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View Full Version : Defensive Player of the Year - Ronnie?



sweabs
04-03-2004, 02:58 PM
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MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 03:05 PM
Welcome to the forum by the way! :happydance:

Ron Artest, in all likelihood, will get the award.

I think the media knows they probably should have given it to him last year and will make up for it by voting for him this year; not saying that he hasn't done superb this year, he has. I think it should go to Andrei Kirilenko, but I expect Ron to get it. :meditate:

Roaming Gnome
04-03-2004, 03:08 PM
Yeah, I think Ron is going to get it this year, it is hard to ignore his numbers BOTH defensivly and offensivly. My only fear is the award is selected by the media...those guys could screw up anything when it comes to Indiana versus any kind of large market or hot story!

By the way, Welcome... London, Ont...That is where I usually stop and get gas on my way to Toronto.

sweabs
04-03-2004, 03:10 PM
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Kstat
04-03-2004, 03:18 PM
Ron deserves the award, if only because Ben has won it twice already, and now it should be Ron's turn. The sad thing is that Ben and Ron cannot SPLIT the award, because they are both the BEST at what they do.

I will restate Ron did NOT deserve to win ANYTHING last year, or the year before that. Now that he's cleaned up his act, he deserves some recognition.

Next year though, the sympathy gloves come off...... :P

sweabs
04-03-2004, 03:25 PM
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Ragnar
04-03-2004, 03:31 PM
Kstat is a Pistons fan. There are a few people on here who are fans of other teams and you will find that we try to be fair with them for the most part. ;)

Welcome to the forum btw. I have also been to London, Ontario but just once and just for a minute on the way to Toronto.

Kstat
04-03-2004, 03:31 PM
Ive been hanging around most of these guys for about 2 years now, most of us go back to the Indystar days. I'm easily closer to the Pacers than I am to any other NBA team that doesn't play in Auburn Hills.

I guess you could say I'm the resident Piston fan here, if only to keep the homerism to a minimum :P

sweabs
04-03-2004, 03:34 PM
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Ragnar
04-03-2004, 03:39 PM
There is a huge Porsche junk yard in Toronto and the guy that runs it is really good about making sure any parts you buy from him (like engines) are in good working order so you dont get screwed.

I will be heading up there this summer to get a new motor for my 944 because I know his parts are the best.

Anyway thats what I was doing going through there last time. I got pulled over for speeding and I convinced the cop that I was too stupid to understand the metric system and he let me go with a warning.

MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 03:40 PM
I will restate Ron did NOT deserve to win ANYTHING last year, or the year before that. Now that he's cleaned up his act, he deserves some recognition.

To me, if a player has attitude problems, that should in no way interfere with him receiving an award. Take Dennis Rodman for example:

+Named NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1989-90 and 1990-91
+Named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team seven times (1988-89 to 1992-93, 1994-95, 1995-96) and to the NBA All-Defensive Second Team in 1993-94
+Named to the All-NBA Third Team in 1991-92 and 1994-95
+Appeared in the NBA All-Star Game in 1990 and 1992, grabbing a total of 17 rebounds in 36 minutes

I'm sure he wasn't considered the nicest player on or off the court, but he was still deserving and still got the recognition. It might have been a totally different situation, but I don't know, I wasn't into basketball during those years.

I'm just saying that Ron's "antics" if you will should have in no way prevented him from winning the Defensive Player of the Year Award last season, if that's what you are implying.

Kstat
04-03-2004, 03:48 PM
I will restate Ron did NOT deserve to win ANYTHING last year, or the year before that. Now that he's cleaned up his act, he deserves some recognition.

To me, if a player has attitude problems, that should in no way interfere with him receiving an award. Take Dennis Rodman for example:

+Named NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1989-90 and 1990-91
+Named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team seven times (1988-89 to 1992-93, 1994-95, 1995-96) and to the NBA All-Defensive Second Team in 1993-94
+Named to the All-NBA Third Team in 1991-92 and 1994-95
+Appeared in the NBA All-Star Game in 1990 and 1992, grabbing a total of 17 rebounds in 36 minutes

I'm sure he wasn't considered the nicest player on or off the court, but he was still deserving and still got the recognition. It might have been a totally different situation, but I don't know, I wasn't into basketball during those years.

I'm just saying that Ron's "antics" if you will should have in no way prevented him from winning the Defensive Player of the Year Award last season, if that's what you are implying.

You're talking about Dennis's personality. Thats different.

Ron impacted his team in a NEGATIVE way last year, not a positive one. Carlisle HIMSELF admitted that. Ron wasn't playing defense as much as he was hacking and hammering people to death. He was suspended so many times i lost count. He simply wasn't as smart a player as he is this year. If he won the award last year, i GUARENTEE you he wouldn't be as good as he is THIS year.

The only guy who honestly thinks Ron Artest should have won DPOY last year is Ron Artest.

MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 04:13 PM
Ron impacted his team in a NEGATIVE way last year, not a positive one. Carlisle HIMSELF admitted that. Ron wasn't playing defense as much as he was hacking and hammering people to death. He was suspended so many times i lost count. He simply wasn't as smart a player as he is this year. If he won the award last year, i GUARENTEE you he wouldn't be as good as he is THIS year.

The only guy who honestly thinks Ron Artest should have won DPOY last year is Ron Artest.

Still, I don't think the award is really about how he affected his team. Isn't the award based solely on individual defensive performance? You said Carlisle himself admitted that--Did you mean Isiah or Ron or did Rick actually say that? (I hadn't seen that before) I agree, Ron definitely wasn't as smart last year and you're 100% correct, he probably wouldn't have stepped it up this year if he'd done it last season. Now that I think about it, it probably was a good thing. Interesting point, Kstat! Not to disprove your point, but I think I should be included in the list of people who think Ron should have won the DPOYA last year.

dipperdunk
04-03-2004, 04:25 PM
I was just watching the 76ers/Portland game the other night and this thought crossed my mind. Why doesn't Theo Ratliff ever get mentioned for DPOY? This guy dominated the game the other night defensively and he just averaged 5 blocks per game for the month of March yet you almost never hear his name mentioned for the award. Hes easily one of the best defensive players in the game; I think Artest should get the award this season but its just strange you never hear Theo's name mentioned its always Kirilenko,Artest and Ben. Maybe its just because Theo's been injured in recent seasons and spent some time in the basketball wasteland known as Atlanta but hes easily one of the best defensive players in the league IMO.

MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 04:27 PM
I was just watching the 76ers/Portland game the other night and this thought crossed my mind. Why doesn't Theo Ratliff ever get mentioned for DPOY? This guy dominated the game the other night defensively and he just averaged 5 blocks per game for the month of March yet you almost never hear his name mentioned for the award. Hes easily one of the best defensive players in the game; I think Artest should get the award this season but its just strange you never hear Theo's name mentioned its always Kirilenko,Artest and Ben. Maybe its just because Theo's been injured in recent seasons and spent some time in the basketball wasteland known as Atlanta but hes easily one of the best defensive players in the league IMO.

Dip, you are 100% correct about the lack of respect for Theo...I have always noticed his shotblocking ability and I think if his contract was the right size, I'd like to see him in a Pacers uniform...About your point, I thought he had already won a DPOYA or 2, but maybe I'm mistaken.

He did get this though:

Named to the 1998-99 NBA All-Defensive Second Team after leading the 76ers in blocked shots (2.98 bpg, 3rd in the NBA) and rebounds (8.1 rpg, 20th)

edit: You know what I think it is though? He does block the most shots, but other than that, he doesn't rebound or steal the ball nearly as much, although he is a force.

dipperdunk
04-03-2004, 07:00 PM
[quote]
edit: You know what I think it is though? He does block the most shots, but other than that, he doesn't rebound or steal the ball nearly as much, although he is a force.

Thats a good point Ben gets way more steals and rebounds which probably weighs heavily in his favor. Theo was probably on track to win it his last year in Philly but he got injured at the all-star break then LB traded him for Deke and Deke won the award that year mostly on his reputation. I think Theo is a better shot blocker then Ben but when you consider Ben's steals and his defensive rebounding I'm sure thats why he gets the award.

ABADays
04-03-2004, 10:00 PM
I bet if JO voted Ratliff would get his vote.

Note to MSA2CF: Swing at the freaking ball already!

MSA2CF
04-03-2004, 11:44 PM
I bet if JO voted Ratliff would get his vote.

Note to MSA2CF: Swing at the freaking ball already!

That brings up an interesting point---Should players be able to vote amongst themselves for awards?

I'm sorry ABA, that's Nomar's ritual while he waits for the pitch :laugh:.

skyfire
04-03-2004, 11:56 PM
There is a huge Porsche junk yard in Toronto and the guy that runs it is really good about making sure any parts you buy from him (like engines) are in good working order so you dont get screwed.

I will be heading up there this summer to get a new motor for my 944 because I know his parts are the best.

Mmm...944. Cant wait till i'm no longer a broke assed student so i can buy myself a swoit porsche.



Anyway thats what I was doing going through there last time. I got pulled over for speeding and I convinced the cop that I was too stupid to understand the metric system and he let me go with a warning.
lols, pleading stupidity about the metric system. you americans and your crazy imperial system. ;)

PistonsDynasty
04-04-2004, 12:34 AM
Yeah, I think Ron is going to get it this year, it is hard to ignore his numbers BOTH defensivly and offensivly. My only fear is the award is selected by the media...those guys could screw up anything when it comes to Indiana versus any kind of large market or hot story!

By the way, Welcome... London, Ont...That is where I usually stop and get gas on my way to Toronto.

What does Ron Artest OFFENSIVE stats have to do with him winning Defensive Player of the Year? :confused:

PistonsDynasty
04-04-2004, 12:38 AM
I think you guys worry about personal stats to much. Alot of things Ben Wallace doesn't doesn't show up in the box score (same with Artest but to a lesser degree).

Holding 5 teams in a row (really 6) under 70pts. That's going to swing a few more votes towards Ben.

But the real "X" factor is KG. If KG doesn't win MVP than he's more likely going to be the Defensive player of the year.

Hicks
04-04-2004, 01:51 AM
I think you guys worry about personal stats to much. Alot of things Ben Wallace doesn't doesn't show up in the box score (same with Artest but to a lesser degree).

And you would know this how?

Anthem
04-04-2004, 03:07 AM
I think you guys worry about personal stats to much. Alot of things Ben Wallace doesn't doesn't show up in the box score (same with Artest but to a lesser degree).

And you would know this how?

No kidding. If you toss out personal stats, Ben Wallace would still not have won a DPOY. He's always won it because of his "defensive statistics."

Toss out stats, and Ron is the clear winner.

Kstat
04-04-2004, 04:01 AM
I think you guys worry about personal stats to much. Alot of things Ben Wallace doesn't doesn't show up in the box score (same with Artest but to a lesser degree).

And you would know this how?

No kidding. If you toss out personal stats, Ben Wallace would still not have won a DPOY. He's always won it because of his "defensive statistics."

Toss out stats, and Ron is the clear winner.

You responded to a dumb comment with an equally dumb retort..... :laugh: :laugh:

Someone with at least a brain please tell me how either player is a CLEAR winner?

TheSauceMaster
04-04-2004, 04:18 AM
I wouldn't clearly say Ron is defintely a winner , he's got some stiff competition to say the least :rolleyes:


Ron Artest
Ben Wallace
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Bruce Bowen
Theo Ratliff
Doug Christie

All Defintely Contenders for this years DPOY :D

MSA2CF
04-04-2004, 08:22 AM
I wouldn't clearly say Ron is defintely a winner , he's got some stiff competition to say the least :rolleyes:


Ron Artest
Ben Wallace
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Bruce Bowen
Theo Ratliff
Doug Christie

All Defintely Contenders for this years DPOY :D

Andrei Kirilenko deserves to be on that list.

Arcadian
04-04-2004, 01:20 PM
I think what will help Ron most is the fact that Indiana may have the best record and people will want to reward Indiana with some recongition. JO and Rick both won't get serious consideration for MVP or CoY so people will give Ron (and Al for 6th man) more consideration to make up for this.

Winning the award two years in a row will most likely hurt Ben some. While most think he is a great defender I'm not sure if most consider him a three-peat winner. Also I think the team records will factor in and Indiana not Detroit won the division (unlike the years that Ben won the Award).

I just think that this is Ron's year.