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Peck
01-30-2006, 03:52 AM
Did Bird even consider any of this when he was thinking about putting together the team this year, ie. when he signed Saras?

This is a real problem folks because A.J. was one of the leaders on the bench & if he is now discontent with his role (which he obviously is) then we may need to look to do something else.

They may need to move A.J., I hope not cause I like him but we need to be rid of all of the poison right now.

One key to all of this though is one thing, the players seem less & less willing to support Carlisle.


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/SPORTS04/601300374/1088

Johnson finds role frequently changing
Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com
Anthony Johnson could only shrug his shoulders because he didn't know.

Next game

Who: Pacers (21-21) at Wizards (20-22).
When: 7 p.m. Tuesday.
TV: WTTV-4.
Radio: WIBC-1070 AM.

The Indiana Pacers point guard was asked if he knew what his role was with the team.
Starting point guard? Starting shooting guard? Backup point guard? Situational player?
"I don't know; every day it's a different situation," he said with a half smirk.
It was just a week ago Johnson slowly walked off the court in Atlanta after being taken out of the game. Johnson's leisurely stroll caused the Pacers to pick up a technical for having six players on the court. Then he was the only player not to play the next night in Cleveland in the Pacers' 30-point blowout loss.
Now Johnson is back starting at point guard in place of the injured Jamaal Tinsley with the possibility of keeping the position if he plays well.
"It's definitely confusing at times with what's going on," Johnson said. "I was playing well, we were playing well as a team and winning ball games. Then Jamaal was good enough to play and I went from starting to starting at shooting guard to not playing to starting again now.
"I guess it's really hard to be consistent when you're in and out of the lineup. It started last summer with all the hoopla when Sarunas (Jasikevicius) signed here. But when Jamaal is out, I find myself starting. Go figure. All I can do is go out and be professional."
Johnson thought he solidified his role with the team at the end of last season, his second with Indiana. The ninth-year veteran had a career year -- averaging 8.4 points and 4.8 assists in 63 games -- and was an important part to the Pacers' run to the playoffs.
Things got cloudy for him when the Pacers signed Jasikevicius, leaving Johnson wondering where he fit. Johnson began the season as the third point guard, but a found a way onto the court when Jasikevicius struggled early, Tinsley was injured or by starting at shooting guard.
Johnson is averaging 6.9 points and 3.6 assists in 36 games, including 20 starts this season.
"I'm sure it's been a challenge for him working through a lot of different scenarios," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said. "We have to look at the situation and say we have to do whatever we can to get it on track. He's in a situation where he's starting for us now. He's an important guy to this team."
Got to play

It's pretty simple for Pacers center Scot Pollard.
The best therapy for his ailing back is constant motion. That means being on the court and not sitting on the bench.
Pollard said his back, which caused him to miss nine games, has responded well after Friday's game against Cleveland. He was supposed to play only six minutes to start each half against the Cavaliers, but the team decided he could go longer because he wasn't having problems.
"Motion is my biggest therapy," Pollard said. "I can't play 48 minutes a game, but I also can't play zero because if I do, then I have to do something before and after. . . . We have to find a nice middle ground and hopefully that works into Rick's plans."
Injury update

Center Jeff Foster, who missed Friday's game, was held out of contact drills in practice Sunday. Carlisle said he hopes Foster can practice today and play Tuesday at Washington.

NorCal_Pacerfan
01-30-2006, 04:19 AM
Is anyone surprised? We knew this was an issue the day Sarunas was signed. What would you do if you were coach? You've got Tinsley who is injured all the time, in and out of the rotation. Then you've got this Runi guy, a NBA rookie brought in by Bird, who you've got to play. And then you have AJ, who has been knocked around like a pinball.

If it were up to me, I would find a way to trade Tinsley and I'd keep Runi and AJ. Tinsley can be a selfish PG at times, and he can try to take over a game in the fourth, and if he's not hitting, well, it can look ugly. At least AJ is a solid backup who is generally unselfish. Anyway, I think it's time for Tinsley to move on - that's my 2 cents anyway.

Lithfan
01-30-2006, 04:23 AM
All PG are not happy.
Both Saras and Johnson hate playing at SG out of their natural position.
What is interesting that Johnson himself is suprised that he is starting instead of Saras when Tinsley is hurt!!! I think this sying tells us that he is more comfortable coming off the bench.
All situation is not natural - having 4 PG while 3 of them are of starting quality is not good. That was probably done keeping in mind Tinsley's constant absense.
I think this situation will continue this season, untill Tinsley will become tradeable. Saras was brought here to be PG in 2,33 players rotation (Tinsley 33%) . For the first year he is playing 20 min with starting in mind for the next, when Tinsley will be traded and AJ will move to back-up role or share starting PG spot with Saras.
If no additional PG was signed in the summer, AJ would start and Gill substitute. Do you think that would have improved current situation?

DeS
01-30-2006, 04:49 AM
AJ wants a permanent pg starter role? Why the guy is complaining that he deserves something better after some succesful games? Did he forgot what hepened after Nets game? I like AJ after some of his bad games - at the time he is playing more carefuly and brings more to the floor.
BTW, I'm still owndering - why AJ is (and will be) starting. Although I am a Saras fan, I have no problems at all with Saras of the bench. It's just interesting for me:
1) Do Rick wants fresh Saras down the stretch?
2) Do Rick wants kind of a "come back" option from the bench?
3) Is Saras playing as horrible that he will be plain minus as a starter?
4) Is Rick not playing Saras as starter because of the Saras-Tins contraversy? (i.e. Rick said Tins that he will not start Saras)
5) Is Rick not playing Saras as starter because of the Saras-AJ contraversy?
6) Does Saras not fit to the starting lineup (do we have some?)

Bball
01-30-2006, 04:56 AM
I'm just going to assume this is the Pacers being the Pacers. We bring in a 4th PG and then don't have to cajones to complete whatever the plan was. Sometimes it's called "patience" in Pacerland.

I'm going to assume there had to be a plan of some sort. Surely they didn't think that having 4 pg's, especially with one like Tinsley, is going to work???

I've believed all along Tinsley was supposed to be the odd man out altho several have disagreed and declared it to be AJ. Either way, why do we have 4 pgs?

Maybe the plan all along was to deal with this year however it shook out until Tinsley's BYC status was gone.... IOW, Bird didn't want to risk losing Saras to another team but would've preferred to sign him next summer... Altho I'm doubting that was the plan.

Sometimes I wonder how much TPTB work the phones and how much it's more a matter of they only answer the phones?

-Bball

Bball
01-30-2006, 05:04 AM
AJ wants a permanent pg starter role? )

I'm not sure that is it... He probably just wants a 'secure' (read: consistent) role.

I think Tinsley's a cancer anyway... but even IF he had a decent (Bender style) demeanor IMHO it's still a cancerous situation when a player is out as much as Tinsley. He can't keep getting injured, coming back, getting injured, back to the bench, etc.... and each time having his spot saved for him. It shouldn't work that way. It's not fair to the rest of the team.

He's not 'that' good in the first place and even if he was, you can't keep jerking the rest of the team around to make room for a player like that.

Tinsley should be relegated to the bench, required to earn his spot back in practice (as he proves he's healthy) and he waits for an opening, and he should be on the trading block while he's sitting and hopefully healing.

I don't have the patience that TPTB apparently do.

-Bball

Will Galen
01-30-2006, 06:03 AM
What I'm thinking is Bird and Walsh brought in Peja, and Bird seems to really like him. However, Peja can opt out of the last year of his contract.

If this team is still full of poison they better get rid of it by the deadline or Peja will more than likely bolt.

I think trading Jax and Tins would go a long way in solving most problems.

sixthman
01-30-2006, 06:05 AM
As often injured as Tins has been, I'm not sure that any team would even trade an expiring contract for him.

Pacesetter
01-30-2006, 06:39 AM
There's no reason to feel badly for AJ, he's gettin paid. When Sarunas has been on the court he creates. AJ does in spurts, therein is the reason why AJ should come off the bench. If AJ is really concerned about the team, and not AJ then he'll accept whatever role he gets and work harder on establishing the starting role. We'll know when a player is unhappy who will be the first to break the story. :rolleyes:

stew
01-30-2006, 08:15 AM
""It's definitely confusing at times with what's going on," Johnson said. "I was playing well, we were playing well as a team and winning ball games. Then Jamaal was good enough to play and I went from starting to starting at shooting guard to not playing to starting again now.
"I guess it's really hard to be consistent when you're in and out of the lineup. It started last summer with all the hoopla when Sarunas (Jasikevicius) signed here. But when Jamaal is out, I find myself starting. Go figure. All I can do is go out and be professional."


johnson got a point here...

When Tinsley got hurt, AJ started and is playing real well...

Tinsley should not be given the starting spot when he came back.. he should atleast earn it back...

with the way Tinsley have been playing lately, he doesnt deserve even the backup minutes....

NaptownBound
01-30-2006, 08:39 AM
AJ wants a permanent pg starter role?

No, he just wants a role. A consistent role.
Players need to know what their roles are in order to be completely effective.
That's why we've had erratic play at the PG spot all season.
Since that position is the primary ball handler, everyone has been effected by that erratic play.

Fool
01-30-2006, 08:43 AM
Has Saras' defense improved enough for him to start at PG yet?

DeS
01-30-2006, 09:18 AM
No, he just wants a role. A consistent role.
Players need to know what their roles are in order to be completely effective.
I understand this. Maybe I'm too suspitious, but I'm not sure he just wants a role. Will he be happy to acquire a consistent backup PG role? Isn't he playing the same tune with Rick (said probably Tins will not be back soon as a starter) while moving Tins out of the starters? Or is he in such a way explaining his inefficiency (in last games)?

rabid
01-30-2006, 09:23 AM
No, he just wants a role. A consistent role.

Exactly. I think this is what some of you are missing. Nowhere in that story did AJ say he absolutely has to be the starting PG. He just might want to know what the hell is going on from game to game.

Sure, you can say the guy should shut up and cash his paychecks, but he's a human being - the situation has to mess with your head after a while. One night you're starting and play well, the next night you're the team's only DNP, the next night you're playing SG, the next night you're the backup PG.

How, as a player, can you be expected to keep any kind of focus or rhythm to your game in such a situation? How do you stay prepared for games? It's tough.
I've actually thought AJ has gotten a bad rap here. Half the board seems to hate him. But, whether or not he's starting material or playing out of position is really a coaching issue. AJ always plays hard, puts in max effort and does what he's asked to do. In fact he works a lot harder than some other players on the team who are considered to be more talented. Honestly, what more do you want from the guy?

naptownmenace
01-30-2006, 09:24 AM
He's not 'that' good in the first place and even if he was, you can't keep jerking the rest of the team around to make room for a player like that.

Tinsley should be relegated to the bench, required to earn his spot back in practice (as he proves he's healthy) and he waits for an opening, and he should be on the trading block while he's sitting and hopefully healing.

I don't have the patience that TPTB apparently do.

-Bball


I totally agree. Whether you like Tinsley or not (I've been begging for a trade for 2 years now), you have to admit that when he returns from the inactive list he should have to earn his starting spot back in practice.

As we've seen, when Tinsley returns from injury he is totally out of sinc with the rest of the team. Don't jerk with the team and bench guys who have been playing well for someone who is both less than 100% and totally out of game playing shape.

naptownmenace
01-30-2006, 09:28 AM
Sure, you can say the guy should shut up and cash his paychecks, but he's a human being - the situation has to mess with your head after a while. One night you're starting and play well, the next night you're the team's only DNP, the next night you're playing SG, the next night you're the backup PG.


I truly think this was Rick's way of punishing AJ for his attitude in Atlanta. However, Rick should let it been known to both AJ and the rest of team that this is why he's being benched. If you're gonna bench a guy you should at least have the guts to tell him to his face he's why he' being benched.

This is one of Rick's and the rest of the coaching staff's biggest weakness - communication with the team.

PacerMan
01-30-2006, 09:29 AM
I didn't read anything even remotely suggesting we need to move him. EVERY bench player in the NBA thinks they should be playing. Every guy in the league was THE star most of their career.
Nothing new here. Or to be concerned about.
He's getting starts now so he has his chance to prove himself again.

NaptownBound
01-30-2006, 09:32 AM
I understand this. Maybe I'm too suspitious, but I'm not sure he just wants a role. Will he be happy to acquire a consistent backup PG role? Isn't he playing the same tune with Rick (said probably Tins will not be back soon as a starter) while moving Tins out of the starters? Or is he in such a way explaining his inefficiency (in last games)?

I think he would be happy being the backup behind Jamaal... after all, that's why the Pacers signed him in the first place. Also, I think AJ knows that he's a backup PG in this league. He doesn't seem like one to overstate his own ability, he should know what he is.

However, when Jamaal is out, I believe AJ should start in my opinion. Yeah, we brought Saras in, but Saras can't keep opposing PGs out of the lane consistently. He just doesn't have the footspeed to do so.

DeS
01-30-2006, 09:39 AM
Exactly. I think this is what some of you are missing... Nowhere in that story did AJ say he absolutely has to be the starting PG. He just might want to know what the hell is going on from game to game....

Sure, you can say the guy should shut up and cash his paychecks, but he's a human being - the situation has to mess with your head after a while. One night you're starting and play well, the next night you're the team's only DNP, the next night you're playing SG, the next night you're the backup PG.

How, as a player, can you be expected to keep any kind of focus or rhythm to your game in such a situation? How do you stay prepared for games? It's tough.
I've actually thought AJ has gotten a bad rap here. Half the board seems to hate him. But, whether or not he's starting material or playing out of position is really a coaching issue. AJ always plays hard, puts in max effort and does what he's asked to do. In fact he works a lot harder than some other players on the team who are considered to be more talented. Honestly, what more do you want from the guy?

Well, I agree with You that AJ plays hard and that he (like Saras) needs to play in his position permanently and that You couldn't expect more from him...
Just I see the trend. After a successful Nets game AJ said that he deserves more minutes and after that Rick played him in horrible games (then he was benched for a long period). Now, after Rick comments on Tinsley (and bringing the consistency to the starting lineup) and AJ comments on playing a consistent role I suggest Rick will be playing AJ and only several horrible games could change the starting PG spot.

Pacesetter
01-30-2006, 09:42 AM
.... "hoopla" ....

Well, atleast we know how he feels about Sarunas signing!

MagicRat
01-30-2006, 09:53 AM
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Peck
""It's definitely confusing at times with what's going on," Johnson said. "I was playing well, we were playing well as a team and winning ball games. Then Jamaal was good enough to play and I went from starting to starting at shooting guard to not playing to starting again now.
"I guess it's really hard to be consistent when you're in and out of the lineup. It started last summer with all the hoopla when Sarunas (Jasikevicius) signed here. But when Jamaal is out, I find myself starting. Go figure. All I can do is go out and be professional."



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


johnson got a point here...

When Tinsley got hurt, AJ started and is playing real well...

Tinsley should not be given the starting spot when he came back.. he should atleast earn it back...

with the way Tinsley have been playing lately, he doesnt deserve even the backup minutes....

Seems to me his point was to take a shot at Sarunas, not Jamaal.

"It started last summer with all the hoopla when Sarunas (Jasikevicius) signed here. But when Jamaal is out, I find myself starting. Go figure."

He sounds bitter at the Sarunas signing and is sort of rubbing the Pacers' nose in it because after all of the "Welcome Winner" stuff on Pacers.com and Sarunas head t-shirts being sold in the gift shop, Sarunas can't even start ahead of him.

So, he's taking shots at teammates and one time at a signing at Circle Center I attended, Jamaal and Jeff showed up on time but AJ was about 10 minutes late and wasn't terribly friendly. He is a cancer and must be removed....

(And these guys should stop talking to Mike Wells. He isn't their friend.)

FrenchConnection
01-30-2006, 10:04 AM
Quote:
(And these guys should stop talking to Mike Wells. He isn't their friend.)

When will they learn! If he had concerns, he should have gone to management, not talked to Mike "destroyer" Wells.

Black Sox
01-30-2006, 10:13 AM
AJ has the worst attitude on the team since the start of the season. He is always pouting. I understand his frustration with everything that has happened the last season and this season, but thats not how winners act.

NaptownBound
01-30-2006, 10:15 AM
(And these guys should stop talking to Mike Wells. He isn't their friend.)


Mike Wells is doing his job. He's not the problem with this team.
His job is to get the story. If guys are volunteering info and interviews, he's gonna do his job.

DisplacedKnick
01-30-2006, 10:26 AM
When will they learn! If he had concerns, he should have gone to management, not talked to Mike "destroyer" Wells.

I'm beginning to understand why Pacer reporters wouldn't bother to actually try to get in-depth story and just generate meaningless fluff that doesn't mean squat.

Maybe Monteith isn't such a chicken***** after all - just a product of the Indianapolis environment.

Shade
01-30-2006, 10:32 AM
As you all should well know, I'm not exactly an AJ fan. However, he's dead on concerning this. Rick tries too hard to make each player fit into multiple positions, even when they don't have that ability. Granted, it's not all Rick's fault -- injuries are forcing his hand to an extent. But if there's one thing I've learned, it's that it's infinitely more difficult to play effectively when you don't even know what your role is from game to game.

Harddrive7
01-30-2006, 10:33 AM
I think that I need a break from this team.

Shade
01-30-2006, 10:33 AM
When will they learn! If he had concerns, he should have gone to management, not talked to Mike "destroyer" Wells.

Did you ever consider that they do that only because they voice their dissatisfaction with Rick/Larry/Donnie, and it gets them nowhere?

Not saying it's the right thing to do, but it's understandable.

Indyfan
01-30-2006, 11:18 AM
It seems to me that a lot of us are making the assumption that the players haven't been talked to or been able to talk to TPTB or coach, but we don't know that. If Rick benched AJ because of what happened in Atlanta, I am sure AJ was told why. It is not Rick's style to come out publically about his players and speak about them in the press.

Mike Wells is only interested in his personal career, he has said he is not a fan of the Pacers, and he has done enough damage by his articles and the way he twists things around in them to show he isn't out for the team.

FrenchConnection
01-30-2006, 11:24 AM
I'm beginning to understand why Pacer reporters wouldn't bother to actually try to get in-depth story and just generate meaningless fluff that doesn't mean squat.

Maybe Monteith isn't such a chicken***** after all - just a product of the Indianapolis environment.

I am not blaming Mike for all this. He does his job and reports what the players tell him. I just think that they players need to stop airing their complaints in the press and work out their problem in-house.

However, all of this does bring up another point. Did Bird think about the damage to team chemestry that bringing in Saras would cause? How about Peja? These problems are magnified by the lack of leadership on the team at the present moment, and unless something is done to remake the roster I think that we will continue to have these problems.

NaptownBound
01-30-2006, 11:32 AM
Mike Wells is only interested in his personal career, he has said he is not a fan of the Pacers, and he has done enough damage by his articles and the way he twists things around in them to show he isn't out for the team.

What are we talking about?! (c) Tony K.

It's not Mike Wells job to support the Pacers or be a fan of the team. It's his job to report the daily news of the team. He hasn't done anything to cause any damage. The team is in disarray, so that's what he's reporting. If he was the Pistons or Mavs beat writer, he'd be talking about how great their seasons are going and being title contenders. The fact that our team has underachieved when we had title aspirations, coupled with the whole Artest experience over the last few years and a .500 record, this is the type of reporting we're going to get. His job is not to root for the team, he's not an employee of the Pacers. Y'all need to get over it.

able
01-30-2006, 11:42 AM
another way to "read" the "interview":

Mike Wells: AJ! you don't look so happy, getting confused at what you actually are on the team,
starting point guard? Starting shooting guard? Backup point guard? Situational player?

AJ :"Naw not really, but you don't know; every day is a different situation,"

he said with a tired smile after practise.

It was just a week ago Johnson slowly walked off the court in Atlanta after being taken out of the game. Johnson's leisurely stroll caused the Pacers to pick up a technical for having six players on the court. Then he was the only player not to play the next night in Cleveland in the Pacers' 30-point blowout loss.
Now Johnson is back starting at point guard in place of the injured Jamaal Tinsley with the possibility of keeping the position if he plays well.

Mike Wells: It must at times confuse the hell out of you guys, all those injuries, different line-ups?

AJ: "It's definitely confusing at times with what's going on,"

Mike Wells: You were playing well, then Jamaal came back and you don't start anymore and the next game you get a DNP-CD, how come?

AJ: "I was playing well, we were playing well as a team and winning ball games. Then Jamaal was good enough to play and I went from starting to starting at shooting guard to not playing to starting again now, but that's the way it is.

Mike Wells "I guess it's really hard to be consistent when you're in and out of the lineup.

AJ: Yeah sometimes.

Mike Wells: Didn't it start last summer with all the hoopla when Sarunas (Jasikevicius) signed here? Then Jamaal is out, You find yourself starting. Go figure.

AJ: "All I can do is go out and be professional."

Johnson must have thought he solidified his role with the team at the end of last season, his second with Indiana. The ninth-year veteran had a career year -- averaging 8.4 points and 4.8 assists in 63 games -- and was an important part to the Pacers' run to the playoffs.
Things got cloudy for him when the Pacers signed Jasikevicius, leaving Johnson wondering where he fit. Johnson began the season as the third point guard, but a found a way onto the court when Jasikevicius struggled early, Tinsley was injured or by starting at shooting guard.
Johnson is averaging 6.9 points and 3.6 assists in 36 games, including 20 starts this season.

Mike Wells: Rick, it must be and have been a challenge to AJ the way he has to change his role every time?
RC: "I'm sure it's been a challenge for him working through a lot of different scenarios," "We have to look at the situation and say we have to do whatever we can to get it on track. He's in a situation where he's starting for us now. He's an important guy to this team."

grace
01-30-2006, 11:51 AM
If there is a member of the Pacers who is actually happy with the way things are going I have a problem with that.

waxman
01-30-2006, 11:53 AM
What AJ doesn't get is that Sarunas was brought in... partially anyway... as an insurance policy for the injured Jamaal, and to upgrade our perimeter shooting,,,, not necessarily as a replacement for himself.

The reason AJ starts when Jamaal is out, is because Carlisle & Co. wanted Sarunas to get comfortable running the second unit, and wanted to be consistant with his role. So when Jamaal was healthy it wouldn't be a constant transition in and out of the starting lineup for the rook.

Carlisle probably thought AJ was the veteran, mature and versitile enough to handle the constantly changing roll. Not unlike a utility player in baseball. Its the roll he had last year...he shouldn't be suprised or upset, but should feel fortunate that he has the opportunity....because if Jamaal could ever stay healthy :laugh:... AJ would get Eddie Gill's minutes.

Moses
01-30-2006, 12:19 PM
If there is a member of the Pacers who is actually happy with the way things are going I have a problem with that.
Quoted for truth.

Dukins
01-30-2006, 12:58 PM
He needs to shut his piehole. Before he came to the pacers, he was wondering where his next job would come from. The pacers pay him a little money and now he wants to bite the hand that feeds him and gave him a chance. **** off AJ

Sorry if that was a bit harsh, but he needs to be professional and do whatever job they tell him to do.

MagicRat
01-30-2006, 01:01 PM
Mike Wells is doing his job. He's not the problem with this team.
His job is to get the story. If guys are volunteering info and interviews, he's gonna do his job.
I never said he shouldn't do his job. The guys don't have to make it so easy for him, though.......

http://www.readyayeready.com/posters/loose-lips-sink-ships-tn.jpg

denyfizle
01-30-2006, 01:13 PM
Get rid of AJ, as much as I dislike JT right now, AJ is the one to go. He's playing the best ball of his career and JT is sucking but JT is still the better PG. I don't have problems with EG backing up Runi for now while JT is hurt.

Harmonica
01-30-2006, 01:17 PM
able, a couple of things: If Wells is taking their words out of context, then the players should quickly grow distrustful of him and not grant him interviews. That's what would normally happen. The team would ban together and ice him out. But...if they're being quoted fairly and they continue to grant him interviews, it would appear then that they're using him to openly vent their frustrations. That isn't good.

Los Angeles
01-30-2006, 01:25 PM
I never said he shouldn't do his job. The guys don't have to make it so easy for him, though.......

http://www.readyayeready.com/posters/loose-lips-sink-ships-tn.jpg

I think the hull was already breeched before Wells got the job.

able
01-30-2006, 01:31 PM
able, a couple of things: If Wells is taking their words out of context, then the players should quickly grow distrustful of him and not grant him interviews. That's what would normally happen. The team would ban together and ice him out. But...if they're being quoted fairly and they continue to grant him interviews, it would appear then that they're using him to openly vent their frustrations. That isn't good.
I agree wholeheartedly, on the other hand, some people like being used for what brings them and are all to ready to poke the fire instead of thinking of other people's future interest.

But hmmm did I really change the quotes? or just portrayed them with a slight nuance difference ?

Bball
01-30-2006, 01:36 PM
OMG... We must shoot the messenger!

:rolleyes:

-Bball

Please note: The above post is trying to make a point. Do not take it literally. Thank you.

MagicRat
01-30-2006, 01:37 PM
I think the hull was already breeched before Wells got the job.

Hmmm. I'm going to have to cross-reference Peck's "When did it all go so horribly wrong" thread with Mike Wells' hire date.......:chin:

MagicRat
01-30-2006, 01:38 PM
OMG... We must shoot the messenger!

:rolleyes:

-Bball

Please note: The above post is trying to make a point. Do not take it literally. Thank you.

So you're saying we must shoot AJ?...........:confused:

Arcadian
01-30-2006, 02:19 PM
Wells should report it and AJ shouldn't say it.

Regardless this is hardly news that our pg rotations are screwy. I'm frustrated watching it; I can only imagine what it is like to be playing in it.

Anthem
01-30-2006, 02:20 PM
Hmmm. I'm going to have to cross-reference Peck's "When did it all go so horribly wrong" thread with Mike Wells' hire date.......:chin:
Interesting theory, actually.

Unclebuck
01-30-2006, 02:40 PM
Right or wrong, Rick really only likes to play Saras when Freddie is on the floor. So I think that is one reason why Saras doesn't start.

CableKC
01-30-2006, 02:48 PM
Now that we have another SF in the rotation....I won't mind as much with AJ starting next to SJax and Peja. As long as Carlisle minimizes the # of minutes that AJ plays with Sarunas....I am fine with that.

I like Sarunas playing with Freddie, Granger and Foster. The only problem is that I really think that we should sign another PF to a 10-day contract. Croshere is our only true PF that we have. Despite Granger capable of playing some backup PF minutes.....I don't think that he would be a great fit for the next 2 months.

denyfizle
01-30-2006, 03:00 PM
I think making this article go public is some kind of strategic easing out of AJ from the Pacers. We all know Pacers articles like this are hard to come by unless there's something that's going to happen. I may be a little bit paranoid but it's a known fact that another move is imminent.

Unclebuck
01-30-2006, 03:54 PM
I worry about a lineup of

DH
Cro
Peja
Jax
AJ

What has become of our interior defense. I'm in favor of any lineup or rotation that gets Foster and Granger more minutes.

SoupIsGood
01-30-2006, 04:08 PM
AJ sucks, if he's unhappy he should go shoot pool for a living.

Pacesetter
01-30-2006, 06:56 PM
Mike Wells is doing his job. He's not the problem with this team.
His job is to get the story. If guys are volunteering info and interviews, he's gonna do his job.

I agree wholeheartedly. It'll make it easier to see who's next to ship out!

The trouble with AJ is I don't know of any other team in the NBA where he'd get the starting position. Vern Fleming was better than AJ and Vern never complained about PT as far back as I can remember, and for AJ to step out there just validates a reservation I've had about him for a long time. He gets a chip on his shoulder for what reason?

Coach Carlisle has a problem. As I've heard LB say countless times now, the best players will play. It has to be this way in any system where there's competition. No hard feelings it's just business, and the business is winning games. I'm really disappointed with AJ, I really can't believe he went to the newbie Mike Wells. I mean c'mon AJ. Arrrrgh! I've never been around a Pacers team that had individual players complain as much as some here now does. It's outrageous, and that's NOT what Pacers basketball is about!!!! :mad:

Los Angeles
01-30-2006, 07:01 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. It'll make it easier to see who's next to ship out!

The trouble with AJ is I don't know of any other team in the NBA where he'd get the starting position. Vern Fleming was better than AJ and Vern never complained about PT as far back as I can remember, and for AJ to step out there just validates a reservation I've had about him for a long time. He gets a chip on his shoulder for what reason?

Coach Carlisle has a problem. As I've heard LB say countless times now, the best players will play. It has to be this way in any system where there's competition. No hard feelings it's just business, and the business is winning games. I'm really disappointed with AJ, I really can't believe he went to the newbie Mike Wells. I mean c'mon AJ. Arrrrgh! I've never been around a Pacers team that had individual players complain as much as some here now does. It's outrageous, and that's NOT what Pacers basketball is about!!!! :mad:

To be fair, the big complainers right out of the gate this season were Sarunas and Austin.

Pacesetter
01-30-2006, 07:10 PM
To be fair, the big complainers right out of the gate this season were Sarunas and Austin.

Did Sarunas initiate contact? I've never seen Austin go to the media. That would be masochistic on his part! With Sarunas he mentioned what it's going to take to win ballgames, but AJ came right out complaining about his role, and Sarunas, and that's just wrong! What happens in La Familia, stays in La Familia! Hey, if Sarunas or Austin are whining to the media, then they need pulled off to the side too. There's no excuse to take inside problems to the media. It's weak and self-serving!

Los Angeles
01-30-2006, 07:23 PM
Did Sarunas initiate contact? I've never seen Austin go to the media. That would be masochistic on his part! With Sarunas he mentioned what it's going to take to win ballgames, but AJ came right out complaining about his role, and Sarunas, and that's just wrong! What happens in La Familia, stays in La Familia! Hey, if Sarunas or Austin are whining to the media, then they need pulled off to the side too. There's no excuse to take inside problems to the media. It's weak and self-serving!
I'm not arguing with you there.

Austin Croshere's "This team needs to find some leadership" and the resulting improved play of JO was a perfect example of how many Pacers players have run to the media to make a point with another player or the coaches.

Artest being Artest, when he tries the same method, it royally backfires.

Even Carlisle at the beginning of the season talked about how the chemistry was a "little odd".

But go back to last year: Larry gave an interview and talked about how he hated it when players wore thier headbands up by their hairline. We all knew he was talking about Jackson. Next game: Jackson gets a haircut and lowers his headband.

This passive-aggressive culture has been creating itself for years, and frankly my worst ex-girlfriends were plain spoken hostage negotiators compared to this dysfunctional mess.

Hey Pacers: if you have a problem, don't tell the person you have a problem with, tell a reporter. :rolleyes: .

DeS
01-30-2006, 07:36 PM
Yes, Sarunas did complained once about playing him SG. He said that better he wants to be a backup PG than starting SG (something like that). But he was not taking a shot at any of the teammates. After that some posters told him to shut up and just play the game. He read the posts and did what he was being told to do ;)

Los Angeles
01-30-2006, 07:46 PM
Yes, Sarunas did complained once about playing him SG. He said that better he wants to be a backup PG than starting SG (something like that). But he was not taking a shot at any of the teammates. After that some posters told him to shut up and just play the game. He read the posts and did that he was being told to do ;)
Nope.

At the beginning of the season, Sarunas was publicly criticizing the mental state Pacers team as a whole. It was premature, unnecessary, and frankly uncalled for.

CURSES - twice in one day - I tried to look for that article, but it seems to be another victim of the Bermuda Triangle. :mad:

DeS
01-30-2006, 08:11 PM
At the beginning of the season, Sarunas was publicly criticizing the mental state Pacers team as a whole. It was premature, unnecessary, and frankly uncalled for.
But he was not complaining (kind of "I deserve better team and/or better teammates"). Rick himself told about chemistry problems at the time. Maybe this was realy unnecessary, but it was not aimed at someone (at least I think so).

Los Angeles
01-30-2006, 08:17 PM
But he was not complaining (kind of "I deserve better team and/or better teammates"). Rick himself told about chemistry problems at the time. Maybe this was realy unnecessary, but it was not aimed at someone (at least I think so).
I'm open to the idea that the rest of the team knew who they were talking about in both cases, even if we don't.

McKeyFan
01-30-2006, 08:23 PM
my worst ex-girlfriends were plain spoken hostage negotiators compared to this dysfunctional mess.

That's a good one.

Los Angeles
01-30-2006, 08:28 PM
Not to pull a Ron-Eighty on everyone, but I just re-read that article and find myself suddenly in Able's camp. I don't see Johnson going over the line in this case. In fact, he seems to be giving pretty straight-forward answers about the situation.

DeS
01-30-2006, 08:33 PM
I'm open to the idea that the rest of the team knew who they were talking about in both cases, even if we don't.
But we don't know it - we can only guess and speculate. As with AJ, he's clearly taking a shot at Sarunas, Carlisle, Tinsley, management. I doubt that he specially did this, maybe he just said what was on his tongue. I just hope that this is not a big deal and I :pray: that our team is not as devided as we think.

Peck
01-31-2006, 01:26 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. It'll make it easier to see who's next to ship out!

The trouble with AJ is I don't know of any other team in the NBA where he'd get the starting position. Vern Fleming was better than AJ and Vern never complained about PT as far back as I can remember, and for AJ to step out there just validates a reservation I've had about him for a long time. He gets a chip on his shoulder for what reason?

Coach Carlisle has a problem. As I've heard LB say countless times now, the best players will play. It has to be this way in any system where there's competition. No hard feelings it's just business, and the business is winning games. I'm really disappointed with AJ, I really can't believe he went to the newbie Mike Wells. I mean c'mon AJ. Arrrrgh! I've never been around a Pacers team that had individual players complain as much as some here now does. It's outrageous, and that's NOT what Pacers basketball is about!!!! :mad:


How would you know?

In the past the Pacers were fortunate enough to have a former employee working as the beat writer for the local paper. Never a contrary word was written.

How do you know that we haven't had the same exact problem many times in the past years, yet we just never knew about it because the bunny ran interferance?

I thank God every single day for Mike Wells. I feel as though I have been liberated from some Socialist state where the state controlled the media & I now have access to the truth.

Pacesetter
01-31-2006, 09:06 AM
How would you know?

In the past the Pacers were fortunate enough to have a former employee working as the beat writer for the local paper. Never a contrary word was written.

How do you know that we haven't had the same exact problem many times in the past years, yet we just never knew about it because the bunny ran interferance?

I thank God every single day for Mike Wells. I feel as though I have been liberated from some Socialist state where the state controlled the media & I now have access to the truth.

The problem is that actions speak louder than words. I'd buy into the idea Pacers of old were dejected and sore if their performances reflected that, but most people would agree that those teams played very unselfish ball, and often appeared to enjoy playing with each other, as well as winning. The problem now is these stories are coinciding with a team that has played like dirt. If it quacks like a duck .....

Mike is a good writer, but some of this stuff is creating a pattern, and if able's example is right, then that's a clear indication of a writer leading someone, and surely AJ's smarter than that.

RWB
01-31-2006, 09:32 AM
Mike is a good writer, but some of this stuff is creating a pattern, and if able's example is right, then that's a clear indication of a writer leading someone, and surely AJ's smarter than that.

I've wondered that too? Is Mr. Wells following the Kravitz forumla? Keep stirring and poking it with a stick until you get a reaction.

btowncolt
01-31-2006, 09:40 AM
I've wondered that too? Is Mr. Wells following the Kravitz forumla? Keep stirring and poking it with a stick until you get a reaction.

Still an improvement over, "What? Ron's skipping team flights and faking migraines to miss games? Better report that everything is dandy in Pacerland tomorrow! Nope, no worries here!"

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