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View Full Version : As the Pacers rebuild, this forum will change also.



stipo
02-05-2006, 04:44 PM
Let's face it- the Pacers are going to have to do some serious rebuilding to get back to being a real contender. Which makes me wonder how many members of this forum were fans when the Pacers really stank in a big way (most of their NBA years before Larry Brown).

When Artest left, I realized that it might be a long, long time before the Pacers are among the elite again. Most teams in the league have no chance at the championship and know it. How long has it been since the Pacers had more than a few years in a row when simply getting out of the first round would be seen as a success? We were spoiled with the quick rebuild (after the finals team broke up several years ago). The team might be bad or mediocre for a long time to come, and I think it will be interesting to see how most PD members weather the storm. Able really might have a hard time finding consistently positive posts when and if the Pacers record becomes sorry on a yearly basis! (I've lived it, it can happen!)

I hope it's another quick turnaround, but frankly the last one was almost too good to be true. Considering what happened with Ron, it WAS too good--kind of like fools gold in the end! And I'm sure some will say that I'm being too negative and that's fine with me. I know I'll still follow the team long after people again make fun of me for wearing Pacer attire. Meanwhile the bandwagon will once again be considerably lighter!

pizza guy
02-05-2006, 05:11 PM
It will come, soon enough.

Let's talk about it then, not now. There's still a glimmer of hope, and last night's game against the Pistons helped spark it. So, until TPTB admit we're in rebuilding mode, which will probably be in actions, not words, let's discuss the present, not the dim future.

Please?

BlueNGold
02-05-2006, 05:17 PM
I disagree that the Pacers will stink like they used to (post ABA/pre-Reggie)...at least any time soon. The used to be horrible and it was a miracle when they even made the playoffs. Amazingly, the team will need to sustain even more damage to knock them out of the playoffs. They appear in position to make a nice run with the acquisition of Peja.

Now, they do need changes to be a contender, but if they get their players healthy they are still one of the top 4 teams in the east without Ron. If they make the right personnel move(s), they might be right back up there. We could go in full rebuilding mode, but I doubt that happens right now. I actually would like to see that happen because I seriously doubt JO is taking this franchise to the promised land...

stipo
02-05-2006, 05:27 PM
It will come, soon enough.

Let's talk about it then, not now. There's still a glimmer of hope, and last night's game against the Pistons helped spark it. So, until TPTB admit we're in rebuilding mode, which will probably be in actions, not words, let's discuss the present, not the dim future.

Please?
Fair enough. We don't have to talk about the large elephant in the middle of the room.;) It doesn't help much to talk about it anyway I suppose. I just find it interesting and I thought I would bring it up.

Tim
02-05-2006, 05:46 PM
I don't think the team will slip down much farther unless injury plays a big role.

What I think is going to happen is DOnnie and Larry will use this season and next season to recover from the last two seasons. That might seem like a long time but its needed to get a good view on Danger and Hulk. THey need to know if they can really build around them and JO, and figure out a formula to win.

CompACE
02-05-2006, 05:55 PM
Wow - your making it sound like the pacers will take a really long time to rebuild. We're not that bad -even this year. Jermaine o'neal will still be in the prime of his career for i'm guessing another 2 years - Plus our young guys are looking great. Before this year i would have never thought david harrison would be playing at the level he is right now - I'll admit we're probably not as good as the Pre-Brawl Pacers from last year, but i doubt we'll be stuck in basketball purgatory as long as the Clippers and Warriors were before.

stipo
02-05-2006, 05:59 PM
Wow - your making it sound like the pacers will take a really long time to rebuild. We're not that bad -even this year. Jermaine o'neal will still be in the prime of his career for i'm guessing another 2 years - Plus our young guys are looking great. Before this year i would have never thought david harrison would be playing at the level he is right now - I'll admit we're probably not as good as the Pre-Brawl Pacers from last year, but i doubt we'll be stuck in basketball purgatory as long as the Clippers and Warriors were before.
I just look at the "cycle" of NBA teams- their peak years, and then the rebuilding time. I'm totally wrong if Larry makes a fantastic trade. We've got some good young players, Granger is gonna be special, but it'll take more than that to climb the mountain again.

PacerMan
02-05-2006, 08:06 PM
I just look at the "cycle" of NBA teams- their peak years, and then the rebuilding time. I'm totally wrong if Larry makes a fantastic trade. We've got some good young players, Granger is gonna be special, but it'll take more than that to climb the mountain again.

that's plain silly. THis team hasn't had all it's pieces ALL SEASON.
Watch and learn.

Unclebuck
02-05-2006, 08:15 PM
This is not a rebuilding process.

Bball
02-05-2006, 08:53 PM
This is not a rebuilding process.

No it's not.

-Bball

stipo
02-05-2006, 09:25 PM
that's plain silly. THis team hasn't had all it's pieces ALL SEASON.
Watch and learn.
Obviously people are blinded by loyalty. I'm a fan, but please, this team isn't going anywhere. I suppose last night gave new hope to members around here? Hey, it's still a half decent team, but it's a pretender, and will be for the forseeable future.

This team isn't rebuilding yet, but it will be soon if it wants to be anything but average. Pacer children cover your ears!! Blasphemy!!

Mr. Pink
02-05-2006, 09:36 PM
This team is in injury mode..not rebuilding mode.

owl
02-05-2006, 10:26 PM
The rest of this season will determine who, if any players are traded away.
I think it is highly unlikely any further trades will be made before the
trading deadline.


owl

PacerMan
02-05-2006, 10:35 PM
Obviously people are blinded by loyalty. I'm a fan, but please, this team isn't going anywhere. I suppose last night gave new hope to members around here? Hey, it's still a half decent team, but it's a pretender, and will be for the forseeable future.

This team isn't rebuilding yet, but it will be soon if it wants to be anything but average. Pacer children cover your ears!! Blasphemy!!


You're blinded by something! We are without our Top 10 player and our starting point guard. We'll be above average with no other moves than getting healthy.

brichard
02-05-2006, 11:19 PM
I view myself as an optomist, but I find it difficult, dare I say impossible to be optimistic about the Pacers right now. Fool me once shame on you, fool me a thousand times shame on me.

Watching the Colts crash and burn in their first playoff game took the wind out of my sails in a major way. Watching Ron Artest kick this franchise in the Jimmy for the third straight year was equally disheartening. I've recently been pondering why exactly it is that I watch sports in the first place.

I realize that winning a championship in a smaller market is tough, but crap, when is it finally going to happen? My patience is extremely thin. I think you are seeing many Pacer fans feeling the same way. The attendance seems to be visibly down to me, but I don't know the statistics.

Screw the .500 crap and I'm not intersted in re-building either. I want to win a championship and I want to win one now. I know it is unrealistic to feel that way, but that is where I'm at. Perhaps I'll be happier when the sun shines again. :)

I was talking to my brother the other day and he mentioned that Reggie probably made him hang on to watching the Pacers longer than maybe he otherwise would. It isn't that the Pacers aren't his favorite team anymore, but the lack of Reggie and the absence of good basketball (with the exception of the last couple of games) and they just have not been that fun to watch.

Danny Granger is the biggest glimmer of hope I have right now. He is a flat out player and I hope we are as fortunate in this year's draft.

Unclebuck
02-05-2006, 11:51 PM
If the pacers were to trade J.O. tomorrow for future draft picks and salary cap relief and decide they won't re-sign Peja and they get rid of Jax and Tinsley for more cap space but nothing else. Then yes we are rebuilding

grace
02-05-2006, 11:52 PM
I realize that winning a championship in a smaller market is tough, but crap, when is it finally going to happen?

Well, if you're taking bets I'll take 86 years.

Swingman
02-05-2006, 11:58 PM
I highly doubt we're going to become a bad NBA team. This team is only a few pieces short of being a contender. If we can trade TInsley and a few other players for some good starters and draft well again then we can be right back in the hunt for a championship.

Saranus, Granger, Peja, JO, Croshere, Foster, Harrison are great pieces to the team.

Kaufman
02-06-2006, 12:01 AM
I hope it's another quick turnaround, but frankly the last one was almost too good to be true. Considering what happened with Ron, it WAS too good--kind of like fools gold in the end!

Stipo, I really liked your fools gold analogy here - seems to be such an uncanny comparision. I might propose that he was fools gold all along, not only in the end...

pizza guy
02-06-2006, 12:42 AM
At some point, the Pacers will probably be at the bottom of that all-knowing ESPN Power Rankings, and people will go to the games to watch Boomer and Bowser (if Bowser isn't already retired, I wish he would). It's unavoidable, it's the system. But as soon as we get healthy (I would like to know, in the last three or four years, how many times that's been said?!), we're a team to be reckoned with. Do I think we have a chance at beating the Spurs or the Pistons in 7 game series? No, not really, but making it out of the first round this year will be a success. Things have been bad around here these last few years, and most of the blame can be placed squarely on one person, but that's another thread. We're not ready to rebuild, just tweek. A trade here, a trade there, and a draft pick over yonder, and this is a darn good team. I posted last night that I liked the lineup of Sarunas, DG, Hulk, Freddie, and I'd like to change SJax for JO at the 4, and I still think tonight that that's a darn good team.

We need a couple things to be contenders again, but it's possible. I don't know how long it'll take, or when this ride will officially come to an end, all I can do is watch, cheer, and hope.

Bball
02-06-2006, 02:26 AM
Stipo, I really liked your fools gold analogy here - seems to be such an uncanny comparision. I might propose that he was fools gold all along, not only in the end...

I think he meant that Artest was fool's gold all along... we just didn't see it until the end....

-Bball

Will Galen
02-06-2006, 06:29 AM
Which makes me wonder how many members of this forum were fans when the Pacers really stank in a big way (most of their NBA years before Larry Brown).

I've been a hardcore fan since their birth.

I've always been hardcore about the teams I follow. I remember when I was 11 years old (now 62) walking four miles to a drug store so I could spend half my allowance on a Sunday newspaper, just so I could read the sports section on the Anderson Indians high school basketball team. I did that several times.

I know some fans complain that the Pacers are built for the regular season. As a fan that suffered though miserable seasons, I've always thought that didn't make to much sense.

Some words you can string together and they make a good sound bite, but when you reason on them you realize their power is in the initial punch, and that's it.

One, you can't guarantee a championship. For instant, everyone was on the Laker's bandwagon two years ago when they added Payton and Malone to Kobe and Shaq. No matter the reason, they didn't win the championship.

So you build for the regular season trying to be good all the time and hope you get lucky and hit the right combination that brings championships.

Where am I going with this? Just that I would rather be in the hunt every year than go though years of miserable seasons. I've been there and done that. I like the here and now much better than the years right after the Pacers entered the NBA.

D-BONE
02-06-2006, 07:12 AM
I'm with WG on this. For me, rebuilding implies jettisoning multiple key components and replacing them with young players and/or draft picks, a la UB's post, and usually is accompanied by 25 wins per year. I would rather not have to live through that again if possible. And right now, there's enough talent that it need not be done. Now, if they absolutely tank the rest of this year, then maybe you entertain the possibility, but even at that point I just don't think it will be a complete rebuilding.

Black Sox
02-06-2006, 09:39 AM
Pacers are far from being in Rebuilding mode. Take three starters from any team and lets see if they win as many games as the Pacers. I know for sure Detroit wouldn't win 10 games all year with their bench. When everyone is healthy this team can be very good. They have had alot of bad luck with injuries that has kept them for reaching a contender status. As Pacers fans we haven't seen this Pacers team have a healthy roster for 2 seasons now. But their on their way in later march to have everyone back. Then we can see the true Pacer team.

beast23
02-06-2006, 11:04 AM
We are not in rebuilding mode. But I think it would also be foolish to believe that additional changes are not on the way.

You don't lose someone with Artest's all-around skills in your lineup without finding the means to replace those skills. Peja can immediately fill the scoring role that Ron had. But Peja cannot begin to contribute defensively in the way that Ron did.

That may mean that Tinsley, who is known to be a weak defender, may get swapped out for another player to help bolster the defense among the starters.

Or, who knows? AJ is a much better defender than Tinsley. Maybe he will start and Tinsley will come off the bench. But this is just an example. One way or another, we will find the means to cover what we have lost through Artest's trade, and we will also improve other areas of weakness.

But I don't think it will require wholesale rebuilding to do so.

cariocapacer
02-06-2006, 12:06 PM
As long as the Simons are willing to commit $70 million to payroll and I. Thomas isn't the GM the Pacers will not return to their uncompetitive days.

fwpacerfan
02-06-2006, 12:16 PM
The Pacers are in a 'retweaking' mode. They need to get more durable players and that probably means getting rid of Tinsley. They seem to be installing a more up tempo style which will suit Peja and SJax. My hope is that JO is getting hurt a lot because he is playing out of position a lot. The development of Harrison will help in that area.

Walsh is the master at retweaking and never falling out of the playoff race. I have no reason to believe he won't do it again. In the past he has addressed needs while keeping key components in place and he appears to be doing it again.

Pacesetter
02-06-2006, 04:54 PM
I like the here and now much better than the years right after the Pacers entered the NBA.

Those memories haunt me like a bad dream. I hope we don't have to experience that again - that was horrible. We were like the 90's LA Clippers of the late 70's and 80's, without the LA!