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Unclebuck
01-28-2006, 11:27 AM
Interesting but a little depressing. Although some of the basketball stuff in here I find a little inaccurate. And the TV ratings they site are only Fox Sports Midwest, I wonder if WB4 is off as much.

And it is not a fair or good comparison to compare the whole 41 games home attendence vs the first 18 games. Everyone with half a brain knows attendance really picks up in January. Pacers have had two straight sell outs. Lakers will get a decent Wednesday night crowd, and the Pistons game will sell out. So what they need to do is compare the first 18 homes games last season with this season, and if they did I'd bet the decrease is a maybe 400 per game not the 1000 they suggest. And another thing most tickets are sold before the first regular season game is played, so the year before is a better barometer of attendance than how the team is currently playing. Keep in mind they only count tickets sold not butts in the seats.

http://www.ibj.com/html/story013006_2.html



Not much to cheer about
Setbacks on and off court sink attendance, ratings


By Anthony Schoettle
IBJ Reporter

Can Peja Stojakovic lift Pacers out of their funk?
Click here to join IBJ's disussion forum.

At this season's midpoint, the Indiana Pacers are losing one of their best players--Ron Artest--games in multiples, and perhaps most important, the fan support that propped the franchise up amid difficulties last year.

The Pacers' hopes to salvage this season now largely rest on a trade that finally sent Artest packing and brought two-time NBA all-star Peja Stojakovic in from Sacramento.

Heading toward the all-star break, though, there remain more questions for the Pacers than answers. Attendance has dropped to an eight-year low, TV ratings are in a double-digit-percentage decline, and season-ticket holders are cashing out.

"I gave up my season tickets, and I don't regret it for one minute," said Bob Birge, president of locally based Law Firm Marketing Network. "The games just aren't very entertaining."

Birge, who paid about $100 each for four lower-level tickets, said he began having trouble in the last three years getting clients and business associates interested in attending games.

"It was expensive, and it simply wasn't worth it anymore," Birge said. "I think the problem is bigger than the Pacers and Ron Artest; it's the whole NBA. But it sure is being reflected here."

Ernie Reno, president of Avatar Communications, a locally based marketing and public relations firm, called the Pacers' lackluster on-court effort "insulting to fans."

"It's not just the money," Reno said. "People's time is very valuable."

Average attendance has dropped from 16,995 last year to 16,052 this year through 18 home games. Attendance was below 16,000 per game--lower than any season ending average since 1998--until a Jan. 21 home sellout against Chicago boosted the total. Still, the Pacers have only three sellouts this year, and little chance of matching last year's 15 sellouts without a dramatic on-court turnaround, sports marketers said.

An attendance drop of 1,000 per game, sports business experts said, can equate to a loss of more than $1.5 million in ticket revenue alone. With the NBA's third-highest player payroll at $79.3 million this year, the loss could push the Pacers' basketball operations into the red, said University of Notre Dame sports economist Richard Sheehan.

Ticket sales and television revenue are the biggest sources of income for NBA teams, but they're also key indicators of just about every other revenue stream.

"When attendance and TV ratings drop, a lot of ancillary dollars also drop off," said David Carter, principal of Sports Business Group, a Los Angeles-based sports business consultancy. "Revenue from concessions, parking and merchandise sales will see a more immediate drop-off. If the team's decline is prolonged, demand for corporate suites, club seats and sponsorships drops off, and that can be very financially painful for a team."

The 1999-2000 season, the first in Conseco Fieldhouse, when the Pacers sold out every home game and averaged 18,345 in attendance on the way to the NBA Finals, seems like a lifetime ago.

Bad timing

The recent downturn came just as the Pacers were turning the tide on a gradual three-year attendance slide.

"This seems to be hitting the Pacers at exactly the wrong time," Carter said. "A year ago, the team was a rallying point for the community, and this year, well ... it's all gone wrong."

Last season, attendance climbed about 4 percent despite a team that was wracked with injuries and suspension in the wake of the brawl in Detroit. Despite a season-long suspension for Artest, who started the brawl with Detroit fans, and multigame suspensions to other key players, Pacers fans continued to support the team on a number of levels.

The night after the fight in Detroit, a near-sellout crowd at Conseco Fieldhouse vocally supported the Pacers, which dressed only six players and narrowly lost to the Orlando Magic.

"Last year, [the Pacers] had record TV ratings," said Geoff Goldman, spokesman for Fox Sports Midwest. This year, the network has seen a 17-percent decline in the team's ratings as tracked by New York-based Nielsen Media Research.

Sponsors voiced concerns to Pacers brass following the Detroit fight, but all stayed with the team.

Pacers officials were unavailable for comment, but sports marketers said the team is at a critical crossroads.

"If the Pacers were a hospital patient, I would put them in fair condition," Reno said. "But they could take a turn for the worse or a turn for the better any day."

Some sports marketers said the Pacers need a marketing overhaul. Artest was one of four players used in a campaign taglined "Unite" at the beginning of this season. Artest has since been erased from the ad campaign and his bigger-than-life banner at Conseco Fieldhouse has been removed. But a marketing overhaul could cost well into six figures, marketers said.

"Whatever they do has to be done in concert with what they do on the court," Reno said. "It's a time I think they need to be more aggressive in reaching out to the community on and off the court. Those 30-point losses don't help, and there's no amount of marketing that's going to fix that."

With the retirement of 18-year veteran Reggie Miller, the Pacers are missing a big chunk of the personality this community embraced, said Milton Thompson, president of Grand Slam Cos., a locally based sports marketing consultancy. Others noted that this team doesn't have marketable personas like Miller, Rik Smits or Mark Jackson to rely on.

"Most core fans are hanging in for now, but [the Pacers are] losing a lot of their casual fans, and that's hurting," Thompson said.

Stojakovic has been criticized for his defensive skills and occasional disappearing act during big games, but he has been a solid NBA citizen, heavily embraced by Sacramento fans during his seven-plus-year stay there.

"This community wants a team comprised of good players and good people," said Andrew "Buddy" Baker, president of IM Sports Services LLC, a locally based firm representing professional athletes. "I think there's a lot to be excited about with Peja Stojakovic."

Eroding credibility

Even when things went wrong in the past, the community still rallied around team owners Herb and Mel Simon and highly respected President Donnie Walsh.

"He's still one of the most highly respected executives in the NBA, but Donnie Walsh's margin for error, I think with sponsors and especially fans, is probably shrinking," said Andrew Zimbalist, a professor at Smith College in Northampton, Mass., and a noted sports economist. "When Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere are two of your three highest-paid players, you have problems."

While the decision to acquire Artest in the first place and not trade him this past off-season are Walsh's latest missteps, they're certainly not his only mistakes. Fat contracts for oft-injured, unproven Bender and for Croshere, an NBA role player, meant the Pacers couldn't retain other key players, including native Hoosier Brad Miller and recent crowd favorite Dale Davis. Some of Walsh's recent acquisitions are showing spotty results, including Sarunas Jasikevicius, who was touted as Reggie Miller's replacement.

Then there's Larry Bird, Pacers president of basketball operations, who has been criticized for his unwavering support of Artest. The problem was compounded in October when Bird posed with Artest for a Sports Illustrated cover story titled "Stand by Your Man."

"The only problem the Pacers front office thought they had coming into the season was they had too many quality players and not enough playing time," said a source close to the team. "The front office never saw this train wreck coming."

Local residents long known for making this a Pacers town are more uncertain about the team's future than they have been in a decade, sports marketers said, despite the addition of Stojakovic, who becomes a free agent at season's end. The uncertainty will likely make it more difficult for the Pacers to win fans back.

Baker expects cautious optimism from Hoosiers.

"They've been through a lot, so they'll want to see how this whole thing works out," he said.

Thompson said there's good reason for caution.

"It's going to be a short honeymoon for Stojakovic and the Pacers," he said. "If this doesn't work out, I'll think you'll see the Pacers front office blow this whole team up."

Colts cavalcade

In addition to their own problems, Pacers officials have had to play this season largely in the shadow of the Indianapolis Colts, who spent the first 13 weeks of the NFL season chasing history.

"In Los Angeles, the Angels and Dodgers have difficulty gaining traction with fans until the Lakers playoff run is over," Carter said. "The potential for conflict among major-league teams will be even more acute in a market the size of Indianapolis.

"The two teams fight not only for ticket sales and sponsorships, but column inches in the newspaper and local TV and radio time. There's only so many resources on a number of levels."

Though the Colts' new stadium doesn't open until 2008, it could affect decisions of corporations considering multiyear deals this coming off-season for suites or pricey club seats at Conseco Fieldhouse.

It's difficult to say where the Pacers should go from here, but Reno has an idea for a start.

"The Pacers need a coherent plan going forward," he said. "That will be a big step in winning over this community."

Kegboy
01-28-2006, 11:54 AM
"I gave up my season tickets, and I don't regret it for one minute," said Kegboy, president of locally based Kegboy Industries, LLC.

Fixed.

:devil:

Unclebuck
01-28-2006, 12:27 PM
Well, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not giving up my season tickets, I still love the Pacers and still love the NBA. I've been through a lot worse than this and I didn't run then, so I'm not abandoning the Pacers now.

sweabs
01-28-2006, 12:40 PM
Well, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not giving up my season tickets, I still love the Pacers and still love the NBA. I've been through a lot worse than this and I didn't run then, so I'm not abandoning the Pacers now.

No kidding. This could be a 10-win team for all I care, and I'd still buy tickets for my trip to Indy every, single, time.

owl
01-28-2006, 12:56 PM
Buck and Rcarey are not the fans they are or should be as worried about but the casual fan. Lets face it, there are plenty of places for people to spend
their entertainment dollar. So it is imperative that Donnie rights the ship.
I can almost guarantee that 2 other players who's name I will not mention
will be traded in the offseason if at all possible to continue the clean up
process.


owl

Roaming Gnome
01-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Well, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not giving up my season tickets, I still love the Pacers and still love the NBA. I've been through a lot worse than this and I didn't run then, so I'm not abandoning the Pacers now.

:nod: I'm not giving my season tix up either...it took me too long to get in a position to get them! Anyway, we all know most casual fans are very fickle, especially in this town!

Bball
01-28-2006, 01:38 PM
I wonder if all of the main characters from 11/19 will need to be removed from this team before the cloud is truly lifted?

-Bball

Will Galen
01-28-2006, 01:57 PM
The Pacers are full of players that hurt the team, (arguring calls and not getiing back, slow getting off the floor, etc.) fans don't like that, so this team isn't liked. And now since it's not winning, the casual fan doesn't want to watch it.

Unclebuck
01-28-2006, 02:02 PM
The fans at the game last night were really into it, they seemed to like what they saw. Paul B even pulled out some of his material from last season, about the team being shot handed and all.

Will Galen
01-28-2006, 02:10 PM
To start, the Pacers have to get rid of their biggest perceived problems, Jackson and Tinsley. They should do this by the trade deadline. If that doesn't work they are going to have to do an overhaul and trade JO for a young stud.

Los Angeles
01-28-2006, 02:12 PM
I wonder if all of the main characters from 11/19 will need to be removed from this team before the cloud is truly lifted?

-Bball

Yes.

It's sad, but that's just the way it is. And even after that, we won't truly be able to avoid it sometimes.

It's the same with any memorable moment good or bad. The Pacers franchise is stuck with it and will be for a very long time.

grace
01-28-2006, 02:30 PM
The marketing aspect of the Pacers has been atrocious of late. In fact there hasn't been a good campaign since Fred Hoiberg rode with his head out the window and Chris Mullin was hitch hiking to town. Of course nothing will ever top Dale Davis alternating between telling Boomer he loved him and threatening fans because he knows where we live.

Unclebuck
01-28-2006, 02:54 PM
No one has come right and said this, but do you think that the brawl in and of itself 11/19 is hurting the Pacers popularity in Indianapolis. I really don't. 30 point blowouts hurt fan interest more than anything

denyfizle
01-28-2006, 03:01 PM
I won't let go of my season tickets, but I just hate the fact that Conseco Box office and whoever handles our ticket sales hold tickets til the actual game is nearing. I tried to order extra tickets for the Lakers game 2 months ago at the lower level and they said it was sold out in the lowers. I tried again yesterday and they had seats at section 1. This has happened to me more than a few times. I understand the concept they're trying to save the good seats for packages and groups etc. but it's just BULL**** to lie to loyal consumers and especially with the decline in attendance, why the heck do they hold out on local buyers for?

denyfizle
01-28-2006, 03:02 PM
No one has come right and said this, but do you think that the brawl in and of itself 11/19 is hurting the Pacers popularity in Indianapolis. I really don't. 30 point blowouts hurt fan interest more than anything


injuries, ron artest drama, stephen jackson among others.

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 03:16 PM
I think there are some Pacer fans who will complain regardless.

However, the brawl made people consider JO, Jackson, and Dustpan bad people. My dad for one loved JO the summer of 04 and this Christmas went on and on about how he was worthless.

I don't have those negative feelings and it is a little frustrating because people don't think what I think. Oh well, I guess you have to allow people their feelings.

PacerNthaDesert
01-28-2006, 03:19 PM
Sometimes I get tired of having 2-3 guys out with injuries and watching backups play all the time, thats why I don't tune in every game. I want to see a quality product.

PacerFan31
01-28-2006, 03:23 PM
This is trash, it shows just how fair weather this state is. When the Colts are doing good, by God everyone is a Colts fan, but when they are losing, screw them.

Same with the Pacers, come playoff time, the Fieldhouse is packed and it is an atmosphere like no other, but when they are struggling, forget it.

This is trash and it pisses me off that things are like this. I wish the people that weren't fans all the time would just go away and not bother rooting for them.

grace
01-28-2006, 03:33 PM
This is trash, it shows just how fair weather this state is. When the Colts are doing good, by God everyone is a Colts fan, but when they are losing, screw them.

Same with the Pacers, come playoff time, the Fieldhouse is packed and it is an atmosphere like no other, but when they are struggling, forget it.

This is trash and it pisses me off that things are like this. I wish the people that weren't fans all the time would just go away and not bother rooting for them.

I refuse to tell people how to spend their extra money. If you'd rather save your money and go to the playoffs so be it. If you only have enough money to go to a Colts game or a Pacer game I don't blame you for going to watch the team that's actually winning on a consistant basis.

If you only want die hard Pacer fans at the games then you'll have plenty of room to spread out as the size of the crowd will rival that of games in Atlanta.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
01-28-2006, 03:34 PM
I think the injuries are probably a big part of. NBA is all about star-power and we just dont have much of that. Casual fans want to see the high-flyers like Lebron and Kobe.

I dont really think the public sees JO as a bad man, if they did in the past I think he has probably redeemed himself through his "Im going to be the leader" campaign.

@UB
Through the TV, it seemed like the crowd was pretty pathetic most of the game. The commentators even talked about it, saying something like "Ive never seen so many fans up and walking around during a game". It didnt really seem like the crowd got into the game until we got our first lead, late in the 4th.

To be honest, I was a bit ashamed considering how hard our guys were playing the whole game last night.

grace
01-28-2006, 03:40 PM
Through the TV, it seemed like the crowd was pretty pathetic most of the game. The commentators even talked about it, saying something like "Ive never seen so many fans up and walking around during a game".

The only reason they commented about people up walking around is because they walked right in front of them.

As for whether the crowd cheers or not I'm pretty much numb to it anymore. Like my sig used to say "I just don't care."

Bball
01-28-2006, 05:13 PM
No one has come right and said this, but do you think that the brawl in and of itself 11/19 is hurting the Pacers popularity in Indianapolis. I really don't. 30 point blowouts hurt fan interest more than anything

I think people have had questions about this team for a long while. Especially about its character at the core. As much good as the 03-04 season did to ease some of that (Artest in the playoffs not withstanding), 11/19 probably seemingly confirmed many's worst fears about the character and makeup of the team. It firmly darkened the cloud that already was above the team.

And, IMHO, much of the concern was valid. We've not had, and still do not yet possess, a mentally strong team. These aren't necessarily a group of players that could put 11/19 behind them very easily.

The 30 point blowouts go hand in hand with the whole cloud that continues to rain down on the team. Nobody likes losing. And nobody likes losing when there's a severe lack of effort or heart displayed.

11/19 didn't cause the disconnect but it's certainly polarized it to some extent. And these players are having trouble rising above it... perhaps, not surprisingly when you take a step back and try to be objective about it.

And management hasn't helped by doing very little about it. They threw no one under the bus and made no one accountable. They also didn't try to shift the blame or fight the suspensions (publically anyway) and rise above it that way. They simply hoped it would go away and work itself out. Typical Pacer response...

The problems don't start and end with Artest.

-Bball

Shade
01-28-2006, 05:19 PM
I'm not surprised by this at all. The Pacers have lost Reggie and play a boring style of basketball. Mix in the loss of our contender status, and it all makes sense.

With that said, I hope those bandwagoners don't come back if we manage to rebuild into a contender in the next few years. Losing NutBoy is a step in the right direction to bring back in the fans, but there will have to be an overall attitude overhaul to keep it goin'.

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 05:25 PM
I don't like the term mentally tough. I think it is a term people throw around because it is hard to prove or disprove.

In my opinion there are only two mentally tough teams the Spurs and Pistons. The only way a team proves that they are mentally tough is to win a championship.

I mean were the 99 Pacers mentally tough when they fell apart against NY?

I also strongly disagree that people did not like the 61 win team or that that team did not give effort.

Bball
01-28-2006, 05:35 PM
I don't like the term mentally tough. I think it is a term people throw around because it is hard to prove or disprove.

In my opinion there are only two mentally tough teams the Spurs and Pistons. The only way a team proves that they are mentally tough is to win a championship.

I disagree...
They prove it by keeping their head in the game. By not getting unneeded and untimely technical fouls. By passing the ball to an open teammate rather than pressing the offense just because their man scored on them or they haven't scored in a few possessions. They do it by sticking with the game plan. They do it by walking the walk after they talk the talk. They do it by not thumping their chests after a dunk... in a game where they're down by 15+ points. They do it by not CONSTANTLY harping with the refs. They do it by not allowing an opponent to get in their head. They do it by not pouting on the bench. They do it by caring about the teammates. They do it by caring about the scoreboard, not their stat line.




I also strongly disagree that people did not like the 61 win team or that that team did not give effort.

That team wasn't as popular as it could've been but I don't think anyone has argued that they weren't 'liked' or that they didn't give effort.

-Bball

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 05:42 PM
OK, name a mentally tough team that hasn't won a championship.

Bball, you said you think that people had a nagging feeling about the team's character and that they weren't as popular as they could have been. That is saying that they weren't well recieved.

Bball
01-28-2006, 06:14 PM
OK, name a mentally tough team that hasn't won a championship.

.

I'm not sure I follow your point. Of course mentally tough teams win championships. It is one of the requirements to getting one (IMHO). But just being mentally tough may not get it done alone. I'm sure there are plenty of teams that have been mentally tough thru the years that haven't won a championship.

-Bball

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 06:22 PM
You agree with me that the Pistons and Spurs are mentally tough right? I'm just saying that mentally tough is an attributed to a team after they win a championship. If you disagree name a team that is mental tough but hasn't won a championship.

Peck
01-28-2006, 06:28 PM
None of this suprises me.

I've come online for 6 years now & asked if people feel as connected to this team as they have in the past.

It's been apperant to me that there has been a big disconnect between the fans & this team since the 00 season.

Yes, sure online here the team is almost always well recieved. But there just has not been a buzz about this team in this town since the old team left.

Even the great 61 win team did not generate general public interest.

Why? I think it has to do with some of the characters of this club.

Like it or not fans in Indiana don't get behind immature players very well. I know some of you will find this hard to believe but Reggie was not universally loved in this town until after the mid-90's.

But even the biggest Reggie detractors never had a problem with Reggie the player off of the court or thought badly of him as a team mate.

Ron obviously was a magnate. He was like the Beatles in the fact that you either loved him or hated him but you knew who he was. I think the problem there was that while some people loved him most people (including the ones that love him) didn't trust him.

But let's not let J.O. off of the hook in this either. Many considered him a punk prima dona when he got here & some have never changed their minds.

We've never had a player as good as he was, but we never had a player a self centered as he was.

Take into the melting pot Jamaal Tinsley & Stephen Jackson. In those two you have players that the general fan just does not like.

The fact that this article even mentions Dale Davis & Brad Miller by name made me think that it was written just for me.:)

But also on top of this Shade hit one thing dead on. The Pacers play a boring style of basketball.

Now while Uncle Buck loves this & he will correctly say that people like winning the problem is that is litteraly devolves into a style of basketball that Hoosiers (& I'll throw my European friends in here as well) can't stand.

Isolation, individual basketball.

I'll go ahead & admit it now. Even when we were winning 61 games I could not stand & still cannot stand the "throw it to Jermaine" or even the "throw it to Ron" or the "throw it to Al" system that created no ball movement, no player movement & resulted in one guy dribbling the ball for 6-8 seconds before he would turn around for a fadeaway jump shot.

Yes, it may be a style of winning basketball. But it's boring & here is the problem, it's NOT the only style of winning basketball that there is.

Do I want a free flowing 80's style of Denver game? No, Hell no.

But look at the Larry Brown Pacer teams & you will see a team that played killer defense & still had a variety of offensive sets.

We built this team on Ron & Jermaine & that was flawed from the get go. Not only because Ron was unstable, but Jermaine was not the most mature human being either.

I don't think the fans connect with anybody on this team yet.

Now there is hope though. Danny Granger could be that person but the problem is I don't know if his religion will allow him to be in commercials for the club.

I'm not kidding, I don't know.

If he could & if he could learn to smile the Pacers right now should start running commercials with him in them.

He's knew & has no baggage.

Bball
01-28-2006, 06:32 PM
Teams that know how to win in the crunch, aren't constantly whining, know how to play together, to put their differences aside,etc are mentally tough. Any team that is a true contender will ultimately be mentally tough. There are of course degrees here. Any of the top teams in the league are mentally tough to one degree or another. It's not something exclusice to a champion. And the Spurs won last year but that doesn't make Detroit mentally weak.

I guess I'm not following your point unless you claim there can only be one mentally tough team... or that once a team wins a championship they will be mentally tough forever.

The Pacers circa 94-2000 were mentally tough (IMO) and never won a championship.

Maybe we are debating the difference in our definitions???

-BBall

Moses
01-28-2006, 06:33 PM
Let the fairweather fans walk. If you don't support your team even in their off years then you can't really call yourself a true fan. Like someone else said, I would watch the Pacers irregardless of how they played.

BlueNGold
01-28-2006, 06:36 PM
The Pacers are full of players that hurt the team, (arguring calls and not getiing back, slow getting off the floor, etc.) fans don't like that, so this team isn't liked. And now since it's not winning, the casual fan doesn't want to watch it.
That hits the mark. Maybe my memory is fading, but this is the worst Pacer team in terms of consistent effort, chemistry and maturity...perhaps in the history of the franchise.

Casual fans have a multitude of reasons to be leave...and probably will to some extent. ...but my interest in the team has not waned one bit. I think management has made some mistakes, but they have acknowledged them and are in the beginning process of moving on. Seeing things develop is a big part of being a true fan.

pacercoltfan
01-28-2006, 06:37 PM
Let the fairweather fans walk. If you don't support your team even in their off years then you can't really call yourself a true fan. Like someone else said, I would watch the Pacers irregardless of how they played.

DITTO! A true fan supports their team win or lose! I don't care if we lose every game remaining I'll still support them!

They might make me mad, but win or lose I'll still support them!

:gopacers:

Kstat
01-28-2006, 06:45 PM
I've always said the season I remember most isn't the championship years, it was 93-94, when we went 20-62.

If you don't go through the tough times, you don't appreciate the highs nearly as much.

pacercoltfan
01-28-2006, 07:12 PM
Did they not notice that when they saw the fans walking around that it was the beginning of the 3rd quarter. Geeze can't people get up to go to the bathroom, get some food, etc.

Doug in CO
01-28-2006, 07:20 PM
The marketing aspect of the Pacers has been atrocious of late. In fact there hasn't been a good campaign since Fred Hoiberg rode with his head out the window and Chris Mullin was hitch hiking to town. Of course nothing will ever top Dale Davis alternating between telling Boomer he loved him and threatening fans because he knows where we live.

You don't think "ONE GOAL" is working anymore?

owl
01-28-2006, 07:21 PM
DITTO! A true fan supports their team win or lose! I don't care if we lose every game remaining I'll still support them!

They might make me mad, but win or lose I'll still support them!

:gopacers:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Originally Posted by Moses
Let the fairweather fans walk. If you don't support your team even in their off years then you can't really call yourself a true fan. Like someone else said, I would watch the Pacers irregardless of how they played.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

I understand your sentiment but that does not pay the Pacers bills and
does not help with advertising. The casual fan is what they have to
attract on a regular basis and when you run them off with a poor
product you can real hurt the franchise. The Pacers have to get it going in the right direction. I would start with Granger, Saras, Croshere(for the right price), JO, and probably Harrison. If Peja can be re-signed and he still has
game left in him sign him up. Freddie is a good egg and again should be
re-signed for the right price. Donnie is going to have to be more adept at
signing young players to long contracts. Choose the right player to do that
with. Granger would probably be a safe bet. Harrison is not so safe a bet.

owl


owl

pacercoltfan
01-28-2006, 07:28 PM
I am not for sure, but I do think that was like 2 or 3 minutes into the third, and dont most people take breaks during the halfs (I know thats what I did at Redskins games, I could have cared less about the halftime entertainment)



When did it work to start off with?............

That's what I was getting at. They were probably heading back to their seats. Halftime is when I usually go get some food or go to the bathroom.

Will Galen
01-28-2006, 07:46 PM
Now there is hope though. Danny Granger could be that person but the problem is I don't know if his religion will allow him to be in commercials for the club.

I'm not kidding, I don't know.



His religion wouldn't be a problem there at all.

Outlaw
01-28-2006, 08:16 PM
I understand your sentiment but that does not pay the Pacers bills and
does not help with advertising. The casual fan is what they have to
attract on a regular basis and when you run them off with a poor
product you can real hurt the franchise. The Pacers have to get it going in the right direction. I would start with Granger, Saras, Croshere(for the right price), JO, and probably Harrison. If Peja can be re-signed and he still has
game left in him sign him up. Freddie is a good egg and again should be
re-signed for the right price. Donnie is going to have to be more adept at
signing young players to long contracts. Choose the right player to do that
with. Granger would probably be a safe bet. Harrison is not so safe a bet.

owl


owl[/quote]

You are correct,the casual fan is what makes the difference in the bottom line for the Franchise.You do NOT want to alienate them.

While it is easy to get upset with them they have other options available to them for their entertainment dollar.The Pacers have to put a product on the floor that will entice the average person to want to come and see.

Indiana basketball fans generally know whether the game is being played the right way and with EFFORT.When they see guys making millions not giving an all out effort,they tend not to be interested.

As some have already said the attitude of todays players are a real turn off.I hate it when someone dunks or blocks a shot and thinks he has to pose or whatever else for the highlight reel.I remember when Dr.J would dunk on someone he would run back down the court and play defense.NOT stand and pose or stare the opponent down.

I think there is no RESPECT anymore.Guys used to try NOT to show up the other team. But now it's done on a nightly basis.Because everybody is out to get theirs.It is not about the team anymore it is about SELF & MONEY.

Example of this is Jax(though not the only one) who came here saying he would do WHATEVER it takes to win.Yet he sulks if he does not get the touches he thinks he deserves.He has yet to show ANY of that championship experience.On top of it all that he is a hot head.All he done in S.A. was ride the coattails of Tim Duncan & the likes.IMO

The casual fan does not relate to to the showboating & arrogant attitude of some of our players and the NBA in general.I sometimes have a hard time wanting to see this stuff.I try to block it out but admit SOMETIMES it is hard to do.It should be about the GAME not self promotion.Which I believe is Stern fault for promoting players instead of TEAM.You don't have to look no further than Christmas day.Shaq vs. Kobe was promoted to death not the OTHER game which had the two BEST TEAMS playing each other.

I give up maybe I just don't get this generation of athletes?:confused: Maybe the casual fan sess the same thing.

Unclebuck
01-28-2006, 08:21 PM
Granger isn't Morman he is Jehovah Witness - isn't he. Same as the Williams sisters. And they do plenty of commercials

If you ever notice he won't look at the flag during the national anthem, the theory being you don't worship anything but God.

Outlaw
01-28-2006, 08:25 PM
He is a Jehovah's Witness.

grace
01-28-2006, 09:29 PM
I dis-agree with you here, but then again, I am weird. I enjoy seeing the fans cheer a little bit and give the players some energy and kind of spark a fire under there asses when they start to play like the did last night.

I understand you can cheer for every play (you can, but its only for a Dallas-Skins game, rule is you cant sit during that game) but like others said, it seemed like the fans only cheered in the last 5 minutes. I would have liked to see the fans get a little more hyped earlier in the 4th quarter.

But thats just my .02

As Kegboy will attest I used to cheer all the time. Then it got to the point where I felt like I was the only one cheering. That ended up being the [insert number here] reason why I didn't renew my season tickets.

Kegboy
01-28-2006, 11:59 PM
That ended up being the [insert number here] reason why I didn't renew my season tickets.

15th.

As for complaints about our boring system, it's just as boring as it was under Bird, cause it's the same system, just different players that aren't as good. Nothing was more boring than our offense in 2000. You could make an argument that people came out since we were winning, but I've come to the conclusion that it was due to the new building.

Hicks
01-29-2006, 12:26 AM
You could make an argument that people came out since we were winning, but I've come to the conclusion that it was due to the new building.

Yeah, it was the new building, but the biggest reason was that that team was pretty well liked/loved by this state. Not to mention the individual love for Reggie, Dale, et al. AND they were a contender that won 56 games.

larry
01-29-2006, 02:11 AM
well were picked so high and then the weak effort. the players and fans were good last night. i think we will be fine. i pick and choos my games. i always catch the playoffs and the lakers. used 2 love the games w/ ny. the playoffs aren't a lock. we need a win!

Peck
01-29-2006, 03:29 AM
15th.

As for complaints about our boring system, it's just as boring as it was under Bird, cause it's the same system, just different players that aren't as good. Nothing was more boring than our offense in 2000. You could make an argument that people came out since we were winning, but I've come to the conclusion that it was due to the new building.

The new building had a lot to do with corperations buying tix. I'm sure casual fans bought one or two games to see the building.

But at the end of the day you had a group that had been together for a long time that was an actual contender & for the most part people liked them & believed they had a real live chance at a title.

Sadly we ran into King Kong in the finals & he was just not going to be denied.

You were there, the fans believed.

Was it Reggie? Yes.

Was it Jalen? Believe it or not Yes as well.

It was Rik, Dale, Mark, Travis, etc., etc.

They were a team & the fans knew & trusted them.

You can't say that now.

Believe_in_blue
01-29-2006, 04:16 AM
The new building had a lot to do with corperations buying tix. I'm sure casual fans bought one or two games to see the building.

But at the end of the day you had a group that had been together for a long time that was an actual contender & for the most part people liked them & believed they had a real live chance at a title.

Sadly we ran into King Kong in the finals & he was just not going to be denied.

You were there, the fans believed.

Was it Reggie? Yes.

Was it Jalen? Believe it or not Yes as well.

It was Rik, Dale, Mark, Travis, etc., etc.

They were a team & the fans knew & trusted them.

You can't say that now.
That team just had so much character. This team actually does, but it just seems to be negative character. Damn I miss the 2000 team.

Downtown Threat
01-29-2006, 06:48 AM
Can Peja Stojakovic lift Pacers out of their funk?Lets put it this way, there is a lot of Serbian population around the world that just started following the Pacers thanks to Pedja.

There are some of us that are still Kings fans but keep an eye on Pacers now that Pedja is on this team.:)

Roaming Gnome
01-29-2006, 10:02 AM
One thing about the building... Conseco seats 18,345 while MSA only seated 16,530. Even after the new-ness of the Fieldhouse wore off, we are still packing them in better then we were at the Madhouse on Market. Isn't MSA's capcity number pretty close to what our average attendance number is now?