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View Full Version : This team has QUIT, Part II



Shade
01-23-2006, 09:32 PM
Anyone disagree? :shrug:

An awesome trade is our ONLY hope now. It's unbelievable that one man can mean so much to a team that is supposedly so deep.

"Deep?! Don't talk about how we're deep! Are you kidding me? Deep?! I'm just hoping we can win a game, another game!"

Yep, we're in deep alright. :kickcan:

SoupIsGood
01-23-2006, 09:33 PM
I think the Pacer's took the Colt's loss a little too hard.

GetOdom
01-23-2006, 09:34 PM
No everyone knows this team has quit and btw, i hate Donnie and this whole Organization for keeping us this way and having there mysterious ways of being patient this whole Organization is ****ed up not only the team.

Jermaniac
01-23-2006, 09:35 PM
I want Rick Carlisle fired. This guy never has this team ready to play. There is no damn reason to come out this flat every damn game. If someone isnt giving effort BENCH their *** I dont care who the player is and how much money they make. Rick Carlisle is SOFT, he is a pop tart.

denyfizle
01-23-2006, 09:35 PM
yeap, I think they're really just so demoralized and are tired of each other, their coach, management and the team's situation right now. heck, die hard fans like us are starting to get tired as well.

Kaufman
01-23-2006, 09:37 PM
Its like we need a break, a 2 week break from one another.

Kstat
01-23-2006, 09:39 PM
I was thinking the same thing as you, Shade.

The Pacers for 2 games against bad teams have flat-out quit.

A trade needs to be made, and NOW.

Sirius
01-23-2006, 09:43 PM
I must say, last yr I was one of the biggest Carlisle fans, but lately he's got me just clueless. AJ AND TINSLEY STARTING!? HAS HE LOST HIS MIND!? With combined 3-16 shooting I think that one at a time is more than enough. What a ridiculous starting lineup...I realize AJ didnt play very much but as I missed the game Im not sure why...doesn't seem like rick would normally pull him for any reason whatsoever...at this point though I really wish we could put a set/solid starting five on the floor for more than a few games at a time, and to me that lineup should be:
Sarunas
Jack
Croshere
JO
Foster

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 09:44 PM
I think the whole organization needs to take an afternoon and go to the Slippery Noodle. They could sit around together outside and drink beer and eat hot wings and celery. Then they could break up into two or three groups and go scour downtown on a scavenger hunt for crazy items and....uh, oh.





I gotta admit, they are making it difficult to remain a member of the Sunshine Brigade.

Hicks
01-23-2006, 09:44 PM
No, no, no. Never play Croshere at 3.

317Kim
01-23-2006, 09:44 PM
Our last 3 losses have been against SUB .500 teams. The good news or bad news first?

Bad News: Play tommorrow then Friday/Sat. then Tues/Wed.
Good News: We have 8 of 10 GAMES AT HOME IN FEBRUARY!

Fireball Kid
01-23-2006, 09:45 PM
I must say, last yr I was one of the biggest Carlisle fans, but lately he's got me just clueless. AJ AND TINSLEY STARTING!? HAS HE LOST HIS MIND!? With combined 3-16 shooting I think that one at a time is more than enough. What a ridiculous starting lineup...I realize AJ didnt play very much but as I missed the game Im not sure why...doesn't seem like rick would normally pull him for any reason whatsoever...at this point though I really wish we could put a set/solid starting five on the floor for more than a few games at a time, and to me that lineup should be:
Sarunas
Jack
Croshere
JO
Foster


Saras will start........................for another team because he will never start on this one.

Kstat
01-23-2006, 09:45 PM
I must say, last yr I was one of the biggest Carlisle fans, but lately he's got me just clueless. AJ AND TINSLEY STARTING!? HAS HE LOST HIS MIND!? With combined 3-16 shooting I think that one at a time is more than enough. What a ridiculous starting lineup...I realize AJ didnt play very much but as I missed the game Im not sure why...doesn't seem like rick would normally pull him for any reason whatsoever...at this point though I really wish we could put a set/solid starting five on the floor for more than a few games at a time, and to me that lineup should be:
Sarunas
Jack
Croshere
JO
Foster

Sarunas was getting absolutely killed by any atlanta guard he tried to "defend." He has little room to complain tonight.

But yeah, if you wanted to put the worst-possible defensive 1-2-3 lineup in the NBA out there, that's as good a lineup as any.

Hicks
01-23-2006, 09:46 PM
Sarunas was getting absolutely killed by any atlanta guard he tried to "defend." He has little room to complain tonight.

Of course, so did Tinsley.

To borrow from foretaz over at IS:

Slick, "if jamaal cant play any better defense than that, then u cant afford to play him".

Boyle, "he has been burned repeatedly, tonite"

Fireball Kid
01-23-2006, 09:47 PM
Why is Tinsley starting anyways?:confused:

owl
01-23-2006, 09:49 PM
I was thinking the same thing as you, Shade.

The Pacers for 2 games against bad teams have flat-out quit.

A trade needs to be made, and NOW.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

As much as we may want a trade, now is not the time. Play the people who will work together and run the offense and the rest can sit. In the offeseason
trade Ron, Tinsley, Jackson and maybe JO if lottery picks can be acquired.
Now if a good trade comes along, fine go ahead and make the trade.
If you trade from weakness then you will be even worse for it long term.
At this rate the Pacers will be picking in the lottery.

owl

Kstat
01-23-2006, 09:50 PM
I dont think either Tinsley or Sarunas should start, sicne they cant guard anybody.

Anthony Johnson is the best and most stable choice at this point. He's average on defense, but thats still better than sarunas and Tinsley.

That probably sickens some of you, but at this point, what do you want to do? The alternatives give up way too many points for this system to be effective.

Sollozzo
01-23-2006, 09:51 PM
Everyone has to point fingers.

Why is it so hard to see that the Pacers are an extremely mediocre basketball team? That's the problem. It's not really any particular individual's fault, the Pacers just aren't that good.

Shade
01-23-2006, 09:55 PM
Everyone has to point fingers.

Why is it so hard to see that the Pacers are an extremely mediocre basketball team? That's the problem. It's not really any particular individual's fault, the Pacers just aren't that good.

Because nearly this exact same team was the second-best team in the NBA only two seasons ago.

heywoode
01-23-2006, 09:56 PM
Well, it would be different if they gave 100% every night and got beat. They aren't trying very hard, and I'm sick of watching them and getting pissed off.

I'm stating here and now that I'm taking a week (at least) off from watching them. It is too disheartening to watch them anymore, and I grow more distant to this team every time they step on the floor.

With tough games coming up in the next couple weeks, I could easily see them losing another 5 or 6 in a row...

I NEED A BREAK!!!

Hicks
01-23-2006, 09:57 PM
I dont think either Tinsley or Sarunas should start, sicne they cant guard anybody.

Anthony Johnson is the best and most stable choice at this point. He's average on defense, but thats still better than sarunas and Tinsley.

That probably sickens some of you, but at this point, what do you want to do? The alternatives give up way too many points for this system to be effective.

Then it's time to change the system. They both bring a lot to the table that warrants they play. Defense is important, but this team obviously can't afford to be this dependent on it.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:05 PM
This team + Reggie was good enough to make it to the 2nd round (without artest too). Reggie was adequate at defense but certainly no stellar performer. Was his vet personna so important to the glue of this team? I didn't think so. But perhaps.
Did they hold together last year because they thought Ron was wronged and would justify himself this year? I doubt if that thought would get them to the 2nd round.

The players are there, so without seeing the game or huddle, I'd have to guess they have quit on the coach and are going their own way. Is that the case? Are the key elements still paying attention to Rick or have they tuned him out?

Hicks
01-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Reggie was the master of raising his team above their potential collective ability. Maybe I haven't given him enough credit for last season.

Kstat
01-23-2006, 10:06 PM
Then it's time to change the system. They both bring a lot to the table that warrants they play. Defense is important, but this team obviously can't afford to be this dependent on it.

THen you need to change the coach. It's that simple.

Hicks
01-23-2006, 10:07 PM
THen you need to change the coach. It's that simple.

It looks that way. The trick is to wait until you have someone worth firing him for available.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:11 PM
It looks that way. The trick is to wait until you have someone worth firing him for available.


Stan Van Bundy?

Hicks
01-23-2006, 10:12 PM
Is that really going to produce something better?

Kstat
01-23-2006, 10:12 PM
Not if you want a faster offense.

Jermaniac
01-23-2006, 10:14 PM
KStat you know a crap load about the NBA, what are some good coaches out there right now?

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:15 PM
What I saw tonight was a very unhappy team that is crumbling with turnoil. No one is happy with their roles, no one is happy with their teammates. When AJ does what he does you know things are bad really bad.

Beyond that, the Pacers point guard play tonight maybe be as bad as I've ever seen from any team ever in the NBA.
Point guard is the most important position on the court and that is in shambles right now. I can see why AJ is pissed right now, he is the Pacers best player right now at that position.

I have to say something about Tinsley tonight. Did he just not care. Did he even try to play defense for one second tonight. Oh I know, I know he is suffering from the flu, wait the flu again. What is going on.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:16 PM
If I had to make a change right now, I would hire Eric Musselman. No retreads please., But no way Rick should go anywhere

Sollozzo
01-23-2006, 10:16 PM
Because nearly this exact same team was the second-best team in the NBA only two seasons ago.



2 seasons ago, you had a Ron Artest who saved blowing up until the Pistons series, thus allowing the Pacers to coast through the season.

2 years ago you had Reggie Miller, who could always be counted on for a spark.

2 years ago you had Al Harringon.



"nearly the exact same team" is an EXTREME stretch.

Evan_The_Dude
01-23-2006, 10:17 PM
I want Eric Musselman

Kstat
01-23-2006, 10:19 PM
I have to say something about Tinsley tonight. Did he just not care. Did he even try to play defense for one second tonight. Oh I know, I know he is suffering from the flu, wait the flu again. What is going on.

This may be a silly question: Do you people have flu shots in Indianapolis?

The Pacers are the only team I know that constantly suffers from the flu.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:21 PM
This may be a silly question: Do you people have flu shots in Indianapolis?

The Pacers are the only team I know that constantly suffers from the flu.



I wonder what is really going on with Tinsley. He gets the flu every three weeks. What is he doing.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:21 PM
This may be a silly question: Do you people have flu shots in Indianapolis?

The Pacers are the only team I know that constantly suffers from the flu.


FLU?? Damn, I missed the memo. I just posted elsewhere that he had migranes.

Evan_The_Dude
01-23-2006, 10:22 PM
Tell him to stop sharing blunts before the games...



wow, that was wrong wasnt it

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:23 PM
OK, I was in a meeting all evening. So what did AJ do?

Shade
01-23-2006, 10:24 PM
2 seasons ago, you had a Ron Artest who saved blowing up until the Pistons series, thus allowing the Pacers to coast through the season.

2 years ago you had Reggie Miller, who could always be counted on for a spark.

2 years ago you had Al Harringon.



"nearly the exact same team" is an EXTREME stretch.

2 years ago, Reggie was very passive and not much of a factor, at least on the stat sheet.

We traded Al for Jack, which was supposedly an upgrade. We also added Danny and Runi, supposedly upgrades.

So, Ron Artest is THAT important to this team? DAMN.

Jermaniac
01-23-2006, 10:25 PM
This may be a silly question: Do you people have flu shots in Indianapolis?

The Pacers are the only team I know that constantly suffers from the flu.
Yes you just reminded me. Before the game I heard Tinsley had the flu and I thought good God our team gets the flu every damn week. Last week Fred and Jack had it and this week Tinsley has it. I doubt any team comes close to having so many family emergencies and flu's as our team does.

Stryder
01-23-2006, 10:25 PM
I wonder what is really going on with Tinsley. He gets the flu every three weeks. What is he doing.

Syphillis? :devil:

Jermaniac
01-23-2006, 10:26 PM
OK, I was in a meeting all evening. So what did AJ do?Got pissed that Rick took him out. Walked off the court too slow. and we got a 6 men on the court penalty I dont know what the hell they called it I never even seen it before.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:26 PM
OK, I was in a meeting all evening. So what did AJ do?



He was taken out early in the 3rd quarter and walked very slowly to the bench I mean really slowly, to the point where the Pacers were hit with a T for having 6 men on the court. Now that was a BS call this type of thing happens all the time and no T is called.

But the point is AJ was pissed and I don't blame him. What I loved was Croshere's reaction. He was sitting on the bench when this happened and he just kinda shock his head.

Kstat
01-23-2006, 10:28 PM
KStat you know a crap load about the NBA, what are some good coaches out there right now?

Eric Musselman is always a big name that floats around. He had a pretty bad record at golden state, though.

Doc Rivers will likely get canned after this season. For player-friendly coaches, you dont get much friendlier than Doc.

Paul Silas is a quality coach, and he allows more freedom than Rick. He'd be an OK choice, but he's the biggest hardass coach there is. Very confrontational.

Terry Porter I thought got a real bum rap in Milwaukee. His teams always shared the ball and played decent defense. He just didnt have the players.

You could also give Rudy T a call and see if his health has improved.

EDIT:

Here's a wild card name to watch out for: Dennis Johnson. He's got limited head coaching experience, but his florida flames have the best record in the NBDL right now, theyre the only team scoring over 100ppg, and they're not exactly doing it with big names.

Eventually, this guy will get a job with somebody. He's far too respected NOT to get a job.

Will Galen
01-23-2006, 10:28 PM
This team will be fine after Ron and Tinsley is traded.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:29 PM
He was taken out early in the 3rd quarter and walked very slowly to the bench I mean really slowly, to the point where the Pacers were hit with a T for having 6 men on the court. Now that was a BS call this type of thing happens all the time and no T is called.

But the point is AJ was pissed and I don't blame him. What I loved was Croshere's reaction. He was sitting on the bench when this happened and he just kinda shock his head.


Thanks UB. Who was replacing him and was it for offense or to give him a blow?

Shade
01-23-2006, 10:30 PM
This team will be fine after Ron and Tinsley is traded.

In that case, I'll see y'all again in November. :wave:

Evan_The_Dude
01-23-2006, 10:31 PM
Damn I forgot about Paul Silas, I'd love to have him. Rudy T. would be my first choice though.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:32 PM
Eric Musselman is always a big name that floats around. He had a pretty bad record at golden state, though.

Doc Rivers will likely get canned after this season. For player-friendly coaches, you dont get much friendlier than Doc.

Paul Silas is a quality coach, and he allows more freedom than Rick. He'd be a good choice.

Terry Porter I thought got a real bum rap in Milwaukee. His teams always shared the ball and played decent defense. He just didnt have the players.

You could also give Rudy T a call and see if his health has improved.

No Rudy T or Rivers for me. Not certain, didn't Silas have a bit of an ego trip (my way or the highway) attitude?

Porter I can't say.


How about if LB came back to the bench? Yeah riiiiiiiight.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:34 PM
Eric Musselman is always a big name that floats around. He had a pretty bad record at golden state, though.

Doc Rivers will likely get canned after this season. For player-friendly coaches, you dont get much friendlier than Doc.

Paul Silas is a quality coach, and he allows more freedom than Rick. He'd be a good choice.

Terry Porter I thought got a real bum rap in Milwaukee. His teams always shared the ball and played decent defense. He just didnt have the players.

You could also give Rudy T a call and see if his health has improved.

I'd move to Cambodia if Silas, Rudy T, or Doc are hired.

Porter is decent.

But I'm telling everyone right now Eric Museelman is going to be one of the best coaches in the NBA when he gets his next head coaching job. I'm 99.99% sure of it. He's extremely innovative and he did a great job with the Warriors. If Mus were the coiahc of the Warriors right now they'd be 10 games over .500 right now.

But what do I know I loved Fratello as coach, oh wait he's doing a great job with the Grizz

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:35 PM
Damn I forgot about Paul Silas, I'd love to have him. Rudy T. would be my first choice though.


Rudy T is a horrible defensive coach. Silas is only slightly better.

Kstat
01-23-2006, 10:36 PM
I'd move to Cambodia if Silas, Rudy T, or Doc are hired.

Porter is decent.

But I'm telling everyone right now Eric Museelman is going to be one of the best coaches in the NBA when he gets his next head coaching job. I'm 99.99% sure of it. He's extremely innovative and he did a great job with the Warriors. If Mus were the coiahc of the Warriors right now they'd be 10 games over .500 right now.

But what do I know I loved Fratello as coach, oh wait he's doing a great job with the Grizz


Muss's problem is that he tries too hard to be creative, and his teams have very little substance behind them. He's overly gimmicky.

pacerwaala
01-23-2006, 10:36 PM
Reggie was the master of raising his team above their potential collective ability. Maybe I haven't given him enough credit for last season.


Amen to that, I have been preaching this all along. Reggie was the glue that held this team together on and off the court. All these punks would not dare act up when Reg was around. His rah rah atitude, preparation, focus and concentration was so contagious. These guys do not realize that NBA basketball is a lot more mental than pure physical talent. These guys can't run up and down the court twice without complaining to the refs or break a play or BOTH.

Hicks, you along with a lot of people sure have not given Reggie enough credit for last season. One thing that I like about Saras is his atitude on and off the floor, it is very similar to that of Reggie. He is the first off the floor to high five teammates, very emotional on the floor and has shown that he has a flair for the clutch. He is a team guy all the way along with a few others. THe rest of them have a lot of maturing to do.

SoupIsGood
01-23-2006, 10:39 PM
My first choice would be Rick C. I haven't lost faith in him.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:40 PM
Muss's problem is that he tries too hard to be creative, and his teams have very little substance behind them. He's overly gimmicky.



We'll see. He'll probably have a job next season.

pacerwaala
01-23-2006, 10:41 PM
classic American way! call for a coaches head when you have a bunch of discipline less fools on the floor. I for one do not think Carlisle is the problem at all. I have said it before and I will say it again - I would not mind it if Carlisle has a Jerry Sloanish career here. I would trade some of these players (Ron, Sjax and JT - JT only if we get something good in return because I have hope that he will mature) before I touch Carlisle.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Thanks UB. Who was replacing him and was it for offense or to give him a blow?



I think Fred was replacing him. No it wasn't just to give him a rest. And it wasn't because AJ was playing bad, it was just because Rick wanted Fred in the game

SoupIsGood
01-23-2006, 10:42 PM
classic American way! call for a coaches head when you have a bunch of discipline less fools on the floor. I for one do not think Carlisle is the problem at all. I have said it before and I will say it again - I would not mind it if Carlisle has a Jerry Sloanish career here. I would trade some of these players (Ron, Sjax and JT - JT only if we get something good in return because I have hope that he will mature) before I touch Carlisle.

Me too

Kstat
01-23-2006, 10:42 PM
I think Dennis Johnson would be a good fit for this team.

He knows as well as anyone how to handle his PGs.

Jermaniac
01-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Eric Musselman is always a big name that floats around. He had a pretty bad record at golden state, though.

Doc Rivers will likely get canned after this season. For player-friendly coaches, you dont get much friendlier than Doc.

Paul Silas is a quality coach, and he allows more freedom than Rick. He'd be an OK choice, but he's the biggest hardass coach there is. Very confrontational.

Terry Porter I thought got a real bum rap in Milwaukee. His teams always shared the ball and played decent defense. He just didnt have the players.

You could also give Rudy T a call and see if his health has improved.

EDIT:

Here's a wild card name to watch out for: Dennis Johnson. He's got limited head coaching experience, but his florida flames have the best record in the NBDL right now, theyre the only team scoring over 100ppg, and they're not exactly doing it with big names.

Eventually, this guy will get a job with somebody. He's far too respected NOT to get a job.
I like Porter,Silas and Muss all seem like good coaches too me. That just didnt have the players with their last teams. Muss would have this Warrior team in the top 5 in the west right now.

Doc Rivers I hate I cant stand the guy. Horrible coach.

Hicks
01-23-2006, 10:43 PM
DJ would be interesting. I wasn't aware he was having success in the NBDL, but that's good to hear. Wasn't Bird interested in him after Isiah was fired?

SoupIsGood
01-23-2006, 10:44 PM
I think Dennis Johnson would be a good fit for this team.

I don't want a coach that is a good fit for this current team. IMO our players just don't fit together. Why try to get a coach that is a better fit when it is the players that don't mesh?

Moses
01-23-2006, 10:45 PM
Nobody worth firing him for yet. Dennis Johnson does sound intriguing though.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:52 PM
Bird mentioned DJ as a possible assistant for him when Bird was head coach for the Pacers. But Bird only wanted two guys, but I guess DJ was a little frustrated by this. Bird does say that he thinks DJ will make a good coach.

My source for this is Bird's book he wrote a few years ago as coach of the Pacers.

The impression I got is Bird might consider DJ, but I don't think he would be his first choice. Well obviously as Rick was his first choice

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 10:53 PM
Kstat makes a good point. Just what type of coach would be good for this team. But This team is going to be very different 8 months from now, so who knows

Bball
01-23-2006, 10:56 PM
Is Mark Jackson out?

-Bball

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 10:57 PM
Kstat makes a good point. Just what type of coach would be good for this team. But This team is going to be very different 8 months from now, so who knows


I would still rather have Rick turn loose of the reins...not just a little but totally. Let em play and the coach only call an occasional play. Show some trust in the players.

Kstat
01-23-2006, 11:01 PM
I would still rather have Rick turn loose of the reins...not just a little but totally. Let em play and the coach only call an occasional play. Show some trust in the players.

That's not who Rick is. He isn't going to coach like that.

Neither JVG, nor Jerry Sloan, nor Larry Brown allows his players much freedom. It's how they coach.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 11:05 PM
That's not who Rick is. He isn't going to coach like that.

Neither JVG, nor Jerry Sloan, nor Larry Brown allows his players much freedom. It's how they coach.

Yeah, I know. Wouldn't it be ironic if Artest's complaint was what ultimately led to BOTH of them being out of here?

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 11:13 PM
Geez, do you truist this team to be allowed to just play. I sure don't. They may commit 25 turnovers per game

BillS
01-23-2006, 11:27 PM
He was taken out early in the 3rd quarter and walked very slowly to the bench I mean really slowly, to the point where the Pacers were hit with a T for having 6 men on the court. Now that was a BS call this type of thing happens all the time and no T is called.

But the point is AJ was pissed and I don't blame him. What I loved was Croshere's reaction. He was sitting on the bench when this happened and he just kinda shock his head.

Figures. That was while I was out getting a beer and I missed the why, only heard the tech for 6 men on the floor.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 11:27 PM
Geez, do you truist this team to be allowed to just play. I sure don't. They may commit 25 turnovers per game


I would like to see what would happen if Sarunas was given free reins for a while. But yeah, for the most part it will require a retooling of the personnel to accomplish that feat.

BillS
01-23-2006, 11:30 PM
Geez, do you truist this team to be allowed to just play. I sure don't. They may commit 25 turnovers per game

Try 25 turnovers a quarter. Run and gun and brick or get stripped. Oh, joy.

abington
01-23-2006, 11:38 PM
Mel Daniels or Reggie Miller should be the next head coach.

indygeezer
01-23-2006, 11:39 PM
How high is Rons trade value now???

Look what this team is without him :-o

Anthem
01-23-2006, 11:59 PM
Haven't read most of this thread.

I disagree with the premise, though. The Pacers don't need a brilliant trade. If we get one, great. But we do need a trade. Something. Anything. Even if it's not trading Ron. There just has to be some show that the front office is actually DOING something.

Tim
01-24-2006, 12:12 AM
Everyone has to point fingers.

Why is it so hard to see that the Pacers are an extremely mediocre basketball team? That's the problem. It's not really any particular individual's fault, the Pacers just aren't that good.


Exactly!

I am not surprized or mad. I expect the team to struggle to hit 50 wins and a first round exit. I predicted it before the season started.

Too even have a chance to win a game against anybody this this must hit the three and make shots at the line.

Tim
01-24-2006, 12:16 AM
Reggie was the master of raising his team above their potential collective ability. Maybe I haven't given him enough credit for last season.

And there was a time not too long ago that Reggie was injured and the team won without him. In fact we even debated if Reggie should be a starter when he came back. Do you remember that?

Hicks
01-24-2006, 12:17 AM
Yes, I remember. He seemed to be "Captain Defer" with a full roster, but when some of our main guys were out, he lifted the team.

grace
01-24-2006, 12:24 AM
Because nearly this exact same team was the second-best team in the NBA only two seasons ago.

Nearly the exact same team? Reggie and Ron are gone. Jeff isn't the same. That's not nearly the same team to me.

grace
01-24-2006, 12:41 AM
This team will be fine after Ron and Tinsley is traded.

Traded for what? I don't know why people assume a trade is going to fix what is wrong with this team. The team we have playing now has been together since training camp and they stink. Just how long will it take the "new" Pacers to play well. I'm not sure I'll live that long.

Tom White
01-24-2006, 09:20 AM
So, Ron Artest is THAT important to this team? DAMN.

People may not like this, but yes, I believe he was.

naptownmenace
01-24-2006, 09:57 AM
Rudy T is a horrible defensive coach. Silas is only slightly better.


That's not true at all. I'd say that Rudy is a much better defensive coach than Silas. His years with the Rockets they were always in the top 10 defensively. Even after they traded Hakeem, they were a strong defensive team - and that was with Stevie Franchise, Mobley, and Kato leading the way.

I wouldn't want Rudy because of his health problems but he is a very good coach.

Musselman is a good coach and got a raw deal in GS. I can say the same for Terry Porter. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dennis Johnson get some run pretty soon in the NBA (he was an assistant for the Clippers a couple of years back).

However, Rick Carlisle is a much better coach than all of those guys. IMO, get rid of the players before you get rid of him.

Raskolnikov
01-24-2006, 09:58 AM
:sunshine:


:zip:

Ralph Snart
01-24-2006, 10:01 AM
I swear, if we hire Doc, we might as well invite Thomas back. Doc couldn't coach a better Celtic team with home court past us last year. Bill Simmons recently had an article on Doc, that was a damning indictment on how bad of a coach he is.

And it's funny to me that everyone's turning on Rick when less than 10 months ago everyone was saying he was a strong candidate for COY. He didn't turn into a bad coach over the past year.

The biggest problem with this team is Artest. He's been hanging over everything for months, and is the cancer that has to be removed from the team. Once this happens the ship will right itself.

What it really comes down to is that the Pacers this season have lost their identity. Ron was either our best, or second best player every night. The team can play without him (see last year), but when things are so up in the air, it creates havoc on their confidence. They don't know what the team will look like next month. They don't know if they may be playing in a different uniform next month. I think this is the crux of the attitude problems we are seeing.

Last year was one of my favorite years as a Pacer supporter. Seeing the team rise up and play despite the hand it was dealt was inspiring, and made me proud of the team.

That same team is in there, somewhere.

naptownmenace
01-24-2006, 10:02 AM
Traded for what? I don't know why people assume a trade is going to fix what is wrong with this team. The team we have playing now has been together since training camp and they stink. Just how long will it take the "new" Pacers to play well. I'm not sure I'll live that long.


I don't know why but I LOL when I read that. :laugh:

I was probably #1 in chanting that mantra at the beginning of the season but this team will never gel. Rick has too much depth and the roster is totally out of balance (too many guys that think they have star potential).

Then again with Ron gone and Tinsley gone (hopefully), I think the team could improve - depending on who they receive via trade. This team needs an Earl Watson type player. He's Chauncey Billups-light and the type of point that the Pacers (Rick) need.

Still there's a lot of truth in that statement.

McKeyFan
01-24-2006, 10:14 AM
Sarunas was getting absolutely killed by any atlanta guard he tried to "defend." He has little room to complain tonight.

But yeah, if you wanted to put the worst-possible defensive 1-2-3 lineup in the NBA out there, that's as good a lineup as any.

That's not what I saw. He got burned a few times, but most of the time he kept them somewhat at bay. When Tinsley came in, Tyronne Lue went crazy.

I've watched pg defense closely the past few games, and I've seen this consistently. Sarunas is playing decent defense. Tinsley is not.

Chest Rockwell
01-24-2006, 12:16 PM
I can't believe that canning Carlisle is going to get this team anywhere. If anything, it would be a sign that DW and LB are passing the blame for the mistakes they've made.

1) Terrible play at center. Harrison is dreadful and Foster has yet to play anywhere close to starting center caliber.

2) Giving O'Neal a max contract and running the offense through him. JO is a good player, but compare his FG % and durability with the league's other premier post players. He is not capable of carrying the load. Oh, and his passing is still horrid after all these years.

3)Mishandling the Artest situation. There is a chance the whole thing would have just blown over, or at the very least Artest could have boosted his trade value by playing the past 25 games.

4) PG fiasco. When Anthony Johnson is your most complete PG, you've made some personell gaffes.

5) Steven Jackson looks to me like a #1 option on a last place team, rather than a #2 or #3 option on a good team. His shot selection is suspect, his attitude is bad, and his grill is just plain tough to look at.

My point - Red Aurbach couldn't get this team to win the East.

Indyfan
01-24-2006, 01:05 PM
I can't believe that canning Carlisle is going to get this team anywhere. If anything, it would be a sign that DW and LB are passing the blame for the mistakes they've made.

1) Terrible play at center. Harrison is dreadful and Foster has yet to play anywhere close to starting center caliber.

2) Giving O'Neal a max contract and running the offense through him. JO is a good player, but compare his FG % and durability with the league's other premier post players. He is not capable of carrying the load. Oh, and his passing is still horrid after all these years.

3)Mishandling the Artest situation. There is a chance the whole thing would have just blown over, or at the very least Artest could have boosted his trade value by playing the past 25 games.

4) PG fiasco. When Anthony Johnson is your most complete PG, you've made some personell gaffes.

5) Steven Jackson looks to me like a #1 option on a last place team, rather than a #2 or #3 option on a good team. His shot selection is suspect, his attitude is bad, and his grill is just plain tough to look at.

My point - Red Aurbach couldn't get this team to win the East.

:iagree:

ChicagoJ
01-24-2006, 01:14 PM
At least I've watched the Steelers rally around Jerome Bettis and get him to the SuperBowl for his (probably) final game.

Too bad we couldn't do the same for Reggie last season.

Maybe we need to keep a couple of the young players with an upside like Granger, JO, and Harrison, and replace the rest of the players, coaches, and management.

I'm not sure they need 15 new players right now, but the front office is about to be added to the list...

Especially if they've turned down Maggette, even if injured for the rest of this season, for Peja.

Peck
01-24-2006, 01:15 PM
When you have the problems that Chest Rockwell just laid out you have to look a little higher than the player or the coach's.

You have to look to who put this team together & then allowed this to simmer for as long as it did.

McKeyFan
01-24-2006, 01:17 PM
Don't know if I'd include JO as a player with an upside. I think we're seeing the ripened fruit. Thus, the concern.

BillS
01-24-2006, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure they need 15 new players right now, but the front office is about to be added to the list...

Especially if they've turned down Maggette, even if injured for the rest of this season, for Peja.

What, you're afraid there wouldn't be any stupid move to complain about next year unless we trade Artest for a guy who might have permanent foot problems?

ChicagoJ
01-24-2006, 01:20 PM
His upside is that he's already proven to be a top-five player in the league with an unbalanced supporting cast.

Top-rate PFs/ Cs can never "do it alone" anyway. Of course he needs to be surrounded by competent players. If this is "all we get" with JO then I'm still okay with it. Besides, he's still fairly young as far as NBA big-men go.

ChicagoJ
01-24-2006, 01:24 PM
What, you're afraid there wouldn't be any stupid move to complain about next year unless we trade Artest for a guy who might have permanent foot problems?

Might have a 'permanent foot problem' vs. a guy that definitely has a 'stuck in one dimension AND has an option to opt-out' problem.

Worst case, under both scenarios, is that you've traded Ron for nothing. But the best case, under the Maggette scenario, seems infinitely better than the Peja scenario.

This is a fine example of a calculated risk.

BillS
01-24-2006, 02:08 PM
This is a fine example of a calculated risk.

And when the last 3 "calculated risks" calculated to zero, you begin to get a little risk-averse.

Why not play it a little safe right now, get things behind us before the trade deadline, decide whether to write off the rest of the year (make the rest of the changes during the off-season) or whether a little stability means we could go for one more trade?