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able
04-03-2004, 07:49 PM
Ok here it is: Quite a few of us are "unable" to watch the games, though I would like to make everyone happy with a live-relay of the game, I need serious help for that from someone with equipment and a decent upload speed (pref 512 Kb). Since this is not "readily" available and not offered "yet", we have found another solution for now.

Games will be recorded (when available) via a webcam in front of a television, as sson as possible (after teh game?) the then created zipfiles will be uploaded to the servers and I will post a link here for downloading.

for 1 however I would like to know how many of you want to use that facility seeing as I have to calculate the server load somewhat just in case to many want to dl it at the same time.

Play comes with sound, visibility is good with some "white" spots where the lightning on the floor reflects to much, nonetheless a decent recording and with some help this will only improve.

Please let us know if you are interested

MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 08:25 PM
Please let us know if you are interested

Interested as in: interested in viewing this or interested in doing the webcam?

TheSauceMaster
04-03-2004, 08:30 PM
Intrested in viewing is what he mean's

sweabs
04-03-2004, 09:17 PM
I AM EXTREMELY INTERESTED - I GET NOTHIN UP HERE IN CANADA!!!

obnoxiousmodesty
04-03-2004, 10:49 PM
Obviously, I'm interested. Sweet idea.

MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 11:41 PM
Intrested in viewing is what he mean's

Thanks Boston Buddy...Yeah, I'd be interested, even though I get to see the games already :laugh: .

skyfire
04-03-2004, 11:48 PM
Even with a 512k upload capped connection I dont know how many webcam connections you'd be able to maintian and at what quality the picture would be.

Using a tv-input card to record the game, turning it into DivX and then hosting the files on a ftp site would probbly be a better use of bandwidth/quality at the cost of a couple hours delay post game before the match was available.

But regardless of how you do it i'd be very interested in viewing the final product, I'm happy to help out with any technical support you need.

TheSauceMaster
04-04-2004, 01:06 AM
Yeah I think we realized that streaming via a webpage isn't a good idea as from what I have seen with a little testing it isn't real time and the more users who connect it gets slower and slower .

I am not all knowing on this actually it's all pretty new to me , but what I have been doing is using my webcam and capturing the video in Moviemaker cause it's free and of course it outputs into WMP 9 format , I don't know much about Divx and how much it would improve over wmp files.

TO really get the quality capture that we really need I would need a good capture card and I have done some research and the one I have found is about 140.00 ,this would be the best route to get quality recordings .

Like able said they aren't bad as I have sent him a sample to preview , on a side note though these will be rather large files , so I would say anyone who wanted to download them would probably need a good broadband connection.

What I intend on doing is editing alll commercials out , and breaking them down into atleast 4 seperate files , like 1 file would be quarter 1 , next quarter 2 and so forth.

To give you a idea of how large the files are gonna be I have a test one which is about 7mins and it's is about 23 mb .

If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them .

efx
04-04-2004, 01:33 AM
I'd be forever in your debt. I only get to see a few ones a year.

skyfire
04-04-2004, 02:23 AM
The most common formats that people encode these movies to are:
DivX/Xvid - Read Doom9 (www.doom9.org) for all information about creating this format. A whole game is usually 1-1.4Gb in size.

rmvb - Some real media format which creates slightly lower quality movies than DivX but at a considerably lower file size. Whole game is usually 350-500Mb. I'm not sure if you need to pay for some real media software to create these files. These files usually have everything that isn't actual game play cut out of the movies, eg timeouts, mid-game breaks, etc.

Commonly the games are split into 2 pieces, sometimes split around the half time break, sometimes split on the midpoint of the games running time. 4 pieces would work just aswell, make it marginally easier to download, make it marginally more difficult to watch having to switch between more movies.

Recently my connection to these files on the internet has disapeered, with the irc server getting flooded with bots or somecrap. But as many of you lament the Pacers dont get the greatest showing on national tv, which seems to be where most of these files are coming from. I have only managed to get a few pacers games so far, which are against big teams detroit, dallas, spurs, etc. There were also a lot of Houston games posted there, but were from Chinese tv, with only mandarin commentry or mandarin over the top of english. But Yao is cool so i usually just turn the volume down :D

TheSauceMaster
04-04-2004, 02:42 AM
Well I know Real Media is outta the question as they want you to buy software to encode it :cry:

The reason I was using movie maker is it's pretty much idiot proof and it's free, the reason I am breaking it into 4 diffrent files is my upload speed is only 128k and the test file I uploaded to able today which was only about 7 mins and 23 mb took me about 25 mins , so that's not even a full qauarter of basketball , I would say each quarter would probably be around 50mb , so around a total of 200mb for the full game and that would take forever to upload .

I will try to do some reading on the Divx :laugh:

able
04-04-2004, 07:59 AM
Good to read that some of you like the idea, good to read there is someone out there who also has some knowledge on the topic.

Skyfire: the 512 cap is more then enough, if you read more thoroughly you would have noticed that the 512 "ideal" is an upstream meaning this stream would only be received by me and no-one else, therefor well in the limit of fluent pictures with sound.

From there it would be "captured" in mplayer and re-broadcasted over ice-cast.
Since I have slightly more bandwidth available it would be no problem if about a 100 people would watch simultaneously.
The same sort of system would be ideally used for sound, be it that without a FM incoming from anywhere in Indy I can only use the League Pass signal which would need to go via 2 puters before it gets to the server.

Also the games that are streamed-up first will see delay, whether it is sound or image.

As for the delayed games about which this thread speaks, the "ideal" situation would be someone with either a capture card and cable on his puter (highest quality) or digital high-spec cam, capture card also possible would be TiVo in combination with a hook up to the TV, DVR anything like that would improve quality to near TV quality and be lots better then capturing of a webcam with limited rendering possiblitiies.

nonetheless we take what we can get, I asked for help from those with the above described technical resources and till now the webcam is what I got.
I offer to relay, or host the files for download. These downloads will not be "public" i.e. anon download, they will be only released to those that sort of register with me, get a username and passwd, promise not the distribute and so on. I have some safety concerns for all concerned as base reason for that.

Anyone wanting to help is welcome, if you need certain software I would say contact me off-forum and chances are I can help you with your wishes.

skyfire
04-04-2004, 09:32 AM
Skyfire: the 512 cap is more then enough, if you read more thoroughly you would have noticed that the 512 "ideal" is an upstream meaning this stream would only be received by me and no-one else, therefor well in the limit of fluent pictures with sound.

yea i misinterpreted what you were asking for. 512 should be more than sufficient to send the stream, from where it can be hosted with more bandwidth.

regardless of bandwidth, i'd be interested in the picture quality you could get from using a webcam pointed at a tv, and whether things like tv refresh rate and such would cause those wavey effects when you point a video camera at a tv or monitor.

skyfire
04-04-2004, 10:46 AM
I checked out the webcam test, it doesn't really like fast movement or contrast changes but other than that its watchable.

Comparing the various file formats for size/time:

rmvb = ~4.36Mb/min
DivX = ~12.47Mb/min
wmv = ~3.24Mb/min

If wmv can offer similar picture quality when it used together with a tv-capture card then I dont see any reason why you wouldn't continue using that format.

ppjoey
04-04-2004, 01:02 PM
Oh, i'm extremely interested, too!!
Though about 5~6 games are telecasted every week in Taiwan, I haven't seen a P's game for almost three month :mad:
(The TV schedule is filled by Rockets, Lakers, Mavs, Kings, Spurs, Timberwolves, Sixers, Cavs, Nets, Raptors :rolleyes: )

Will Galen
04-04-2004, 04:32 PM
I can probably help out with recordings. I have a new computer ordered and it will have an ATI All In Wonder Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB DDR video card. Plus I have Comcast Cable.

I know nothing about how to record and save it to a file though. Not yet anyway.