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able
02-05-2006, 01:21 PM
Last night, after the game finished, I went to the forum to read what people would be saying.
I felt that we had something to celebrate and was looking forward to some of the "hoorah" posts and more specifically I was interested to read what ppl like Peck and UB were saying, after they cam back from the game.

In the first 3 threads I was reading I saw comments from one poster harping on JO, remotely related to the result of last night's game.
The 3rd thread was one he started himself, in which he went on another rant about how bad JO is.
To me this was the famous straw.

However I reacted disproportionally and attacked the posted personally, something out of character for me, but I still did.

I am sorry for doing this.

I should have taken the high road and put this poster on my ignore list instead of doing what I did.

I was so upset however with his post that I posted what I said and left the forum.
As of the moment I am typing this I have not yet been back.

Though I should never have posted what I did, at the very least not in the wording used, I must say that the outright negativity in posts is getting to me in an uncanny way.

At the moment I am only looking for posts by a select view to read, and reading 5 threads in a 24 hour period seems a lot.

I like talking about the team, discussing all matters concerning this, and I am a firm believer in free speech. Yes you can be critical of the team you support, in fact at times perhaps you should be, however being critical and continuously hate or spiteful of one or more players are totally different matters.

Even in his "trade all 15 players" post Jay was never disrespectful to any player in particular, nor were other posters.

The "Tinsley sux", "JO is a ******", "may Artest get injured" and "Player X is an a**hole" outcries are frequent and irritating.

I suppose this was the wrong thread at the wrong moment in the wrong place and to top it of, I reacted wrong.

Should Hicks want to send me on a holiday, I would accept such, had I stayed, I would probably have removed my remarks after "cooling down".

I do not have and do not seek "special privileges" here, but I do say that this was "out of character" for me, and as such I hope that is taken into consideration.

Once more, I am sorry.

Mr. Pink
02-05-2006, 01:23 PM
Don't worry about it there, big guy. We all get in those moods.

PCC87
02-05-2006, 01:24 PM
Its cool man i know I have had those days alot this and last season....

317Kim
02-05-2006, 01:26 PM
Nothing big. It's all good :)

Knucklehead Warrior
02-05-2006, 01:28 PM
Thank you Able. I feel better now. :)

Roaming Gnome
02-05-2006, 01:47 PM
Able, your apology is a class act. Jon still had no excuse to disgrace the hard work that is done to make the Digest what it is.

I often disagree with his 3.7 GPA opinion, but that doesn't make me an elitist or racist. Some believe that Jon got a quick trigger, but seriously...he went on a limb that was awful skinny.

Lithfan
02-05-2006, 02:56 PM
Ohhhhh I don't understand americans so much!!!
One moment you behave like dirty kids and next moment you are suddenly her majesty knights.
Is it me or what?
Or is it influence of PD?
Should I expect changes in my behaviour soon as well?
:) :) :D

Stryder
02-05-2006, 03:09 PM
Good thread.

Pig Nash
02-05-2006, 03:09 PM
psssst Able's british/(danish?)

Thanks very much for the apology, Able. With you and Jon, and also VA and Hicks, I thought it was getting weird around here. Thanks for proving me wrong.

pizza guy
02-05-2006, 03:10 PM
Thank you Able, that was the proper thing to do. Both of you guys last night said some things that didn't need to be said, and I appreciate your apology.

Lithfan
02-05-2006, 04:56 PM
Oh ******!!!
Able is her majesty knight!!! (Location UK)
Just interested, what do you think is percent of Americans here?

Peck
02-05-2006, 05:24 PM
Thank you Able.

The entire episode took the wind out of my sails last night. Between that & the way my posting went yesterday I just felt trounced on last night.

I am proud of the way you handled this. It actually makes me feel much better today.

Again, thank you.:buddies:

owl
02-05-2006, 05:33 PM
To err is human, to forgive is divine. To apologize is hard to do when
we mess up but it is truly liberating. I have been there myself enough times.
Well done able.


owl

Anthem
02-05-2006, 06:03 PM
Able, I appreciate you saying that. It's hard to apologize to anybody, even people you don't know.

I've been torn for a while, because I appreciate everything you've done to make this place work, and yet (as "Mr. 3.7" pointed out before getting the boot) I have felt like there's been a double standard applied at times.

This thread makes that whole issue moot. Apology accepted, my friend, and thanks again for taking this road.

PS. For those who don't know, able hosts the PD website for free.

Diamond Dave
02-05-2006, 06:08 PM
Um?

The apology is good and all, but what about reinstating Jon Theodore. His original post was nothing but his opinion, and in no way came close to violating any of PD's policies.

Everything he stated after his orginal post I believe was provoked, and can be stricken from the record.

Yes, the 3.7 GPA thing was stupid (especially those of us with a 3.9 ;) ), but I'd like to see how some of us would respond to that type of insult.

So just let me say that I wish we could truly make the incident go away by reinstating Jon, having both parties put each other on their respective ignore lists, and move on.

Pacersfan46
02-05-2006, 06:08 PM
This thread makes that whole issue moot.

Apologizing makes the act okay? Means there isn't a double standard?

Nobody else gets a chance to "cool down", or come back and apologize the next day to dodge repercussions. It's still a double standard, and no apology can make that issue "moot". As it still happened.

Diamond Dave
02-05-2006, 06:10 PM
Apologizing makes the act okay? Means there isn't a double standard?

Nobody else gets a chance to "cool down", or come back and apologize the next day to dodge repercussions. It's still a double standard, and no apology can make that issue "moot". As it still happened.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.

Eindar
02-05-2006, 06:16 PM
I think the apology is the important part. I have no problem letting most people have a 2nd, and possibly even a 3rd chance.

Hell, if we can handle Ron Artest, Able should be no problem :)

On further review, I (regretfully) think you have to re-instate Jon Theodore :D

Anthem
02-05-2006, 06:29 PM
I'm ok with reinstating Jon. Was it a site-wide vacation, or just detention in the shout box?

Although I think one thing that gets people the boot is playing the race card, and I honestly don't understand what he meant when he called the forum "racist."

Ultimate Frisbee
02-05-2006, 06:53 PM
Thanks able, it happens to the best of us... at which point we make ammends like you have.

Moses
02-05-2006, 06:53 PM
I guess I sort of need to apologize as well. I quoted Able in that thread and directly supported what he said mainly because it was definitely a comical insult and I was also a bit angry that we had just beat the Pistons and that I had to read one of those threads already. We need to put disclaimers on some posts that give warning if they are going to whine for no reason about trading certain players. If you want to trade JO, Post some hard evidence. I don't want to see TRADE JO BECAUSE HES A ***** AND GOT DUNKED ON BY DWAYNE WADE!!

Diamond Dave
02-05-2006, 07:05 PM
I guess I sort of need to apologize as well. I quoted Able in that thread and directly supported what he said mainly because it was definitely a comical insult and I was also a bit angry that we had just beat the Pistons and that I had to read one of those threads already. We need to put disclaimers on some posts that give warning if they are going to whine for no reason about trading certain players. If you want to trade JO, Post some hard evidence. I don't want to see TRADE JO BECAUSE HES A ***** AND GOT DUNKED ON BY DWAYNE WADE!!

No offense here buddy, but is there anything that you would consider hard evidence. This is a message board of opinions, what do you mean by hard evidence?

Jon talked about his dislike for the "Throw it to JO" offense, and he is using the past two games as examples of how a different offense can be more effective.

This was not a Game Thread post where one is more likely to see the assinine "TRADE JO BECAUSE HES A ***** AND GOT DUNKED ON BY DWAYNE WADE!!".

He stated his opinion, unpopular and in some opinions untimely, but he still has that right as long as he stays within the clearly defined PD Policies.

Moses
02-05-2006, 07:13 PM
No offense here buddy, but is there anything that you would consider hard evidence. This is a message board of opinions, what do you mean by hard evidence?

Jon talked about his dislike for the "Throw it to JO" offense, and he is using the past two games as examples of how a different offense can be more effective.

This was not a Game Thread post where one is more likely to see the assinine "TRADE JO BECAUSE HES A ***** AND GOT DUNKED ON BY DWAYNE WADE!!".

He stated his opinion, unpopular and in some opinions untimely, but he still has that right as long as he stays within the clearly defined PD Policies.
If you don't want people to argue with you and you know the subject you are about to post is extremely controversial, at least make it as insightful as possible. By hard evidence, I mean FACTS. KStat is extremely good at making these type of posts.

He even openly invited the "Jermaine Lovers" to come to his rescue.

Needless to say, I shouldn't have quoted Able or agreed with what he said because what he posted wasn't about basketball, it was more so a personal insult to Jon and it was out of line. No need to start another argument about peoples rights to openly express themselves on the board. I'll just have to cope with the Trade Jermaine/Tinsley posts using ignore and/or maturity.

Shade
02-05-2006, 07:20 PM
I think certain schticks just get kinda old. Like JT and his "JO is the worst Pacer ever!" statements (and, yes, he did actually make that claim earlier in the season). It crosses the line between criticism and trolling. Which is why I'e been watching my "trade AJ and Jack!" posts lately. Well, that, and they've actually been playing pretty well (especially AJ). ;)

Unclebuck
02-05-2006, 08:31 PM
Anyone else have no idea what this is all about. I guess I didn't read thread the thread

Moses
02-05-2006, 09:08 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19017

Anthem
02-05-2006, 10:12 PM
I still don't understand calling the forum "racist."

Arcadian
02-05-2006, 10:20 PM
Let's not lose sight that Jon wasn't attacked (which he shouldn't have been) for his opinions. It is how he expresses them that is questionable.

owl
02-05-2006, 10:20 PM
JT admitted he was drinking so anything he had to say has no basis
in fact. Racist board, pish posh. If Jon wants to apologize let him back on.
Otherwise he can wait his 2 weeks.


owl

Moses
02-05-2006, 10:23 PM
JT admitted he was drinking so anything he had to say has no basis
in fact. Racist board, pish posh. If Jon wants to apologize let him back on.
Otherwise he can wait his 2 weeks.


owl
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/hobbitcore/ORLY.jpg

owl
02-05-2006, 10:47 PM
YA RLLY!!!

NO WAI!!!


owl

owl
02-05-2006, 10:49 PM
and......all your base are belong to us!!!!



owl

Will Galen
02-05-2006, 10:57 PM
Anyone else have no idea what this is all about. I guess I didn't read thread the thread


I didn't read all of the thread.

I passed it by several times. When I saw it had about 25 replies I thought maybe something interesting was happening and paid it a visit. The reason I had been passing it by was because it was started by Jon Theodore.

I read part of the thread, saw people were fighting instead of talking basketball like I had hoped, and baled out.

My thoughts on the controversy.

I have Jon on ignore, because I think he's just a high class troll. He routinely starts threads that he knows are going to be controversial. Since I have him on ignore I only read what he said when someone quoted him.

I read what Able said and I thought it over the top, but I put it down to him biting on Jon's bait.

Now I'm one of those guys that ALWAYS defends someone when I think they have been treated unfair. I didn't rush to Jon's aid.

Of course I wasn't party to everything that was said either.

In The Rules Of The Digest, The first rule says,

1. Don't be a jerk.
You have no right, at any time, to deny anyone on this forum the right to have a positive experience and/or conversation on this forum.

Now I don't know about everyone else, but when you have a bunch of people like Jon and GetOdom starting a lot of posts, instead of this place being a positive experience it turns into a copy of the Star forum. If the mods are going to permit that, there wasn't much sense in breaking from the Star forum.

Personally, I want this forum to become the number one board on the INTERNET for intelligent basketball discussion about the Pacers and NBA. It's already there with the Pacers, but I've noticed other good discussion boards on the Net.

I want to keep attracting the Mark Boyle's of the basketball world because they make the conversations much richer.

The problem is we also attract the Tom, Dick, and Harry's, that are more interested in causing conflict than talking basketball. There's also the fact that some people can talk about a controversial subject without causing conflict and some don't have the wherewithal upstairs to do so, even if they so chose.

Would it be fair to remove people from the board that don't try to make trouble but do? No, but since we can't read each other's minds or facial expressions we are stuck with their words. Fair or not, people that are lightning rods for conflict should be removed for the good of the board.

Thus I have no problem with Jon's removal. He may have a 3.7 gpa, but he clearly doesn't have the wherewithal upstairs to talk in a way that doesn't bring conflict. That, or he's a high class troll as I suspect.

Whatever, I think Hicks should add to the The Rules Of The Digest that people that are lightning rods for conflict will be removed.

As for Able. A first class apology.

What should Hicks do? Well since I didn't read everything I don't know the rights and wrongs that were committed. Public opinion is usually a good gage. Going by that I would either ask Able to impose his own penalty, or I would reinstate Jon.

brichard
02-05-2006, 11:08 PM
Able,

It is a classy thing to apologize. You host the site, so it isn't something you have to do. If you want to get rid of people that are annyoying it is your choice. Others may not like it, but if they don't, they can start their own website.

Talking down to somebody about their grade point average is classless. The one millionaire I'm friends with has never taken a college class. What was Larry Brown's GPA? How about Larry Bird? Does this diminish their ability to know basketball. Very poor taste to post something like that.

But alas, I find that common courtesy is something that just seems to be missing overall. I can't tell you how many times I will go to a restaurant and young kids will not offer their seats to the elderly. I guess I'm not sure when being rude became so fashionable.

Hicks
02-05-2006, 11:12 PM
I think we owe Jon a chance to redeem himself, but I still don't like his "racist" comment. He's un-banned.

Bball
02-05-2006, 11:16 PM
I guess I'm not sure when being rude became so fashionable.

Answer:
Whenever people started believing their feelings had more significance than they actually do.

-Bball

SoupIsGood
02-05-2006, 11:18 PM
Answer:
Whenever people started believing their feelings had more significance than they actually do.

-Bball

:confused:

brichard
02-05-2006, 11:23 PM
Answer:
Whenever people started believing their feelings had more significance than they actually do.

-Bball


I'm not sure I understand where you are going here. Please 'Splain. :cool:

Bball
02-05-2006, 11:31 PM
I'm not sure I understand where you are going here. Please 'Splain. :cool:

It seemed to make sense when I said it. 'Splaining it seems harder...

(Many) People don't care about other's feelings, desires, etc... they only worry about themselves. Therefore, it's easy for them to be rude (whether intentionaly or not). They don't care about their fellow man. And if their own feelings get bruised you'd think they've actually received some physical harm from the screaming.

-Bball

brichard
02-05-2006, 11:38 PM
It seemed to make sense when I said it. 'Splaining it seems harder...

(Many) People don't care about other's feelings, desires, etc... they only worry about themselves. Therefore, it's easy for them to be rude (whether intentionaly or not). They don't care about their fellow man. And if their own feelings get bruised you'd think they've actually received some physical harm from the screaming.

-Bball

Got it. :cool:

The other funny thing I've found is that people can't often debate things without interjecting their emotion. One of the things I enjoy about debates with you, is that we can each do that. I realize that I can't change your mind, and you won't change mine... but you do make me think. Frankly I think it would be boring if everybody had the same opinion.

What would PD be without the Walsh attackers and Warriors? :)

Will Galen
02-05-2006, 11:44 PM
It seemed to make sense when I said it. 'Splaining it seems harder...

(Many) People don't care about other's feelings, desires, etc... they only worry about themselves. Therefore, it's easy for them to be rude (whether intentionaly or not). They don't care about their fellow man. And if their own feelings get bruised you'd think they've actually received some physical harm from the screaming.

-Bball

I think that was a good explanation! That in a nutshell is why some people won't conform to the norm. A weak example, not using a spell checker.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
02-05-2006, 11:52 PM
Dude, its very respectable to be able to come out and make a very visible apology on something that was pretty insignificant in my opinion (UB doesnt even know what the hell were talkin about). Of course, I think Jon's posts were pretty insignificant also. I mean its good to hear the dissenting opinion also isn't it?

Imo everyone has they're bad moments, and neither one of you should deserve any sort of permanent punishment.

Kaufman
02-05-2006, 11:58 PM
I think often people try to boost their own egos by putting down the egos of others.

This is my interpretation on BBall's comment.

denyfizle
02-06-2006, 12:30 AM
able sucks- not! :jester: this is what a real leader is all about. now can we all just hug it out??? :)

able
02-06-2006, 12:31 AM
As I didn't expect this to turn into a thread and a decent discussion and nor am I sure whether I should post further on the subject there are (after reading the remainder of that thread) a couple of remarks;

1. The intelligence remark was funny, how is he to know I am a former Mensa member?
2. The same topic (better team without JO) is brought forward on occasion by Bball, however his threads don't start with the premise that JO is the worst player on this team, but on the premise of the question why.
3. (and final) I do host this board, as such I have "admin powers", however to make that prefectly clear, I do NOT ban people, and I only delete posts on request or that are against the IP rules. in NO other way do I interfere with the running of the board, unless my opinion is counted as such. I do not hold any special position over others here, and am just as susceptable to a ban as everyone, however most perpetrators if not all, are not banned on a "first" offense, the ones I know of usually are on their 5th offense and have been repeatedly addressed in PM's
I got a PM about this, and had I been online I would most certainly have complied with that.

Thank you for your understanding.

SoupIsGood
02-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Very nice point Able, this place is great about not banning people on the first or even second offense. Many times, it might seem a double standard is in place, but that is likely because that person is not a frequent offender, not even close to frequent (if at all), in most cases...... just my take anyway

Diamond Dave
02-06-2006, 01:15 AM
I think we owe Jon a chance to redeem himself, but I still don't like his "racist" comment. He's un-banned.

I'm with you on the "racist" comment, uncalled for, un-merited, and unacceptable. Hopefully it was an over-exaggerated "blow-up."

But thank you for at least providing a second chance. I don't know this Jon Theodore in the slightest. As a matter of fact I do not think I've even interacted with him online. Still, I thought his post was fine. Perhaps over done, but everyone has their players they don't like. Go back and read some of my posts on Artest over the summer. :D

So hopefully, he will continue here at PD and do so in a civic manner. If not, ban him for all I care.

But if I was a betting man, which I'm not, I would say that he won't be back on his own for a while.

SamBear
02-06-2006, 01:51 AM
Ya'll are too nice here... :)