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View Full Version : Well, once again Jamaal is out for awhile....



Peck
01-29-2006, 04:03 AM
This is getting comical. Come on guys even those of you that are die hard Jamaal fans have to see that there just comes a point in time where you just can't do this anymore.

Read Rick very very carefully here, he hopes a week but we all better be prepared for him to be out much longer.


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060129/SPORTS04/601290468

Indiana Pacers point guard Jamaal Tinsley will miss at least a week because of the same nagging elbow and biceps injury that caused him to sit out 11 games earlier.

Rather than have Tinsley go in and out of the lineup, the Pacers decided Saturday it would be better to have him remain out until his injury heals.
"He's had this problem in his elbow for over a month and it's not healing," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said. "We're going to hold him out for a while until he's really right. It will be at least a week, with a possibility that it could be significantly longer. We're not going to go on like this, having him in and out of the lineup, thinking he's going to be able to play then not being able to go. It's too tough on everybody."
Tinsley, who has played in only 23 games this season, injured his elbow in the Dec. 27 game at San Antonio. He missed 11 games before coming back Jan. 20. Tinsley shot 27 percent from the field, had 13 turnovers and just 11 assists in four games after returning.
Anthony Johnson likely will start at point guard in Tinsley's absence.
Next game

SwissExpress
01-29-2006, 04:22 AM
Paraphrasing an-already-discussed saying:

Chris Paul's finger to JT's elbow: "d@mn, you are a pu$$y, dude!"

Pingu
01-29-2006, 05:05 AM
Jamaal Bender :banghead:

scar
01-29-2006, 05:11 AM
I hate alll of our point guards.

able
01-29-2006, 06:47 AM
Peck, I'm dissapointed in you.

Normally a well balanced poster, this opinion is not that well balanced, let's face a fact here, he came back to early once again, and it did little or no good to the injury, just like Jermaine, in fact with Jermaine it was even worse, his playing with a sprained ankle leads to him being out 8 more weeks.

We don't question the people reponsible, but the players, do you honestly believe they like to be injured?

As for Tinsley;
Tins and injured, I'm getting rather tired of people copying what one writes and another assumes to be true and thus we have Tinsley by now in the morgue, playing 1 out of 20 games a season.

The 61 win season (03-04) he was injured for 1 whole week in the beginning, KA got his job without much discussion, hence he did not play a great number of games, he was not injured, he was not happy, but instead of pouting he got himself more then ready to take over when we were 30 games into the season.
Since he played 52 (regular season) games that year, we can assume that he was healthy most of the time
He got injured in the playoffs, played while severely injured nonetheless.

in 04-05 (THE season) he played 36 of the first 41 and in the last 27 of those he averaged 19.4 pts and 8.3 Ast
In "the game" on 11/19/04 v Detroit he set the record for most steals by a Pacers player in 25 years; 8
He then got a foot injury which was GROSSLY mis interpreted by the med staff of the Pacers (MIS-diagnosed) which cost him most of the rest of the season, with some limp attempts to come back, came back against the Celtics and won that series for us, though still not healthy by a long shot.
This year had a bout of the flu (who hasn't on the Pacers? ) and now comes back from a TORN BICEPS, not exactly a re-occurring injury but simply one cause by someone hanging on his arm, oh how weird, JO nearly raptured his shoulder like that.
Comes back again premature, because he's needed so badly, plays a few games that show clearly he is not ready yet and what is now clear? It only aggrevated matters, so let's blame Tins.

owl
01-29-2006, 06:53 AM
Rajon Rondo???

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rajonrondo.asp

What is really strange is the guy averages 7.3 rebounds a game. He had
19 against Iowa.

Anyone see him play?

I believe point guard is the Pacers second greatest need after shooting
guard. How about a JJ Redick or Adam Morrison. A better rebounding,
shot blocking center would be nice. Shelden Williams maybe.


owl

Doug in CO
01-29-2006, 07:23 AM
Peck, I'm dissapointed in you.

Normally a well balanced poster, this opinion is not that well balanced, let's face a fact here, he came back to early once again, and it did little or no good to the injury, just like Jermaine, in fact with Jermaine it was even worse, his playing with a sprained ankle leads to him being out 8 more weeks.

We don't question the people reponsible, but the players, do you honestly believe they like to be injured?

As for Tinsley;
Tins and injured, I'm getting rather tired of people copying what one writes and another assumes to be true and thus we have Tinsley by now in the morgue, playing 1 out of 20 games a season.

The 61 win season (03-04) he was injured for 1 whole week in the beginning, KA got his job without much discussion, hence he did not play a great number of games, he was not injured, he was not happy, but instead of pouting he got himself more then ready to take over when we were 30 games into the season.
Since he played 52 (regular season) games that year, we can assume that he was healthy most of the time
He got injured in the playoffs, played while severely injured nonetheless.

in 04-05 (THE season) he played 36 of the first 41 and in the last 27 of those he averaged 19.4 pts and 8.3 Ast
In "the game" on 11/19/04 v Detroit he set the record for most steals by a Pacers player in 25 years; 8
He then got a foot injury which was GROSSLY mis interpreted by the med staff of the Pacers (MIS-diagnosed) which cost him most of the rest of the season, with some limp attempts to come back, came back against the Celtics and won that series for us, though still not healthy by a long shot.
This year had a bout of the flu (who hasn't on the Pacers? ) and now comes back from a TORN BICEPS, not exactly a re-occurring injury but simply one cause by someone hanging on his arm, oh how weird, JO nearly raptured his shoulder like that.
Comes back again premature, because he's needed so badly, plays a few games that show clearly he is not ready yet and what is now clear? It only aggrevated matters, so let's blame Tins.

Please do not confuse frustrated Pacers fans (Peck, myself, others) with the facts.

hoopsforlife
01-29-2006, 07:52 AM
In other news the sun came up this morning and it rained in Indiana. :reporter:


:lol2:




:peek:

larry
01-29-2006, 08:28 AM
while tins & bender maybe good people, i dont want em on my team. they miss 2 much, period! they may not deserve all the blame but it is what it is.

Bball
01-29-2006, 08:51 AM
The 61 win season (03-04) he was injured for 1 whole week in the beginning, KA got his job without much discussion, hence he did not play a great number of games, he was not injured, he was not happy, but instead of pouting he got himself more then ready to take over when we were 30 games into the season.
Since he played 52 (regular season) games that year, we can assume that he was healthy most of the time
He got injured in the playoffs, played while severely injured nonetheless.




Obviously we didn't sit him out long enough to avoid his injury for the playoffs. ...We could've moved his injury all the way to training camp for the next season if we would've kept him out longer to begin with. :-p

---

At some point, no matter how much we wish otherwise, we have to go with our eyes and head, not our hearts.

-Bball

able
01-29-2006, 09:07 AM
Obviously we didn't sit him out long enough to avoid his injury for the playoffs. ...We could've moved his injury all the way to training camp for the next season if we would've kept him out longer to begin with. :-p

---

At some point, no matter how much we wish otherwise, we have to go with our eyes and head, not our hearts.

-Bball
At some point, no matter how much we dislike certain players, we have to go with hard facts instead of sentiments and opinions, the same hard facts coaches and GM's use, just to remain in what is known as reality and allow for unbiased discussion.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 09:17 AM
Here's a hard fact: Tinsley is hurt. A lot (way more than that other guy). And there's nothing to suggest it's going to change.

able
01-29-2006, 09:29 AM
Hard fact: Injured players on the Pacers at this moment:

Jermaine O'neal
Jeff Foster
Jamaal Tinsley
Jonathan Bender

Playing obviously "not well" or played injured/missed some games due to injury

Scot Pollard
Austin Croshere

There are two options here (basically)

1. The Pacers are damn unlucky by having all these injury prone players, much more then league average
or
2. There is another reason why Pacers players get injured so often

Add to that:
Harrisson out second half last season, several games this year.
Team wide Influenza attacks
Dany Granger missed games and played less in others due to injury

Now continue bashing 1 or 2 players for always being injured, at least we know it is not based on hard facts anymore.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 09:33 AM
Well the fact that a lot of our guys get hurt doesn't change Tinsley's situation. He's the King (after you get the mindset that Bender isn't on this team) of being injury-prone here.

It's always something with him. Flu, sinus problems, ankle problems, foot problems, elbow problems.

DisplacedKnick
01-29-2006, 09:37 AM
What I would like to know is what kind of offseason strength & conditioning program the Pacers have in place and how rigorous they are in holding players too it.

There are just too many players who come up with nagging injuries for me to think they're coming to camp in the shape they should be. It's one thing when a given player consistently hurts the same body part, but when someone like Tinsley can have a bum foot, shoulder, elbow, etc., etc., - or Foster with hip, back and so on, I begin to wonder.

Those guys are still getting paid over the summer - they need to behave that way (I don't KNOW that they don't - the injury pattern is just suspicious).

able
01-29-2006, 09:42 AM
Well the fact that a lot of our guys get hurt doesn't change Tinsley's situation. He's the King (after you get the mindset that Bender isn't on this team) of being injury-prone here.

It's always something with him. Flu, sinus problems, ankle problems, foot problems, elbow problems.
As I said in the first post on this topic here, you are starting to believe your own hype, read it again, read the facts and then decide what you want to portray.

In short;
He had 1 major foot injury that was botched by the Pacers med staff, he had a hamstring in the playoffs, played with it and after being grabbed on the ankle and while already limping from the hamstring he hurt hte ankle, he did not miss games because of that ankle.
He has/had torn bicpes and obviously came back to soon, bursitis would not be a strange injury as a result of that and combined with the "overuse" to get back the strength in the arm.

But then again, why would we consider feeling sympathy for our injured players, better we trade everyone that sits out more then 3 games a year.

What I stated in my last post in this thread was that there is an option that our med staff in conjunction with out conditioning staff is not that good, the likelyhood of having so many injured players that are all "injury prone" is not that big as opposed to the chance that med staff and cond. staff makes mistakes.

able
01-29-2006, 09:44 AM
What I would like to know is what kind of offseason strength & conditioning program the Pacers have in place and how rigorous they are in holding players too it.

There are just too many players who come up with nagging injuries for me to think they're coming to camp in the shape they should be. It's one thing when a given player consistently hurts the same body part, but when someone like Tinsley can have a bum foot, shoulder, elbow, etc., etc., - or Foster with hip, back and so on, I begin to wonder.

Those guys are still getting paid over the summer - they need to behave that way (I don't KNOW that they don't - the injury pattern is just suspicious).

Tinsley has been working out all summer with (among others) O'Neill
He was in very good shape when he arrived, we know the JO summer, I can not judhe others, but I feel it is far more what happens once they return to the team then outside of that.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 10:03 AM
As I said in the first post on this topic here, you are starting to believe your own hype, read it again, read the facts and then decide what you want to portray.


He had 1 major foot injury that was botched by the Pacers med staff

Yes a well-documented "botch". And you want to tell me to look at just facts and not my own hype?



But then again, why would we consider feeling sympathy for our injured players, better we trade everyone that sits out more then 3 games a year.

It's been a LOT more than 3. Past 3 years it's been 52/82 (40 out), 40/82 (42 out), and so far 23/42 (19 out, about on pace to match the past two years). And I'm not even counting the playoff games where he was a gimp and clearly uneffective when he did play, which sometimes was only a few minutes out of the entire game. Case in point in game 6 of the ECF (or maybe it was 4 or both; but at least one) he started, played 2 minutes, and never stepped foot on the floor again. When he did play, he didn't play well after he was hurt.


What I stated in my last post in this thread was that there is an option that our med staff in conjunction with out conditioning staff is not that good, the likelyhood of having so many injured players that are all "injury prone" is not that big as opposed to the chance that med staff and cond. staff makes mistakes.

Or as DK suggested, it could be their summer workouts not being good enough. Or these guys really are that injury prone.

able
01-29-2006, 10:17 AM
Yes a well-documented "botch". And you want to tell me to look at just facts and not my own hype?



It's been a LOT more than 3. Past 3 years it's been 52/82 (40 out), 40/82 (42 out), and so far 23/42 (19 out, about on pace to match the past two years).

I refer to the first post I made,

1: your 52/82 = 30 not 40 and 2ndly he was benched, not injured
2: 40/82 = the botched foot injury, which I believe earlier this week was refered to as "mistake by the med staff" by the Pacers organization.

As i said, let's stick to facts not fiction.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 10:45 AM
Well you got me for hitting the wrong #key by typing too quickly. :D

Past that, you can write off the missed time in 2004, but not 2005. That was his own injury issues (the only thing Pacers may have botched is the diagnosis; he still got hurt).

Beyond that, I've said my piece, and I'll end by just saying I agree with Peck.

Kaufman
01-29-2006, 10:48 AM
Rajon Rondo???

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rajonrondo.asp

What is really strange is the guy averages 7.3 rebounds a game. He had
19 against Iowa.

Anyone see him play?

I believe point guard is the Pacers second greatest need after shooting
guard. How about a JJ Redick or Adam Morrison. A better rebounding,
shot blocking center would be nice. Shelden Williams maybe.


owl
Rajon won't be available this year.

Moses
01-29-2006, 10:54 AM
Rajon Rondo???

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/rajonrondo.asp

What is really strange is the guy averages 7.3 rebounds a game. He had
19 against Iowa.

Anyone see him play?

I believe point guard is the Pacers second greatest need after shooting
guard. How about a JJ Redick or Adam Morrison. A better rebounding,
shot blocking center would be nice. Shelden Williams maybe.


owl
I've seen him play. The guy follows up on EVERY shot he takes and crashes the boards almost every play. None of that sitting out at the 3 point line with your wrist flicked and standing on one foot watching the ball fall. He pops the 3 and follows up on it..and with alot of speed.

The most interesting guy to pick up in this draft would be Adam Morrison. The guy is a flat out shooter. He reminds me alot of Dirk in terms of his height and ability to shoot except the fact that he moves exceptionally well without the ball.

Julius Sour
01-29-2006, 11:50 AM
Shoot That old horse. have mercy.

Js

Shade
01-29-2006, 11:58 AM
This is getting to be a habit, but: :suicide:

DisplacedKnick
01-29-2006, 12:06 PM
The most interesting guy to pick up in this draft would be Adam Morrison. The guy is a flat out shooter. He reminds me alot of Dirk in terms of his height and ability to shoot except the fact that he moves exceptionally well without the ball.

Are you talking in general or do you have some scheme where the Pacers get a top-5 (probably top-3) draft pick?

ghost
01-29-2006, 12:22 PM
I wonder, what will happen with Tin this time? He'll come back after injury and will become a starting PG automatically?

317Kim
01-29-2006, 12:25 PM
AGAIN! :eek:

If he comes back earlier than expected, he'll probably come off the bench, but if he fells "100%" then he'd probably start unless Runi had done some spectacular things in previous games that Rick likes.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 12:28 PM
The sad thing, is AJ will start over Sarunas.

317Kim
01-29-2006, 12:33 PM
Oh yeah, that's right :sigh:

Well I guess if AJ somehow averages 27 points and 8 asts THEN JT will have to come off the bench when he's back.

Shade
01-29-2006, 12:35 PM
Are you talking in general or do you have some scheme where the Pacers get a top-5 (probably top-3) draft pick?

No doubt. If Morrison is still on the board when the Pacers pick, I GUARNATEE he will go no lower.

Bball
01-29-2006, 12:35 PM
The JT situation would be easily handled by making him the emergency PG. He can't stay healthy so why keep disrupting the rotation for him?

-Bball

18to88
01-29-2006, 12:42 PM
I've been a fan of Tinsley but yesterday at the autograph session, he was a total dick. Pollard and Gill weren't in the best moods either. They just got out of practice so maybe that was it but damn.

Lord Helmet
01-29-2006, 12:55 PM
The sad thing, is AJ will start over Sarunas.
See, that will get me mad. I have no problem playing AJ at all, I'd just rather Sarunas start. We need a faster PG with our now faster offense.

As for the Tinsley situation, it has happened so much that it doesn't even fase me at all. I like Tinsley but I grow sick and tired of his injuries.

Peck
01-29-2006, 12:57 PM
Peck, I'm dissapointed in you.

Normally a well balanced poster, this opinion is not that well balanced, let's face a fact here, he came back to early once again, and it did little or no good to the injury, just like Jermaine, in fact with Jermaine it was even worse, his playing with a sprained ankle leads to him being out 8 more weeks.

We don't question the people reponsible, but the players, do you honestly believe they like to be injured?

As for Tinsley;
Tins and injured, I'm getting rather tired of people copying what one writes and another assumes to be true and thus we have Tinsley by now in the morgue, playing 1 out of 20 games a season.

The 61 win season (03-04) he was injured for 1 whole week in the beginning, KA got his job without much discussion, hence he did not play a great number of games, he was not injured, he was not happy, but instead of pouting he got himself more then ready to take over when we were 30 games into the season.
Since he played 52 (regular season) games that year, we can assume that he was healthy most of the time
He got injured in the playoffs, played while severely injured nonetheless.

in 04-05 (THE season) he played 36 of the first 41 and in the last 27 of those he averaged 19.4 pts and 8.3 Ast
In "the game" on 11/19/04 v Detroit he set the record for most steals by a Pacers player in 25 years; 8
He then got a foot injury which was GROSSLY mis interpreted by the med staff of the Pacers (MIS-diagnosed) which cost him most of the rest of the season, with some limp attempts to come back, came back against the Celtics and won that series for us, though still not healthy by a long shot.
This year had a bout of the flu (who hasn't on the Pacers? ) and now comes back from a TORN BICEPS, not exactly a re-occurring injury but simply one cause by someone hanging on his arm, oh how weird, JO nearly raptured his shoulder like that.
Comes back again premature, because he's needed so badly, plays a few games that show clearly he is not ready yet and what is now clear? It only aggrevated matters, so let's blame Tins.

Look, until the last 3 weeks I was probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest fan of J.T. on this team (Ragnar & MagicRat obviously were bigger) but I've just come to the conclusion that he can no longer be counted on.

Go back to my post at the end of last season summerizing my thoughts on J.T. & you will see I said they should have traded him then.

It no longer matters if he is hurt, sick, bored or whatever. He cannot be counted on & that is all that matters.

I'm not saying he's not injured, I believe he is, I'm just saying it no longer matters.

I'm tired of A.J. being our starting p.g. I like him but he's a backup. We need a p.g. who can/will play.

On top of that I have really lost a lot of liking to the way he plays. He has turned into Jamaal Iverson & that I can't stand.

CableKC
01-29-2006, 01:10 PM
Ehhh.....just keep him and out til Mid-March wrapped in bubble wrap so that he doesn't have a chance to get injured again. We don't need him until the playoffs anyway.

denyfizle
01-29-2006, 01:13 PM
and when he gets healthy Rick, bring him in slowly as the 3rd PG.OKAY?!?!!?!?!?! until he earns his starting job back!!!

SoupIsGood
01-29-2006, 01:14 PM
I like Rondo

grace
01-29-2006, 01:41 PM
I've been a fan of Tinsley but yesterday at the autograph session, he was a total dick. Pollard and Gill weren't in the best moods either. They just got out of practice so maybe that was it but damn.

Well, first of all they've lost five games in a row. Tinsley's arm is hurt. For all I know it's the hand he writes with. He's trying to rehab and they're making him sign autographs? :rolleyes: Pollard has a bad back. I'm sure he would have rather been getting treatment than sitting in a metal folding chair. As for Eddie maybe he's just pissed off about Danwagon-gate.

denyfizle
01-29-2006, 02:22 PM
I think JAmaal injured it from receiving all those coats for the charity he did.

SycamoreKen
01-29-2006, 02:23 PM
Well, first of all they've lost five games in a row. Tinsley's arm is hurt. For all I know it's the hand he writes with. He's trying to rehab and they're making him sign autographs? :rolleyes: Pollard has a bad back. I'm sure he would have rather been getting treatment than sitting in a metal folding chair. As for Eddie maybe he's just pissed off about Danwagon-gate.

Well, there are days that I don't feel my best going to work but I still have to treat people the right way. If they can't handle it then maybe they need to ask the boss to sub someone else for them and let them do it later.

grace
01-29-2006, 02:52 PM
Well, there are days that I don't feel my best going to work but I still have to treat people the right way. If they can't handle it then maybe they need to ask the boss to sub someone else for them and let them do it later.

Yes, they're supposed to treat people the right way, but after listening to call in shows I can only imagine what people are like at autograph sessions.

I don't think it's all that easy to get out of autograph sessions. Remember "NBA Cares" therefore you do your community service/public appearance and like it :censored:

heywoode
01-29-2006, 03:01 PM
It seems to me that people who like someone will go out of their way to pass off the blame for their shortcomings and only see through rose-colored glasses most of the time. These same people continually find reasons to excuse the undesireables that someone may bring to the table.
Conversely, the people that don't like someone will point out every flaw as another reason to get rid of them, while giving a player they "like" more of a benefit of the doubt. That is just human nature.

Now, I'm no Tinsley apologist, in fact I don't like his game or his attitude (as perceived by me) or his propensity for being injured alot. He seems to be more of a detriment than a compliment, therefore I would be more than willing to trade him. He has certainly stepped up at times and come through for the Pacers when he was very much needed. Credit given where credit is due. Without wasting my entire weekend delving back through his entire career for every single time he was injured and deciding whether it was his fault or not, the fact remains that he seems to be injured a lot.

I would not excuse someone being in a bad mood while interacting with the paying customers simply because of a losing streak or an injury. Neither of those things keeps some of them (not just Tinsley) from joking or smiling on the bench during a crappily played game.

When I look back at everything I've seen and experienced with Tinsley over the course of his career, I would have to say that his negatives outweigh his positives. He is not very likeable as a person when I have been close enough to observe him with my own eyes. I have heard others talk about how he isn't very personable. I have my own perceptions of his disinterest with being a team player. I have my own perceptions that he is VERY injury prone. All these things lead me to feel like the team would be better with a different starting point guard (and I don't mean AJ or Runi) and with Jamaal in a different uniform.

Sorry Jamaal, I just don't feel like you care much about being a Pacer and being a winner.

BlueNGold
01-29-2006, 03:16 PM
Look, until the last 3 weeks I was probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest fan of J.T. on this team (Ragnar & MagicRat obviously were bigger) but I've just come to the conclusion that he can no longer be counted on.

Go back to my post at the end of last season summerizing my thoughts on J.T. & you will see I said they should have traded him then.

It no longer matters if he is hurt, sick, bored or whatever. He cannot be counted on & that is all that matters.

I'm not saying he's not injured, I believe he is, I'm just saying it no longer matters.

I'm tired of A.J. being our starting p.g. I like him but he's a backup. We need a p.g. who can/will play.

On top of that I have really lost a lot of liking to the way he plays. He has turned into Jamaal Iverson & that I can't stand.

Amen!

BlueNGold
01-29-2006, 03:17 PM
I think JAmaal injured it from receiving all those coats for the charity he did.
I think you are on to something. It was Bender's coat drive prior to this season, wasn't it?

owl
01-29-2006, 04:39 PM
Peck said....."It no longer matters if he is hurt, sick, bored or whatever. He cannot be counted on & that is all that matters."



Sounds like someone else who could not be counted on, and who is no longer
here.


Soupisgood said...."I like Rondo"


He certainly sounds like something the Pacers could use. Quickness and
penetrating ability and rebounds like Moses Malone(ok that is hyperbole),
but you get the idea. Kaufman said he will not be available this year.


owl

Hicks
01-29-2006, 04:45 PM
Peck said....."It no longer matters if he is hurt, sick, bored or whatever. He cannot be counted on & that is all that matters."



Sounds like someone else who could not be counted on, and who is no longer
here.

Yeah, Ron was long over due to be traded. :-p

Unclebuck
01-29-2006, 04:46 PM
I think TPTB have stayed with Tinsley way too long he should have been traded a year ago

#31
01-29-2006, 04:52 PM
I dont know why but this smilie reminds me alot of JT...

:leaving:

Jose Slaughter
01-29-2006, 06:39 PM
Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
10.4 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 28.4 minutes

Stephen Jackson
6-8 SG from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
16.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 36.2 minutes

Incoming

Tony Delk
6-2 from Kentucky
No games yet played in 2005/06

Al Harrington
6-9 SF from St. Patrick's (HS)
18.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 3.1 apg in 37.4 minutes

Successful Scenario

microwave_oven
01-29-2006, 09:41 PM
Who is that kid from Temple at point guard? He'll Probably still be on the board when we pick. He's like 6'6 and has great handles...plus he can defend, which is something we sorely need at the 1.

Moses
01-29-2006, 09:46 PM
Are you talking in general or do you have some scheme where the Pacers get a top-5 (probably top-3) draft pick?
Who needs a scheme? The Pacers are already handling the scenario on getting that top 5 draft pick. In any event, I'll say that whoever gets Morrison will get a bonafied all star. The guy will be good in the NBA. I really hope we somehow manage to get him.

brichard
01-29-2006, 10:46 PM
Look, until the last 3 weeks I was probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest fan of J.T. on this team (Ragnar & MagicRat obviously were bigger) but I've just come to the conclusion that he can no longer be counted on.

Go back to my post at the end of last season summerizing my thoughts on J.T. & you will see I said they should have traded him then.

It no longer matters if he is hurt, sick, bored or whatever. He cannot be counted on & that is all that matters.

I'm not saying he's not injured, I believe he is, I'm just saying it no longer matters.

I'm tired of A.J. being our starting p.g. I like him but he's a backup. We need a p.g. who can/will play.

On top of that I have really lost a lot of liking to the way he plays. He has turned into Jamaal Iverson & that I can't stand.

:iagree:

The only thing I would debate is AJ starting. I've said before that he is a bg PG, but I kind of feel like Runi is as well. I also like having some reliable offense on the bench. If we start Peja and Runi, we will score... but we are going to get scored on a lot.

DeS
01-30-2006, 05:31 AM
The only thing I would debate is AJ starting. I've said before that he is a bg PG, but I kind of feel like Runi is as well. I also like having some reliable offense on the bench. If we start Peja and Runi, we will score... but we are going to get scored on a lot.
In this case You have to look at plus/minus statistics, which sums it all (scoring/getting scored) ;) On the other hand this is not as important, coz You always have to match offense and defence (sometimes it seems that sometimes Rick can't do it). Imho, that's important - will starting Saras bring something that could turn arround the not playing well first half thing.

sixthman
01-30-2006, 06:07 AM
I've been a fan of Tinsley but yesterday at the autograph session, he was a total dick. Pollard and Gill weren't in the best moods either. They just got out of practice so maybe that was it but damn.

You're saying that none of the autograph signers, especially Tins, were friendly with the fans?

DisplacedKnick
01-30-2006, 07:07 AM
Who needs a scheme? The Pacers are already handling the scenario on getting that top 5 draft pick.

I don't think your season will go that far in the toilet.

owl
01-30-2006, 05:26 PM
DK said..."I don't think your season will go that far in the toilet."


If things go very badly, which I would call going 10 and 30 the rest of the way then the Pacers would have the 7th through the 9th pick. There are too
many teams that are plain horrible to get a pick much better than that.
If things go well they will finish right around 41 and 41. That is the best
I can see happening.


owl

317Kim
01-30-2006, 05:47 PM
From the way Ricks talking about JT, seems like he wont be back for quite awhile.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/060130_peja.html


But there are many harsh realities facing the team, including the news Tinsley would be out for an undefined period of time to allow a full recovery from his right elbow injury. He previously missed 11 games spanning nearly a month then returned to play ineffectively in four games before returning to the sidelines.

"We've got to make sure he's 100 percent," Carlisle said. "It doesn't make any sense to be doing this yo-yo thing where he's in one day and out the next because we haven't allowed him to heal. It's kind of like the foot last year. We've got to make sure he's right before we throw him back out there. I think that's the smart thing to do."

brichard
01-30-2006, 09:00 PM
In this case You have to look at plus/minus statistics, which sums it all (scoring/getting scored) ;) On the other hand this is not as important, coz You always have to match offense and defence (sometimes it seems that sometimes Rick can't do it). Imho, that's important - will starting Saras bring something that could turn arround the not playing well first half thing.


Well, it does but it doesn't. It would be good to look at, but +/- statistics talk about the overall effect of the team when you enter. So, you could play lousy but the entire team goes on a tear for some reason. Maybe it is because of you or maybe not. I'm not saying it is a statistic you shouldn't look at, but it isn't the only statistic you look at.

I'd be interested to see the difference head to head for Sarunas and the actual guy he is playing defense on.

FrenchConnection
01-30-2006, 09:23 PM
Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
10.4 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 4.9 apg in 28.4 minutes

Stephen Jackson
6-8 SG from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
16.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 36.2 minutes

Incoming

Tony Delk
6-2 from Kentucky
No games yet played in 2005/06

Al Harrington
6-9 SF from St. Patrick's (HS)
18.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 3.1 apg in 37.4 minutes

Successful Scenario

I realize that everyone wants Jack gone and Al back, but it cannot be a single transaction. Jack is like Ron; once hs has been on your team you no longer want him. Trust me, Atlanta wants not part of him for a second go-around.

DeS
01-31-2006, 05:27 AM
Well, it does but it doesn't. It would be good to look at, but +/- statistics talk about the overall effect of the team when you enter. So, you could play lousy but the entire team goes on a tear for some reason. Maybe it is because of you or maybe not.
No - You can't play lousy and still have a positive +/- stat. You can play lousy several games, but this stat is after playing 42 games. This is NBA and 1 player on average playing lousy means hard times for his squad and the guaranteed minus.


I'm not saying it is a statistic you shouldn't look at, but it isn't the only statistic you look at.
Of course this stat doesn't tell all the story, but if we are talking about squads scoring/getting outscored, then this is one of the first stats to look at.


I'd be interested to see the difference head to head for Sarunas and the actual guy he is playing defense on.
You may look at the box score. I think in most cases Sarunas (assuming playing him at PG) will have better (or similar) statistics when comparing him with oponents, coz (h2h) statistics doesn't tell much about defence. Also, it may be true that most PG's would outplay him when playing 1-on-1. On the other hand, Sarunas excels at playing team ball and looks like he has the best W/L record on the team (63%). AJ has 44%, but it's not fair to compare as he is playing the starting squad. Yet another interessting notice - AJ has 57% when playing at SG. Maybe this is why Rick started AJ (at SG) with Tins, Saras being backup PG.
Ok, i'm out of statistics (though it was interesting to explore 82games.com) :)

bluejrdn5
01-31-2006, 08:19 AM
The fact of the matter is ......Tins is injured and not playing for what seems like the umpth-teen time this season , and it is becoming a regular happening.
In this league, where it is "what have you done for me lately?", Jamaal , no matter how "good" he is ON the court, is NOT on the court.