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View Full Version : Of Peja and Granger, a logjam at SF?



ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 03:40 PM
I've hinted at this in a few thread, but it hasn't turned into the discussion I'm looking for.

Many of us, at the January forum party, thought that any reduction in Granger's minutes/ role would be a very bad thing. At that time, we did not envision the Pacers trading for another SF.

Obviously, Stephen Jackson's popularity around here is at an all-time low.

I don't think Granger can play SG reguarly, and I also don't think he can play PF reguarly. He's a prototype SF.

My question...

Does anybody think Peja can play SG?

I know he's tall and slow. We've also got "short and fast" on the roster, and he struggles defensively against normal sized SGs, especially against off-the-ball screens.

If Peja can't play SG, then I don't want to re-sign him and I don't want him taking SF minutes away from Granger.

But I think Peja *can* play SG for the Pacers.

Your thoughts?

piksi
02-01-2006, 03:50 PM
Pedja is very capable of playing SG. He did it for Serbian NT for years.

He would have problems guarding opponents SGs

He is not the greatest ball handler either

Fireball Kid
02-01-2006, 03:55 PM
If you want Kobe to break Wilt's record against us, than by all means, lets start Peja at SG.:D

Seriously, Peja is best at SF. I would like to see Danny play PF only if Saras or Tinsley are at PG. I think hes capable of it, seeing as he has Shawn Marion/Andrei Kirilenko type skills.

Trader Joe
02-01-2006, 03:56 PM
Why not Reggie played SG for the PAcers for 18 years. Peja is a lot like Reg in the way he plays. He may not be the leader or the clutch player the Reggie was, but I think DG is the star of the future anyways. Peja's only real difference is that he is three inches taller than Reg. I also think Peja can play in the post a lot more like Jack does at the two.

Arcadian
02-01-2006, 03:56 PM
I think it depends on who are big men are and who well they can cover for the times when Peja gets beat.

If we can't put together a team that we believe can compete for a championship I'd rather let Peja go and develop Granger. Between Granger developing and Peja aging in a couple years there won't be a question who the better SF is.

btowncolt
02-01-2006, 03:57 PM
I don't think Peja or Danny can play shooting guard. And I don't think Peja or Danny can play PF. But I think you can put them both on the floor and not have any problems. If that makes any sense.

Trader Joe
02-01-2006, 03:57 PM
Oh yeah DG can just guard the best perimeter offensive player of the opponent so Peja would not guard the Kobes or T-Macs of the world.

rexnom
02-01-2006, 04:02 PM
Playing SG doesn't mean you have to play SG offensively and defensively. Look at Tayshaun Prince. He plays SF for the Pistons but he frequently guards SGs like Kobe. Danny can do the same. He certainly has the Speed.

Slick Pinkham
02-01-2006, 04:04 PM
I think that Peja and Danny can play together if and only if Danny is able to guard whomever is the biggest offensive threat on the opposing team at either the SG of SF positions.

I'm not sure whether that makes Danny the SG, or Peja. :confused:

I am 100% sure that I want no part of Peja consistently guarding outstanding Sgs like Pierce, Wade, Kobe, Ben Gordon, Vince Carter, Rip Hamilton etc.

I see no reason so far that Danny can't cover these guys as well as Jax or anybody else on our roster. Granted we don't have a lot to go on yet. Danny did a pretty good job on LeBron IMO.

If the choice for 2/3 are

1) Danny + Peja
2) Danny & Jax
3) Jax & Peja

then I prefer choice 1. Choosing between choices 2 & 3 is difficult. Frankly I'd prefer Fred/Danny or Fred/Peja before I would put Jackson on the floor.

Trader Joe
02-01-2006, 04:05 PM
^^^Hammer meat head of nail. Head of nail meet hammer.

tadscout
02-01-2006, 04:09 PM
I don't think Peja or Danny can play shooting guard. And I don't think Peja or Danny can play PF. But I think you can put them both on the floor and not have any problems. If that makes any sense.

Correct... who says you heve to have-
1- PG
1- SG
1- SF
1- PF
1- C

on the court at the same time... think outside the box or look at the PHX Suns... As long as you have a team on the floor that gels nicely and works well together; who says the players have to fit into the phototype positions... is there some sort of basketball rule for it? Some of you sure make it sound like it...

I guess I can just care less for the titles of PG/SG/SF/PF/C... Just put 5 players out there that player well together and is affective against the other team...

waxman
02-01-2006, 04:20 PM
Playing SG doesn't mean you have to play SG offensively and defensively. Look at Tayshaun Prince. He plays SF for the Pistons but he frequently guards SGs like Kobe. Danny can do the same. He certainly has the Speed.

Exactly... Peja would run the 2 guard plays offensively and DG the 3. That would also help keep Danny close to the bucket for offensive board work.


Jackson can then be the fecal point of the 2nd unit. Then we don't have to be dependent on his inconsistancy to start off games, and it may take some scoring pressure off him so he can relax a little and just ball .

sweabs
02-01-2006, 04:21 PM
Jackson can then be the fecal point of the 2nd unit.

He's the fecal point of any offense.

Trader Joe
02-01-2006, 04:22 PM
Exactly... Peja would run the 2 guard plays offensively and DG the 3. That would also help keep Danny close to the bucket for offensive board work.


Jackson can then be the fecal point of the 2nd unit. Then we don't have to be dependent on his inconsistancy to start off games, and it may take some scoring pressure off him so he can relax a little and just ball .

IDK if this was intentional, but regardless it was hilarious.:D :laugh:

ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 04:24 PM
I am 100% sure that I want no part of Peja consistently guarding outstanding Sgs like Pierce, Wade, Kobe, Ben Gordon, Vince Carter, Rip Hamilton etc.

Well, we don't really have anybody on our roster that we want to keep that can guard those guys. Well, Fred isn't bad against Wade, but he can't really guard the rest of those guys, either.

+ + + + + + + +

So what I hear from some of you is that, assuming SJax is out...

PG - Tinsley or Saras. (I don't care anymore)
SG/SF - Peja and Granger
PF/C - JO and Harrison

Backup G - Fred Jones
Backup Swingman - TBD
Backup bigman - Croshere or Foster

Yeah, that's not a bad start.

Unclebuck
02-01-2006, 04:24 PM
No way can Peja play shooting guard. No way.

tadscout
02-01-2006, 04:25 PM
He's the fecal point of any offense.

:rotflmao::2tup:

ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 04:25 PM
No way can Peja play shooting guard. No way.

Care to explain?

Fireball Kid
02-01-2006, 04:29 PM
No way can Peja play shooting guard. No way.

Thats what I like about Unclebuck, he keeps all of his post short and simple.:thumbup:

Los Angeles
02-01-2006, 04:29 PM
I don't see a logjam problem. The solution is to do the same thing we did with Ron/JO/Harrington. Only this time it will be Peja/Croshere/Granger (in no particular order). Granger can easily come off the bench and be a 30 minute 6th man without much difficulty.

The difficulty will be in the coaching and the team adjusting to the different styles of play.

waxman
02-01-2006, 04:31 PM
IDK if this was intentional, but regardless it was hilarious.:D :laugh:


It was accidental ..... but I left it there because it seemed appropriate.

Slick Pinkham
02-01-2006, 04:33 PM
Uncle Buck, do you think Danny Granger can adequately guard any opposing shooting guards?

Is so, then the Peja/Granger SG/SF merry-go-round is just like the Foster/Jermaine PF/C issue- just semantics.

I like to thing also of the advantages it would bring. I would like to see Wade or Pierce guard Granger or Peja.

Hicks
02-01-2006, 04:34 PM
I think Danny does fine at PF, but I like him best at SF. I also have confidence that if assigned to a SG, he'd find a way to stay in front of him with his brain and his length and his skills.

ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 04:43 PM
In time, I could see Danny smothering PGs like the way Pippen used to smother Mark Jackson.

SoupIsGood
02-01-2006, 04:48 PM
Danny has guarded Kobe and LeBron fairly well in limited action. I don't see why Peja and Danny paired together wouldn't work. It would work -really- well if we had a somewhat decent PG. We really need one.


If Peja can't play SG, then I don't want to re-sign him and I don't want him taking SF minutes away from Granger.

But I think Peja *can* play SG for the Pacers.

Yup!

waxman
02-01-2006, 04:50 PM
In time, I could see Danny smothering PGs like the way Pippen used to smother Mark Jackson.


The Horror...the Horror. That drove me absolutely nuts...


Didn't Harper give Jax the same business against L.A.?

Black Sox
02-01-2006, 04:53 PM
The best line up would be
PG Sara
SG Peja
SF Granger
PF Oneal
C Foster

Granger can guard the stronger offensive play of the 2 or 3 of the other team. Plus defensive doesn't always win games. you just have to outscore the other teams. Similar to Suns and Mavs. That means you have to have your best scorers on the team. Without Ron, were not a defensive team anymore. We don't have that shut down guy. All I ask is do not play Harrsion more the 5 mins a game until he learns to move his feet. He is useless defensively.

ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 05:06 PM
No, because Foster just isn't physical enough to help JO absorb all that abuse. Foster and JO are a bad combination together. Oh yeah, the fabled 61 win season where Foster and JO started together... Al was on the court with JO much more than Foster was.

Evan_The_Dude
02-01-2006, 05:08 PM
A lot of you guys have a good point about playing Peja at the 2-guard. Defenisvely it's questionable but offensively it's brilliant. I think Jackson would do great in his fecal role off the bench! (LMAO)

Slick Pinkham
02-01-2006, 05:15 PM
In time, I could see Danny smothering PGs like the way Pippen used to smother Mark Jackson.


Now I'm having flashbacks.

Our PG catches the inbounds pass in the backcourt at the FT line and has to BACK his way across the center line because of the pressure.

:cry:

ACK... good thing there was no 8-second rule back then.

ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 05:45 PM
A lot of you guys have a good point about playing Peja at the 2-guard. Defenisvely it's questionable but offensively it's brilliant. I think Jackson would do great in his fecal role off the bench! (LMAO)

I don't know about brilliant, but I'd love to expiriment with (offensively speaking, of course) Peja in the Reggie role and Danny in the Jalen, circa 2000, role. Minus the broken plays, of course. I'm just talking about his versatility and how using double and triple screens for Reggie errrr Peja could really open it up for him.

Eindar
02-01-2006, 06:07 PM
Peja isn't Reggie. He's almost as good a shooter, but he's not nearly as quick with or without the ball. He would really struggle to beat his defender around 3 screens, and, more importantly, couldn't keep that pace up nearly long enough to be effective. He'd be spent by halftime. There's a reason Reggie and Rip Hamilton are rail thin and no body fat. They're marathon runners, not sprinters.

Moses
02-01-2006, 06:17 PM
I think Granger could probably play the 2 based on the sole purpose of defense.

Diesel_81
02-02-2006, 02:02 AM
Count me in as wanting to see Peja at the shooting guard position and Granger at three. I would love to see how opposing coaches deal with a 6'10 shooting guard in Peja and a 6'10 small forward in Granger. I think we could pose a ton of mismatches for opposing defenses. On the other end of the floor I want Granger guarding the better perimeter player to begin with. If were facing Kobe or Ray Allen I want Granger on them the whole night and Peja will defend the small forward position. I really don't think it will be that big of a problem.

#31
02-02-2006, 07:21 AM
Playing SG doesn't mean you have to play SG offensively and defensively. Look at Tayshaun Prince. He plays SF for the Pistons but he frequently guards SGs like Kobe. Danny can do the same. He certainly has the Speed.

Exactly! I dont know where these guys got the "if you are SG then u must guard only SGs". Peja is perfect for a SG on Offense, he will maybe score even more points by shooting over the smaller defenders.. on Defense he can defend SFs/PFs or even SGs if its a slow SG... and daaaamn it will create problems / mismatches for the Opposing team!

So i say YES, put DG at SF and Peja at SG!! But if you want me to be honest, no matter what you people say and deep inside YOU KNOW IT... Danny would fit even better than Peja at SG, Offensively and Defensively, still i would love to see Peja at SG and Danny at SF because of the mismatches.

Unclebuck
02-02-2006, 08:14 AM
Niether DG or Peja can really play shooting guard. Making Granger play there will take him too far away from the basket where his shot blocking and rebounding is a huge plus for the Pacers. Granger is a small forard who can play power forward in certain situations.

Peja is really only a small forward, who would not be able to defend shooting guards. Peja can play shooting guard offensively

beast23
02-02-2006, 10:56 AM
Once it was certain that we would trade for Peja, I had suggested that Peja play shooting guard in a couple of different threads.

I can’t say I really got blasted for it, but I didn’t have anyone agree with the notion, either.

I think that most would agree that trading Artest would eventually cause more change in our roster than just the original 1-for-1 trade. You don’t lose that much all-around skill without being forced to compensate for it in other ways.

For example, if the player acquired (Peja) is not even close to Ron in defensive abilities, which he isn’t, then you probably need to replace another weak defender that is currently in the starting lineup… assuming that you wish to maintain anything close to resembling the defensive presence that you had with Ron.

So, in my opinion, our trading is not completed… again assuming that the desire is to retain Peja this summer (if possible).

We have decent defenders either starting or capable of starting: O’Neal, Harrison, Foster, Granger.

Assuming that Peja is going to start, since it would be silly to think otherwise, the best defensive lineup we can put on the court would probably be Foster, O’Neal, Granger and AJ to go along with Peja.

I think most would agree that AJ makes a pretty decent backup PG, but probably should not be the starting PG, at least not on a long-term basis. So, assuming that we are able to re-sign Peja, I believe that trading Tinsley and possibly Jackson for a starting quality PG is the long-term solution.

With four other quality defenders in the lineup of O’Neal, Harrison/Foster, Granger, Peja and <new PG>, the overall team defense will help cover any problems that Peja might have in guarding his man, whether at SG or SF.

Diesel_81
02-03-2006, 01:52 AM
Niether DG or Peja can really play shooting guard. Making Granger play there will take him too far away from the basket where his shot blocking and rebounding is a huge plus for the Pacers. Granger is a small forard who can play power forward in certain situations.

Peja is really only a small forward, who would not be able to defend shooting guards. Peja can play shooting guard offensively

Granger needs to defend the best perimeter wing player every night he's on the floor, whether that is T-Mac, Lebron, Kobe, Allen or any other elite sg/sf. He has a chance to become a lock down defender and I hope we use him in that role.

Pacerized
02-03-2006, 09:16 PM
I don't see a logjam problem. The solution is to do the same thing we did with Ron/JO/Harrington. Only this time it will be Peja/Croshere/Granger (in no particular order). Granger can easily come off the bench and be a 30 minute 6th man without much difficulty.

The difficulty will be in the coaching and the team adjusting to the different styles of play.


I agree, I don't care if Granger never starts. He'll earn his playing time in the next few years, and he'll contribute along the way. Why would we want to force him into a role he's not ready for?

BlueNGold
02-03-2006, 09:53 PM
Niether DG or Peja can really play shooting guard. Making Granger play there will take him too far away from the basket where his shot blocking and rebounding is a huge plus for the Pacers. Granger is a small forard who can play power forward in certain situations.

Peja is really only a small forward, who would not be able to defend shooting guards. Peja can play shooting guard offensively

Unfortunately, against many teams, I have to agree with this assessment. DG's shot blocking and rebounding will only become more important as he gets physically stronger and more experienced. He can be good at defending most SG's...and although he is quick, he may not be quick enough to adequately guard players like Rip and DWade...but who can? His strength is clearly SF.

Now, Peja is a great player who adds more to team play than can be captured statistically. It is unfortunate he cannot be on the floor 40 min. every game with Granger. In games where we go small, it will work. Also, in games with a bigger SG...like the Lakers...or Milwaukee...it will work....but I don't like them both on the floor against Detroit. I guess we will see tomorrow.

denyfizle
02-03-2006, 10:12 PM
it's too early to assess this. it's wait and see for me.

Slick Pinkham
02-03-2006, 10:26 PM
from espn on the Jalen Rose/AD trade:

[The Raptors] need to make a splashy acquisition or two to show Bosh that he would be wise to sign a long-term extension before next season...perhaps sharpshooting free agent-to-be Peja Stojakovic, a move that would be well-received by Toronto's expansive Serbian community as well.


Okay our Serbian friends on the forum.

We need you to move to Indy!

;)

rexnom
02-03-2006, 10:35 PM
Niether DG or Peja can really play shooting guard. Making Granger play there will take him too far away from the basket where his shot blocking and rebounding is a huge plus for the Pacers. Granger is a small forard who can play power forward in certain situations.

Peja is really only a small forward, who would not be able to defend shooting guards. Peja can play shooting guard offensively

I originally made the point that Danny can defend the perimeter much like Tayshaun Prince. However, I am starting to see the logic of this point as well. I think Danny can play the 2 defensively, just not all the time. Danny is not exactly like Tayshaun. I think it's easy to make that comparison but I think that defensively Danny can be of more help if he can help rebound and block as well. I think he is perfect for guarding players like LeBron and McGrady however...or at least he will be. For now, dealing with this the way we dealt with the Ron/Al/J.O. situation during the 61-win season may be the best. For now Danny is not going to be asking for a starting spot. When we no longer can contain him on the bench, he'll be good enough to fit in somewhere, somehow.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
02-03-2006, 11:25 PM
Longjam at SF?

Are you proposing we have some sort of dunk-from-the-freethrow line contest between Danny and Peja to see who gets the start?

Bball
02-04-2006, 03:58 AM
Does anyone who thought Bender could be a SG think that Peja can't?

I think Peja would stand a better chance at SG than Bender ever would've... even sans knee problems.

But I'm not sold on the proposition until I see it experimented with.

Which raises the question(s): Are the games now like preseason games where we experiment with stuff like that or are these 'playoff' games where every game counts and we have to throw the kitchen sink at the game (as long as we stick to some formula) to win each and every game ('the system' or 'next year' be damned...?)?


-Bball

ChicagoJ
02-04-2006, 09:13 AM
Longjam at SF?

Are you proposing we have some sort of dunk-from-the-freethrow line contest between Danny and Peja to see who gets the start?

Clever.

I mean, I don't know what youre talking about. ;)