PDA

View Full Version : I think I finaly get some of the thinking on this board.



Ragnar
01-31-2006, 09:43 PM
I have been trying to figure out the hate for Jamaal and to some extent for Brad. Now I know Brad is a former Pacer so there are a certain percentage of you who will hate him just because of that. While they are here you like them once they are gone you never liked them to begin with.

But the hate for Jamaal has had me confused untill tonight.

I think for whatever reason any player who is clearly important to the team has a injury filled season some of the people on here start to hate them because of how much the team clearly misses that player.

The hate has not been there as much for Jermaine because our record with or without Jermaine is not that different.

However with Jamaal its dramatic. Everyone can see the Pacers are better with Jamaal than without. But since he has had a lot of injuries the last couple of years (mainly from one mis-diagnosed injury) and since he came back this year before he should have leading to him being de activated again you think we should trade him.

Now I will be the first to say that if you can get a player who is as talented but is never injured then you should trade the injured player for the healthy one. But to trade a very very good player for a scrub is foolish and is the path we have been on since the Brad Miller trade.

Is that it? are the Tinsley haters capable of that sort of introspection? Clearly Jamaal is a huge huge huge upgrade over Sarunas, who in turn is a huge huge huge upgrade over AJ.

On the AJ/Jamaal front. Why are so many of you who dont think Rick has treated Jamaal like crap saying Rick is treating Sarunas like crap? Why is it you can see that Rick is bonkers to start AJ over Sarunas but yet in the same posts say Sarunas should start over Jamaal?

SoupIsGood
01-31-2006, 10:03 PM
Tinsley's injuries make him no better than AJ or Sarunas. We need a starting caliber PG, badly.

Bball
01-31-2006, 10:28 PM
I'll grant you I have some questions about the pecking order and also the team's response to Carlisle.

I can't really take much away from tonight's game. I actually turned away from large portions of it. Whatever we are going to get out of Peja is going to take a while. Artest could drop right into Peja's spot at SAC but we had to make room for Peja and shuffle things. We'd already made allowances for being without Artest as our starting SF. That kind of changing is obviously not going to go smoothly after only 3 practices.

And Rick isn't likely to use the most obvious lineups and rotations anyway... at least not for a while. As I've said, Rick always does the obvious thing... it just takes him several games to do it.

And it looks like Pollard might be part of the plans again. ...Or maybe it's the lack of Foster...

Totally a hodge podge right now. It's going to take time.

-Bball

SoThenRobbieSaid
01-31-2006, 11:06 PM
Ragnar - thank you. Excellent points.

For the last couple of years, Ron was an every now and then difference maker. Jermaine could step up and have a huge game, which would lead us to a win, but he wasn't really the sole provider. Until last season, Reggie was a shooter. He WILLED us through games last year, and it was one heck of a ride. But...

THE PACERS SUCCESS DEPENDS ON NO ONE MORE THAN TINSLEY.

Capital letters show emphasis, right?

And for the last time, although it seems like something new all the time, these aren't rolled ankles!!! He's got a torn biceps muscle in his shooting arm, plus whatever's going on in the elbow...last year, no doctor on our staff knew what was wrong with his foot, etc. Jamaal runs this team - I think there are so many Jamaal haters because we all truly know that our chances of winning without significantly decrease without him in the lineup.

Our PG rotation is what we have to work with, and right now, they're trying to make the most of it.

Blue & Gold, no matter what.

indytoad
01-31-2006, 11:17 PM
THE PACERS SUCCESS DEPENDS ON NO ONE MORE THAN TINSLEY.

And that's the problem. That's almost as bad as our success depending on Ron or Stephen. A team can't revolve around unreliable players and consistently accomplish anything.

IndyToad
Jiggle it a little

Los Angeles
01-31-2006, 11:25 PM
Tinsley.

Does he play for the Pacers?

Sometimes.



O'Neal.

Does he play for the Pacers?

Sometimes.


Bender.

Does he play for the Pacers?

Hardly ever.


Artest.

Does he play for the Pacers?

He hardly ever did, and doesn't any more.

I wish I could say that about Tinsley, O'Neal and Bender.

They all had their five years.

List all of the circumstances - laden with all the excuses all you want. It won't change the fact that time's up on this "experiment". Nuff said.

18to88
02-01-2006, 12:26 AM
I like Tinsley a lot. He is a great basketball player. The injuries get real annoying but the guy is a complete dick in person.

Pacersfan46
02-01-2006, 10:38 AM
It's amazing what happens to your perceived value to a team when you haven't played for almost an entire season.

Jamaal isn't that great. Even when he plays all the time. Am I the only one who can remember him trying to get too fancy? Trying to "take it to" the opposing point guard in a game of 1 on 1, because he was embarrassed or "disrespected" by something his couterpart did? Am I the only one who remembers those 20 or 25 game long funks he gets in? Yes, he plays like an All-Star for a long stretch, but he also plays like crap for equally long periods of time.

Even when he isn't injured, he's inconsistant, overly fancy, and prone to getting into a one on one match with the other PG.

Even when he's healthy I want him gone.

ChicagoJ
02-01-2006, 11:29 AM
A lot of that started last season, when he had to step into being the #2 or #3 option offensively, and then discovered that he could score *at will* many nights in the NBA.

Some of the "player development" in Ron's absence last season probably caused more harm than good. Fred Jones is still a ballhog, too, and that's why he's better coming off the bench as a spark than starting. Prior to last season, these guys didn't know they could "light it up" and were willing to play their roles. Now they're confused - what is my role? And should I be deferring for the team or setting myself up for a big contract?

I don't see him as a malcontent. I think he's lost. That could still be 100% his fault. But he's confused, and trying to reconcile all of it on the fly.

Bball's Humpty Dumpty example works well here. We've no longer got the same pass-first PG. He can still do that, sure. But we've shown Jamaal that he can get to the rim and score, and he wants to do that, too.

I said several times last season that when Ron and Jack returned, they'd need to become the third and fourth options behind JO and Tinsley. Too bad options #1 and #2 keep breaking down, for whatever reason.