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SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 08:21 AM
There's a site that's worth following:
www.fiyastarter.com (http://www.fiyastarter.com)

1. These guys provide some refreshing plainspoken funny NBA and rookies rankings/comments each (or sometimes every second) weekend. They aren't diplomatic, but they really provide some gems time to time. There are some from the past:

http://fiyastarter.com/fs-pages/fs-sports-nbarank05-8.htm

No.1 Pistons. They lost a game and then went back to the lockerroom and laughed for an hour about how good they are.

No.4 Grizzlies. All jokes aside, this team plays the right way, because they aren't coached by Larry ****ing Brown.

No.13 T-Wolves. I would pay to see the looks Spree's relatives give him these days. That's gotta be some uncut comedy right there.

No.15 Lakers. Asked to comment on his two-game suspension, a smirking Kobe stated: "I respect the League's ruling, but I still think it's little unfair. I mean, it's not like a raped someone." Then, he got in his Benz and drove away laughing like a meglomaniac who had James Bond in a deathtrap. I still don't know why people hate him.

No.16 Magic. For all the kids out there who never saw G. Hill's first step in his prime, let me put it this way: The nigga used to get the ball, stand there and freeze his man, then he'd take off like Chevy Chase on that sled in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

No.17 Nuggets. Steve Deberg's pinky to Marcus Camby's pinky: "You're a fuc*ing pus*y, dude."

No.20 Bulls. The Bulls paid 60 mill to an overrated big man with a bad heart after all. Funny how that worked out.

No.21 Wizards. Etan Thomas expressed his feelings about the season with the following Haiku:
Damn, fans. We Sorry.
Lots of Offense, No defense.
I'm still rich though, fans.

No.27 Bobcats. Asked to comment on Emeka Okafor's latest injury, an irate Bernie Bickerstaff replied, "**** you! And **** Dwight Howard! There you go. That's my comment. Happy? Print that. Bye."

No.29 Knicks. Captain's Log: StarDate 6871.3: We have just passed through a severe magnetic storm. Three of our crewman are dead and LARRY BROWN STILL HASN'T SET HIS ****ING STARTING LINEUP!!!! *******!!! KAAAAAAAAHN!!!!


2. On the other hand, I have to warn those who might get interested in that site that they might not like what they'll read there about Pacers. I'm starting to have mixed feelings about these guys myself, as they emerged as true Pacers-haters (and especially Larry Bird-haters) during several latter months and are rather offensive time to time:

"Sources have revealed that an Artest deal with an unidentified team is being held up because Bad Dad is trying to include the parental rights to his daughter Corrie in the transaction. What a scumbag."

"With Ron Artest no longer standing in the way, one has to wonder why Steal O' The Draft, Danny Granger hasn't stepped up for the Pacers. Oh, I know. Because he some bull****."

"Peja isn't the answer for the underachieving Pacers, who still have no center, nor do they have a threat at point guard, a position Bad Dad tried to shore up with a Euro Guard with worse knees than Daryl Walker and Pat Ewing both standing in line for Prince tickets at the Garden."

"Sarunas Jasikevicius: Now, I remember where I know him from… HE WAS A DAMN SCRUB AT MARYLAND!"

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 08:29 AM
Still, the guy has great sense of humor:)

Kestas
01-28-2006, 09:34 AM
Still, the guy has great sense of humor:)

don't apologise for critisizing someone ;)
judging from your quotes he really is lacking certain knowledge about this team, and the lack of knowledge is hard to hide even behind the good sense of humor imho.. besides, I can hardly spot humor in the quote about Granger, even disregarding the way he played. this is just some childish rant, that's it.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 09:51 AM
That one with Granger was rather old one, several weeks into the Artest drama. I would've agreed with that quote back then too.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 09:58 AM
don't apologise for critisizing someone ;)


It's hard not to do that - I think they really fill an open gap of "strong" humour in today's basketball-related articles. I like the guys. They are like Ali G in basketball media. The exact knowledge is thus not really important for what they do...

On the other hand, it sometimes hurts me to hear their comments on Sarunas, Larry Bird, Larry Brown - they did very much during their carees and don't deserve that negativity.

Kegboy
01-28-2006, 10:45 AM
"Sources have revealed that an Artest deal with an unidentified team is being held up because Bad Dad is trying to include the parental rights to his daughter Corrie in the transaction. What a scumbag."

Huh. Guess I'm gonna have to ask my sister when she started writing for them.

:runout:

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 11:03 AM
On the other hand, it sometimes hurts me to hear their comments on Sarunas, Larry Bird, Larry Brown - they did very much during their carees and don't deserve that negativity.

Sarunas? Career?

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Sarunas? Career?

Yes, why?

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 12:10 PM
Yes, why?

If you consider being a backup for 41 games on a .500 team to be high career accomplishments which render him immune from criticism then I suggest you discuss topics other than basketball.

Perhaps you're thinking about his minor league career - where he went to play because he wasn't considered good enough to be an NBA player at the time. If that's the case then you should find an article discussing the Euro Leagues - not the NBA. Then you can talk about his god-like career accomplishments.

I hate to break it to you but he hasn't accomplished squat in the NBA.

indygeezer
01-28-2006, 12:20 PM
If you consider being a backup for 41 games on a .500 team to be high career accomplishments which render him immune from criticism then I suggest you discuss topics other than basketball.

Perhaps you're thinking about his minor league career - where he went to play because he wasn't considered good enough to be an NBA player at the time. If that's the case then you should find an article discussing the Euro Leagues - not the NBA. Then you can talk about his god-like career accomplishments.

I hate to break it to you but he hasn't accomplished squat in the NBA.


And we all know the NBA is the epicenter of basketball. Nobody else is capable of playing better bball. They have NEVER lost at an Olympic or World Games competition. They should erect statues on Mt Olympus to even the least of the NBA scrubs. SOrry Rim, I usually agree with what you write, but on this NBA elitism I take exception. I keep reading it and yet the NBA stars keep losing. Send our best? They are given the chance, they refuse it. But if we are so elite we should be able to win anyway.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 12:42 PM
If you consider being a backup for 41 games on a .500 team to be high career accomplishments which render him immune from criticism then I suggest you discuss topics other than basketball.

Perhaps you're thinking about his minor league career - where he went to play because he wasn't considered good enough to be an NBA player at the time. If that's the case then you should find an article discussing the Euro Leagues - not the NBA. Then you can talk about his god-like career accomplishments.

I hate to break it to you but he hasn't accomplished squat in the NBA.

:(
....
(I'm on my way to find an article discussing the Euroleagues and international basketball, so that I could continue posting)

:)

grace
01-28-2006, 01:06 PM
Huh. Guess I'm gonna have to ask my sister when she started writing for them.

:runout:

Yes, that's me and I also hijacked DisplacedKnick's account and voiced my opinion about the new guy...I mean the new guy before Peja.

denyfizle
01-28-2006, 02:10 PM
sound like an idiot to me

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 03:30 PM
And we all know the NBA is the epicenter of basketball. Nobody else is capable of playing better bball. They have NEVER lost at an Olympic or World Games competition. They should erect statues on Mt Olympus to even the least of the NBA scrubs. SOrry Rim, I usually agree with what you write, but on this NBA elitism I take exception. I keep reading it and yet the NBA stars keep losing. Send our best? They are given the chance, they refuse it. But if we are so elite we should be able to win anyway.

That's not the point and you know it.

The point is that he posted an article discussing play in the NBA - then says that Sarunas' career has been such that he is above criticism.

Sorry but I don't consider 41 games as a backup on a midelevel team to be such a spectacular accomplishment as to put him beyond reproach. Granted, I was a bit derogatory re the Euro leagues which may or may not be valid, but the article wasn't about Euro ball - and the fact is that Sarunas was a superstar there, and a backup here.

As for the US performance - that's directly related to how important US players seem to find the Olympics. IMO we should go back to using college players - at least they'll think it's meaningful.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 03:53 PM
That's not the point and you know it.

The point is that he posted an article discussing play in the NBA - then says that Sarunas' career has been such that he is above criticism.

Sorry but I don't consider 41 games as a backup on a midelevel team to be such a spectacular accomplishment as to put him beyond reproach. Granted, I was a bit derogatory re the Euro leagues which may or may not be valid, but the article wasn't about Euro ball - and the fact is that Sarunas was a superstar there, and a backup here.

As for the US performance - that's directly related to how important US players seem to find the Olympics. IMO we should go back to using college players - at least they'll think it's meaningful.

I believe what I said was that Sarunas does not deserve to be called a "Euro Guard with worse knees than Daryl Walker and Pat Ewing both standing in line for Prince tickets at the Garden." or a damn scrub from Maryland, wasn't it? I don't really understand your point.

In any case, as I said, I like the sense of humour of those guys generally, so I don't mind them talking;) Even though I think that these particular statements are rather offensive and undeserved.

Kestas
01-28-2006, 04:47 PM
If you consider being a backup for 41 games on a .500 team to be high career accomplishments which render him immune from criticism then I suggest you discuss topics other than basketball.

Perhaps you're thinking about his minor league career - where he went to play because he wasn't considered good enough to be an NBA player at the time. If that's the case then you should find an article discussing the Euro Leagues - not the NBA. Then you can talk about his god-like career accomplishments.

I hate to break it to you but he hasn't accomplished squat in the NBA.

you don't have to even try it in NBA to be have a superb career. there are World or Olympic champions and international superstars, who never even went to NBA and never will. people like Bodiroga or Galis will never be forgotten, while players like Jarmaine O'Neil or Gilbert Arenas (whatever) are destined to become just some names in the overcrowded hystory of NBA, that no one will remember in a few decades.

Saras is a basketball celebrity with followers all aournd the globe, he's Number. 2 European player for two years in a row with names like Parker, Gasol, Kirilenko - all behind him. if that's not a sign of a brilliant career to you, then, I'm afraid, you know nothing about sports ;)

Kstat
01-28-2006, 04:54 PM
you don't have to even try it in NBA to be have a superb career. there are World or Olympic champions and international superstars, who never even went to NBA and never will. people like Bodiroga or Galis will never be forgotten, while players like Jarmaine O'Neil or Gilbert Arenas (whatever) are destined to become just some names in the overcrowded hystory of NBA, that no one will remember in a few decades.

Saras is a basketball celebrity with followers all aournd the globe, he's Number. 2 European player for two years in a row with names like Parker, Gasol, Kirilenko - all behind him. if that's not a sign of a brilliant career to you, then, I'm afraid, you know nothing about sports ;)

Here's a hint:

Your hero isn't in Europe anymore. If he wanted to have his *** kissed for the rest of his life, he should have stayed there.

He's in the NBA now, he's done NOTHING to prove himself as an NBA player, and nobody really cares what he did anywhere else.

I'm sure he had a superb career in the cutthroat Euroleagues. But nobody in the NBA really cares.

I've seen Bodiroga quite a few times, and I really love watching him play. But if he ever went to the NBA, he'd have to start from scratch just like any other rookie. Frankly, I think he made the better choice staying in the Euroleagues, because I never thought he was good enough to play in the NBA. He reminds me of an and-1 street-baller that gets by because he doesnt play against anybody quick enough to knock his dribble away.

Hicks
01-28-2006, 04:55 PM
I care what he did. And I know I'm not alone (by far). I'm sick of this elitist attitude crap.

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 05:02 PM
In the NBA Saras' name doesn't belong in the same in as Larry Brown and Larry Bird. I'm happy for him that Europe loves him. Really, I am but why should followers of the NBA care? (By the way I will consider the NBA the best league in the world untill Euro's that are unable to sign in Euroleague start signing to NBA teams.)

Kestas
01-28-2006, 05:08 PM
As for the US performance - that's directly related to how important US players seem to find the Olympics. IMO we should go back to using college players - at least they'll think it's meaningful.

but they will lose misserably, so what's the point? :/
don't forget that your U-21 national team with Reddick and co. finished only fifth in the recent World Championships loosing to.. Canada in the quarter finals. that team would be annihilated by the top-15 men's squads in the World championships.

and what's all that "they had bad attitude" during the Olympics? did Iverson had bad attitude? or maybe you're accusing Tim Duncan of not trying his best? what about Lebron, Okafor, Marion, Odom, Dwane Wade or Richard Jefferson? or maybe Larry Brown went there dreaming about bronze?
the whole of USA basketball public, official and fans (you including? ;)), had bad attitude, not those players. the players had the best attitude they could imho. they are just a part of the system, the most visible reflection of it. they were told they will win easily and they didn't even live in the Olympic vilage - what kind of different attitude could there be? and when it finally turned out that they were hopeless (20+ loss to eventual 6th place finisher Puerto Rico in an opening game), it was already too late for changes. what's amusing with the upcoming Worlds in Japan is that US public is again being told US will win easily. will you ever learn? ;)

Kestas
01-28-2006, 05:15 PM
In the NBA Saras' name doesn't belong in the same in as Larry Brown and Larry Bird. I'm happy for him that Europe loves him. Really, I am but why should followers of the NBA care? (By the way I will consider the NBA the best league in the world untill Euro's that are unable to sign in Euroleague start signing to NBA teams.)

forget NBA or Euroleague. think wider. Saras is a superstar all around the globe not because he played well in European clubs (although that matters as well), but because he was a factor for Lithuania in the international competitions.
and of course he's not up there with Bird, - Bird is the member of the Dream Team. but Saras has not achieved all he is capable of yet. at least I hope so :neutral: of course, I may be wrong..

Kestas
01-28-2006, 05:24 PM
I've seen Bodiroga quite a few times, and I really love watching him play. But if he ever went to the NBA, he'd have to start from scratch just like any other rookie. Frankly, I think he made the better choice staying in the Euroleagues, because I never thought he was good enough to play in the NBA. He reminds me of an and-1 street-baller that gets by because he doesnt play against anybody quick enough to knock his dribble away.

I'm well awere of your incompetence in these matters, no need to remind ;)

and sure, Saras's NBA carreer is still very pale, so to speak. nothing to really talk about. mind you the initial remark by Swiss did not include "NBA" in it.
his international career is doing very well though. his image may be harmed if he does not improve his performance in NBA, deffinitely. most fans did expect him to be starting by the end of this season. but if he goes to Japan with LTU and LTU wins a medal (that would be mighty hard, but possible), he'll regain his good name again.

and with this I must quit before it's too late ;)

fifo
01-28-2006, 05:25 PM
[quote=Kstat]
I'm sure he had a superb career in the cutthroat Euroleagues. But nobody in the NBA really cares.
quote]


Got it!!
I just figured out why all those NBA scouts are hanging around in the Euroleague games, and why Larry keeps traveling to Europe. Its to show how much they don't care..:rolleyes:

Arcadian
01-28-2006, 05:26 PM
The fact of the matter is Saras isn't a superstar in America. I honestly do like him but it doesn't mean that he still doesn't have to earn respect in the NBA.

fifo
01-28-2006, 05:28 PM
The fact of the matter is Saras isn't a superstar in America. I honestly do like him but it doesn't mean that he still doesn't have to earn respect in the NBA.

Agreed.

:boomer:

Moses
01-28-2006, 05:31 PM
Saras is a rookie as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure what you guys expected from him his very first year..The 3 point line is further out and he is playing SG, so it's only natural he would struggle. On top of that, Carlisle's system makes it so that no PG is capable of getting more then 6-7 assists.

I think Saras will develop into a top-3 3 point shooter in this league in the next few years.

fifo
01-28-2006, 05:35 PM
On top of that, Carlisle's system makes it so that no PG is capable of getting more then 6-7 assists.

Can you Explain?

Kestas
01-28-2006, 05:36 PM
The fact of the matter is Saras isn't a superstar in America. I honestly do like him but it doesn't mean that he still doesn't have to earn respect in the NBA.

that's a fact, surely. but Swiss wasn't mentioning "USA" in his remark either.. USA isn't everything. Europe is much larger in terms of poppulation. then there's Australia, certain countries in Southern America, where people follow and love international basketball..
but I get your point and fully agree with it. Saras is more or less just another NBA player right now.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 05:36 PM
but Saras has not achieved all he is capable of yet. at least I hope so :neutral: of course, I may be wrong..

I hope so too:)
Also, I must say I sincerely enjoy how much emotions - even though negative sometimes - Saras's name provokes both among European and American basketball fans. That's exactly my image of Saras's place in the game - the engine of emotions.

Moses
01-28-2006, 05:36 PM
Can you Explain?
Rotating 3 PGs constantly and the fact that the last time we had a double digit assist man was last year it seems. When you throw it down to JO and let him create for 5 seconds, it doesn't count as an assist. Go back and look at all the box scores. None of our PGs are getting any dimes out.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 05:39 PM
Rick prefers his guards to be shooters, not passers.

rexnom
01-28-2006, 05:40 PM
Is there any doubt that the NBA is tougher than the Euroleagues? Is there any doubt that most NBA starters could go over to Europe and become as big of a legend as Saras? On the flipside, this does not mean that Saras isn't a great player. In fact, I think he realized he outgrew the Euroleagues and had to come here. If an NBA starter went to Europe, soon he'd outgrow it. Some players are just meant for the NBA, some aren't. I think Saras is, I don't think Bodiroga is. Just the fact that there are so many international Pacer fans proves how great he already is.

fifo
01-28-2006, 05:47 PM
Rick prefers his guards to be shooters, not passers.

Maybe, but both Tins and Saras are great passers, and I keep wondering about their low assists numbers.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 05:55 PM
Maybe, but both Tins and Saras are great passers, and I keep wondering about their low assists numbers.

Carlisle's offense typically ranks in the lower third in the NBA in assists.

There was one year, 2004, where his team finished 12th, which was by far the most assists he's ever had on any team.

Moses
01-28-2006, 05:57 PM
Maybe, but both Tins and Saras are great passers, and I keep wondering about their low assists numbers.
To many of our players create their own shots. You can't really rack up assists when you throw it to JO down on the low post every play or when Stephen gets the ball, holds it for 20 seconds, then jacks up a 3 pointer. Tinsley and Sarunas are both extremely skilled passers who would excel in a fast break style offense..but due to Ricks slow half-court offense, you don't see to many dimes as an Indiana fan.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 05:57 PM
Is there any doubt that the NBA is tougher than the Euroleagues? Is there any doubt that most NBA starters could go over to Europe and become as big of a legend as Saras? On the flipside, this does not mean that Saras isn't a great player. In fact, I think he realized he outgrew the Euroleagues and had to come here. If an NBA starter went to Europe, soon he'd outgrow it. Some players are just meant for the NBA, some aren't. I think Saras is, I don't think Bodiroga is. Just the fact that there are so many international Pacer fans proves how great he already is.

To reach Saras's fanbase in Europe one would need a bit more than talent of NBA starter. Firstly, one would need to be a leader of his national team and lead it in a memorable way. That's because international competitions attract more attention among European fans than ordinary Euroleague club competitions. Saras is mostly known for his leadership in Lithuanian NT, which played extrodinary attactive basketball and reached some memorable victories. Secondly, he would need to have interesting personality. Basketball isn't very popular in Europe per se, it's way less popular than soccer. Thus a very talented NBA starter won't necessarily become well known in Europe. He would have to be interesting in some other way, like Lance Armstrong had to be interesting (as opposed to simply talented) to be noticed in US. E.g., several weeks ago I spoke with a group of Norwegians who had never heard of Arvydas Sabonis and Tim Duncan - just to illustrate the situation.

fifo
01-28-2006, 06:00 PM
Carlisle's offense typically ranks in the lower third in the NBA in assists.

There was one year, 2004, where his team finished 12th, which was by far the most assists he's ever had on any team.

You are a Kstat..
Anyway, usually high assists number goes together with good FG%. So do you know what's the case Carlisle's teams in that sense?

Kstat
01-28-2006, 06:05 PM
You are a Kstat..
Anyway, usually high assists number goes together with good FG%. So do you know what's the case Carlisle's teams in that sense?

You'd be right. Typically, there is a corrolation between team assists and FG%.

Carlisle's offense dictates neither. It's an offense that supports the defense. It dictates tempo. It's an offense that give the opposing team as few easy baskets as possible.

rexnom
01-28-2006, 06:09 PM
To reach Saras's fanbase in Europe one would need a bit more than talent of NBA starter. Firstly, one would need to be a leader of his national team and lead it in a memorable way. That's because international competitions attract more attention among European fans than ordinary Euroleague club competitions. Saras is mostly known for his leadership in Lithuanian NT, which played extrodinary attactive basketball and reached some memorable victories. Secondly, he would need to have interesting personality. Basketball isn't very popular in Europe per se, it's way less popular than soccer. Thus a very talented NBA starter won't necessarily become well known in Europe. He would have to be interesting in some other way, like Lance Armstrong had to be interesting (as opposed to simply talented) to be noticed in US. E.g., several weeks ago I spoke with a group of Norwegians who had never heard of Arvydas Sabonis and Tim Duncan - just to illustrate the situation.

While I agree with your sentiment I have to add a few things. Lance Armstrong is famous not only because of his accomplishment but also because of his heroic fight back from cancer. Also, I have lived in Europe and I know cycling isn't more popular than basketball. Also, there are many American players who succeed in Europe despite failing miserably in the NBA. Are you telling me Tyus Edny is more talented and has more "personality" than many "very talented" NBA starters? Again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think Saras is unique and a true icon(like how he almost punishes himself after every missed shot, very Birdesque) but like has been said before, he still has to prove himself in the NBA. Unfortunately, until he does, I can't really say he is one of the "greats" because the NBA is where you ultimately prove yourself. More now than ever. Even Gallis and Bodiroga might have given the NBA a harder, longer look had they started playing now

fifo
01-28-2006, 06:13 PM
You'd be right. Typically, there is a corrolation between team assists and FG%.

Carlisle's offense dictates neither. It's an offense that supports the defense. It dictates tempo. It's an offense that give the opposing team as few easy baskets as possible.

Ouch.
This sounds like an answer to the question:
Describe the most uninspiring basketball system you can come up with.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 06:17 PM
Ouch.
This sounds like an answer to the question:
Describe the most uninspiring basketball system you can come up with.

It's a proven winning formula.

However, as you said, a lot of players in the Carlisle era in both Detroit and Indiana have had problems with the offense, because it isn't an offense that lends itself very well to self-expression. It's a solid, winning formula, but players just have no fun playing in it.

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 06:20 PM
but they will lose misserably, so what's the point? :/
don't forget that your U-21 national team with Reddick and co. finished only fifth in the recent World Championships loosing to.. Canada in the quarter finals. that team would be annihilated by the top-15 men's squads in the World championships.

Uh, news flash - the US didn't win the Gold at the last Olympics. I know that's a shock for you.

Getting NBA players to go to the Olympics is like pulling teeth. If it's so tough for them to make it, let the college kids go.

Select 20 of them in May as finalists and as soon as school gets out, their job is to A) try to make the team and B) learn how to work together AS a team. They'll have nearly 3 months and I bet they play better basketball than the last team we sent. They may not win a medal but that's OK - at least they'll want to be there.


and what's all that "they had bad attitude" during the Olympics? did Iverson had bad attitude? or maybe you're accusing Tim Duncan of not trying his best? what about Lebron, Okafor, Marion, Odom, Dwane Wade or Richard Jefferson? or maybe Larry Brown went there dreaming about bronze?
the whole of USA basketball public, official and fans (you including? ;)), had bad attitude, not those players. the players had the best attitude they could imho. they are just a part of the system, the most visible reflection of it. they were told they will win easily and they didn't even live in the Olympic vilage - what kind of different attitude could there be? and when it finally turned out that they were hopeless (20+ loss to eventual 6th place finisher Puerto Rico in an opening game), it was already too late for changes. what's amusing with the upcoming Worlds in Japan is that US public is again being told US will win easily. will you ever learn? ;)

Are you for real? They wouldn't stay in the Olympic Village - they had to stay on a cruise ship. Maybe they thought rubbing shoulders with someone from a real, honest-to-God foreign country would give them a disease. How's that for attitude?

Yes - Duncan had a terrible attitude by about the 4th game. He was griping about the officials, started sulking because he couldn't stay on the court because of fouls, etc. You think his saying he'd never play in the Olympics again was because he enjoyed the experience? Wade, Lebron and Anthony hardly played because LB didn't think he could trust them. Marbury and Brown had a horrible time getting along. And as for Iverson, I don't know for sure how much time he spent learning the International Game and practicing at it but I can guess - it probably went something like this:

Allen Iverson
If I can't practice, I can't practice. It is as simple as that. It ain't about that at all. It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about practice. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're talking about practice. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it's my last but we're talking about practice man. How silly is that?

...we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice.
Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're talking about practice man. We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you've seen me play right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about practice right now.

Reporter
But [not going to practice is] an issue that your coach continues to raise?

Iverson
Hey I hear you, it's funny to me too. Hey it's strange to me too but we're talking about practice man, we're not even talking about the game, when it actually matters. We're talking about practice.

Reporter
Is it possible that if you practiced, not you, but you would make your teammates better?

Iverson
How in the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?

Reporter
So they can be used to playing with you.

Iverson
They should be used to playing with me. Those are my teammates. So my game is going to deteriorate because I'm not practicing with my teammates? Is my game is going to get worse? I'm asking you, is my game going to get worse? So what about my game? Is my game going to get better because other players are hurt on my team, I mean, do that hurt me? Do you think that hurts me? I'm being honest, people are hurt on my team but do that hurt me? Does that hurt me when I go out there and play 48 minutes, does that hurt me as a player? Does that hurt me if this person is hurt or that person is hurt? Do it hurt me?

Nope - Allen Iverson's never had an attitude problem or anything - I'm proud that he could represent our country. :rolleyes:

Send college kids. Kids who actually want to be there, if they win any medal it's an accomplishment, and people who'll actually take something away from the experience.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 06:24 PM
Rim, I'll agree with you on everything except Iverson.

Iverson was the one guy on the olympic team that made me proud. He truly DID want to be there, and he played like it.

I don't want Iverson to get lumped in with the rest because of his reputation. I was more than happy with how he conducted himself.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 06:35 PM
While I agree with your sentiment I have to add a few things. Lance Armstrong is famous not only because of his accomplishment but also because of his heroic fight back from cancer. Also, I have lived in Europe and I know cycling isn't more popular than basketball. Also, there are many American players who succeed in Europe despite failing miserably in the NBA. Are you telling me Tyus Edny is more talented and has more "personality" than many "very talented" NBA starters? Again, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think Saras is unique and a true icon(like how he almost punishes himself after every missed shot, very Birdesque) but like has been said before, he still has to prove himself in the NBA. Unfortunately, until he does, I can't really say he is one of the "greats" because the NBA is where you ultimately prove yourself. More now than ever. Even Gallis and Bodiroga might have given the NBA a harder, longer look had they started playing now

Yes, I agree with your attitude as regards the talent level. In my previous comment I was actually building upon it. I agree that many NBA starters would be best players in their team if they signed with some Euroleague club. However, for them to reach a level of a "star", that is of a very very popular person, they would need more than just talent - they would need personality. They would also need to lead their national teams, to be seen. Otherwise they would stay in the shadow of soccer players like Beckham, Ronaldo or Ronaldinho. Saras was one of very few basketball players in Europe in recent years who were not overshadowed by soccer stars. Because he took over the stage in Olympics and other international tournaments and because he was interesting - for his emotions, human drama he created during games.

That's why I compared this situation with Lance Armstrong. Cycling isn't popular in US - or at least wasn't popular till Lance Armstrong. And probably Lance would have never become a superstar in US despite his talent and wins, if he didn't have his interesting personality. We can't compare Saras's and Lance's personalities, of course; Lance's image is based on his will and strength in combating cancer, and Saras's image is based on his emotionality and courage to take final shots. But they are similar in the sense that their fanbase is based on much more than their talent and wins.
(PS, I didn't discuss popularity of cycling in Europe in my previous argument, you misunderstood me in this respect)

Rytas_Jega
01-28-2006, 06:39 PM
Euroleague can not compete NBA money-wise!!!

All European money goes to Football, World Sport #1!!! There circulate bigger money than in NBA or NHL. 2-5 million dollar value transfers are trivial. The biggest transfer fees reach 30-60 million dollars.

The richest European basketball club Moscow CSKA has half of a budget NBA poorest teams have, including CSKA's presumptive black accounts.

However, Moscow CSKA football club, which sometimes hardly qualifies to the main UEFA Champions League stage, has much more money.

Bertomeu and his ULEB started serious basketball business developement just a few years ago.

Top Spanish basketball clubs are just small sections of giant football clubs (e.g. Barcelona, Real Madrid), toys of those football clubs.

Best Italian basketball clubs aren't from Milano (Milano basketball was elite someday in the past), Roma or Torino. They are from Bologna and Treviso.

French, Brittish, Germans don't care about basketball almost at all.

Even in Serbia and Montenegro footbal is probably more popular than basketball, despite unimpressive achievments.

The only and one basketball crazy European country is economically weak Lithuania. We chose Basketball after the restitution of Lithuanian independence. Kaunas Žalgiris basketball team defeated occupants' Moscow CSKA three times in a row in the finals in 80's, 4 main players of Champions Soviet Union Team in 1988 Seoul Olympics were Lithuanians. We had 1937, 1939 European titles won before occupation, too. We also got thiefs in our National Football who damaged our more than average football and wasted a chance to get into Interantional Football business. Today nobody cares football here in Lithuania. All that made us basketball country.

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 06:42 PM
Rim, I'll agree with you on everything except Iverson.

Iverson was the one guy on the olympic team that made me proud. He truly DID want to be there, and he played like it.

I don't want Iverson to get lumped in with the rest because of his reputation. I was more than happy with how he conducted himself.

Iverson's behavior was definitely the high point - which is in itself a scary thing.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 06:45 PM
Iverson's behavior was definitely the high point - which is in itself a scary thing.

The fault was in an olympic coach that everyone knows takes at least 50 games to get his palyers to adapt to his system, and two starting guards under 6'2".

The fact Amare, Lebron and Carmello were on the team isn't even a factor, since none of those guys were allowed on the floor.....

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 06:54 PM
Send college kids. Kids who actually want to be there, if they win any medal it's an accomplishment, and people who'll actually take something away from the experience.

I like that attitude. I don't know if they would win much, especially now that the best college players leave for NBA way before graduating, but they would at least be respectfull and respected. They would be competitive. It would be positive for the Olympics and might actually restore the image of US NT both in the eyes of American citizens and other basketball communities.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 06:56 PM
sending amatuers to play against professionals would be rather stupid.

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 07:03 PM
In the victory sense - probably. But the professionals that were sent last time didn't act professionaly enough. They were swaggering and complaining all the time. That's bad for the festival - and it's first and foremost a festival.

Well, maybe the new Colangelo experiment works out.

Rytas_Jega
01-28-2006, 07:16 PM
USA NT had no shooters in 2004 Athens Olympics. All their opponents knew that. It was more easier for them to design defensive schemes.

USA showed their physical advantage perfectly realizing fast breaks.
However, much of the game was positional where shooting was needed.

Kestas
01-28-2006, 07:56 PM
they would at least be respectfull and respected. They would be competitive. It would be positive for the Olympics and might actually restore the image of US NT both in the eyes of American citizens and other basketball communities.

I would have a totally different opinion on this.
imho such move would be treated as disrespect by most participants. it could also be percieved as disrespect for the Olympic games as a whole, coz that's not a junior tournament and mens' teams are not supposed to play with juniors - this is just not right in any sports. everybody understands that juniors can not match hardened veterans in a team sport. tallented junior player can be a factor in the mens' team, but a team made only of juniors will hardly achieve anything among the men imho. this is trivial.
besides, if the grown-up, serious people can't find propper motivation, I don't know why 20-year olds should be able to do that. therefore building the Olympic team out of college players would harm US basketball image even further. unless, of course, sometime in the future Olympic tournament becomes and Under-21 event (as it is in football). but I can't see it happening in the near future (as if me seing something would change things ;))

btw, DisplacedNick, your Iverson thing was hilarious ;)

SwissExpress
01-28-2006, 08:01 PM
As regards the subject of this thread - look what the above mentioned website wrote on Pacers performance six games into the season:

No.3 Pacers. They've played six games without Ron-Ron going crazy. Only 20 more to go. I can't wait.

http://fiyastarter.com/fs-pages/fs-sports-nbarank05-1.htm

grace
01-28-2006, 08:20 PM
sending amatuers to play against professionals would be rather stupid.

They can't do much worse than the last team did. Well, they could but at least we could fall back on the fact that we only sent college kids.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 08:27 PM
They can't do much worse than the last team did. Well, they could but at least we could fall back on the fact that we only sent college kids.

That's cowardace disguised as patronization.

Losing because we sent bad players is no different than losing because we sent good players that didn't care.

In the end, it's just a way of feeling better about how you lost, which I find ridiculous.

We sent amatuers to the 1998 world championships, and it sucked. They actually came close to winning, but it wasn't much fun to watch, and it was frustrating because we lost due to the fact we didn't have enough talent.

A US basketball team. Not talented enough.

The Olympics needs the US to send its best, and so does the rest of the world. They send their best because they want to beat the Americans. Frankly, I love the challenge.

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 10:45 PM
sending amatuers to play against professionals would be rather stupid.

Doing what we've been doing is absolutely stupid. There is no reason to expect we'll ever win another Gold Medal in Olympic basketball if we keep doing things the same way. The pro season doesn't end until late June so they won't be starting to practice until mid-July at the earliest. The Euros are too good any more for us to throw a team together and expect them to win 3 weeks later.

A college team that got together in mid-May as soon as finals ended and practiced for 2-3 months will make a better showing than our pros will under the current system.

Our current system is a losing one.

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 10:46 PM
btw, DisplacedNick, your Iverson thing was hilarious ;)

Wasn't mine - that was an actual interview.

edit: I think it was in 2002 or 2003 - Larry Brown was still Sixers coach then.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 10:47 PM
There is no reason to expect we'll ever win another Gold Medal in Olympic basketball if we keep doing things the same way.

In case you've been on mars since June...we ARE doing it a different way now.....

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 10:50 PM
In case you've been on mars since June...we ARE doing it a different way now.....

Really? They're all leaving their pro teams the 1st of June even if they're in the playoffs to go to camp, practice and play under international rules for 20 games or so?

Or are they going to get together in July, practice for 3 weeks or so, play half a dozen exhibition games and expect to win?

able
01-28-2006, 10:53 PM
College kids won't work either, if you want the best, then you are likely talking mainly draft entries, no top 10 pick (projected) will even consider, and I would even advise against it i they would listen, on teh verge of becoming a multi millionair, after working long and hard, you are NOT going to risk serious injury without ever being compensated.
Current Pro's are all insured, that's another factor.

Kstat
01-28-2006, 10:55 PM
Really? They're all leaving their pro teams the 1st of June even if they're in the playoffs to go to camp, practice and play under international rules for 20 games or so?

Or are they going to get together in July, practice for 3 weeks or so, play half a dozen exhibition games and expect to win?

They're going to practice and play exibition games over the summer, just like every other international team.

Most NBA teams feature international players, so its not as if theyre getting much more of an edge.

DisplacedKnick
01-28-2006, 11:04 PM
They're going to practice and play exibition games over the summer, just like every other international team.

Most NBA teams feature international players, so its not as if theyre getting much more of an edge.

So they're doing the same thing they did last time - unless you're telling me they're starting the day after the NBA finals ends. That was June 23 last year which would give them about 6 weeks.

My guess is they won't get together until July 15 at the earliest. Last time it was July 26 and the Olympics started August 13. They played games beginning August 1 in Cologne and also played in Belgrade and Turkey.

How is the schedule going to be different this time around? Especially considering the NBA season won't be over until late June.

Or are they selecting the team this spring and getting together each of the next 3 summers?

Kstat
01-28-2006, 11:11 PM
They're getting together every summer, including 2007.

Kestas
01-28-2006, 11:53 PM
They're getting together every summer, including 2007.

indeed USA is in a brilliant position for the Olympic games. as far as I know, no other country has such commitments from any players (apart from China probably ;)). in the case of Lithuania I doubt we will know the exact situation with some key players untill July (for the upcoming Worlds). maybe even late July. Saras is the bigest unknown. last year, for example, we were expecting him up till the last moment, but he chose not to come. as did Songaila (Bulls). that's after two starters annouced about their retirement from the National team. also MVP of the Junior worlds Seibutis chose to have a rest and did not come to the men's camp. Kleiza was busy preparing himself for the first season with the Nuggets. Ilgauskas rejected, as always, due to his poor health or whatever stupid reasons he has. a couple of very promising players declined with no particullar reason. finally, two projected starters dropped out right before the tournament due to injuries. that's the brilliant preparation of international teams for you ;) out of 12 players who won Eurobasket title in 2003 only 4 were defending it in 2005. that's your consistency ;). yet LTU only lost once (quarterfinal). will to win and brilliant team atmosphere compensated for the lack of proven stars. those thing are more important here.
btw, it's usual that during preliminary phases of preparation key players are missing and they join the camp later. therefore the National teams play a lot of friendlies with reserve players and young local prospects. last summer our official second NT took part in most of the competitions (and even won the prestigeous Stankovic Cup beating the likes of Argentina and Australia first NTs :)). meanwhile, our first NT was training in Lithuania. coaching staff was different. so basically right now there are two men's NTs in Lithuania and this will continue.

Peck
01-29-2006, 02:55 AM
There's a site that's worth following:
www.fiyastarter.com (http://www.fiyastarter.com)

1. These guys provide some refreshing plainspoken funny NBA and rookies rankings/comments each (or sometimes every second) weekend. They aren't diplomatic, but they really provide some gems time to time. There are some from the past:

http://fiyastarter.com/fs-pages/fs-sports-nbarank05-8.htm

No.1 Pistons. They lost a game and then went back to the lockerroom and laughed for an hour about how good they are.

No.4 Grizzlies. All jokes aside, this team plays the right way, because they aren't coached by Larry ****ing Brown.

No.13 T-Wolves. I would pay to see the looks Spree's relatives give him these days. That's gotta be some uncut comedy right there.

No.15 Lakers. Asked to comment on his two-game suspension, a smirking Kobe stated: "I respect the League's ruling, but I still think it's little unfair. I mean, it's not like a raped someone." Then, he got in his Benz and drove away laughing like a meglomaniac who had James Bond in a deathtrap. I still don't know why people hate him.

No.16 Magic. For all the kids out there who never saw G. Hill's first step in his prime, let me put it this way: The nigga used to get the ball, stand there and freeze his man, then he'd take off like Chevy Chase on that sled in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

No.17 Nuggets. Steve Deberg's pinky to Marcus Camby's pinky: "You're a fuc*ing pus*y, dude."

No.20 Bulls. The Bulls paid 60 mill to an overrated big man with a bad heart after all. Funny how that worked out.

No.21 Wizards. Etan Thomas expressed his feelings about the season with the following Haiku:
Damn, fans. We Sorry.
Lots of Offense, No defense.
I'm still rich though, fans.

No.27 Bobcats. Asked to comment on Emeka Okafor's latest injury, an irate Bernie Bickerstaff replied, "**** you! And **** Dwight Howard! There you go. That's my comment. Happy? Print that. Bye."

No.29 Knicks. Captain's Log: StarDate 6871.3: We have just passed through a severe magnetic storm. Three of our crewman are dead and LARRY BROWN STILL HASN'T SET HIS ****ING STARTING LINEUP!!!! *******!!! KAAAAAAAAHN!!!!


2. On the other hand, I have to warn those who might get interested in that site that they might not like what they'll read there about Pacers. I'm starting to have mixed feelings about these guys myself, as they emerged as true Pacers-haters (and especially Larry Bird-haters) during several latter months and are rather offensive time to time:

"Sources have revealed that an Artest deal with an unidentified team is being held up because Bad Dad is trying to include the parental rights to his daughter Corrie in the transaction. What a scumbag."

"With Ron Artest no longer standing in the way, one has to wonder why Steal O' The Draft, Danny Granger hasn't stepped up for the Pacers. Oh, I know. Because he some bull****."

"Peja isn't the answer for the underachieving Pacers, who still have no center, nor do they have a threat at point guard, a position Bad Dad tried to shore up with a Euro Guard with worse knees than Daryl Walker and Pat Ewing both standing in line for Prince tickets at the Garden."

"Sarunas Jasikevicius: Now, I remember where I know him fromů HE WAS A DAMN SCRUB AT MARYLAND!"




Sorry to interupt our latest Europe vs. USA basketball debate but I just had to highlight that statement above.

D@mn that was funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SwissExpress
01-29-2006, 03:06 AM
Sorry to interupt our latest Europe vs. USA basketball debate but I just had to highlight that statement above.

D@mn that was funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually first found out about this website in one of the Bulls forums I accidently visited several monthes ago. In that forum, they were all crazy (in the good sense) about these rankings in general and that bad-heart-related statement in particular :)

Rytas_Jega
01-29-2006, 06:18 AM
We sent amatuers to the 1998 world championships, and it sucked.


Wendell Alexis (Alba Berlin)
Ashraf Amaya (Idaho Stampede, came to Italy after that WC)
Mateen Cleaves (Michigan State University)
Bill Edwards (Pompea Roma)
Kiwane Garris (Grand Rapids Hoops)
Michael Hawkins (Olympiakos)
Gerard King (Fontanafredda Siena)
Jimmy King (Quad City Thunder)
Trajan Langdon (Duke University)
Brad Miller (Purdue University)
Jimmy Oliver (Ciuda De Huelva)
Jason Sasser (Sioux Falls Skyforce)
David Wood (Rockford Lightning)

Please, don't write "amateurs". Not all of them were amteurs. Many of them played professional basketball in Europe or USA.



They send their best because they want to beat the Americans. Frankly, I love the challenge.

Exactly, All the World hates the Americans. All the World wants to beat them.
They send their best basketball palyers to Summer Olympics, best hockey players to Winter Olympics, best Football players to World Football Championships because they want nothing but to see how the United States of America loses, they come just for one game, other games do not matter for them.

DisplacedKnick
01-29-2006, 09:26 AM
They're getting together every summer, including 2007.

That will certainly help - and if they pay attention to coach K they may turn into a very good team. Having that team together for the qualifying tournament the year before is a huge step in the right direction.

My point's never been that we shouldn't send our best team - the pros - to the Olympics. My point's been that throwing them together 3 weeks before the Olympics means they aren't our best team - that the top college players, brought together at the end of May and with 2 months to practice and play exhibition games - would make a better team.

The other item is I don't think we should cave to the players. They should be staying in the Village, just like everyone else. This elitist crap that does nothing but reinforce all the Ugly American stereotypes needs to end.

BTW - just read Colangelo's press conf transcript and he does say that he's asking players and coaches for a 2-year commitment - from the 2006 Worlds through the 2008 Olympics. That'll help but it's going to be a tough sell with a lot of NBA teams.