PDA

View Full Version : My apology



Jon Theodore
02-06-2006, 10:39 AM
Even though I was most definitely provoked, my comments were still uncalled for. I'm not even sure where I got the racist thing, i'm pretty sure I was looking for a different word and just posted that. Most of what I posted that night wasn't well thought out or reviewed, by any means.

I've felt like for a long time no one cared to hear what I had to say because it didn't coincide with their own beliefs, but now I am aware it has more to do with the manner in which I present my topics most of the time.

I will never like Jermaine, never really have never will. But i've probably posted enough hate on Jermaine threads, so I don't think that will be necessary anymore.

But I do still think everyone here lets him off the hook a little too easily. I mean his demeanor while we were beatin the Pistons, especially near the end of the game....was just flat out unacceptable to me. He is supposed to be a leader, but his pouting seemed more obvious to me, than the numerous times Tinsley has been called out for it.

Anyhow, not to open that can of worms, but that is why I posted that thread about Jermaine. What it turned into....well I would of never posted it had I known.

Anyhow, my racists comments were most definetely unjust and I can see how that warranted a ban. I look back at that thread and laugh at how fast I become totally irrational and posting stuff about my GPA.

I really have no one to blame but myself, in regards to most peoples perception of me. Regardless, I've been coming to these forums everyday for close to 2 years now because it is a great place to talk basketball.

My opinions on this board and in real life are generally different. Sometimes, people don't react very well to that....and in turn I do the same thing. I promise from here on out not to be so hard on the Pacers, but you people have to understand.....i live and die with the Pacers. When they lose...I AM CRUSHED. So they've been losing a lot lately and I'm not used to it, it is an adjustment for all of us and I am not handling it well.

I was going to make this a lot longer, but I think i've at least gotten my point across. My racist accusations had absolutely no foundation and I apologize. Understand I don't like Jermaine and I hope you can all just agree to disagree with me about that.

Harmonica
02-06-2006, 10:51 AM
But I do still think everyone here lets him off the hook a little too easily.
That's simply not true. I've seen quite a bit of criticism of him here. It's how you present it. I thought your comments came a little too soon after such a nice win, and they were pretty harsh and provocative. It was like you were purposely trying to bring people down. Had you made that post the next day in a more level-headed and even manner, they would have most likely generated an interesting discussion.



I mean his demeanor while we were beatin the Pistons, especially near the end of the game....was just flat out unacceptable to me. He is supposed to be a leader, but he seemed to be pouting more than I'd ever seen Tinsley do.
Could it be that's what you wanted to see? I didn't see him pouting. I just saw a lack of emotion toward the end. Didn't bother me too much.

Will Galen
02-06-2006, 10:53 AM
Accepted! I will look forward to your posts now.

By the way I took you off ignore to read this post.

And I tried to tell you when you first started posting that it was how you said things and not what you said.

Hicks
02-06-2006, 11:00 AM
Great post. :thumbsup:

Diamond Dave
02-06-2006, 11:57 AM
Well played sir, well played. :thumbsup:

Civility is the answer. Except for when Harmonica starts talking about Brad Miller, then he deserves all our respective wraths. ;)

Stryder
02-06-2006, 12:01 PM
Good post.

fifo
02-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Accepted! I will look forward to your posts now.

Me too.

Mr. Pink
02-06-2006, 01:41 PM
During one point of the game, when DH got swatted by Sheed' two times in a row, and Rick took Harrison out...JO made David sit by him, and I saw JO tell David what he did wrong for like 2 or 3 minutes. I thought that was pretty good leadership.

Moses
02-06-2006, 01:49 PM
During one point of the game, when DH got swatted by Sheed' two times in a row, and Rick took Harrison out...JO made David sit by him, and I saw JO tell David what he did wrong for like 2 or 3 minutes. I thought that was pretty good leadership.
Agreed. JO has been working with Harrison and it is starting to show. Another thing, Wouldn't you be a little upset and feel a bit guilty if you couldn't help your team out in a win like this? I'm sure he felt bad that he was injured and wasn't out there contributing like the rest of the guys. To say that he was upset because we won is ludacris. Theres nothing wrong with keeping a serious demeanor even during the celebration. People have different ways of celebrating things..IE when your at church and people are praising and you have people who don't sing. It doesn't mean they don't care, they just praise different then you.

Anthem
02-06-2006, 02:01 PM
Thanks, Jon. I appreciate it.

Did anybody tape the game? I'd be interested in seeing some video of JO's demeanor.

Jon Theodore
02-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Well, there were two seperate instances. The first one, at some point in time during the game Foster was clearly talking to Jermaine about something and Jermaine was looking away from Foster and not even acknowleding him.

Secondly, at the end of the game Pollard and Harrison were doing a goofy little dance while Jermaine just kind of looked disinterested.

But I am willing to give Jermaine the benefit of the doubt and say he was just upset that he wasn't out there. I guess my pre-disposition towards him would lead me to believe that he was upset that we won without him in, meaning that people might have to CONSIDER the possibility we might be better without him.

I guess with what Jermaine said at the beginning of the season about a title, he probably has a lot to be thinking about. It's just unfortunate how this injury/the Artest situation probably gives him a "free pass" on not following through with those expectations.

Regardless, I would of LIKED to see him a little more enthusiastic. Either way it was an absolutely wonderful win and if anything comes out of it, I hope that Carlisle figures out how to incorporate Jermaine into our new offensive system.

Moses
02-06-2006, 02:22 PM
Well, there were two seperate instances. The first one, at some point in time during the game Foster was clearly talking to Jermaine about something and Jermaine was looking away from Foster and not even acknowleding him.

Secondly, at the end of the game Pollard and Harrison were doing a goofy little dance while Jermaine just kind of looked disinterested.
Neither of these really indicate problems to me. Unless I was down there by the sideline and heard what Foster said, I doubt I would take this seriously at all.

As for the Pollard and Harrison dance, I'm not really sure what you expected. Did you want JO to get up and start doing the YMCA?

I'm not trying to spark another argument, merely just trying to let you know what I got from it. You could be right about JO and that he wants to be the star but I don't see any conclusive proof that would let me know he is disinterested in the team. JO, through the media, sounds mature right now and I have no doubts in his passion for this franchise. He said himself something along the lines of that if he wasn't getting it done and this team wasn't winning championships then he needed to be moved because he isn't good enough. We'll see how JO adapts when he comes back from the injury and only then can we truely assess whether or not he needs to be moved.


Regardless, I would of LIKED to see him a little more enthusiastic. Either way it was an absolutely wonderful win and if anything comes out of it, I hope that Carlisle figures out how to incorporate Jermaine into our new offensive system.
I do agree here. I would have enjoyed seeing JO clapping and smiling for his team-mates but it doesn't bother me that he wasn't. Hopefully Carlisle can incorporate JO into the offense how it is because we would be such a good team if we had a low post player like JO. He has the best post moves in the NBA in my opinion. If we go back to the one man offense, JO, then he needs to be moved.

Peck
02-06-2006, 02:24 PM
I am not a J.O. hater.

However I am not a J.O. lover either. The time has come to talk about him in an honest open manner.

There is nothing wrong with dissenting opinions. Since I tend to be sympathetic to your causes I have never found you to be out of line. Over the top? Sure. But not out of line.

That is until you went off on the forum as a whole when in reality it was only one person who attacked you personally.

But even then I felt as though you were provoked, that's not a justification but it certainly is a mitigating circumstance IMO.

He's apologized, which he didn't have to do. You've now apologized, which you didn't have to do.

You both are better people for it & the forum is a stronger place because of it.

That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.

Jon Theodore
02-06-2006, 02:28 PM
Well put Peck.

And in regards to Moses...you think JO has better low post moves than Tim Duncan? I won't pretend like i've watched a bunch of Spurs games, so I am honestly asking that.

Moses
02-06-2006, 02:32 PM
Well put Peck.

And in regards to Moses...you think JO has better low post moves than Tim Duncan? I won't pretend like i've watched a bunch of Spurs games, so I am honestly asking that.
I do. In terms of low post moves only though. Tim Duncan is a more complete player then JO as he can pass and is a better rebounder then JO. I guess what I really meant was that JO has the sweetest looking low post moves in the NBA because Shaq is probably the best low post player..or was before he began his decline this year. That trade for the Heat isn't looking to great now.

Jon Theodore
02-06-2006, 02:35 PM
Yeah I really wish JO could focus on passing. That is why I like when Pollard is in the starting line-up because he makes good passes, which just opens up the entire offense.

Jermaniac
02-06-2006, 02:36 PM
Jermaine O'Neal's fault

Knucklehead Warrior
02-06-2006, 02:37 PM
Thanks Jon. Welcome back. :)

Shade
02-06-2006, 02:38 PM
Props to both you and able for stepping up, JT. :thumbsup:

Arcadian
02-06-2006, 03:33 PM
Good post, Jon.

Ultimate Frisbee
02-06-2006, 04:42 PM
:applaud:

I am also not a fan of JO and have never been... I realize his worth though (through many of such conversations) and would not support a trade without proper compensation (which is not something most teams are just handing out)

I think we should look long and hard at KG and the T-wolves, because this could be a once in a career opportunity to trade JO...

317Kim
02-06-2006, 05:52 PM
All is well :)

Pig Nash
02-06-2006, 06:52 PM
:buddies: Hoorah!

Kaufman
02-06-2006, 09:45 PM
JT, welcome back.

I just realized you and Tinsley have the same initials.

One thing I wanted to say - and I don't know completely what went on with JO and this huge raa-raa yesterday and the day before -

About JO's disinterest. I get to interact with lots of people every day. And it became clear to me in the last few years that sometimes people don't react the way you want them to or expect them to. And my answer to that is often times, these people aren't only your patients, but they are human beings too, just like you and me. And they have real life problems as well. Financial, social, marital, and otherwise. And who knows what was going on with JO that day, but I tend to cut him slack for whatever it was. Who knows, he's got a young wife with baby on board, who knows what kinds of things that family is going through. I just wanted to say that so maybe its something to think about. Take care and welcome back.

pizza guy
02-06-2006, 10:03 PM
Thank you Jon. I usually enjoy your posts as they provide a different opinion often times, and that's what this message board is all about, to cuss and discuss the Pacers. It is a respectable thing you've just done, and I look forward to reading your posts again.

As for JO, I do remember him sort of looking disinterested while Jeff was complaining to him about the foul that sent him to the bench (and Jeff had good reason to complain, IIRC). It seemed strange, but, I passed it off as nothing because I felt Jeff was just venting and probably didn't care if anyone was listening. I missed the dance at the end of the game, but, I don't blame him for not joining in on that, you know, messed up leg and all. All I know is that I can't wait for him to be back on the court, hopefully playing in this ball-movement offense with Peja and DG and Hulk and Sarunas.

Will Galen
02-06-2006, 10:14 PM
To say that he was upset because we won is ludacris. Theres nothing wrong with keeping a serious demeanor even during the celebration.

I didn't see it, but if JO had a serious demeanor on his face while everyone else was celebrating, it wasn't because we won.

Being mad because your team won isn't a typical human reaction. You should never jump to conclusions on atypical behavior unless you know a person well. Hence, since I have never even seen JO in person, let alone know him, I would never believe JO was mad/disappointed because we won.

A more likely scenario is JO had told his team mates not to celebrate when they won, thus sending a message to Detroit that the Pacers expected to win. If they did it anyway of course JO wouldn't like it.

Kaufman
02-06-2006, 10:15 PM
I love your medical insight Kauf, but that is a EXCELLENT point.

One thing that I learn from my line of work, something that you would think is common knowledge, but is not, is what you said.

Every one, athletes, political people, all of us have issues, and even thoght we try to keep it out of our work, thats a very hard thing to do

We tend to hold athletes and others such as politicians to superhuman standards, and it just isn't possible to be superman, not even Christopher Reeve could meet those expectations.

Bball
02-06-2006, 10:27 PM
It's hard to make observations when you have to rely on a camera and the director for your peek at the bench.

It's hard to get context for the images. It's not impossible but it's not the same as being there where you can actually focus on something and (hopefully) get a bigger picture view.

At any rate....

WB, JT! :)
I'm glad everything is worked out.

-Bball

Will Galen
02-06-2006, 10:36 PM
Well, there were two separate instances. The first one, at some point in time during the game Foster was clearly talking to Jermaine about something and Jermaine was looking away from Foster and not even acknowledging him.

Secondly, at the end of the game Pollard and Harrison were doing a goofy little dance while Jermaine just kind of looked disinterested.



On second thought, I saw these instants and I didn't come to the conclusion you did. Either time.

On the first, Foster had just been called for a foul and he wouldn't shut up. I remember this well because I was surprised. I put it down to Foster being 'UP' for Detroit. In fact one time during the game Foster and AJ were auguring. (I mentioned it in the game thread.) So Foster was really being Feisty.

When Pollard and Harrison were doing their airplane impersonations, their dance as you called it, the game wasn't over yet, and JO wasn't even looking at them. He was looking out at the court as were other teammates.

There were also times during the game that the camera caught him smiling so I think you are completely off base here. So on second thought I think you're right when you said your pre-disposition towards him lead you to believe what you did.

RWB
02-07-2006, 08:25 AM
I didn't see it, but if JO had a serious demeanor on his face while everyone else was celebrating, it wasn't because we won.

A more likely scenario is JO had told his team mates not to celebrate when they won, thus sending a message to Detroit that the Pacers expected to win.

Sounds like a team leader taking on the same demeanor as their coach.

brichard
02-07-2006, 10:33 PM
Welcome back JT. I'm always puzzled that there are people who think they have minority opinions and that nobody feels the way they do. If you ever want to join the dark :death: side, just wait for Bball and Peck to join in. :)

Seriously, there may be some views that aren't as popular as others, but in the history of PD I've rarely seen somebody stand alone. There are plenty of people who love and hate every player on the Pacers roster. And those opinions are subject to change as well.

Nobody should ever apologize for having a unique or unpopular opinion. But, if you go strong with your beliefs, don't be to sensitive if someone challenges you in equal fashion. I think most threads are fairly well represented from both sides.

SoupIsGood
02-08-2006, 12:39 AM
Welcome back JT. I'm always puzzled that there are people who think they have minority opinions and that nobody feels the way they do. If you ever want to join the dark :death: side, just wait for Bball and Peck to join in. :)

Seriously, there may be some views that aren't as popular as others, but in the history of PD I've rarely seen somebody stand alone. There are plenty of people who love and hate every player on the Pacers roster. And those opinions are subject to change as well.

Nobody should ever apologize for having a unique or unpopular opinion. But, if you go strong with your beliefs, don't be to sensitive if someone challenges you in equal fashion. I think most threads are fairly well represented from both sides.


*coughkegboycoughsarunascough*



:-p


Edit - Nevermind, Grace was right there with him! Hmm, I will find an issue that somebody has stood alone on before.... just.... letmme think...