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Peck
02-11-2006, 03:17 AM
Probably going to be a quick one tonight guys.

I came home & watched the replay a little bit ago & I have to ask a question.

Did I hear Quinn Buckner right? Did he say that Jermaine was not handling the Pacers winning & new style very well emotionally? Alberts did a quick cover by saying that J.O. would work perfectly into this new system but by that time the cat was out of the bag.

Am I the only person who heard that? It was in the first quarter for those of you that still have it on tape. I've already deleted mine but you can go back & hear it for yourself.

What I took from that was that Jermaine was not mad or anything he was just hurt by the apperance that the team does better without him. At least that's what I hope he is thinking. That is human, that is understandable & that makes sense to me. I sure as heck don't want to think the guy is mad because they are winning without him.

I'm not going to dwell on this because I don't want all of the replies to just be about that. J.O. looked a lot more involved on the bench from what I could see & on TV he looked like he was supporting the team.

I just hope he tells Rick that he wants to be part of this.

Let's move on.

The bench was rotten to the core during this one. Not a single player came off of that bench & played worth a d@mn IMO.

They're entitled to a stinker just like any other player is, but God let's just hope they don't do this as a group again. One player being off is fine we can even tolerate two but all five????? That's hard to overcome.

But overcome it we did thanks to deadeye shooting from our backcourt & our starting three.

A.J. was 10-14 Peja was 9-16 & Jax was 8-10:-o from the floor & very few of these shots were dunks.

Now we are not going to shoot like that every night, in fact I doubt if we shoot that good many more games. But for this game it was all that was needed.

In fact if you look at almost every stat across the board the Warriors beat us.

They outrebounded us by 45-43 they had more fast break points than us & had more points in the paint. We did go to the line more often & we each turned the ball over the exact same amount of time.

Due to foul troubles we went with a small lineup on several occasions which did not work out very well for us, but in this case I understand why Rick had to do this.

Let's do the good the bad & the ugly for a change.

The good.

Anthony Johnson. He was the engine that made the car run. There is no better way to put this that I can think of. Whenever A.J. went to the bench we were in trouble. Whenever he was in the game he held the team together & he was the one thing you can not teach, practice or become. You either are or you are not & in this game he was. Clutch.

He still looks like Beetlejuice from Howard Stern so that might make him in the ugly catagory. But his game sure as heck wasn't ugly.

Peja. What can I say other than to admit over & over & over again to everybody. I was wrong.

I didn't want him on our team, I thought that from a talent standpoint this was a horrid trade & that while I would have taken a bag of chips for Nutball I thought Peja was worse than a bag of chips.

I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried. This guy is better at everything than I thought he would be. He is even a better shooter than I though & I always thought he was a good shooter. He is a superstar shooter. We have been blessed with some great pure shooters over the years here. Reggie, Eddie Johnson, Chris Mullin, Dale Davis (I kid, I kid) but Peja is better than all of them with maybe the exception of Reggie. Maybe. He hasn't hit the big time big game shots yet so let's see what he can do there.

Caveat: Chris Mullin was a player at the end of his career when he was here so in fact as a young player Mullin was a better shooter but he had lost his quick release when he was here especially in year 3. But he could still deadeye shoot, just not under pressure anymore.

Back to Peja. He is far more physical than I would have ever dreamed & his rebounding makes me drool. He had 8 boards in this game. Now Granger is going to out do him in the reboudning department eventually but that is no shame because I think evenatually Granger is going to outdo everybody in the rebounding departement on our team.

Stephen Jackson. In one 30 second time frame Jackson took was was a wonderfull, joyous, spectular game. Wadded it up & pitched it in the trash can. Then he came back & redeemed himself (but only to a point)

What am I talking about? Well, simple. He had played out of his mind good both on defense & offense. Then he got his 5th foul & Carlisle took him out of the game. First he waved Rick off, then after it was clear that Granger was going to come in he sighed & hung his head & stood there for a few seconds while Rick is waving for him to come out. He did go out but then stood there & yapped at Carlisle from his seat.

I'm putting Jax's game into the good catagory. His game on the floor was great, probably the best game he has ever played overall here as a Pacer. He was a willing passer for a change, he held his own on defense, he didn't overdribble but on two occasions & he attempted to help on the boards. So I was very very pleased with his on court production.

But this crap of yapping @ Rick everytime he comes off of the floor has got to stop. Obviously he has no respect for the coach because if he did he would not do this in front of his team, the fans & for God's sake the uppermanagement.

I think it's time for TPTB to bring Jax into the office & lay it on the line with him. He does this again, it's a fine. He does it again after that & he loses his starting job for a game. Again he loses his starters spot for three games & after that he gets suspended for conduct detrimental to the team.

Is this tough? Yes, yes it is. But by allowing him to do this crap it just shows other players that they can do it as well. Think A.J. leaving the floor slowly & getting that "T" I said that very night why shouldn't he be able to do it because Jax does this all of the time. What happens to Carlisle if Harrison or Pollard or Foster or Jones or pick any other Pacer starts doing this whenever. What happens when Jax refuses to come out of a game at all?

It's time for the upper guys to step in & back up the coach on this.

I hate to even do this because Jax played a heck of a game, but as we all know from the past three years. Just playing the game well isn't enough.

Jeff Foster. 5-8 from the freethrow line. I'm more happy that he got to the line 8 times than I was with him hitting 5 times. Well I'm happy he hit them as well;) . He shut Diogu out, period. Ike looked small & insignificant compared to Jeff & there was a reason for that. He was. Foster as the Power Forward thrills me to death. The combo of Foster & Pollard makes me even more happy. I don't know what to do about Austin when he comes back. Well in a game like last night I think it would have been very helpfull to have him in there because of foul trouble. But I really like the tone that Pollard & Foster set out there.

Scot Pollard. Hulk Hogan has nothing on him. He was legitimately p!ssed about blowing that play. Man I hate to see that. I mean nothing upsets me more than a guy caring about his job. Ok, that was sarcasm for those who could not detect it. Isn't it nice to see a guy be mad at himself for a change & not be mad at a ref? No honestly isn't that refreshing? In all honesty he was to hard on himself, even though he didn't grab all that many boards he sure as heck set the tone. He attacked the rim every chance he got & he was setting some bone crunching picks out there.

The bad.

Our bench.

I'm not even going to point them out individually. Our entire bench stunk up the joint & yes that includes Granger who for whatever reason just could not get it going.

Harrison was back in foul trouble, Jones couldn't hit the ocean from the deck of a ship & Saras was useless.

It's best to just pretend these guys didn't play in this game & just move on.

The ugly.


I cold live the rest of my life without seeing this motion from this guy.

http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/bavetta_041104.jpg



Overall, this was another great win. Now we have the world champs coming to town on Sunday so I say let's give it to them & get # 5.

BTW, I am not a believer yet. But I think I'm starting to lean that way.

Now is the time on Odd toughts when we dance. Join me.

:dancingba :dancers: :bdance: :dance3: :dorange: :apple: :cucumber: :mango: :pineapple :carrot:

Kegboy
02-11-2006, 04:08 AM
I don't remember Quinn saying that, but I do remember him constantly imploring the team to play "Eastern Conference basketball", in other words, halfcourt ball-control. I wouldn't be surprised if he sees this cutting offense as a gimmick, or feels that it won't work long term with a low-post scorer with poor passing skills.

Bball
02-11-2006, 04:32 AM
http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/bavetta_041104.jpg


Ed Grimley!!!

-Bball

Will Galen
02-11-2006, 04:54 AM
[QUOTE=Peck]

Did I hear Quinn Buckner right? Did he say that Jermaine was not handling the Pacers winning & new style very well emotionally? Albert's did a quick cover by saying that J.O. would work perfectly into this new system but by that time the cat was out of the bag.

I didn't hear it. It could have been said though.

I'm not going to dwell on this because I don't want all of the replies to just be about that. J.O. looked a lot more involved on the bench from what I could see & on TV he looked like he was supporting the team.

I think the Pacer players sometimes come on here to see whats said about them. If so he took it to heart.

I just hope he tells Rick that he wants to be part of this.

He said that last year. And they played that way while he was coming off the bench. But once he was back to starting it slowly faded away.

Peja. What can I say other than to admit over & over & over again to everybody. I was wrong.

I didn't want him on our team, I thought that from a talent standpoint this was a horrid trade & that while I would have taken a bag of chips for Nutball I thought Peja was worse than a bag of chips.

I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried. This guy is better at everything than I thought he would be. He is even a better shooter than I though & I always thought he was a good shooter. He is a superstar shooter. We have been blessed with some great pure shooters over the years here. Reggie, Eddie Johnson, Chris Mullin, Dale Davis (I kid, I kid) but Peja is better than all of them with maybe the exception of Reggie. Maybe. He hasn't hit the big time big game shots yet so let's see what he can do there.

I thought he would take Reggie's place and do better than the old Reggie except for the clutch shots. I'm thinking now, who could we have realistically got that would have been better for us? And just think, if we could have got him two years ago when Bird first wanted him, Reggie would have been on one wing and Peja on the other.


Jeff Foster. 5-8 from the freethrow line. I'm more happy that he got to the line 8 times than I was with him hitting 5 times.

Jeff's hitting .656 from the line while his career average is .616. I think he's been doing a lot better than earlier in the year. At one point I think he hit 20 some in a row. And whats up with all his yapping now? I don't recall him ever yapping as much as he has been doing lately.

Thanks Peck! Good post!

Shack80
02-11-2006, 06:23 AM
Peck, I hav ebeen a lurker on this site for a long time. Mostly becuase of your posts. Great job and thanks man.

Hicks
02-11-2006, 06:41 AM
Peja can do a lot of things, but 9/10 times, clutch shot-making isn't one of them, unfortnately. Doesn't mean I'm not thrilled to have him, however.

D-BONE
02-11-2006, 07:00 AM
I understand the frustration about Jack's reaction to coming out of the game and I, too, would love for any residue of that type of attitude or whatever to disappear. However, I think with SJ in that case it was just him being so into the game and playing so hard that he just wanted to be out there helping us win. And, with all due respect to Peja and AJ's great games, without Jack, we definitely don't win that game. He got us off to the big lead with great play in the 1st and got some important points to slow down GS's momentum late. Jack's game is all about passion and I think he's really having a positive affect on the team during this win streak. He's been sharing the ball much more and notably communicating with and supporting his teammates. IMO his defensive abilities have been consistently undervalued since he got here. To sum up, I think you have to accept some bad with the good for every player. Jack's performance while we were struggling deserved scrutiny and criticism and if he returns to that I'll be the first to say he's gotta shape up. But I think expecting absolute perfection from him or anyone is unfair. I would rate his play throughout the win streak as stellar.

Unclebuck
02-11-2006, 08:57 AM
Quinn often has trouble articulating exactly what he wants to say, so I wouldn't read too much into what you heard. I was at the game, so I have no idea what he said.

Peck, your point about Peja being a better shooter than you thought, brings a couple points to my mind that I want to make about him.

He is taller than he looks on TV, he is maybe a half inch shorter than Foster, they were standing next to each other last night and I had a good look at it to judge the heights, and he is basically the same height as Jeff.

That height enables him to get his shot off over about anyone. (one thing I learned from reading the Kings forum is that teams had more success defending Peja with smaller really quick guys who can get right up into Peja as opposed to the bigger guys who tried to just bother his shot. Peja's release is so high and it is so quick he is tough to defend.

Rick made a great point after the game. Peja can score 25 points in a game without really having the ball much. Rick didn't say this, but that is a lot like Reggie.

The interesting thing about peja's shot. Have you noticed most of the time when he misses, he misses really bad, it will slam off the rim, or be wide right or left, or even hit the side of the board. But when he makes it it sure looks sweet. He rarely hits the rim and.

Peja is better than I thought too.



Peck, I agree with you about Jax, he did almost ruin a great game. He and Peja sure play well together though, but then Reggie and Jax played pretty well together too.

I know I don't need to say this, but Jax and Artest together was a disaster, it created a tug of war of sorts, then you add in J.O and Tinsley, wow that was a disaster just from an on court chemistry situation.


Peck, I agree with you about Cro, I don't know they should do with Cro. I mentioned this yesterday Scot can play and start during this stretch of games because there are off days in between, but look at March, there are tons of games, and I don't think he'll hold up physically during March. So Cro will be needed. But that changes things. at center

sixthman
02-11-2006, 09:11 AM
I mentioned this yesterday Scot can play and start during this stretch of games because there are off days in between, but look at March, there are tons of games, and I don't think he'll hold up physically during March. So Cro will be needed. But that changes things. at center

Very good point. Maybe the same can be said for Jeff Foster who no longer seems able to take the pounding for long stretches either.

sixthman
02-11-2006, 09:24 AM
Did I hear Quinn Buckner right? Did he say that Jermaine was not handling the Pacers winning & new style very well emotionally? Alberts did a quick cover by saying that J.O. would work perfectly into this new system but by that time the cat was out of the bag.

Am I the only person who heard that? It was in the first quarter for those of you that still have it on tape. I've already deleted mine but you can go back & hear it for yourself.

"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." Simon and Garfunkel, I think.

You are way too hung up on your thesis that JO is a selfish goof who can't stand the Pacers winning without him. You correctly point out that Jack almost ruined his best game as a Pacer with stupid stuff - I feel the same way about this thread: Would have been a cogent report, but I could have done without your featuring yet another unsubstantiated attack on JO. I'm not the greatest fan of JO's game, but your needless nagging is making me one. Why not let it rest until he comes back and does whatever it is he is going to do on the court? ;)

piksi
02-11-2006, 10:38 AM
Peja can do a lot of things, but 9/10 times, clutch shot-making isn't one of them, unfortnately. Doesn't mean I'm not thrilled to have him, however.

Part of this is that there were always other people who took the shots.
Pedja has hit some and missed some more.
We gave a clean slate to Ron - untill he proves us wrong and it is going good so far.
If You do that with Pedja and there is no reall reason not to - You just might get surprised

Unclebuck
02-11-2006, 10:47 AM
Part of this is that there were always other people who took the shots.
Pedja has hit some and missed some more.
We gave a clean slate to Ron - untill he proves us wrong and it is going good so far.
If You do that with Pedja and there is no reall reason not to - You just might get surprised



I wonder how much that one shot he missed late in game 7 WCF against the Lakers hurt Peja's reputation. I think it has hurt it more than it should have for two reasons. One it was a key shot and he missed it so bad. But many fans forget he was injured most of that series.

One thing Peja will do if nothing else, he will draw a good defender and that good defender won't ever leave him open that alone is a benefit to his team.

piksi
02-11-2006, 11:43 AM
I wonder how much that one shot he missed late in game 7 WCF against the Lakers hurt Peja's reputation. I think it has hurt it more than it should have for two reasons. One it was a key shot and he missed it so bad. But many fans forget he was injured most of that series.

One thing Peja will do if nothing else, he will draw a good defender and that good defender won't ever leave him open that alone is a benefit to his team.

he was injured and just played because he couldn't watch anymore. It is funny but everyone keeps saying how he is soft and can't handle pain. If he sat out those series there wouldn't have been any blame but he wanted to help. It wasn't a key shot because Kings missed 16 FTs in that game. Webber, Vlade & co just plain and simple choked on the line but Pedja is expected to hit every three he takes rather than just make a free throw.

Pedja has hit big shots and he has missed big shots. If Your coach draws up the play and Pedja gats the ball - he will take the shot. He will either make it or not just like every other player.

Also - trust is the big issue. If You know that Your team trusts You - You tend to step up more than not

Pedja is a veteran player used to winning. If he is healthy - he is an all star.
If used properly - he can be extremely effective (You have seen some glimps of that). He is neither a ball hog nor a volume shooter.

One thing - he constantly needs is being pushed by coach and teammates. He is very coachable and unselfish especially considering his limited touches in the game.

One of not too many player in this league who will be guarded on the perimeter even if he is 0-10 at that moment. He draws the best defender and he is a zone buster just like Reggie was for You guys. He will never be a superstar mostly because his physical limitations but again if You use him properly and he stay healthy - You guys can be really, really good.

Sollozzo
02-11-2006, 11:50 AM
I think Peja gets a bad rap for game 7 against the Lakers.

I want to know this, when did Reggie Miller ever come up huge in a game 7? Basically all of his clutch moments came early on, or midway in the playoff series.

McKeyFan
02-11-2006, 12:20 PM
I've got it on Tivo. I'll check and see if Quinn actually said it.




:spy:

Peck
02-11-2006, 12:33 PM
"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest." Simon and Garfunkel, I think.

You are way too hung up on your thesis that JO is a selfish goof who can't stand the Pacers winning without him. You correctly point out that Jack almost ruined his best game as a Pacer with stupid stuff - I feel the same way about this thread: Would have been a cogent report, but I could have done without your featuring yet another unsubstantiated attack on JO. I'm not the greatest fan of JO's game, but your needless nagging is making me one. Why not let it rest until he comes back and does whatever it is he is going to do on the court? ;)


I'll make sure in the future to only post what I think you'll want to read.

Peck
02-11-2006, 12:33 PM
I've got it on Tivo. I'll check and see if Quinn actually said it.




:spy:


Well??????

bnd45
02-11-2006, 01:22 PM
Just want to jump in to defend Jack.

He waved Carlisle off at the end of the 1st when he was feeling it. He was making plays during the whole quarter and wanted to finish off the 1st 12 minutes.

After the 5th foul he was pissed at Bavetta because he got mugged at the top of the key and didn't get the call. He fouled Davis simply to argue and when he got to the bench he was complaining to anyone that would listen, as to not offend Bavetta directly.

One other thought, the best part of Peja's game is how smooth those 23 pts were. Nothing is really forced from the guy and I think this may be slowly rubbing off on Jack. What a trade. We basically got 2 new players.

owl
02-11-2006, 01:34 PM
If Peja continues to show this kind of game the rest of the year and
he helps team chemistry this much then I say pay the man.
Max if necessary.

In effect he takes the role of Reggie only at a much younger age. Peja is
29 and should have a good 5 years left in him.


owl

Peck
02-11-2006, 03:15 PM
Thats all a problem.

Being made is fine, but stupid and disrespecting is coach is not.


I always knew he was a gangster.:)

D-BONE
02-11-2006, 04:39 PM
Jack can irritate sometimes, but it's obvious that he's playing team ball, being a good teammate. High fiving, recognizing good passes leading to his scores, making good passes for scores, and generally supporting and encouraging his team. I still think some people are overly critical of him given that it's obvious that he's making the effort to play with a better attitude conducive to winning compared to when things were in complete disarray. Is he perfect? No. Is anybody else on this team? No.

McKeyFan
02-11-2006, 05:46 PM
Well??????

I don't have access to it until tomorrow. (Too complex to explain why.) Just view it as a government operation.

McKeyFan
02-11-2006, 05:49 PM
After the 5th foul he was pissed at Bavetta because he got mugged at the top of the key and didn't get the call. He fouled Davis simply to argue and when he got to the bench he was complaining to anyone that would listen, as to not offend Bavetta directly.

It does make a huge difference if he was complaining about Bavetta and not complaining about Carlisle.

KingsFan
02-11-2006, 07:03 PM
...
Did I hear Quinn Buckner right? Did he say that Jermaine was not handling the Pacers winning & new style very well emotionally? Alberts did a quick cover by saying that J.O. would work perfectly into this new system but by that time the cat was out of the bag.

Am I the only person who heard that? It was in the first quarter for those of you that still have it on tape. I've already deleted mine but you can go back & hear it for yourself.

What I took from that was that Jermaine was not mad or anything he was just hurt by the apperance that the team does better without him. At least that's what I hope he is thinking. That is human, that is understandable & that makes sense to me. I sure as heck don't want to think the guy is mad because they are winning without him.

I'm not going to dwell on this because I don't want all of the replies to just be about that. J.O. looked a lot more involved on the bench from what I could see & on TV he looked like he was supporting the team.

I just hope he tells Rick that he wants to be part of this...
Sorry if I rubbed salt into wound, couldnít resist. The problem might arise when he comes back. As a leader he can force the offense go thru him. That can clog the more up-tempo style the team has been playing recently, which happened in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Sacramento</st1:place></st1:City> when Webber returned back from his knee injury. He didnít want to be part of the offense we were running, he wanted to be the one. What can I say I still cheer for CWebb no matter where he is. More importantly, hope everyone stays happy or at least accepts their playing time.

Anthem
02-11-2006, 08:08 PM
Probably going to be a quick one tonight guys.

This was the only thing I disagreed with, because you followed it with:


I came home & watched the replay a little bit ago & I have to ask a question.

Did I hear Quinn Buckner right? Did he say that Jermaine was not handling the Pacers winning & new style very well emotionally? Alberts did a quick cover by saying that J.O. would work perfectly into this new system but by that time the cat was out of the bag.

Am I the only person who heard that? It was in the first quarter for those of you that still have it on tape. I've already deleted mine but you can go back & hear it for yourself.

What I took from that was that Jermaine was not mad or anything he was just hurt by the apperance that the team does better without him. At least that's what I hope he is thinking. That is human, that is understandable & that makes sense to me. I sure as heck don't want to think the guy is mad because they are winning without him.

I'm not going to dwell on this because I don't want all of the replies to just be about that. J.O. looked a lot more involved on the bench from what I could see & on TV he looked like he was supporting the team.

I just hope he tells Rick that he wants to be part of this.

Let's move on.

The bench was rotten to the core during this one. Not a single player came off of that bench & played worth a d@mn IMO.

They're entitled to a stinker just like any other player is, but God let's just hope they don't do this as a group again. One player being off is fine we can even tolerate two but all five????? That's hard to overcome.

But overcome it we did thanks to deadeye shooting from our backcourt & our starting three.

A.J. was 10-14 Peja was 9-16 & Jax was 8-10:-o from the floor & very few of these shots were dunks.

Now we are not going to shoot like that every night, in fact I doubt if we shoot that good many more games. But for this game it was all that was needed.

In fact if you look at almost every stat across the board the Warriors beat us.

They outrebounded us by 45-43 they had more fast break points than us & had more points in the paint. We did go to the line more often & we each turned the ball over the exact same amount of time.

Due to foul troubles we went with a small lineup on several occasions which did not work out very well for us, but in this case I understand why Rick had to do this.

Let's do the good the bad & the ugly for a change.

The good.

Anthony Johnson. He was the engine that made the car run. There is no better way to put this that I can think of. Whenever A.J. went to the bench we were in trouble. Whenever he was in the game he held the team together & he was the one thing you can not teach, practice or become. You either are or you are not & in this game he was. Clutch.

He still looks like Beetlejuice from Howard Stern so that might make him in the ugly catagory. But his game sure as heck wasn't ugly.

Peja. What can I say other than to admit over & over & over again to everybody. I was wrong.

I didn't want him on our team, I thought that from a talent standpoint this was a horrid trade & that while I would have taken a bag of chips for Nutball I thought Peja was worse than a bag of chips.

I couldn't have been more wrong if I tried. This guy is better at everything than I thought he would be. He is even a better shooter than I though & I always thought he was a good shooter. He is a superstar shooter. We have been blessed with some great pure shooters over the years here. Reggie, Eddie Johnson, Chris Mullin, Dale Davis (I kid, I kid) but Peja is better than all of them with maybe the exception of Reggie. Maybe. He hasn't hit the big time big game shots yet so let's see what he can do there.

Caveat: Chris Mullin was a player at the end of his career when he was here so in fact as a young player Mullin was a better shooter but he had lost his quick release when he was here especially in year 3. But he could still deadeye shoot, just not under pressure anymore.

Back to Peja. He is far more physical than I would have ever dreamed & his rebounding makes me drool. He had 8 boards in this game. Now Granger is going to out do him in the reboudning department eventually but that is no shame because I think evenatually Granger is going to outdo everybody in the rebounding departement on our team.

Stephen Jackson. In one 30 second time frame Jackson took was was a wonderfull, joyous, spectular game. Wadded it up & pitched it in the trash can. Then he came back & redeemed himself (but only to a point)

What am I talking about? Well, simple. He had played out of his mind good both on defense & offense. Then he got his 5th foul & Carlisle took him out of the game. First he waved Rick off, then after it was clear that Granger was going to come in he sighed & hung his head & stood there for a few seconds while Rick is waving for him to come out. He did go out but then stood there & yapped at Carlisle from his seat.

I'm putting Jax's game into the good catagory. His game on the floor was great, probably the best game he has ever played overall here as a Pacer. He was a willing passer for a change, he held his own on defense, he didn't overdribble but on two occasions & he attempted to help on the boards. So I was very very pleased with his on court production.

But this crap of yapping @ Rick everytime he comes off of the floor has got to stop. Obviously he has no respect for the coach because if he did he would not do this in front of his team, the fans & for God's sake the uppermanagement.

I think it's time for TPTB to bring Jax into the office & lay it on the line with him. He does this again, it's a fine. He does it again after that & he loses his starting job for a game. Again he loses his starters spot for three games & after that he gets suspended for conduct detrimental to the team.

Is this tough? Yes, yes it is. But by allowing him to do this crap it just shows other players that they can do it as well. Think A.J. leaving the floor slowly & getting that "T" I said that very night why shouldn't he be able to do it because Jax does this all of the time. What happens to Carlisle if Harrison or Pollard or Foster or Jones or pick any other Pacer starts doing this whenever. What happens when Jax refuses to come out of a game at all?

It's time for the upper guys to step in & back up the coach on this.

I hate to even do this because Jax played a heck of a game, but as we all know from the past three years. Just playing the game well isn't enough.

Jeff Foster. 5-8 from the freethrow line. I'm more happy that he got to the line 8 times than I was with him hitting 5 times. Well I'm happy he hit them as well;) . He shut Diogu out, period. Ike looked small & insignificant compared to Jeff & there was a reason for that. He was. Foster as the Power Forward thrills me to death. The combo of Foster & Pollard makes me even more happy. I don't know what to do about Austin when he comes back. Well in a game like last night I think it would have been very helpfull to have him in there because of foul trouble. But I really like the tone that Pollard & Foster set out there.

Scot Pollard. Hulk Hogan has nothing on him. He was legitimately p!ssed about blowing that play. Man I hate to see that. I mean nothing upsets me more than a guy caring about his job. Ok, that was sarcasm for those who could not detect it. Isn't it nice to see a guy be mad at himself for a change & not be mad at a ref? No honestly isn't that refreshing? In all honesty he was to hard on himself, even though he didn't grab all that many boards he sure as heck set the tone. He attacked the rim every chance he got & he was setting some bone crunching picks out there.

The bad.

Our bench.

I'm not even going to point them out individually. Our entire bench stunk up the joint & yes that includes Granger who for whatever reason just could not get it going.

Harrison was back in foul trouble, Jones couldn't hit the ocean from the deck of a ship & Saras was useless.

It's best to just pretend these guys didn't play in this game & just move on.

The ugly.


I cold live the rest of my life without seeing this motion from this guy.

http://www.nba.com/media/cavaliers/bavetta_041104.jpg



Overall, this was another great win. Now we have the world champs coming to town on Sunday so I say let's give it to them & get # 5.

BTW, I am not a believer yet. But I think I'm starting to lean that way.

Now is the time on Odd toughts when we dance. Join me.

:dancingba :dancers: :bdance: :dance3: :dorange: :apple: :cucumber: :mango: :pineapple :carrot:
Other than that, great post. :D

MagicRat
02-11-2006, 08:32 PM
Well??????

I'll take a look if you can remember approximately where in the quarter you hallucin----uh, heard it........

Peck
02-11-2006, 08:36 PM
I'll take a look if you can remember approximately where in the quarter you hallucin----uh, heard it........


It was early in the first half, I think even in the first quarter. It is in the beginning of the conversation about J.O. fitting into this new style of play.

In fact I'm certain that it was early in the first quarter.

Like I said in my first post, it's what I think I heard. Correct me if I'm wrong.

MagicRat
02-11-2006, 09:07 PM
Did I hear Quinn Buckner right? Did he say that Jermaine was not handling the Pacers winning & new style very well emotionally? Alberts did a quick cover by saying that J.O. would work perfectly into this new system but by that time the cat was out of the bag.

Am I the only person who heard that? It was in the first quarter for those of you that still have it on tape. I've already deleted mine but you can go back & hear it for yourself.

What I took from that was that Jermaine was not mad or anything he was just hurt by the apperance that the team does better without him. At least that's what I hope he is thinking. That is human, that is understandable & that makes sense to me. I sure as heck don't want to think the guy is mad because they are winning without him.

http://prometheus.able-towers.com/~magicrat/quinnandalonjo.mp3 (http://prometheus.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/quinnandalonjo.mp3)

Sounds like JO's just been reading too much Bball.........

I seem to remember similar type quotes from JO last year about being concerned about coming back and screwing up the team while it was playing well.

owl
02-11-2006, 09:14 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/images/smilies/dance3.gif

Joining in the dance!!!



owl

Pig Nash
02-11-2006, 10:12 PM
owl, i have one thing to say to you:

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/yarly-41271.jpg

Peck
02-11-2006, 10:52 PM
http://prometheus.able-towers.com/~magicrat/quinnandalonjo.mp3 (http://prometheus.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/quinnandalonjo.mp3)

Sounds like JO's just been reading too much Bball.........

I seem to remember similar type quotes from JO last year about being concerned about coming back and screwing up the team while it was playing well.


Thanks M.R.

I knew I wasn't crazy, I thought I heard Quinn say J.O. was having a hard time with this emotionally.

Like I said in my original post, it didn't sound like he was angry or anything about this. He seems to think he might be the problem.

I have no problem with this. To me this makes me think more of Jermaine. Not every star player would be willing to look at himself like that. Anybody think Kobe would volunteer to play a differant style if it meant him shooting a lot less & letting others be the star attraction? I doubt it myself although I don't know that for fact.

J.O. haters & lovers alike can take comfort in this statment IMO. Either way it seems that he is shining the light of truth on himself & not pointing it at others.

McKeyFan
02-12-2006, 12:30 AM
Thanks M.R.

I knew I wasn't crazy, I thought I heard Quinn say J.O. was having a hard time with this emotionally.

Okay, looks like I'm off the hook.

My girlfriend gets really tired of Quinn Buckner constantly opining on what players are thinking and what is in their heads. Nevertheless, he does have one ear to the ground in Pacerdom so it's an interesting comment to chew on.

indytoad
02-12-2006, 12:33 AM
But yes, I agree. It is good to see JO take that approach ;) At least he is saying the right things, now we just need him to come back and have a MVP like "half season"

Did you just quote and agree with yourself?

Selfquoter...that's even worse than a hater.

IndyToad
A special night

Anthem
02-12-2006, 12:43 AM
Did you just quote and agree with yourself?

Selfquoter...that's even worse than a hater.
Just imagine if he'd DISAGREED!

Peck
02-12-2006, 01:47 AM
Just imagine if he'd DISAGREED!


Hey I've been thinking about what you said about the deep bench.

After carefull consideration I'm pretty sure we agree.

Let me see if I am thinking about this right.

We want 5 really good starters or at least a unit of 5 that combines together to make a really good unit.

Then we want 3 players behind them that can either meld into that group or are individually very talented.

Then 2 other guys who are utility players who will only see maybe 10 min. a night tops but could fill in if needed in a larger role.

Then as to the rest we want players who are not nearly as good as any of the above & don't mind just being bench players but can fill in if needed.

If that is what you are saying then I have to say that is what I think as well.

I probably still want to go deeper in the regular season though than either you or Jay do.

Bball
02-12-2006, 03:46 AM
http://prometheus.able-towers.com/~magicrat/quinnandalonjo.mp3 (http://prometheus.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/quinnandalonjo.mp3)

Sounds like JO's just been reading too much Bball.........



Does JO agree with me?

-Bball

MagicRat
02-12-2006, 06:59 AM
Does JO agree with me?

-Bball

Nope. I think you've just given him a case of low self-esteem..........:sadbanana

;)

owl
02-12-2006, 07:03 AM
Thanks M.R.

I knew I wasn't crazy, I thought I heard Quinn say J.O. was having a hard time with this emotionally.

Like I said in my original post, it didn't sound like he was angry or anything about this. He seems to think he might be the problem.

I have no problem with this. To me this makes me think more of Jermaine. Not every star player would be willing to look at himself like that. Anybody think Kobe would volunteer to play a differant style if it meant him shooting a lot less & letting others be the star attraction? I doubt it myself although I don't know that for fact.

J.O. haters & lovers alike can take comfort in this statment IMO. Either way it seems that he is shining the light of truth on himself & not pointing it at others.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

If JO and the COACHES can take to heart less offense and more rebounds,
blocks and assists for JO a title is a possibility.


owl

Unclebuck
02-12-2006, 08:43 AM
I consider Quinn to be in the inner circle. He knows what Bird and DW are doing and thinking. He's around and knows what is going on. So when he says something I take note

Clark doesn't mainly because he's not around.

Kegboy
02-12-2006, 12:28 PM
There is a cause for concern on JO's part. The foundation of Motion is based on not having a dominant big man. Now sure, there are some Hi/Lo variations, but the Big still must pass effectively.

I hope Rick has Jermaine in the gym drilling motion sets into his head. When he comes back, provided no more trades occur, the best short-term move is to deemphasize his roll and continue to run the offense through Jack and Peja.

However, this summer, Rick's gotta rewrite the playbook again, cause high post cutting isn't going to get us anywhere. With Jamaal, we can run some Hawk sets for Jack and Peja, which I hope we'll see after the ASB. We'll still run some Princeton with AJ and Cabbage. But we need to find a base that will use JO effectively. We can run some Four Out with either Danny or Austin, but that may put too much passing pressure on Jermaine. Maybe some Hi/Lo teamed with Harrison. That might work.

Anyway, I digress. JO ran motion under Isiah. Now obviously, throw out the UCLA stuff. That only worked with Brad. But, as I've said before, the main thing is to clean out the isolation junk Rick's filled his head with the last 3 years. Regardless of if that was all because of Ron or not (I tend to think it was, since Ron broke Isiah's Quick all the damn time), we need to put it behind us for good.

Skaut_Ech
02-14-2006, 12:48 PM
Thread hijack!! I've been reading a Warriors message board some time now, and came across the blog entry that I had to share:


http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/


[/URL]Recap: Warriors 95, Pacers 107
By [URL="http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/user/Atma%20Brother%20ONE"]Atma Brother ONE (http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/2/11/193049/070#commenttop)
Posted on Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 03:18:25 AM EST


Whoa! What a strange game. I got burned big time with my predicton that the Warriors would easily blow out the Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley- less Pacers in our game preview. But honestly, how was I supposed to know that the Pacers were going to break out their two secret weapons, Nate Dogg and the Black Skeletor?


Boxscore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260210011)

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10702110358.jpg (http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10702110358.jpg)Peja: "YESSSS! We got Nate D-O-double G and the Black Skeletor!" (AP Photo)


Usually the Boom-Rich backcourt dominates games while dropping dimes, dunks, and swishes. However, tonight the Pacers' Nate Dogg-Skeletor backcourt put Baron and Jason in check.

http://blackcity.org/misc/nate-dogg_logo.jpg (http://blackcity.org/misc/nate-dogg_logo.jpg)DPG- Anthony Johnson's day job http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10502110349.jpg (http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10502110349.jpg)Anthony Johnson had the Warriors asking 23 Questions. (AP Photo)
http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/%7Ejmunro/skeletor.jpg (http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/%7Ejmunro/skeletor.jpg)At night Stephen Jackson has the power.
http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10602110357.jpg (http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10602110357.jpg)Stephen Jackson gives JRich trouble. (AP Photo)



This isn't supposed to happen. Baron has been struggling defensively for most of this season. JRich has stepped up his D this season, but for some reason Stephen Jackson gives him a lot of trouble. It's strange how Monty didn't try sticking Pietrus on Jackson. JRich has the athleticism and hustle to run through the 50 Reggie Miller screens the Pacers set for Peja, so it's not like Jason couldn't guard the Pacers' SF. Warrior centers Adonal Foyle and Andris Biedrins combined for 10 fouls in 45 minutes of play. That's well... just FOUL! Yo Mullin and company- a capable center would be nice. We'll even take Drew Gooden masquerading as a center! It's going to be even more Foul if that trade exception expires next Tuesday and the Warriors have nothing to show for it.
"Sharpshooter" Mike Dunleavy hit one of his eleven shots. You read that right. He took 11 shots and missed 10 of them including one horrendous 3pt air ball that was about 6 inches off the mark. Keep in mind that Dun's attempts are for the most part completely wide open. I know 5th graders who can hit those shots. I'm being completely serious here- maybe Mike needs to get his eyes checked. There's no way he has 20/20 vision. Come to think of it, there's no way I have 20/20 vision anymore after watching all his eyesores.
Still, Mike managed to live up to his Funleavy title (http://goldenstwarriors.blogspot.com/2005/10/recap-warriors-92-suns-97-funleavy.html) tonight...


http://www.sportsonline.com.au/images/Products/6358.jpg (http://www.sportsonline.com.au/images/Products/6358.jpg)
You've seen M.J.'s Wings Poster...


http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10402110221.jpg (http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/NAF10402110221.jpg)well M.D. tried to pose for his own Wings poster tonight. (AP Photo)


The Warriors are now 5 games under .500. Something, anything needs to change. A trade, a new coach, a new owner, something. This loss against a vastly inferior Pacers' roster is unacceptable. Let's hope the Warriors can rebound from this loss tomorrow against the red hot Cavs in Cleveland. They need Troy back soon or else it's going to be a very long night.
Warrior Wonder: Air France took off! Needing only 9 field goals, MP2 hit 23 points and managed to sprinkle in 5 boards, a steal, and a block. Nice shooting game from Mickael. It's great to have him starting. Earlier in the season the Warriors were playing 3 on 5 with their starters with Dunleavy and Foyle filling boxscores with zeroes despite tons of playing time. Now the Warriors are playing 4 on 5 with their starting unit. Dunleavy and Foyle are good bench players, but nothing more.
Track of the Day: E-40 featuring Keak Da Sneak- "Tell Me When to Go"
Props to the Yay's ambassador E-Feazy for represting the whole Yay Area tonight on MTV's Direct Effect. Super hyphy-hyphy-hyphy-hyphy!