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View Full Version : Is Peja capable of being that "second star" on a championship contender?



Shade
01-28-2006, 04:38 PM
It's obvious to me that we're going to need a second star player to have a shot at a title. JO is defintely one (when healthy), but it's obvious to me that Jack is not. Dos anyone believe that Peja could be that guy for us, or do we need to make a move for another "star" player instead?

Hicks
01-28-2006, 04:52 PM
This is the wrong time to ask IMO. I need to see how he plays with this team for a while to begin to formulate a true opinion.

Lord Helmet
01-28-2006, 04:53 PM
I think Peja can be that "second star" . JO will get him open a lot, when he comes back.

But, we'll see...

Mordecaii
01-28-2006, 04:59 PM
I think he can be on one condition... we change our offense back into what it was with reggie around, substitute peja for reggie, make the appropriate changes, and make sure to get peja the ball enough.

Unclebuck
01-28-2006, 05:00 PM
Peja played the best ball of his career during the 2004 season when Webber was out for the first 65 games or so

Kstat
01-28-2006, 05:02 PM
Peja didn't miss CWebb. He missed Divac.

Peja needs a big man that can really pass the ball to be at his most effective.

Peja hasn't been the same since Divac left. He was OK without CWebb.

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 05:04 PM
No, I don't think so. For this team to be successful with Peja it will have to be more than a two star system.

rexnom
01-28-2006, 05:16 PM
No, I don't think so. For this team to be successful with Peja it will have to be more than a two star system.

Well of course, it's not like this team doesn't have other players. Remember, the Pacers are DEEP! :D


Peja didn't miss CWebb. He missed Divac.

Peja needs a big man that can really pass the ball to be at his most effective.

Peja hasn't been the same since Divac left. He was OK without CWebb.

Seriously tho, this is what concerns me the most. While I think that J.O.'s post presence will help Peja, I don't have nearly enough faith in his passing abilities nor in any other of our big men. The only person I really have faith in is Tinsley and JT isn't exactly on the reliable side. Maybe Sarunas will flourish playing alongside a person with a similar game, however. Who knows?

stipo
01-28-2006, 05:18 PM
Hey, I'm no Pedja (I keep seeing it spelled this way) expert, but I keep hearing he doesn't use screens real well, and he can't really create his own shot. Seems like that kind of guy can be shut down in the playoffs.

Shade
01-28-2006, 05:19 PM
This is the wrong time to ask IMO. I need to see how he plays with this team for a while to begin to formulate a true opinion.

Actually, I want to see what everyone thinks right now, and then revisit this later on.

Moses
01-28-2006, 05:26 PM
What this team needs is for Peja to step up and be the second offensive threat..BUT MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, Our guys need to play consistent. Everyone has been shooting terrible from the field prior to last nights game. If our guys can put up performances like that on a semi-regular basis, we'll make the playoffs as a 6 seed easily.

CableKC
01-28-2006, 05:32 PM
Although we have to wait to see what happens.....I would much rather have Peja be the 2nd option then SJax.

I think that in the Peja/CWeb/Christie/Vlade SacTown era....Peja was better as the "Occasional #1" but "Primary #2" option on the team and struggled when all of them left town and he was called upon to be the "Primary #1" scoring option. Although I don't really know....Peja doesn't seem to be the type of player that would be as selfish as SJax appears to be. Although in yesterday's game....he had to be the #1 scoring option.....and therefore should take the most shots....SJax seems to be more of a black hole then not despite not being ice-cold from the field and having other players wide open.

I have a feeling that Peja could be streaky....but my hope is that any of his passing skills that he learned when playing in Adelman's system carries over to Carlisle's system.

able
01-28-2006, 06:27 PM
If we had anyone on the team capable of taking a pass and making a shot JO's Ast rate would be right up there with KG and sorts, if not higher, he can and does pass, only for Jeff to miss the Bunny or Jax to do "his" thing.
Start of the game he 1st started with Hulk, 2 Ast and 2 Bunies made by Hulk in the first 2 minutes of play.

Pedja will be "handy" and "can" be the second star, someone they can NOT leave alone, because he WILL hit, so no risk can be taken

KingsFan
01-28-2006, 06:44 PM
Usually the best defenders of the opposing teams on Peja, so it'll ease the game for the rest at least. I'm not sure if he can be the second star, when it needs he can't take charge, he's just a good role player. Yet, no one can deny, he can be deadly in the right mix.

Evan_The_Dude
01-28-2006, 07:37 PM
If we're talking about next season, then I think Granger is the "second star" to be. Peja could be the "second star 1/2", but he lacks the all around game of Granger.

NZPacer
01-28-2006, 07:45 PM
If we're talking about next season, then I think Granger is the "second star" to be. Peja could be the "second star 1/2", but he lacks the all around game of Granger.

That's a pretty big call. I'm not doubting Granger's ability, but to be the "second star" on a championship caliber team... maybe a bit to soon?

Moses
01-28-2006, 07:53 PM
That's a pretty big call. I'm not doubting Granger's ability, but to be the "second star" on a championship caliber team... maybe a bit to soon?
Just what I was thinking.

I just got done playing NBA live and I had a triple OT against my friend when he was using the Heat. JO, Peja, Granger, and David provided the win for me. I expect the same in real life if we do happen to win a championship in the next 2-3 years. The main 3 that need to step up big time would be JO Peja and Granger. I love that trio of guys because you have an excellent low post player, an excellent outside shooter, and a little bit of both in Granger + defense. Wow that was a bit off-topic.

Anyways, You need a little bit from both guys. I'd prefer both guys average to average 16-17 PPG each rather then have Peja average 24 and Granger 10 or vice versa because it provides alot more versatility in the offense.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 08:06 PM
Just what I was thinking.

I just got done playing NBA live and I had a triple OT against my friend when he was using the Heat. JO, Peja, Granger, and David provided the win for me. I expect the same in real life if we do happen to win a championship in the next 2-3 years.

:lmao:

Come on dude, seriously....

You cannot say a lineup will work just because it worked for you in a video game.....

Moses
01-28-2006, 08:09 PM
:lmao:

Come on dude, seriously....

You cannot say a lineup will work just because it worked for you in a video game.....
I said it was off topic for a reason. But hey, don't quote that.

So your saying the development of Granger, Peja, and JO wont determine our future success? Interesting. Good luck with that.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 08:10 PM
So your saying the development of Granger, Peja, and JO wont determine our future success? Interesting. Good luck with that.

That's a completely different issue.

But if you want to back up your claim, use something else other than NBA live....

Moses
01-28-2006, 08:12 PM
That's a completely different issue.

But if you want to back up your claim, use something else other than NBA live....
I only claimed that the success of the team would be off of Peja, JO, and Granger. Then I went on to say that it happened that way when I was playing but afterwards said it was off-topic.

FrenchConnection
01-28-2006, 08:33 PM
I think that he could but I hope that he does not have to. He fills the role that has been lacking since Reggie stopped being Reggie. JO, when he is at his best, fills the role of a back to the basket post player. Foster can rebound well. What we need is a PG that can run all this. I think that if you stop looking at positions and instead look at roles in the offense, then Granger and Peja can play on the floor at the same time. I know, this smacks of Isiah, but I think that this can work if the coaching is right. I think that Rick can do this, but the personel was not correct for a system like this until the acquisition of Peja. Heck, he did it with the 99/2000 team when he essentially ran the show. I really want this to happen. I want to have a winning basketball team that is fun to watch. If Joe Dumars can do it, so can Bird!! Everybody on the Pistons fills a role. Who is the first option on that great team? The open guy (well at least 1-4)! We need to get to this point, and if JO is not on board with this ship him out for a less talented but more team oriented post player.

p.s. I am sorry about the rant and the typos. I have had a few beers and am feeling strong on this issue. Tomorrow I will reread all this and be embarrased, I am sure of it!

Evan_The_Dude
01-28-2006, 08:35 PM
I'm calling Granger the second star TO BE because he's only one of two players (O'Neal being the other), that can contribute in every single category. I'm not just talking star on offense only, I'm talking as a whole. I'm not saying he'll score 20 per game, hell I think he'd be lucky to get 14 per game next year, but as a full-time starter I have no doubt he can give us 8 boards, 2 steals and 1.5 blocks per game, add to that maybe 2-4 assists. Also add the fact that he seems to make the plays he does right when we need them, that's what makes me see a star in him. Too bad he couldn't hit that three last night though...

CableKC
01-28-2006, 08:42 PM
What we need is a PG that can run all this. I think that if you stop looking at positions and instead look at roles in the offense, then Granger and Peja can play on the floor at the same time.
Interesting thought.......which PG do you think would be a better PG to run the show based off of the likely type of offense that we will be running for the rest of the season?

Without JONeal, we will be playing Small Ball, Run and Gun type offense with little to no Low Post Presense. Will Tinsley, Sarunas or AJ be a better fit for the style of offense we will be running?

With JONeal, we will probably be reverting back to our previous low Post grind slow it down type off offense. Who will be the better PG to run the offense then?

Keep in mind that I am not asking which is the best PG on the roster....I'm asking ( given what we know about Tinsley and AJ and what we have seen with Sarunas ) which of the 3 PG styles best fit what offense that we will be runinng.

tora tora
01-28-2006, 09:01 PM
I'm asking ( given what we know about Tinsley and AJ and what we have seen with Sarunas ) which of the 3 PG styles best fit what offense that we will be runinng.
:gill:

Moses
01-28-2006, 09:08 PM
:gill:
Thats obviously Chuck Norris in his crappy PG suit.

Old as Dirt
01-28-2006, 09:21 PM
Stop and think Austin when he was starting or does anyone want to remember. He was running about 15 16 points per game. And most people won't agree that is all right Foster when and if he get well. Is the best per min rebounder in the NBA or at least the top 4 or 5.

owl
01-28-2006, 10:05 PM
:lmao:

Come on dude, seriously....

You cannot say a lineup will work just because it worked for you in a video game.....

It worked for my Detroit line-up ;-), so why not his Pacer line-up. I bet Donnie sits in his office and plays video basketball games with various players to see who wins, then he knows who to go after.

Oh Rly??

Ya Rly!!!

owl

Moses
01-28-2006, 10:14 PM
It worked for my Detroit line-up ;-), so why not his Pacer line-up. I bet Donnie sits in his office and plays video basketball games with various players to see who wins, then he knows who to go after.

Oh Rly??

Ya Rly!!!

owl
http://www.rsthree.com/orly/notrly.jpg

LjuboDaMan
01-28-2006, 10:30 PM
Peja will help if they set the screens for him and pass him the ball at the right time ...

he can really run ... they gotta pass and thats it

team game ...

when kings played good team game peja was third in scoring in nba

when they stopped, pejas numbers went down

pizza guy
01-28-2006, 11:00 PM
Having JO inside and Peja outside spreads the defense. It gives them both more space to work with, just like Reggie did when he was here. It also takes pressure off of some other guys and frees them up. A shooter like Peja helps everyone on the offensive side.

On defense, he's certainly not Ron Artest's equivalent. With Granger, we may be able to play the match-up game on defense. It could very well work because of the versatility we get from Granger, and the size in Peja. I also think with JO, DG, and Hulk on the floor it's not bad defensively.

And as for the best point gaurd to run an offense that uses screens for the shooter or clears out for the post player, I'm going with Mark Jackson. With the guys we have right now though, I'm not sure. Tinsley certainly can do it, but that's only if he can. Sarunas may be ideal for this because of the motion part with Peja, and he's a good shooter, further spreading the floor. Of course, I'm baised towards Sarunas anyways.

LjuboDaMan
01-29-2006, 12:55 AM
you avatar is awesome haha

N8R
01-29-2006, 01:14 AM
I dont think Peja has what it takes to become the second star on the Pacers. He is just a shooter and a streeky one at that as of late. Sure one night he can drop 40+ but I dont see him averaging more than 12-14 point per game for the Pacers this season.

They should do a sign and trade with him or let him walk and use the cap space to sign someone else.

CableKC
01-29-2006, 02:03 AM
I dont think Peja has what it takes to become the second star on the Pacers. He is just a shooter and a streeky one at that as of late. Sure one night he can drop 40+ but I dont see him averaging more than 12-14 point per game for the Pacers this season.

They should do a sign and trade with him or let him walk and use the cap space to sign someone else.
That remains to be seen. Despite averaging less FGA in the 2005-2006 season ( 13.7 FGA compared to 15.4 FGA in the 2004-2005 season ) and not still shooting as well as he did in previous years.....Peja still averaged 14.8 points a game.

If it is expected that Peja will become at worst the 2nd scoring option on the team....he should take Artest's shots...which averaged 16.7 before being put on the inactive list. This means that it is possible that he should be able to return to form as long as he is given the opportunity on the offense.

Its possible that he may continue to decline......I would be willing to bet that the opposite will occur.

LjuboDaMan
01-29-2006, 02:05 AM
I dont think Peja has what it takes to become the second star on the Pacers. He is just a shooter and a streeky one at that as of late. Sure one night he can drop 40+ but I dont see him averaging more than 12-14 point per game for the Pacers this season.

They should do a sign and trade with him or let him walk and use the cap space to sign someone else.

12-14 points ?

peja ? :censored:

u must be kidding

Bball
01-29-2006, 02:25 AM
If the ball goes into JO and gets stuck there... AKA bogged down in there... then it doesn't matter who we have outside to supposedly take pressure off of him.

We have to have players capable of making other teams pay for too much attention on JO inside... and JO has to take advantage of those players by making quick decisions and getting them the ball.

If Peja is that person, great... But it's a team game.

-Bball

Diesel_81
01-29-2006, 03:04 AM
I really do think the change of scenery will get Peja back on track and if that happens a Jermaine and Peja combo is very scary to deal with for other teams. It creates a inside outside combo we really have never had. I expect Peja to come here and give us 20pts on 46% shooting.

Some more moves have to be made such as getting a reliable pg who can stop dribble penetration,Granger continuing to improve, and getting rid of Steven Jackson. I also wouldn't mind an upgrade at center. If we can do that I think we have the pieces in place where Peja is more then capable of being a second star on a championship contender.

NZPacer
01-29-2006, 05:25 AM
They should do a sign and trade with him or let him walk and use the cap space to sign someone else.

Even if that is the case, do you really expect Donnie and Larry to sign and trade a player they have coveted for the best part of two years this quickly?

DG-33
01-29-2006, 06:28 AM
Peja can be a beautiful, stunning, amazing scorer. He's so efficient. 50/90/40 isnt out of the question, and only a handful of players have been able to do hat even once. The best shooter in the league, and one of the 10 best of all-time. And he's 6'10" to boot.

What part of these accomplishments dont some of you people understand?

4th All-Time in Free Throw % (89.3%)
26th All-Time in 3 Point % (39.8%)
3-time All-Star....at forward...in the West (2002, 2003, 2004)
All-NBA 2nd Team (2004)
4th in MVP (2004)
20+ points per game in 4 of the past 5 seasons
He's Never Missed the Playoffs in his Career...

And remember folks, Peja, along with Chris Webber, was the 1A, 1B options on one of the best teams in the league for the past 5 years. So if you have Peja as one of your main guys, and you surround him with talent, you will win lots of basketball games.
In my opinion, he makes a very good #1 option, but a fantastic #2 option. And playing along side one of the premiere big men in the league will only make Peja better. And playing alongside the best overall shooter in the league will only make JO better. Reminds me of a famous movie quote... (http://www.moviewavs.com/0078546128/WAVS/Movies/Casablanca/cbfriend.wav)

FrenchConnection
01-29-2006, 08:55 AM
I dont think Peja has what it takes to become the second star on the Pacers. He is just a shooter and a streeky one at that as of late. Sure one night he can drop 40+ but I dont see him averaging more than 12-14 point per game for the Pacers this season.

They should do a sign and trade with him or let him walk and use the cap space to sign someone else.

CAP SPACE? How many times do we have to go over this around here. There will be no cap space. Not this year, not next year, not ever it seems. In fact, Peja will be by far the best player that we will be in a position to sign in this offseason. You make this trade to get his Bird rights so that you can sign him, and I expect the Pacers to do so in the offseason.

Kestas
01-29-2006, 10:37 AM
It's obvious to me that we're going to need a second star player to have a shot at a title. JO is defintely one (when healthy), but it's obvious to me that Jack is not. Dos anyone believe that Peja could be that guy for us, or do we need to make a move for another "star" player instead?

Peja is deffinitely better known and has more supporters than Jack ever had. in Europe the name of Stephen Jackson may ring a bell only to the supporters of the Pacers or die hard NBA fans. plus, Peja is very charizmatic, he attracts attention easily. Jackson is really pale in that respect. I suppose right now Peja, JO and Jasikevicius are the best known players in the Pacers. in terms of USA audience it is, of course, different.
In terms of contribution, I think Peja can easily outscore Jack. that is obvious imho. Jack simply gets too much freedom. with so much freedom to shoot he should be scoring more. if Peja gets so much trust from the coaches, he may become more valuable than Jack. in fact, having in mind the lack of team concept in Jack's head (I have a ball, - I must shoot it into the basket somehow) and his declining shooting percentages, i'd say that Peja is better hands down.

recap
01-29-2006, 11:17 AM
CAP SPACE? How many times do we have to go over this around here. There will be no cap space. Not this year, not next year, not ever it seems. In fact, Peja will be by far the best player that we will be in a position to sign in this offseason. You make this trade to get his Bird rights so that you can sign him, and I expect the Pacers to do so in the offseason.

Not true. With Reggie, Pollard, Jones, (Bender?), etc. coming off the books this summer we will be close (perhaps under, depending on what the cap is for next year) to the cap. In another year with Croshere's contract expiring we COULD be under the cap depending on what management decides to do.

Personally, I think that we should and will try to sign Peja to a long deal. In which case cap space is a moot point.

Kstat
01-29-2006, 11:22 AM
Not true. With Reggie, Pollard, Jones, (Bender?), etc. coming off the books this summer we will be close (perhaps under, depending on what the cap is for next year) to the cap. In another year with Croshere's contract expiring we COULD be under the cap depending on what management decides to do.

Personally, I think that we should and will try to sign Peja to a long deal. In which case cap space is a moot point.

I don't think bender comes off the books until 2007.

able
01-29-2006, 11:33 AM
even with Bender, Jones, Gill of the books next year we are still around 58 mio, nowhere near the cap, in fact just some pennies under the LT.
If Peja opts out, then we go to 50 mio (cap border) but..........

we will have a roster of:

JO,
Cro,
Jax,
Tins,
Foster,
Saras,
Aj,
Granger,
Harrisson.

Yes 9 players. and no capspace to sign anyone, except the vet min.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 11:45 AM
He's likely going to retire now, speeding up the money-save for us.

Pacesetter
01-29-2006, 12:21 PM
In terms of contribution, I think Peja can easily outscore Jack. that is obvious imho. Jack simply gets too much freedom. with so much freedom to shoot he should be scoring more. if Peja gets so much trust from the coaches, he may become more valuable than Jack. in fact, having in mind the lack of team concept in Jack's head (I have a ball, - I must shoot it into the basket somehow) and his declining shooting percentages, i'd say that Peja is better hands down.

Peja is quite a bit better shooter than Jack, but having said that, I think Peja is probably better than most of the other players in the league in pure shooting ability.

Jack does better when he thinks first to create, then to defend, then to score. He's also much more deadly from the outside in games where he first opens up with an inside game (Reggie was the same way). If he creates-defends-slashes first, his outside game opens up exponentially! JMO.

Kstat
01-29-2006, 12:38 PM
He's likely going to retire now, speeding up the money-save for us.

I'm not clear on when exactly his salary can come off the books, Hicks.

I know the Knicks were saddled with LJ's contract long after he retired.

denyfizle
01-29-2006, 01:15 PM
3rd star