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View Full Version : Bball asks... Am I Crazy?



Bball
02-16-2006, 01:46 AM
Don't answer that... YET!

I really like what this team has become. I just got in from tonight's game and from sitting in some better seats than normal too :D

This motion offense works because we have some heady, unselfish players. It also works well for Carlisle, tho I don't know if he really realizes that. Teams have to prepare for a multi-faceted Pacer attack and also can no longer ASSUME they'll be able to outrebound the Pacers.

I really, really, really hope we'll be able to re-sign Pega. I'm not sure I've ever been quite so pleased... maybe it is that it is such a pleasant surprise... with a Pacer trade. Peja is so much more than I expected. His all around game fits in very well and I like watching him work without the ball. His defense must've been under-rated or under-utilized in Sacto because I think it fits in well here.

AJ is simply another player when we play this style. He's a heady player and that pays dividends when we ask the team to make basketball plays rather than dump it into JO and watch. Pollard... Foster... It's the same thing. We have some players who understand the game and hustle. I think having Pollard around Harrison is a major plus. And Harrison is a plus for this team. Few teams have an answer for Harrison due to his size and ability. He just needs time on the court, and it isn't like he's a liability when he is getting that time.

And are we sure Granger is a rookie? Even his 'bad' games are pretty solid for a rookie. Even during the 'black spell' this season he was a positive.

Stephen Jackson... Is his middle name "Enigma"? I'm not nearly as down on Jackson as some of you are. I think 11/19 left him with a rap that is worse than he deserves. That doesn't mean he always thrills me with his shot selection and moments on the court either. But, again, with the team playing unselfish basketball with motion, cutting, passing, it does seem to help with some of the Jackson moments. Tonight he didn't have a good game. I don't know whether he was sick or what but he appeared distracted. He cost us the ball a couple of times and I'm not sure what he was thinking. When he decides he needs to take a shot I'm much happier with him when he adds going strong to the hoop to the equation. I didn't think he did that much tonight. I think he ended up with 3 points. This is the guy who got 30 on 10 shots from the floor the other night. ...Enigma...
But in the end I thought he settled down and played some defense and dropped out of the offense. At least the guy seems to have the ability to come back from injury.

Sarunas...
Somebody help me here... I have no complaints about his play. I have no complaints about his passion on and off the court. He seems to be all about winning and 'playing the right way'. So why are some of you so down on him? Is he not living up to expectations you had? I like the fact that he is vocal on the court. I see him going out of his way on breaks to give the guys a rallying 'hand slap' and words of encouragement. Particularly with the young guy like David Harrison. Get these guys involved... I like seeing that.

He seems well schooled in the game and what needs to happen. I notice he understands to feed the hothand as well as make sure players get their touches. He might not be lightning in a bottle but he seems to have a knack for 'basketball plays'... especially in the clutch or big moments. I'm not talking about a big bucket as much as I am talking about managing to knock the ball away from his man or getting a hand on the ball in the passing lane. Even getting a board or tipping the ball to a Pacer.

And he doesn't seem preoccupied with his stats as much as the scoreboard.

Yes, every once in a while he makes a bad pass. But more often than not he makes a perfect pass right into the scorers hands in the position they want the ball. Yes, every once in a while he takes a questionable shot. But both of those negatives are not continually during the game. They usually standout when it happens just because he doesn't make a habit of mistakes like that on the offensive end.

I don't understand some of the 'anti-Sarunas' sentiment I see here from time to time.

Enough about that...

I thought Carlisle seemed to be adjusting the eggtimer this evening. I guess I'll always believe we let a great win slip away Sunday (San Ant) and I think Carlisle had a lot to do with it. But then Carlisle also had a lot to do with us being in the game in the first place. It is clear Carlisle really understands the game... it is questionable if he doesn't go into a Marty Shottenheimer shell just a little too easily. I think he has a fine team right now as-is. The sum may just be greater than the parts. He might need to step back and actually see what he's put together and learn to trust them.. and himself.

It's hard to be too down on winning 5 of 6 games, and with quality opponents in there, even with that 1 loss being extra disappointing. And that loss to San Antonio is about as close to a moral victory as a team can get. But there are no moral victories in the end.

I starting to believe it isn't just the homestand, tho that certainly doesn't hurt... But in any case- Winning breeds winning... and we are winning. We're winning by "playing the right way". We're winning with unselfishness. We're winning with quality play on both ends. We're winning with teamwork.
We're winning! :woot:

I think we can all be proud of this team.

Now, am I crazy?

-BBall

Note: As a fan I reserve the right to make knee jerk opinions and statements ;)

rexnom
02-16-2006, 02:01 AM
I think we can all be proud of this team.

Now, am I crazy?

-BBall

Note: As a fan I reserve the right to make knee jerk opinions and statements ;)

You are not crazy at all. I like what I'm seeing too. And I know teams might not have had a chance to "adjust" to us yet or whatever but I think in the playoffs we'll be the team no one wants to face. Do you think Detroit wants to play us? Miami? Indiana fun basketball is back...and this time I'd like to think it's here to stay (and Peja too?).

Fireball Kid
02-16-2006, 02:08 AM
I'm very proud of this team as well and I like the way we are playing as a whole unit. I just hope that the return of Jermaine O'Neal will make us an even better team and possibly a contender.

But assuming everyone is healthy, where does this leave Austin Croshere and Jammal Tinsley?

Bball
02-16-2006, 02:08 AM
You are not crazy at all. I like what I'm seeing too. And I know teams might not have had a chance to "adjust" to us yet

What is easier to prepare for:
A multifaceted attack where all 5 opposing players have to fight thru screens and chase the ball and dangerous shooters and slashers without the ball... as well as worry about getting a body on their man to keep him off the brds....
or
Stopping JO when the Pacers throw it into JO every play and then stand around and watch JO work either against the other team's best low post defender or a double team. Meanwhile, the other defenders are already between us and the basket and ready to hustle to the board for the rebound. Of course, except for JO's defender(s), the opposing players have to extend zero energy while they wait for the shot to go up.

-Bball

Mr. Pink
02-16-2006, 02:10 AM
If you can't enjoy this team right now...then there is something wrong. We're winning and playing some awesome ball to watch. If there was more back door passing, I think this team right now would look a lot like the Kings a couple years ago.

SwissExpress
02-16-2006, 02:13 AM
Damn, I haven't seen Pacers' game for such a long time now... I'm missing all the fun.

From what I read in your post, I think you are not crazy;)
I need to see it myself to believe, of course:) But I like those changes.

Harmonica
02-16-2006, 03:22 AM
It is clear Carlisle really understands the game... it is questionable if he doesn't go into a Marty Shottenheimer shell just a little too easily.

Plagiarizer

n : someone who uses another person's words or ideas as if they were his own

Arcadian
02-16-2006, 03:39 AM
As far as the Shottenheimer analogy goes sure Rick can get conservative. However, Marty's teams under achieve; Rick I don't think can ever be accused of having a team under achieve in the same way Marty does. Perhaps this has more with my dislike for Marty but comparing Rick to Marty is pretty harsh.

Bball
02-16-2006, 03:55 AM
As far as the Shottenheimer analogy goes sure Rick can get conservative. However, Marty's teams under achieve; Rick I don't think can ever be accused of having a team under achieve in the same way Marty does. Perhaps this has more with my dislike for Marty but comparing Rick to Marty is pretty harsh.

Blame Harmonica! He wants his proper credit for coming up with the analogy. :-p

I will have to come up with my own analogy but I really kinda liked his MartyBall analogy.

-Bball

Harmonica
02-16-2006, 04:54 AM
As far as the Shottenheimer analogy goes sure Rick can get conservative. However, Marty's teams under achieve; Rick I don't think can ever be accused of having a team under achieve in the same way Marty does. Perhaps this has more with my dislike for Marty but comparing Rick to Marty is pretty harsh.

I'm talking more about when he tries to protect a lead late in the game. Not overall.

Will Galen
02-16-2006, 08:16 AM
Jax HAD to be distracted about something. He couldn't hang on to the ball from the get go. I think he had 4 turnovers in the first quarter. (ended with 5)

He couldn't shoot either, and I really liked his response to all this. He kept his head and fit in, even passing up shots.

I really like THIS Jax!

What I'm worried about is what happens when JO, Tins and Cro come back. Having to many players is going to be a problem!

I really want JO to play like Granger. Granger hardly ever does a back to the basket iso. I think that's what most of us don't like. If he plays like Granger this team will be really hard to beat!

Cro won't complain about time, so he's no problem. However, Tinsley seems to be odd man out and I think he will throw a wrench into the works.

Back to the game.

I like that play that Saras and Dan do that usually results in a wide open jumper for Dan. That's what I would like to see JO do with Saras.

I was going to do more but I need to do my semi-monthly laundry.

Good post Bball!

Unclebuck
02-16-2006, 09:01 AM
Saras is great at making passes once he gets into the lane, and he is excellent at finding Harrison right under the basket.

Jax seemed a little disinterested last night, and then he got his eye scratched and really shouldn't been playing. But the Pacers really need his defense. Fred is good at defending the smaller shooting gaurds who like to drive, but he struggles against the catch and shoot guys and the bigger shootig guars. Pacers need Jax defense. Peja's defense is better than I expected, but I still don't want him guarding the other teams best offensive player

I feel the same way about Peja as I did about Reggie and Mullin. Whenever Peja is open I want him to shoot, I don't care how many seconds are on the shot clock or what else is going on.

Many of you won't agree with me, but I believe this is the way Rick wants his offense to be. I think he likes a lot of player and ball movement. But when you have J.O and Artest, especially Artest, and then you add in jax and Tinsley, the ball just isn't going to move that much. The Pistons during Rick's time there, moved the ball a lot, sure they didn't run much but that is a separate issue

When J.O comes back I want Pollard to continue starting, assuming Pollard can physically continue to do so, which I have serious doubts about once the schedule picks up in March.

Was Foster especially active last night or what. He's a lot stronger the people give him credit for, he was pushing the Bucks around last night, he's gotten good at the Dale Davis move, holding a guy with one arm and getting the rebound with the other. Although Dale got away with it more.

Rick gets frustrated with Saras and some of his loose passes. In fact Rick was very upset midway through the 4th, he called for a timout and kicked th ball. And that was right after a bad pass from Saras.

Harrison played very well last night, I wonder if it is too early to eat crow, yes too early at this time

Black Sox
02-16-2006, 09:22 AM
Carlisle does seem to get upset with Saras makes a turnover much more than when other players make one. I think he just expects more from him. But Saras is an excellent playmaker and fun to watch. Next year he will have a break out year. Big Foot needs to take Saras out to dinner for being the primarily reason for his increase in the stat board.

Unclebuck
02-16-2006, 09:25 AM
I just like the current chemistry of the starters and the chemistry of the reserves. And I worry about what will happen when players come back

sixthman
02-16-2006, 09:52 AM
Rick gets frustrated with Saras and some of his loose passes. In fact Rick was very upset midway through the 4th, he called for a timout and kicked th ball. And that was right after a bad pass from Saras.

Harrison played very well last night, I wonder if it is too early to eat crow, yes too early at this time

I'll admit it. Regarding Harrison, what several of you wrote earlier in the year angered me. Not so much about his basketball, but about his character. But since you are discussing eating crow so graciously, the distain turns to praise to you, overall one of the fairest, even-handed posters on the internet.

About Rick's uncharacteristic kicking of the ball, three things: First, I loved the emotion and it was so justified. Second, at least half that anger was at Foster and the interior defense which had just allowed the Buck to go right down Meridian Street for the uncontested, easy bucket; Third, it worked. Coming out of the time out the Pacers closed the deal.

While I thought Rick's instincts were wrong on Sunday, he was pushing the right buttons last night. Very impressive coaching performance last night, including the kick at the right exact time.

piksi
02-16-2006, 10:23 AM
I just like the current chemistry of the starters and the chemistry of the reserves. And I worry about what will happen when players come back

ever considered the possiblilty that things might get better ?

Will Galen
02-16-2006, 10:54 AM
ever considered the possiblilty that things might get better ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Too many players that can play. And I don't want Harrison and Granger being the ones to lose minutes! That's what I think will happen though.

We really need a couple two for one trades.

Unclebuck
02-16-2006, 11:03 AM
J.O is still out another 4 weeks or so.

But apparently Cro and JT are close to coming back.

Where do their minutes come from. And what effect will each have on the good chemistry e have right now.

6thman, I still think Harrison is a little off and I still question how good he'll ever be. But right now as the backup center playing 15 minutes per night he is playing well and is helping the team.

Outlaw
02-16-2006, 11:50 AM
I think everyone likes this style of play.The players are getting touches when on the floor. You don't mind passing the ball when you know you will see it again in the next posession or two. IOW you know that you will not be shut out of the offense with the dump it down stand around game.

One thing I notice about Sarunas is his passes to Harrison are soft and right where he can handle them.Not bullet passes or down at his feet where the ball can get stripped.I think Sarunas has done more for David's confidence than anybody else on the team.IMO:)

Oh and God IT IS NICE to win the rebounding battles. Proving this team can rebound.Of course playing this style and hustle players have alot to do with that.Not to mention players that block out.:yes: :woohoo: :happy:

owl
02-16-2006, 01:00 PM
Outlaw said..."Oh and God IT IS NICE to win the rebounding battles. Proving this team can rebound.Of course playing this style and hustle players have alot to do with that.Not to mention players that block out."


I am not sure what brings greater pleasure to me, rebounding better or
team play. Probably team play but rebounding is right there.
It is so critical to winning. Who keeps quoting P Riley?
"No rebounds, no title"


Just like "Reading is fundamental" , Rebounding is F U N D A M E N T A L.
And Jeff and Pollard are into fundamentals.


owl

sixthman
02-16-2006, 01:05 PM
ever considered the possiblilty that things might get better ?

Good and obvious point. Maybe because of all the bad things that have happened in the last several years, we've come to expect the worst. I've certainly turned my thinking around regarding JO and this team - I think his presence on the floor will help.

sixthman
02-16-2006, 01:12 PM
6thman, I still think Harrison is a little off and I still question how good he'll ever be. But right now as the backup center playing 15 minutes per night he is playing well and is helping the team.

Fair enough. On the other hand, I think maybe I've underestimated how good he will be. This kid is learning how to play at an impressive rate. He's smart and appears motivated, something he wasn't supposed to be.

brichard
02-16-2006, 01:25 PM
Bball,

I don't dislike Saras, I hate people picking on AJ. I have decided to be AJ's attorney :argue: on here because I don't think he gets much representation.

That being said, I do like Saras and I think he has some very unique abilities that could help this team. He may become our best point guard, but I think the jury is out on that. One my favorite talents of a player is passing ability, and he and Tinsley are the best on the team in that category.

It does grate on me that he seems to have so many negative things to say about the NBA. And there is a part of me that thinks, "If you don't like it... leave." However, I do hope he sticks around and becomes the difference maker we have all hoped for.

His defense is getting better and he anticipates passes well. My primary concern with him is that he seems to have difficulty putting two really strong games in a row. I'm not sure if that is just a Saras thing, if he is just getting accustomed to the NBA, or if his body just can't take that kind of a schedule.

Come playoff time he may be a real ace in the hole and I'm hoping he can be a "secret weapon." So many games are decided in the last minutes and he has a knack for doing the right things in those situations. I don't think you can teach that kind of poise, you either have it or you don't He definitely has it.

Anthem
02-16-2006, 03:24 PM
Yes.

:devil:

Unclebuck
02-16-2006, 05:11 PM
Fair enough. On the other hand, I think maybe I've underestimated how good he will be. This kid is learning how to play at an impressive rate. He's smart and appears motivated, something he wasn't supposed to be.


What I like most about him is he plays hard. But I wouldn't say he's an especially smart basketball player

SoupIsGood
02-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Harrison played very well last night, I wonder if it is too early to eat crow, yes too early at this time

Hehe

Fireball Kid
02-16-2006, 05:22 PM
One thing I notice about Sarunas is his passes to Harrison are soft and right where he can handle them.Not bullet passes or down at his feet where the ball can get stripped.I think Sarunas has done more for David's confidence than anybody else on the team.IMO:)

Oh and God IT IS NICE to win the rebounding battles. Proving this team can rebound.Of course playing this style and hustle players have alot to do with that.Not to mention players that block out.:yes: :woohoo: :happy:

I agree. David has a nice offense with the posts ups and a nice midrange shot. The picknrolls Saras does with David work very nicely.

Bball
02-16-2006, 05:40 PM
Yes.

:devil:

:buttkick:

-Bball

sixthman
02-16-2006, 06:26 PM
What I like most about him is he plays hard. But I wouldn't say he's an especially smart basketball player

I didn't mean to say he was a smart basketball player, I just said he was smart. There is a difference. ;) I wouldn't play him at crunch time, but he's getting a lot closer to being able to play when it really counts, which is kind of astounding considering where he was at the beginning of the year.

The kid is obviously listening to someone and is learning how to maximize his talents. Recently I've been impressed by his hands and his passing, something which once appeared to be a problem. Apparently JO spends a lot of time working with him on his offense, so props to JO for that. Maybe someone else should do the tutoring for the blocking out class? We have to remember Hulk is just in his second year - he has a long way to go before the learning will stop.

DeS
02-16-2006, 06:58 PM
Thanx BBall for this nice and hopeful reading!
Yet another thing, why people are starting to like this team is that this team wins and wins without its stars (starters) - it's like to see a youngster beating profesionals. It makes feel like this team has something special and You are starting to believe gingerly that this team can win big games this year.

NorCal_Pacerfan
02-16-2006, 09:09 PM
Everyone is crazy!

Good post!