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Young
02-15-2006, 09:19 PM
Wondering if anyone has ever used anything along these lines? Not anything illegal, or steriods, etc. Stuff you can buy easily.

Just curious if anyone has done this stuff, and if it really works. If so what did you use?

pollardfreek
02-15-2006, 09:21 PM
lol If this keeps up we'll have to create a health and fitness board.

Shade
02-15-2006, 10:10 PM
I started a trend.

Be afraid.

:uhoh2:

Stryder
02-15-2006, 10:18 PM
Stay away from the stuff.

The best way to build muscle is through good ol' fashioned hard lifting...

btowncolt
02-15-2006, 10:19 PM
Protein.

Eat meat.

Shade
02-15-2006, 10:21 PM
Yeah, I'd avoid any enchancers. They aren't proven to work and there are also some nasty side effects to some of them.

sweabs
02-15-2006, 10:31 PM
I use creatine on and off. Seems to work very well, and I have no problems. Just drink lot's of water while on it.

Since86
02-16-2006, 12:39 PM
In order for creatine to work, you have to drink TONS of water. All it does is retain the fluid in your muscle, for recovery and development.

Also, use 100% whey protein. That's the best stuff out on the market, that's actually proven.

All my EXSCI profs call the other stuff "voodoo." Most of the builders you see advertising supplements, don't use them their selves. I have a musclemag where Arnold talks about endorsing a couple of different products, but only using some kind of milk, goat's I think but I'm not sure.

Anything you buy, you're going to have to lift really hard anyways, so just stick with the basics, protein and creatine, and work you're tail off. Save you money, and frustration.

McClintic Sphere
02-16-2006, 12:48 PM
I second the whey protein reference. I recommend Jay Robb's ,as it is made without hormones (rBGH) or artificial sweeteners. There are lots of amino acids in there, which helps your muscles and brain.

btowncolt
02-16-2006, 01:54 PM
I second the whey protein reference. I recommend Jay Robb's ,as it is made without hormones (rBGH) or artificial sweeteners. There are lots of amino acids in there, which helps your muscles and brain.

I third the whey protein reference.

abington
02-16-2006, 01:56 PM
whey protein at a minimum. the next generation of creatine is pretty solid. does not dehydrate like in the past and works very fast. ive cylced off it because im trying to cut not gain, but it does work and appears to be relatively healthy. glutamine and bcaa aminos are huge for recovery. but my advice is to start a solid lifting program with only whey and once youve plauteau out, then go to the suppies.

Since86
02-16-2006, 02:18 PM
whey protein at a minimum. the next generation of creatine is pretty solid. does not dehydrate like in the past and works very fast. ive cylced off it because im trying to cut not gain, but it does work and appears to be relatively healthy. glutamine and bcaa aminos are huge for recovery. but my advice is to start a solid lifting program with only whey and once youve plauteau out, then go to the suppies.


Why do you say at a minimum? I've never heard of limiting your intake of it. Everything I've heard/read says take the recommended quantity of twice a day. Preferably after your workout and before you go to bed.

It's really the ONLY substance that I can say I haven't heard negatives about. Creatine is the second best, but it can only be effective if other things are in place as well. Whey protein stands on it's own, and is highly effective.

I know that all pro bodybuilders still use protein shakes. It's just interesting that you mention glutamine and bcaa aminos as essential, when they're found in whey.

abington
02-16-2006, 03:15 PM
Why do you say at a minimum? I've never heard of limiting your intake of it. Everything I've heard/read says take the recommended quantity of twice a day. Preferably after your workout and before you go to bed.

It's really the ONLY substance that I can say I haven't heard negatives about. Creatine is the second best, but it can only be effective if other things are in place as well. Whey protein stands on it's own, and is highly effective.

I know that all pro bodybuilders still use protein shakes. It's just interesting that you mention glutamine and bcaa aminos as essential, when they're found in whey.

I meant that Whey should be the minimum essential supplement, not that one should only take a minimum amount.

It has been my experience, and I've lifted hard core for about 5-years, that Bcaa and glutamine can be really helpful for muscle gains and weight loss when taken by themselves and in addition to protein. Meaning that it is beneficial to up the dosage of the aminos while keeping the whey protein level constant. While i dont have any scientific link, ive been told by a lot of trainers who are fairly knowledgeable that the amino's while dieting are essential in keeping your metabolism active.

Since86
02-16-2006, 03:30 PM
I meant that Whey should be the minimum essential supplement, not that one should only take a minimum amount.

It has been my experience, and I've lifted hard core for about 5-years, that Bcaa and glutamine can be really helpful for muscle gains and weight loss when taken by themselves and in addition to protein. Meaning that it is beneficial to up the dosage of the aminos while keeping the whey protein level constant. While i dont have any scientific link, ive been told by a lot of trainers who are fairly knowledgeable that the amino's while dieting are essential in keeping your metabolism active.


I gotcha.


Aside from supplements, you should really do your cardio work right after you get done lifting. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the hgh levels rocket if you do it after as opposed to doing it on seperate days/off days.

Gyron
02-16-2006, 03:30 PM
What if you do your cardio first?

Since86
02-16-2006, 03:33 PM
What if you do your cardio first?


It stays lower than doing it after. It's slow at work, so I'm going to run out to my car to find either the mag that it's in or my notes, I can't remember which.

I'll edit this post with the numbers.

EDIT: It must be in last months Flex mag., and that's at home.

This site says do cardio before working out, but doesn't give any numbers. It's in the very last paragraph if you really want to read it.

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/articles-submit/mary-desaulniers/stimulate-hgh-production.htm

Young
02-16-2006, 03:39 PM
Rommie,

I will say this, and keep in mind this is coming from someone who has always been small (I am 5'11, 155 lbs)

When I first started running, my coach was strictly against us using any of that ****.

I wanted to try it very badly, and I did go out and get some creatine.

I used it for a while, but it was making me sick and I just stopped after my 2nd injury, and I still have some up stairs in my old bed room.

I cant offer professional advise, but I would say check it out. Just google what ever substance you want to use, you can find more then enough information about the topic at hand, both pros and cons.

My parents were leary at first, cause some of the side effects of creatine seemed sketchy, and not that many long term ones have been discovered, at least not yet.

If I had a kid today (and lord help me if I did) I would tell them to leave it alone. I might let them expirement with it like I did, but like Btown said, the best source for building muscle is the proper diet along with a consistent workout routine.

Hope this helps,

-VA

Thanks for the perspective.

I've been tempted to try the stuff in the past, but not so much anymore. I always wondered about the side effects, etc.

abington
02-16-2006, 03:41 PM
I gotcha.


Aside from supplements, you should really do your cardio work right after you get done lifting. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the hgh levels rocket if you do it after as opposed to doing it on seperate days/off days.


That cuts both ways. I think if someone is interested in weight loss more than anything, they should do cardio first thing in the morning, before breakfast, to boost metabolism all day.

I usually lift. drink a shake. do a 1/2 hour of cardio all within the same time frame.

Since86
02-16-2006, 03:58 PM
That cuts both ways. I think if someone is interested in weight loss more than anything, they should do cardio first thing in the morning, before breakfast, to boost metabolism all day.

I usually lift. drink a shake. do a 1/2 hour of cardio all within the same time frame.

Agreed with the weight loss aspect.

But from what I remember about the article, which was basically showing the worlds best bodybuilders running and what-not, was that HGH levels are increased by doing anaerobic exercise. When you do cardio before the workout, or on seperate days, you're body was breathing at maximum capacity therefore only releasing minimal levels because you're working at an aerobic capacity.

But if you did it after your work out, your muscles were already struggling to keep in an aerobic state, and cardio pushed them into anaerobic which called for even more hgh to be released.

Doug
02-16-2006, 03:59 PM
I guess I wouldn't consider either creatine or glutamine as "muscle enhancers". The term "muscle enhancers" makes me think of things that are advertised as "legal steroids!" - gimmicks preying on the gullible.

Gyron
02-16-2006, 04:19 PM
hmm, Ive always did my cardio first. I guess I should try doing weights then Cardio.I was under the impression from my fitness trainers at the gym that anything to keep your heart rate up while you were lifting weights is a good thing. So doing the cardio first and then moving into weights was a good path. As a matter of fact when I did some of the free and paid fitness training sessions offered by the gym, they always had me do at least some cardio first to get my heart rate up before hitting the weights, etc.

Since86
02-16-2006, 05:02 PM
hmm, Ive always did my cardio first. I guess I should try doing weights then Cardio.I was under the impression from my fitness trainers at the gym that anything to keep your heart rate up while you were lifting weights is a good thing. So doing the cardio first and then moving into weights was a good path. As a matter of fact when I did some of the free and paid fitness training sessions offered by the gym, they always had me do at least some cardio first to get my heart rate up before hitting the weights, etc.


We do the same thing for weightlifting class (Yes, it's a required course:-p ) but we don't call it cardio. The prof. just tells us to "warm-up."

:shrug:

It's a thurs. night, so if I can actually think straight in the morning I'll grab that mag. and copy part of it.

sweabs
02-16-2006, 07:33 PM
I third the whey protein reference.

I'll fourth it.

Mmmm - vanilla.

Doug
02-16-2006, 07:44 PM
Protein powder mixed with oatmeal (real oatmeal - no sugar) and skim milk (or water) makes a pretty good "snack".

btowncolt
02-16-2006, 07:54 PM
Protein powder mixed with oatmeal (real oatmeal - no sugar) and skim milk (or water) makes a pretty good "snack".

I can't start or finish my day without a smoothie consisting of whey protein, natural peanut butter, yogurt, ice, and oatmeal.

abington
02-16-2006, 09:10 PM
hmm, Ive always did my cardio first. I guess I should try doing weights then Cardio.I was under the impression from my fitness trainers at the gym that anything to keep your heart rate up while you were lifting weights is a good thing. So doing the cardio first and then moving into weights was a good path. As a matter of fact when I did some of the free and paid fitness training sessions offered by the gym, they always had me do at least some cardio first to get my heart rate up before hitting the weights, etc.

There is a big difference in doing 5-10 warmup minutes at a moderate pace or a 1/2hour or more of hard core cardio. If you want to build size/mass, you should limit your before cardio to only that 5-10 warmup and keep the bulk of your energy/strength for lifting.

Gyron
02-17-2006, 08:49 AM
But what if you just want to tone, not really build mass. Im a big guy wanting to lose the gut and weight around my torso. Should I be doing the weights before or after cardio? Im so confused.

Since86
02-17-2006, 01:05 PM
But what if you just want to tone, not really build mass. Im a big guy wanting to lose the gut and weight around my torso. Should I be doing the weights before or after cardio? Im so confused.

**Disclaimer**

This is info. for all, not just directed at you because I have no idea your beliefs/routine.

**End Disclaimer**

Don't get sucked into thinking that ab workouts will make you loose fat in your gut, because you're working out that area. You can't spot lose fat. Your body determines where it will pull energy from, and which fat stores it will use up first.

Losing weight starts with your diet first and foremost. If that's not in check, you're going to have an extremely hard/slow fat burning process.

Second, I'd make cardio the stapple of your exercising, with lighter weights added in. You want to go on a cutting routine, and do reps in the range of 12-20.

Since86
02-17-2006, 01:15 PM
It's kind of interesting though. In one of my classes, each student has been assigned a supplement and we have to design a PowerPoint slide on it.

Here's a couple of sites that he said are great to use for info.

http://www.tsrf.com/supplements.htm
http://www.humankinetics.com/sdsu/content/toc.cfm

And here's a search engine for scholarly experiments. (I haven't looked at this one but just relaying what my Prof. said.)
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/search?sortspec=relevance&author1=&fulltext=CHO&pubdate_year=&volume=&firstpage=

Gyron
02-17-2006, 02:12 PM
**Disclaimer**

This is info. for all, not just directed at you because I have no idea your beliefs/routine.

**End Disclaimer**

Don't get sucked into thinking that ab workouts will make you loose fat in your gut, because you're working out that area. You can't spot lose fat. Your body determines where it will pull energy from, and which fat stores it will use up first.

Losing weight starts with your diet first and foremost. If that's not in check, you're going to have an extremely hard/slow fat burning process.

Second, I'd make cardio the stapple of your exercising, with lighter weights added in. You want to go on a cutting routine, and do reps in the range of 12-20.

Thanks 86. Ill keep that in mind.

Slick Pinkham
02-17-2006, 02:40 PM
These seem to be all-natural, just steel and various other naturally-occurring metal components:

http://www.bigstockphoto.com/thumb/medium/69013.jpg

Shade
02-21-2006, 08:30 PM
I actually went ahead and decided to start on creatine today. It seems safe enough, and actually tastes pretty good. :) It's kinda confusing, though, as 56g is one serving, which seems like a bit much to me. It also instructs to take it immediately after working out, but everything else I've read said to take the creatine 30-60 minutes before my workout (which makes more sense to me).

My case is kinda weird, though. I want to build more muscle, but I also want to lose belly fat. I'm too thin in some areas, but can't get rid of the last of the belly fat. I'm hoping building back some lean mass there will help eliminate the last of the fat and firm up my stomach. :pray:

Stryder
02-21-2006, 10:25 PM
All creatine does is allow for more water absorption in the muscle, which gives the POTENTIAL to work out longer and harder.