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Will Galen
02-09-2006, 04:41 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/63247.htm

February 9, 2006 -- The Nets' Vince Carter and four Pistons are among the seven Eastern All-Star reserves to be officially announced today, The Post has learned.
But in a huge surprise, the Wizards' Gilbert Arenas, the fifth-leading scorer in the league, was left off the reserve squad in voting by Eastern coaches.

That could be remedied, however, when Commissioner David Stern personally selects the replacement for injured starter Jermaine O'Neal of the Pacers.

Carter joins Pistons Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton as reserves.

Tayshaun Prince is the only Piston starter not selected.

Also on the East's reserve squad are two surprises, from struggling teams Paul Pierce of the Celtics and Chris Bosh of the Raptors.

Besides O'Neal, fans voted as East starters: Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade of the Heat, LeBron James of the Cavs and Allen Iverson of the Sixers.



The West starters are Houston's Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant of the Lakers, Tim Duncan of the Spurs and Steve Nash of the Suns.

The West reserves were not available.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 08:03 AM
Hmmm, it made me sad somewhat.
Firstly, Prince is my favorite Piston. Besides Rasheed, but him I liked since the Blazers period. Well, but that's mostly sentiments, not arguments-based attitude.

Secondly, in a more argumentative fashion, isn't there anyone more worthy of selection than Paul Pierce? Like Redd, Howard, Ilgauskas?
Especially Redd and Big Z. Both of them are in good team with a good shot to win the title. Both of them might be in their best periods of career. Redd has improved in almost every statistical field and he is very important in close games.
Ilgauskas has largely identical statistics to those of the same point last year, except that he has much better FG % this year. Those should go up eventually after the All-star break as they do each year for Ilgauskas; he always has a statistically-better second half of the season due to the fact that he has to rest his feet in the off-season and starts the season rather slowly. Also, he can score 30 points when his team needs it and LeBron's shot isn't falling, and is the 2nd most important person of that team, currently above .600. Finally, he's a great FT shooter and is given the ball at the end of close games, when oponents are expected to charge Cavs. He has already made many such points this year.

D-BONE
02-09-2006, 08:11 AM
Arenas not on the team? That's a travesty. Swiss Express, the two candidates you mention are both deserving. I particularly agree about Z. You make good points about him and his value to that team. He's also a solid shot blocker and passer. He's just got a great all-around game. Since he' a true C, though, Shaq or Big Ben would have been displaced. What's Z's case in comparison to them?

Will Galen
02-09-2006, 08:16 AM
Secondly, in a more argumentative fashion, isn't there anyone more worthy of selection than Paul Pierce? Like Redd, Howard, Ilgauskas?
Especially Redd and Big Z.

Not only is Pierce better than all those guys, he's having a career year.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 08:26 AM
All 3 of them were there last year. All had enough of time to show their skills. Ilgauskas was played alongside LeBron last year, and that was more interesting to watch than any other duo in that game. Of course, that team this year also has Wade-Shaq duo and the 4 Pistons composition which might also be impressive.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 08:27 AM
Not only is Pierce better than all those guys, he's having a career year.

A Stephon Marbury-type career year, to be more specific..

Slick Pinkham
02-09-2006, 09:43 AM
Marbury has never once led his team in rebounds, points, assists, and regularly defended the primary scorer on the other team.

Redd's a very nice shooter. Z does take up space and make open shots in a world without opposing centers.

Pierce is more deserving and is a much more complete player.

Kstat
02-09-2006, 10:05 AM
Only player I feel bad for is Arenas, and I'm %90 sure Stern will name him as JO's replacement anyway.

You could make an argument for Howard, but he's only 20. Hard to feel for a kid who's got at least a dozen all-star appearances left in his career.

In any case, this was a great statement day for team basketball.

I'm sorry, but Billups and Hamilton have been screwed over too many times already. It's our turn now.

sixthman
02-09-2006, 10:19 AM
No argument from me on the four Pistons making the All-Star team. Billups used to be the most underrated player in the league, or maybe it was Rasheed Wallace. Not sure. Now it is Tayshaun Prince. Hate to give so much props to the Pistons, but right is right: Detroit's starting five deserves every bit of recognition it is getting. Now, may the inevitable deterioration of the team begin.

Fool
02-09-2006, 10:39 AM
Marbury has never once led his team in rebounds, points, assists, and regularly defended the primary scorer on the other team.

Redd's a very nice shooter. Z does take up space and make open shots in a world without opposing centers.

Pierce is more deserving and is a much more complete player.

Indeed, the Marbury/Peirce comparison is a very poor one. Pierce's problem has always been that he didn't take over enough and that he needed a solid #2 for his confidence as much as his game. Marbury would rather there not be two other guys on his team (that way he gets more time with the ball). The Celtics aren't losing because of Pierce, they are losing because of Rivers.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 11:08 AM
Marbury has never once led his team in rebounds, points, assists, and regularly defended the primary scorer on the other team.

Redd's a very nice shooter. Z does take up space and make open shots in a world without opposing centers.

Pierce is more deserving and is a much more complete player.

Ok, so the argument for Pierce is: 1. he's a statistically-better Marbury. 2. a statistically-better Marbury deserves recognition more than guys who (a) win much more games and make clutch plays but are shooters
(by the way, you'd have to explain me why Redd is one-dimensional for a SG while he has 4-5 rebounds and 3 APG), (b) win much more games and make clutch plays but are centers.

I won't argue with this anymore as our attitudes seem to rely on differing believes, not simply on different arguments. I simply prefer winners over a bit better statistical players. I would even put Prince over Pierce, even though statistical difference is huge.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 11:20 AM
Indeed, the Marbury/Peirce comparison is a very poor one. Pierce's problem has always been that he didn't take over enough and that he needed a solid #2 for his confidence as much as his game. Marbury would rather there not be two other guys on his team (that way he gets more time with the ball). The Celtics aren't losing because of Pierce, they are losing because of Rivers.

They are loosing. Badly. While he's good statistically. Those are only pieces of information I provide with the Marbury comparison. I won't speculate on who of them needs ball more; to my opinion, popular views of particular loosing players being more selfish than other loosing players very much depend on the period of time those players have been losing.

The comparison might have been unjust last year, when he did have that #2 in Walker. But that's no excuse to put someone over players who play better this year.

Slick Pinkham
02-09-2006, 11:26 AM
I must have missed all those times Redd has carried the Bucks into the playoffs, like Pierce has. The Celtics are rebuilding this year and playing young guys. And it's not like they are at extreme opposite ends in terms of team success. 6 1/2 games separate Milwaukee and Boston.

If you have the ball in a tie game and you can get the ball to Redd or Pierce, who would you prefer to have it? I'd only prefer Redd if I knew it was going to be a wide open jumper. Otherwise PP. The Bucks prefer to go to Mo Williams! Redd's a terrific player and getting better. He's in the discussion of being almost as good as Pierce now. I'd like to see Redd on the Olympic team.

Actually I'd have no problem with picking Prince over Pierce, if you truly want to reward contributions to team success.

Roy Munson
02-09-2006, 11:26 AM
Not only is Pierce better than all those guys, he's having a career year.

Boston is 18-31. If that's a career year, then that's a pretty sad career.

The most important stat -- ultimately the only one that should matter -- is wins and losses. That is the reason that four Pistons were name as reserves. The object of the game is to WIN, not to put up individual stats.

I don't think ANY player from a team with a losing record should be eligible to play in the all-star game.

Slick Pinkham
02-09-2006, 11:31 AM
I don't think ANY player from a team with a losing record should be eligible to play in the all-star game.

So 3 games ago when the Pacers had a losing record and JO was tabbed a starter, he should have been ruled ineligible?

:crazy:

Roy Munson
02-09-2006, 11:36 AM
So 3 games ago when the Pacers had a losing record and JO was tabbed a starter, he should have been ruled ineligible?

:crazy:

Yes.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 11:40 AM
The Bucks prefer to go to Mo Williams!

Can't argue with that too fierlessly as I have missed way too many of their games this season. In few I saw, however, Redd was very important during last minutes.

PS: definition of "clutch player" as a player "whom you get a ball to during the last play" is not one I could agree with. The ball should move, it shouldn't just be given for one player till he's open and can make that "wide open jumper" or a similar shot.

PacersandIU
02-09-2006, 11:41 AM
Why does every freakin' person love Rashweed? He's a punk (although I'd say the same about Ben)... I'm just amazed how everybody loves the guy.

I'm officially NOT going to watch the game this year...unless Stern picks a Pacer, I'm not interested in watching the Pistons/Lebron vs. the Western Allstars...I'm sorry, I just don't think I could stomach it. Tayshaun is the only fun player on the Pistons to watch and (as I mentioned above) Rasheed and Ben just make me sick. I think my deep-rooted hate for Rasheed comes from the fact the after the "guaran-sheed" victory in Game 2 he yelled out, "I told you! You SOBs" (he actually said it...)

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 11:42 AM
So 3 games ago when the Pacers had a losing record and JO was tabbed a starter, he should have been ruled ineligible?

:crazy:

Well, maybe he should have? As well as T-Mac, Yao.

Pacers' situation isn't comparable to Boston's, however.

Roy Munson
02-09-2006, 11:50 AM
Why does every freakin' person love Rashweed? He's a punk (although I'd say the same about Ben)... I'm just amazed how everybody loves the guy.



I guess you didn't ask MY opinion, because I hate ***-Weed. No other NBA player sickens me more.

sweabs
02-09-2006, 11:56 AM
Congratulations to Bosh. He has really worked hard on his game over the last year specifically, and he deserves this honour.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 12:14 PM
Congratulations to Bosh. He has really worked hard on his game over the last year specifically, and he deserves this honour.

Yes, that's one exception to the rule "miserable record - no All-Stars" I'd agree with. They did have a tough start and they will have some really bad memories from some games, but they are getting better, they started winning nearly every second game during recent monthes, and Bosh was instrumental in that. They are young, but they do have some mental strength. They are not going to "give up", as Larry Brown said in respect of his own team.

Fool
02-09-2006, 12:28 PM
They are loosing. Badly. While he's good statistically. Those are only pieces of information I provide with the Marbury comparison. I won't speculate on who of them needs ball more; to my opinion, popular views of particular loosing players being more selfish than other loosing players very much depend on the period of time those players have been losing.

Too bad you are responding to the post of one person's oppinion of Peirce which comes from watching him play (not from parroting the general masses). But thanks for dismissing me as mere rabble.



The comparison might have been unjust last year, when he did have that #2 in Walker. But that's no excuse to put someone over players who play better this year.

The comparions isn't "unjust" its simply bad. And none of the players on your list is playing "better" (a term we are all using in a highly subjective manner, even when going by stats) then Peirce.

Its fine with me if you want to rewrite the rules to say that only teams with winning records deserve "all-star" players. But a team being bad doesn't mean that a player is bad.

SwissExpress
02-09-2006, 12:38 PM
Too bad you are responding to the post of one person's oppinion of Peirce which comes from watching him play (not from parroting the general masses). But thanks for dismissing me as mere rabble.



The comparions isn't "unjust" its simply bad. And none of the players on your list is playing "better" (a term we are all using in a highly subjective manner, even when going by stats) then Peirce.

Its fine with me if you want to rewrite the rules to say that only teams with winning records deserve "all-star" players. But a team being bad doesn't mean that a player is bad.

Hmmm, I think everything already said in this thread form a sufficient response to what you say, and there's no need to repeat it all. I just want to say that I didn't want to be offensive in respect of you personally, to call you "rabble" or somehow else. If you or anyone else got that impression - I am sorry.

You must understand, however, that I can't somehow foresee when you are simply using some popular statements because they are popular and when you have personal experience of watching games behind it. I will always doubt popular statements unless they are backed up with arguments/experience at the very moment they are stated.

Fireball Kid
02-09-2006, 02:23 PM
Why does every freakin' person love Rashweed? He's a punk (although I'd say the same about Ben)... I'm just amazed how everybody loves the guy.

I'm officially NOT going to watch the game this year...unless Stern picks a Pacer, I'm not interested in watching the Pistons/Lebron vs. the Western Allstars...I'm sorry, I just don't think I could stomach it. Tayshaun is the only fun player on the Pistons to watch and (as I mentioned above) Rasheed and Ben just make me sick. I think my deep-rooted hate for Rasheed comes from the fact the after the "guaran-sheed" victory in Game 2 he yelled out, "I told you! You SOBs" (he actually said it...)


:wah:

Will Galen
02-09-2006, 03:10 PM
I'll only watch the exhibition if I can't find anything I like better on tv, and it doesn't matter if a Pacer is playing or not.

(The games used to be competitive. Now all it is is an exhibition.)

Roy Munson
02-09-2006, 03:41 PM
I'll only watch the exhibition if I can't find anything I like better on tv, and it doesn't matter if a Pacer is playing or not.

(The games used to be competitive. Now all it is is an exhibition.)

The NBA should just take about 3 million dollars (not very much by NBA standards), and declare that the winning team gets to split it up (approx 15 ways). for 200k extra spending cash in their pocket, they would care.
The game would be competitive.

I realize some of these guys get 10,15 even 20 million per year, but still getting 200k extra at one time would be significant.

Most NBA players are on some kind of allowance. Say they get $100,000 per week: They pay taxes (35k), pay their agent (5k), pay their financial advisor (15k) who will invest most of that, give their wife some spending cash (5k or more), put some in the family checking account (10k), pay some child support (10k), provide help to cousins, aunts, uncles, mom, dad, grandma and grandpa (20k); suddenly they have nothing left.

Come to think of it, it's no wonder Latrell sprewell had such a tough time feeding his family.

So I think an extra 200k would make most NBA guys VERY happy.

CompACE
02-09-2006, 04:00 PM
I think it would be really cool to see all four pistons on the floor plus someone like shaq on the floor with them - but that might not work - i don't think shaq would be able to keep up with the up tempo offense they have.

Pacersfan46
02-09-2006, 05:09 PM
I think it would be really cool to see all four pistons on the floor plus someone like shaq on the floor with them - but that might not work - i don't think shaq would be able to keep up with the up tempo offense they have.

The entire All-Star game is up tempo, so what? You just never play Shaq?

lol

CompACE
02-09-2006, 05:43 PM
The entire All-Star game is up tempo, so what? You just never play Shaq?

lol

Honestly when was the last time you saw Shaq doing something remotely awesome (involving athletic ability) recently in an NBA All Star game. Probably the only thing i could see him do that would be the greatest thing ever would be to put earl boykins jersey shorts on. :)

GO!!!!!
02-09-2006, 06:01 PM
I'm sure the Players get paid to be there, not sure how much, but it'd be enough for any of us to live comfortable for a year


I'm over the whole Piston debate, when will some one get some facts from precedents instead of just blowing hot air around...

Dallas and SA are only 2 game behind the Pistons, should they have 3-4 each in the All Star Game ?....

C'mon.. The run was nice but the bubble has burst...

How many of the 95-96 Bulls team made the East All Star Team...

By my count it was two..

http://www.nba.com/history/allstar/boxscore_1996.html

Kstat
02-09-2006, 06:22 PM
I'm sure the Players get paid to be there, not sure how much, but it'd be enough for any of us to live comfortable for a year


I'm over the whole Piston debate, when will some one get some facts from precedents instead of just blowing hot air around...

Dallas and SA are only 2 game behind the Pistons, should they have 3-4 each in the All Star Game ?....

C'mon.. The run was nice but the bubble has burst...

How many of the 95-96 Bulls team made the East All Star Team...

By my count it was two..

http://www.nba.com/history/allstar/boxscore_1996.html

1. At the time of the vote, Dallas and SA were both 4 behind, and both of them have gone on incredible streaks to get within 2 games.

2. The 96 Bulls had the best SG of all time and a top-5 SF. There was no need to include more than 2 because it was clear they were a 2-man team.

Rodman would have gone in 96, but he was left home due to image.

as for Dallas and SA, Dallas doesn't have a solid foursome like Detroit. SA WOULD have three all-stars, but Manu has missed too many games.

Kstat
02-09-2006, 08:13 PM
It should be noted that Reggie Miller and Kenny Smith were both lobbying for Tayshawn Prince as Jermaine O'Neal's replacement in the all-star game.

FreshPrince22
02-09-2006, 08:27 PM
I'm sure the Players get paid to be there, not sure how much, but it'd be enough for any of us to live comfortable for a year


I'm over the whole Piston debate, when will some one get some facts from precedents instead of just blowing hot air around...

Dallas and SA are only 2 game behind the Pistons, should they have 3-4 each in the All Star Game ?....

C'mon.. The run was nice but the bubble has burst...

How many of the 95-96 Bulls team made the East All Star Team...

By my count it was two..

http://www.nba.com/history/allstar/boxscore_1996.html

The Bulls were pretty much a 2-man team. Don't get me wrong, they had other good players, but MJ and Pippen were the Bulls. The Spurs are a 3 man team. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. If Ginobili were healthy this year he'd be an all-star as well. The Mavs have 1 Great player and a ton of other good players. The Pistons are the only team that really has 5 very good players that contribute an equal amount.

Sollozzo
02-09-2006, 08:49 PM
Honestly when was the last time you saw Shaq doing something remotely awesome (involving athletic ability) recently in an NBA All Star game. Probably the only thing i could see him do that would be the greatest thing ever would be to put earl boykins jersey shorts on. :)


I'm not sure what you mean by "remotely awesome", but Shaquille O'Neal plays solid in all star games. He won the All Star MVP the LA 2004 game.

PacersandIU
02-10-2006, 06:23 PM
I guess you didn't ask MY opinion, because I hate ***-Weed. No other NBA player sickens me more.

Sorry, it seems I'm just a member of the minority...:buddies:

I was at the pistons/pacers game and it seemed like when 'weed would come in every single person started cheering! I just don't see why he's so "loved"...

BTW Fireball Kid, I'm not whining, I just hate the guy and have reasons...at least I'm not a band-wagon fan that worships the pistons because they won a championship, not saying you are, but they're out there...:rolleyes:

Kstat
02-10-2006, 07:03 PM
BTW Fireball Kid, I'm not whining, I just hate the guy and have reasons...at least I'm not a band-wagon fan that worships the pistons because they won a championship, not saying you are, but they're out there...:rolleyes:

Um, he isn't a Pistons fan....

and what does that have to do with anything?

PacersandIU
02-10-2006, 07:17 PM
Um, he isn't a Pistons fan....

and what does that have to do with anything?


Sorry, I got off topic because someone said that 'sheed was their favorite player... I put the "not that you are" part in there because I didn't know if he was or not. Sorry for the confusion...