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indygeezer
01-23-2006, 08:08 AM
Walsh...in todays IS article about tonights game....he has narrowed the list down to 5 teams.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


:alcohol:


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060123/SPORTS04/601230396/1004/SPORTS

As the Ron Artest trade saga enters its seventh week, the waiting to see where he's going and whom the Indiana Pacers will get in return has started taking its toll on a team that's looking more and more mediocre.

NOT HELPING: Indiana is 9-11 since losing Ron Artest's services. - CHRIS CARLSON / Associated Press
Today's game
• Who: Pacers (21-18) at Hawks (10-28).
• When: 7 p.m.
• TV: WTTV-4.
• Radio: WIBC-1070 AM.

PLAYERS TO WATCH
PACERS -- David Harrison has started 12 games but he's scored double figures only three times in that span. Harrison played just nine minutes against Chicago. He went scoreless, pulling down a rebound while picking up four fouls. Harrison's minutes will continue to be dictated by fouls. The most minutes he's played this season is 24.

HAWKS -- Al Harrington's name was mentioned immediately after Ron Artest said he wanted to be traded. Harrington, who will be a free agent at the end of the season, would have slid right into the small forward position with the Pacers. Now it appears Harrington will remain with the Hawks. Harrington, who is tied for the team lead in scoring, has scored in double figures 22 straight games.

SERIES TREND
The Pacers and the Hawks meet for the second time this season tonight at Philips Arena. Atlanta surprised the Pacers 87-85 at Conseco Fieldhouse in late November. The game featured a heated exchange between Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson. O'Neal led the Pacers with 30 points. The Pacers have won seven of the past eight meetings against Atlanta.

-- Mike Wells

The Pacers are 9-11 since the team placed Artest on the inactive list Dec. 12 following his comments about wanting to be traded.
"I think there's a lot of uncertainty about the trade, let's be honest," rookie point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius said. "It's not helping us out, that's for sure. "
The Pacers have more to worry about than putting the ball in the basket and stopping the opposing team. They try to avoid the subject, but it's hard when there's a possibility one of them could be packaged with Artest.
"It's out of our individual control," point guard Anthony Johnson said. "There's no need to worry about what you can't control, although it is human nature."
The Pacers, who play at Atlanta tonight, have dropped four of their past six games. They are three games above .500 and sixth in the Eastern Conference, but they still look like a team of many uncertainties.
There are questions surrounding the rotation. The players have yet to grasp the concept of playing a complete game. Several players would rather use their energy complaining to the referees than getting back to play defense.
"When I go into that locker room at the All-Star break, I can't talk to them and say, 'We're going to do this,' because I don't know where we're at," forward Jermaine O'Neal said. "I don't know where we're at right now, and that's hard to swallow. It's one of the most mind-boggling situations I've ever seen, to the point it becomes hard to deal with. The bottom line is we've got to play, because the games aren't going to stop."
CEO Donnie Walsh and president Larry Bird continue to work the phones, looking for the best trade scenario as Artest continues his paid vacation. Walsh said they've narrowed their list of teams to about five.
"You would hope to get a deal done soon, but it's not that simple," he said. "If we can't get something done with the teams we're talking to now, we'll just move on and talk to other teams."
Walsh wouldn't reveal what teams remain in the running, but it's believed most of the interest is coming from Western Conference teams.
If the Pacers don't trade Artest by the NBA's Feb. 23 trading deadline? "We'll cross that bridge if it reaches that point,'' Walsh said. The team has no plans to bring Artest back.
A season that seemed so promising at the start is looking like it's headed to a low seed in the playoffs and failed expectations, which could lead to even more players being shipped out.
"The city is going through the damnedest times right now," O'Neal said. "You've got two teams that were projected to play for a championship. The Colts didn't win and the Pacers are having a God-awful year. It's really a Saga Part II from last year. This city has a lot of pride and they're behind us and they want us to do well. I believe if we can't get the job done as players, then the organization will make some changes, either by the (All-Star) break or this summer."

able
01-23-2006, 08:23 AM
Besides the usual non-informing statement from Wals, far more interesting is JO's comment:


"When I go into that locker room at the All-Star break, I can't talk to them and say, 'We're going to do this,' because I don't know where we're at," forward Jermaine O'Neal said. "I don't know where we're at right now, and that's hard to swallow. It's one of the most mind-boggling situations I've ever seen, to the point it becomes hard to deal with. The bottom line is we've got to play, because the games aren't going to stop."


"The city is going through the damnedest times right now," O'Neal said. "You've got two teams that were projected to play for a championship. The Colts didn't win and the Pacers are having a God-awful year. It's really a Saga Part II from last year. This city has a lot of pride and they're behind us and they want us to do well. I believe if we can't get the job done as players, then the organization will make some changes, either by the (All-Star) break or this summer."

Specially quote 1 says alot, players are getting just as frustrated as the fans, they have no clue what's going to happen who's going, who's staying, who's coming.
If anything in order to become a semblence of a team they need to know where they stand and where the team is taken by TPTB, because this is killing this team even faster and more thorough then Ron ever could.

I think the team would even accept a bag of chips, at least knowing where they stand and on who they can count, at the moment most players are mentioned in some traderumour somewhere and despite the right remarks from AJ, being in the situation where you do not know today if you are still in Indy tomorrow is everything but ideal for a team, certainly when it involves (by now) 75% of the team.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 08:35 AM
No, what would kill the team even faster would be a bad trade

able
01-23-2006, 08:47 AM
UB, I fail to see why no one here sees that the "no trade" is placing so much tension on the team that it is killing everything.

Every last player not named JO has been mentioned in a trade rumour, so each and eveyone has to deal with the stress at work (am I next) AND the stress at home, are we still here next month, what should I do with the kids school and so on and so on.

In the beginning there is the relief of Ron gone, no more stress from that angle, but by now it has been replaced by the far more tangible wide spread "am I going to get traded with Ron" stress.

After 6 weeks, this kind of thing only grows, wilder and wilder, it freezes people up, some can handle it better then others, but it will have a devastating influence on the group as a whole.

I don't care who to blame for it, because blame is not a solution, a trade or confirmation of no-trade is.

Ron for a draft pick would be a bad trade in your eyes, but it would bring peace to the restless minds and allow the players to focus on their job for a change.

The longer it takes, the more weight this gets, the more likely a multi player trade becomes because the weight of the trade has to increase with each passing day, the longer it takes the more impact the player(s) coming in needs to have, so the price goes up.

It all sounds nice and tough to say we only trade him for the right piece(s) but they seem to forget there's a few more players on this team that are heavily influenced by the outcome of that trade.

It's people management that seems to be forgotten at the moment, which in the case where your product consists of human beings generally is not such a good idea.

NPFII
01-23-2006, 09:12 AM
UB, I fail to see why no one here sees that the "no trade" is placing so much tension on the team that it is killing everything.

Every last player not named JO has been mentioned in a trade rumour, so each and eveyone has to deal with the stress at work (am I next) AND the stress at home, are we still here next month, what should I do with the kids school and so on and so on.

In the beginning there is the relief of Ron gone, no more stress from that angle, but by now it has been replaced by the far more tangible wide spread "am I going to get traded with Ron" stress.

After 6 weeks, this kind of thing only grows, wilder and wilder, it freezes people up, some can handle it better then others, but it will have a devastating influence on the group as a whole.

I don't care who to blame for it, because blame is not a solution, a trade or confirmation of no-trade is.

Ron for a draft pick would be a bad trade in your eyes, but it would bring peace to the restless minds and allow the players to focus on their job for a change.

The longer it takes, the more weight this gets, the more likely a multi player trade becomes because the weight of the trade has to increase with each passing day, the longer it takes the more impact the player(s) coming in needs to have, so the price goes up.

It all sounds nice and tough to say we only trade him for the right piece(s) but they seem to forget there's a few more players on this team that are heavily influenced by the outcome of that trade.

It's people management that seems to be forgotten at the moment, which in the case where your product consists of human beings generally is not such a good idea.

Agreed.

Management should choose 1 of 2 options:
1. Tank the season, declare a trade of Artest will happen only in the summer, the team will become a lottery team as players want to prove themselves and "trade value" becomes a lockerroom issue. In the summer decide if JO is staying or not (I think yes), and get an all-star for the rest.
2. Try to salvage the team - trade Artest (for a young prospect like Pietrus, or draft choice, or an injured Maggette. Continue competing and making the playoffs, only to be knocked out by a better team. Re-group in the summer and only then decide what you want to do.

I have a feeling they chose option 1, but haven't said it yet because they secretely hoped that number 2 would happen, but with a good trade.

diamonddave00
01-23-2006, 10:04 AM
Amen Able , aside from Jermaine - I'm sure every player has wondered will I be dealt? That plus injuries and switching of lineups and rotations seems to have everyone thinking whats next? Donnie , needs to pull the trigger on a trade. The sooner the Artest saga ends the better. What could be ironic is if Corey Maggette is back playing before Artest is dealt.

Pacerized
01-23-2006, 10:11 AM
I've thought all along that not trading yet was hurting the team. We have to live with that for now. What ever happens with the trade, we have to live with for possibly years to come. As hard as it is to wait, I think it's for the best.

rexnom
01-23-2006, 10:46 AM
Amen Able , aside from Jermaine - I'm sure every player has wondered will I be dealt? That plus injuries and switching of lineups and rotations seems to have everyone thinking whats next? Donnie , needs to pull the trigger on a trade. The sooner the Artest saga ends the better. What could be ironic is if Corey Maggette is back playing before Artest is dealt.

If Maggette is back then we have missed a true opportunity that I doubt we'll get back. I mean, what other Maggette-level players could there be in these five teams? I mean, I'm guessing it's GS, LAC, LAL, DEN, and possibly HOU. What players there? Especially if LAL is not offering Odom.

Tom White
01-23-2006, 10:47 AM
"When I go into that locker room at the All-Star break, I can't talk to them and say, 'We're going to do this,' because I don't know where we're at," forward Jermaine O'Neal said. "I don't know where we're at right now, and that's hard to swallow.

Am I reading this wrong? JO is worried about what to say to his all-star cronies? I would hope (as the supposed leader of this Pacers team) that he would have a greater concern about his own teammates, and helping them get through their worries about possibly being traded.

Again, maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it sounded kind of odd to me.

Willbo
01-23-2006, 10:52 AM
Yup, you are reading it wrong. He is reffering to his pacer teamates and sitting them down to work out what needs to be done from the break on.

able
01-23-2006, 10:53 AM
Am I reading this wrong? JO is worried about what to say to his all-star cronies? I would hope (as the supposed leader of this Pacers team) that he would have a greater concern about his own teammates, and helping them get through their worries about possibly being traded.

Again, maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it sounded kind of odd to me.
yes you read it wrong, it is obviously a quote take out of context, and f'd up along the way; read this as: "I can't say, 'We're going to do this,' because I don't know where we're at," forward Jermaine O'Neal said. "I don't know where we're at right now, and that's hard to swallow."

Certainly if you combine it with the latter quote.

sixthman
01-23-2006, 11:02 AM
I think Kravitz and his demands that Artest be traded were part of Ron's public trade request melt down. Wouldn't surprise me if JO isn't privately requesting a trade by this summer.

Hicks
01-23-2006, 11:04 AM
However, JO has said the past few years he liked to brag to the other all-stars about his team when we're doing well, like in 2003 and 2004 (at that point).

Kegboy
01-23-2006, 11:27 AM
Am I reading this wrong? JO is worried about what to say to his all-star cronies? I would hope (as the supposed leader of this Pacers team) that he would have a greater concern about his own teammates, and helping them get through their worries about possibly being traded.

Again, maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it sounded kind of odd to me.

I read it as he's embarrased and is not looking forward to facing his peers. It's certainly not a major concern for him, but IMO it is a valid one.

Tom White
01-23-2006, 11:36 AM
Thanks for the various takes on that quote, guys.

Kegboy and Hicks touched a bit on what I was seeing in JO's quote and it made me wonder where JO's mindset was.

naptownmenace
01-23-2006, 11:42 AM
UB, I fail to see why no one here sees that the "no trade" is placing so much tension on the team that it is killing everything.


Oh I see it. I've seen it from week 1 of the trade saga. Several others have noticed this as well.

bread
01-23-2006, 11:43 AM
I have a feeling that DW is just holding out until Maggette gets healthy enough to be traded. Until then he has to tell reporters something every time they ask. He's just putting up a smokescreen because he basically has a deal in hand but will drop it if a better one pops up.

JMO. But I hope that's the case.

Bball
01-23-2006, 02:37 PM
So JO didn't say what he said... or mean what he said? I think it's clear he's talking about what he's going to say to his All-Star buddies.

-Bball

Jermaniac
01-23-2006, 02:44 PM
So JO didn't say what he said... or mean what he said? I think it's clear he's talking about what he's going to say to his All-Star buddies.

-BballIs the point of your life to hate on Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsley? Seriously do you cry when JO and Tins have good games?

BillS
01-23-2006, 02:54 PM
So JO didn't say what he said... or mean what he said? I think it's clear he's talking about what he's going to say to his All-Star buddies.

-Bball

There's no way to know because the poor writing didn't quote the antecedant for "that locker room" nor inserted the [who JO was talking about] typical of good, clear journalism.

You can agree or disagree with Mike Wells but he sure leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to clear writing.

Unclebuck
01-23-2006, 03:02 PM
UB, I fail to see why no one here sees that the "no trade" is placing so much tension on the team that it is killing everything.





I see it. It is rather obvious.

But the most important thing for this franchise is to get the best deal possible. I'm going to judge LB and DW on the trade they make, not on when it was made. If that means throwing away this whole season, then so be.

Of course you could argue that the offers aren't going to get any better. We'll see

MagicRat
01-23-2006, 07:04 PM
Am I reading this wrong? JO is worried about what to say to his all-star cronies? I would hope (as the supposed leader of this Pacers team) that he would have a greater concern about his own teammates, and helping them get through their worries about possibly being traded.

Again, maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but it sounded kind of odd to me.

Greg Rakestraw played that quote as a part of a march larger sound bite during my drive home. Wells didn't get the quote quite right, from what I heard, but JO was definitely talking about being at the all-star game. He was talking about being in the locker room and talking with his peers "especially at the all-star game".

As far was where his head is, it came from a larger bite where JO went on and on about it being his fault, how he didn't want to hold the city and team hostage with his salary if he couldn't get the job done here, etc. It was right after the game Saturday night but he clearly had a case of the Mondays. He sounded thoroughly dejected.......