playoffs. Fred had the broken finger, Croshere had a broken rib and back pain, Tinsley couldn't jump, and Reggie couldn't get his shot off with Pierce, Ricky Davis, and even Delonte West staying right in his jersey. By the time the playoffs rolled around Reggie and Dale were running out of gas. Jack and JO were the only viable weapons in the playoffs and even with a severely injured shoulder, JO was still the best option on offense.

Lack of outside shooting. Other than JJ and Jack to a certain degree, nobody was hitting their threes with any consistency. Reggie missed more wide-open threes than I can ever remember him missing in the playoffs. The Pistons gave up a ton of wide-open 3s because the Pacers weren't hitting. It was lack of outside shooting that did the Pacers in against Detroit, not putting the ball in JO's hands.

Black Sox
02-20-2006, 03:18 PM
The offense will be find when JO returns. Everyone is making a big deal about nothing, but in defense of everyone, if everyone didn't make a big deal out of nothing what would people write about? good things, nah thats boring.

OnlyPacersLeft
02-20-2006, 03:20 PM
no one can take JO one on one...if he gets that low post game going it's over...He needs to have a soft touch and not fade away so many times. DRIVE JO! then kick it out to our weapons in peja,granger,jack

Unclebuck
02-20-2006, 03:26 PM
I fear JO won't have to adjust because Carlisle will go back to his safety blanket... back to his comfort zone... back to his nature...
"Throw it into JO"

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

But we'll see... I sure hope the "Throw it into JO and watch" offense has been relegated to the scrapheap of history.

-Bball



What makes you so sure that "throw into J.O" is Rick's comfort blanket. I contend that the offense the Pacers are using right now in the halfcourt is the type of offense that Rick prefers. What do I base this on? I base this on Rick's 5 years prior to becoming the Pacers head coach.

During the 3 years as an assistant for the Pacers and then his two years with the Pistons, Rick ran an offense that did not look like the "dump it into J.O" offense.

But Rick comes here in the summer of 2003, and he looks and sees the Pacers best three players, Ron, J.O and Al are all post up players, so Rick smartly goes to a primarily a postup offense.

I think it is rather obvious what Rick would prefer.

DeS
02-20-2006, 03:49 PM
"We've been basically a half-court team and we're not a very good half-court team. We have up-tempo players," O'Neal said. "When I get back, I'm not going to demand 15, 20 shots a game. I'm going to get in exactly where I fit in."
Well, actualy I was a little sceptic on JO. But this quote gives me some hope. Acknowledging the problem and unselfishness tunes - thats what I needed to hear.

Jermaniac
02-20-2006, 04:01 PM
JO has said that many time before he said before he came back last year, and the first damn game he came back Rick scrapped our up tempo offense and went back to dumping it into JO. Thats exactly how it will be once JO comes back this year, but JO will be blamed for it and everyone will call for his head because of it.

waxman
02-20-2006, 04:08 PM
The Elephant went Tiger in the living room because Rick re-upolstered the Leopard skin couch.... :hmm:

Bball
02-20-2006, 04:08 PM
What makes you so sure that "throw into J.O" is Rick's comfort blanket. I contend that the offense the Pacers are using right now in the halfcourt is the type of offense that Rick prefers. What do I base this on? I base this on Rick's 5 years prior to becoming the Pacers head coach.

During the 3 years as an assistant for the Pacers and then his two years with the Pistons, Rick ran an offense that did not look like the "dump it into J.O" offense.

But Rick comes here in the summer of 2003, and he looks and sees the Pacers best three players, Ron, J.O and Al are all post up players, so Rick smartly goes to a primarily a postup offense.

I think it is rather obvious what Rick would prefer.

I hope you are right... But it would seem that with JO Rick seems to prefer him be the focal point of a primarily (almost exclusively) low post attack.

I base my rather loose theory on the fact that once JO returned last season we went right back to that same thing rather quickly (even after having success playing another way... and also still without Artest.. and with JO claiming he wanted them to continue the 'new' offense). I also base it on the fact that, even in the face of player grumbling and potential revolt (and some reason to think the Pacers could play another way), Rick has continued to use that offensive attack. Artest probably would've exploded anyway, but in hindsight it was a basically a given he wasn't going to last in the Pacer offense as it was going.

But I am not 'sure' that's what Carlisle will do (and I've said that)... But if I was asked to make my best guess that is what it would be.

I don't think Bird wants the team going back to that. And JO has said he'd prefer the offense stay more like it is currently. As far as the problems with the JOISOball offense, I think some fault has to fall on JO because he doesn't make quick decisions (or sometimes even good decisions) when he does get the ball in there. Is that coaching or is that the player ultimately at fault?

I keep saying that we will have to wait and see what transpires. It's all part of the story of that elephant in the living room ;)

In any case, I'm pretty happy right now. The next 10-12 games should be telling on just how far we've really come and I'm anxious to see them play out.

-Bball

Pacesetter
02-20-2006, 04:13 PM
Everything JO has said since day one has always had "team" at its core, and even now faced with the idea of what can help the team he says if it's him leaving, then that's what needs to happen. :-o But wait a minute JO, some internet experts say you're hogging the ball, being selfish, and that's what's hurting the team ... I digress ... :grinno:

Unclebuck
02-20-2006, 04:17 PM
I would predict that yes on occasion Rick will run some plays where J.O. is thrown the ball in the low post. Do you want the Pacers to never throw the ball to him in there. Do you want J.O. to only shoot 15 footers off pick and rolls. J.O. is not Jeff or Scot, he is not effectrive trying to play like those two guys.

So I predict that Rick will run a lot of the same stuff he is running now, but yes they will on occassion "dump it into J.O". We'll see if the world comes to an end

Moses
02-20-2006, 04:18 PM
Wow.

One too many animal comparisons to Carlisle for my liking. We've had elephants, leopards, tigers... any animals that we haven't covered yet that you guys would like to add? Cheetahs? Zebras?

Bball
02-20-2006, 04:29 PM
I would predict that yes on occasion Rick will run some plays where J.O. is thrown the ball in the low post. Do you want the Pacers to never throw the ball to him in there. Do you want J.O. to only shoot 15 footers off pick and rolls. J.O. is not Jeff or Scot, he is not effectrive trying to play like those two guys.

So I predict that Rick will run a lot of the same stuff he is running now, but yes they will on occassion "dump it into J.O". We'll see if the world comes to an end


No problem at all seeing it on occassion... and if JO learns to make quicker decisions with the ball then it's even less of a problem...

BUT-
I don't want to see it the whole game unless it is working and the other team can't stop it.
When we over-rely on it the other players get less involved, rebounding suffers (because it puts players out of position to rebound), morale probably suffers, we become easier to defend (predictable), etc. JO has a tendency not to always make the best decisions and so tends to force some things even as other team adjusts- which then leads to JO's other weakness being exposed (he loses his focus and starts whining to refs, forcing issue even more, takes himself mentally out of what we are trying to do and looks less like a leader on the floor than you'd want to see from someone in his position).

IOW... IMHO... A little might be good but too much is too much. By over-relying on it we aren't getting the best out of the team or JO.

BTW... I am in no way advocating a 'run and gun' attack.


-Bball

Will Galen
02-20-2006, 07:56 PM
Wow.

One too many animal comparisons to Carlisle for my liking. We've had elephants, leopards, tigers... any animals that we haven't covered yet that you guys would like to add? Cheetahs? Zebras?

We already have zebra's. They're the guys with the whistles.

Will Galen
02-20-2006, 07:57 PM
And the more I have read your posts over the years, the more I wonder if it isnt the coach as much as it is our "star" player.

Im sure Ill get based for it, but I just have to wonder sometimes........

Only if you are a chicken. (grin)