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Unclebuck
01-21-2006, 11:22 PM
I wished I'd gone to a movie instead of the Pacers game tonight. I've never felt that way before, ever.

There were parts of the game where I honestly wanted to cheer for the Bulls. In fact the Pacers need to play like the Bulls. The Bulls play extremely hard, they play together, they play with a lot of effort, they play very unselfishly. The Pacers tonight were as flat as I've seen them this whole season. Yes I realize the schedule has not been kind to the Pacers lately, too many games and the disruption Tinsley and J.O has caused by coming back has the team completely out of sink.

But what disguusted me was the Pacers effort, it just wasn't there.

I thought Cro played decent, everyone else played just horrible. My favorite player on the court tonight was by far Tyson Chandler, wow, he dominated the game, I love Jeff Foster, but Chandler is better and I just love his game.

The Pacers players did not stick together tonight, J.O and Jeff were arguing after J.O. tried to pass the ball to Jeff, the players splintered and tried to do it on their own. Every player did that tonight. Every player. Fred, AJ, Saras. Tinsley and Harrison were especially bad tonight. But T is just coming back, so he deserves a pass, but his shot selection was mystifying.

One thing I find frustrating is the criticism of Rick Carlisle. Most of the criticism I hear, or read is that Rick should play so and so. Rick should open up the offense, Rick shouldn't call every play. You guys are missing the forest for the trees (is that the saying). All those little decisions are really not that important. I fear that the team does not seem to be responding to Rick. Now that is a huge issue. Rick is a great coach, but maybe this team has been through too much over the past year and a half, the trauma has been too great and unfortunetly maybe Rick along with half the players need to go in order for this franchise to move forward. He deserves better, but it is something that has to be considered.


And one more thing. I miss Ron Artest. There I said it.

GetOdom
01-21-2006, 11:27 PM
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/thedagger888/ChuckNorris.gif

Jermaniac
01-21-2006, 11:29 PM
That 2nd half was horrible, they came out like this was a game at the YMCA and the Bulls came out like it was a playoff game. I doubt we hit more then 10 shots in the 2nd half.

317Kim
01-21-2006, 11:31 PM
The second half was ugly..one of the ugliest I've seen. We totaled 28 points in two quarters while the bulls had 25 in the third and 26 in the fourth.

Outlaw
01-21-2006, 11:37 PM
Funny thing is,is that the Bulls don't even have a star on ther roster at the moment that I see,nothing but role players.And yet they sure play well as a TEAM and play hard.

317Kim
01-21-2006, 11:42 PM
JO's first game back. Tins' first game starting in a while. My first day back in the game thread in a long time. Pacers first time going into the 2nd quarter leading in a few games. A lot of firsts tonight...too bad they all ended with an ugly lost and a record of 21-18.

Doug in CO
01-21-2006, 11:44 PM
And one more thing. I miss Ron Artest. There I said it.

Me too

317Kim
01-21-2006, 11:45 PM
You guys might end up missing Ron a bit more since we play the Cavs twice next week.

CableKC
01-21-2006, 11:47 PM
Tonight...it was a collective effort of suck. Everyone did a good job of contributing to the overall suckiness.

The only one that seemed to be consistent was Croshere.

Fireball Kid
01-21-2006, 11:49 PM
We're DEEP................in a Black Hole.

CableKC
01-21-2006, 11:52 PM
One thing I find frustrating is the criticism of Rick Carlisle. Most of the criticism I hear, or read is that Rick should play so and so. Rick should open up the offense, Rick shouldn't call every play. You guys are missing the forest for the trees (is that the saying). All those little decisions are really not that important. I fear that the team does not seem to be responding to Rick. Now that is a huge issue. Rick is a great coach, but maybe this team has been through too much over the past year and a half, the trauma has been too great and unfortunetly maybe Rick along with half the players need to go in order for this franchise to move forward. He deserves better, but it is something that has to be considered.

And one more thing. I miss Ron Artest. There I said it.

The one thing I did notice that I finally do like with Carlisle is that it looks like he has settled on a 1st and 2nd unit ( more or less ).

Starting unit:

Tinsley/AJ/SJax/JONeal/Harrison

2nd unit:

Sarunas/Freddie/Granger/Croshere/Foster

I'm happy as long as Sarunas isn't playing with AJ and playing the PG spot.

grace
01-21-2006, 11:54 PM
I love the Bulls as much as the next displaced Pacer fan, but don't get too hung up on Tyson Chandler's one good game this year. I'd like to think this is his break out game, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

I have no idea what the Pacers' problem was tonight. Both teams played last night. In fact the Bulls lost in double overtime and then didn't travel until this morning. Add to that they had a long players only meeting after the game last night.

The Pacers probably need a players only meeting, but I'm afraid they'd turn on each other and things would be even worse. Maybe they need to go watch Glory Road. Then they'd see a team that had more to deal with than they do.

GetOdom
01-21-2006, 11:55 PM
Should we make a petition to bring Ron back?

grace
01-21-2006, 11:57 PM
Should we make a petition to bring Ron back?

Only if you want to **** Jermaine off. That is unless he's backed off his "It's me or him" statement.

Jermaniac
01-22-2006, 12:17 AM
Should we make a petition to bring Ron back? No, he doesnt want to play here so he shouldnt play here. After all he has done to the Pacers I cant believe some of you still want him to play on the team.

Sollozzo
01-22-2006, 01:44 AM
I never thought I'd hear myself say this.

Put Ron back, atleast for the rest of this season.

This sorry bunch we have out there isn't going to do anything. Keep playing like this, and we won't even see the playoffs. The Pacers have fallen off of the radar. Teams like the Nets and Cavaliers have easily surpassed us.

N8R
01-22-2006, 02:03 AM
The Bulls had never won in Conseico Field House until tonight and what a blowout. Tis a sad day.

Will Galen
01-22-2006, 02:17 AM
I turned the Pacers off in the second half and watched a family channel movie and it was much better than watching the Pacers.

This team needs broken up.

Seriously the pieces don't fit for some reason. Remember the year that Tinsleys mom passed away? The Pacers just inexplicably quit the second half of that year. I really think there were too many emotional players on that team and now we've added Jackson and Harrison to the mix.

Other than JO, we have a bunch of players that each seems to be a little better than average. And that's all we have, a team that's a little better than average. That is unless they don't quit like they did that one season under Isiah.

I think what this team needs is a player that demands the ball and can do something with it in crunch time. If we can't get that sort of player it's time to clean the gun and reload.

bnd45
01-22-2006, 02:20 AM
Yeah, tonight was the first time since Ronnie "left the team" that we just quit. We played poorly in some other games, but tonight they just didn't want to play basketball. Something needs to be done. We are 2 games away from the official halfway point. Tough to remember that help is on the way after feeling so pissed off watching these characters.

NZPacer
01-22-2006, 03:20 AM
I think what this team needs is a player that demands the ball and can do something with it in crunch time. If we can't get that sort of player it's time to clean the gun and reload.

Maggette?

Bball
01-22-2006, 03:52 AM
Are you guys telling me that I did myself a favor by working tonight and having to miss the game?

-Bball

rexnom
01-22-2006, 06:44 AM
I am so lost...I don't even know what to think anymore...Part of me wishes we just would've ignored Ron's trade demand and moved on...bad chemistry and all...I don't know. A move needs to be made. It seems that both the team and the fans are disheartened these days...Two HUGE games against the Cavs coming up and we're looking like an Isiah Thomas coached team...

Slick Pinkham
01-22-2006, 07:16 AM
Are you guys telling me that I did myself a favor by working tonight and having to miss the game?

-Bball


Like Will Galen, I channel surfed starting in the 3rd quarter, after it got especially ugly, and watched an old movie on "the Oxygen network"

Heck, home shopping network would have been preferable.

The "Indy Five Hundreds" are back. We are a 0.500 team, it seems.

Exciting, huh... maybe we can make it into the playoffs! :sarcasm:

Bball
01-22-2006, 07:21 AM
You guys asking for Ron back have to ask yourself just how smoothly (or not) things would go plugging him into this mess.

Altho I think a very good question is what NBA team would be interested in a player that the Pacers, a team that could really use Artest, refuses to play? It's no wonder nobody wants to offer much. We're falling apart, question marks everywhere, injuries, etc... and there's no way we feel we can play Artest without making things worse. That's not exactly a position of strength NOR a selling point for us and Artest right now.

I said last year Stern's (overt) punishment and total focus on the Pacers was a death sentence. He threw the team under the bus. Meanwhile, the Piston fans are enjoying another year as an NBA frontrunner. And I don't think we have the kind of management who is very good at quick fixes.

-Bball

hoopsforlife
01-22-2006, 08:05 AM
I wished I'd gone to a movie instead of the Pacers game tonight. I've never felt that way before, ever.

There were parts of the game where I honestly wanted to cheer for the Bulls. In fact the Pacers need to play like the Bulls. The Bulls play extremely hard, they play together, they play with a lot of effort, they play very unselfishly. The Pacers tonight were as flat as I've seen them this whole season. Yes I realize the schedule has not been kind to the Pacers lately, too many games and the disruption Tinsley and J.O has caused by coming back has the team completely out of sink.

But what disguusted me was the Pacers effort, it just wasn't there.

I thought Cro played decent, everyone else played just horrible. My favorite player on the court tonight was by far Tyson Chandler, wow, he dominated the game, I love Jeff Foster, but Chandler is better and I just love his game.

The Pacers players did not stick together tonight, J.O and Jeff were arguing after J.O. tried to pass the ball to Jeff, the players splintered and tried to do it on their own. Every player did that tonight. Every player. Fred, AJ, Saras. Tinsley and Harrison were especially bad tonight. But T is just coming back, so he deserves a pass, but his shot selection was mystifying.

One thing I find frustrating is the criticism of Rick Carlisle. Most of the criticism I hear, or read is that Rick should play so and so. Rick should open up the offense, Rick shouldn't call every play. You guys are missing the forest for the trees (is that the saying). All those little decisions are really not that important. I fear that the team does not seem to be responding to Rick. Now that is a huge issue. Rick is a great coach, but maybe this team has been through too much over the past year and a half, the trauma has been too great and unfortunetly maybe Rick along with half the players need to go in order for this franchise to move forward. He deserves better, but it is something that has to be considered.


And one more thing. I miss Ron Artest. There I said it.

I agree with you Buck. Its a good thing that Lincoln documentary was on the History channel or I might have just shut the TV off. I said last summer that Ron was the heart and soul of this team and I still believe that. I miss him too. At least he tried every game. :(

Strany
01-22-2006, 08:19 AM
Yep, but the thing is it has been slowly migrating to this point all season. I have watched the Pacers since the ABA days and even in the bad times I found enjoyment in watching them. For the first time I hate our team. Not all the players but the team as a whole. They do not even come close to playing like a team. I even find myself uniterested in our wins.

To be a fan of a NBA team requires a large amount of one's life each year.
I can accept losing if we have a young team that play's hard, but I just can not continue to waste this much time watching the crap I have this year.

I will continue to follow them but I do think I will do that from a distance until we clear out the mess we currently have. Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky but they really make me miserable.

skyfire
01-22-2006, 08:24 AM
Tyson Chandler played 6 minutes in the Bulls 2OT loss to the Rockets, tho the Bulls seem to have played alot of small ball in that game.

indygeezer
01-22-2006, 08:33 AM
You do NOT miss Ron Artest. You miss the ILLUSION of Ron Artest and what he could be. You are stuck with the REALITY of what Ron Artest is and has done to this team.

SycamoreKen
01-22-2006, 09:43 AM
I had a dream last night that Artest came back. It ended before anything else could happen other than him walking onto the court.

Doug in CO
01-22-2006, 09:52 AM
I miss the intensity, skills, and intangibles ON THE FLOOR (not in the stands, locker room, etc.) that Ron brings - face it, he is fun to watch

I see some people are coming around to my line of thinking - 2 weeks ago I said some of this same stuff, got slammed, and have mostly lurked since

Jon Theodore
01-22-2006, 12:18 PM
I hope we miss the playoffs, so management realizes they need to do more than just trade Artest.

Unclebuck
01-22-2006, 12:40 PM
I hope we miss the playoffs, so management realizes they need to do more than just trade Artest.


They know

Bball
01-22-2006, 01:19 PM
They know

Care to elaborate?

-BBall

Old as Dirt
01-22-2006, 01:24 PM
They just poved last nite that they are not a team but 12 self serving players. That second half when the Bulls would drive to the basket NO one would shift over and help guard. They have been more than once this year. And until they decide that basketball is a 5 man game. We can expect the same. And I don't blame the coach, the over paid ones on the floor are the ones who are playing.

Unclebuck
01-22-2006, 01:35 PM
Care to elaborate?

-BBall

I just think it is obvious. This team needs some major changes and I truly believe the team will be drastically different when next season starts. There might not be more than 4 or 5 players back from the current roster to start next season. I expect Ron to be traded very soon, and even though they likely won't make a series of trades before the Feb deadline, they will make other significant changes this summer. Unless of course the Ron trade cures all and the team comes together and gets to the second round of the playoffs and plays eithr the heat or Pistons really well.

Bird and Donnie are not stupid, they know better than we do that major changes are needed. I have every confidence in the world that they will make major changes. k

Keep in mind DW and LB knows what goes on behind the scenes, they know, they know. Watching Bird and then Walsh walk down the tunnel one after the after late in the third quarter, convinced me, they know. They both looked disgusted. In fact I've never seen them both get up and leave at the same time during a game like that. They both came back and I'm not saying, that they decided anything at that moment, but they'll not stupid.

Bball
01-22-2006, 01:44 PM
So is JO part of the problem or part of the solution?

-BBall

Unclebuck
01-22-2006, 01:53 PM
So is JO part of the problem or part of the solution?

-BBall


With the current mix of players, I think everyone is part of the problem, I mean everyone.

Bball, I keep going back to your Humpty Dumpty discussion this past summer, that has proven to be 100% correct. I think this current team has been through too much, and that applies to the coaching staff. Sometimes episodes in your life are too traumatic that you cannot correct the problem by trying to improve the situation, you often need to change the situation.

rexnom
01-22-2006, 02:20 PM
With the current mix of players, I think everyone is part of the problem, I mean everyone.

Bball, I keep going back to your Humpty Dumpty discussion this past summer, that has proven to be 100% correct. I think this current team has been through too much, and that applies to the coaching staff. Sometimes episodes in your life are too traumatic that you cannot correct the problem by trying to improve the situation, you often need to change the situation.

I don't know if I want to go quite that far yet. Keyword being YET. It seems possible. The more and more I think about it though, that brawl affected us in many, many ways. Just to think what one little cup can do, huh?

Lord Helmet
01-22-2006, 03:06 PM
To people who are on the "Let Ron play the rest of the year" bandwagon.

Ron himself doesn't want to play for us.

Peck
01-22-2006, 04:06 PM
I will never understand you people that still want Ron Artest to be a part of this team.

I don't care how good he was or how good you thought he was the man is nothing but trouble.

We were in deep trouble early this season & that was with Ron Artest on our team.

Bringing back Ron now only would magnify & intensify an obvious major problem with our team one that Reggie Miller himself told everybody very early on in the season. That our team has major chemistry issues. Walsh & Bird fiddled as Rome burned around them & have done nothing to change this situation. Other than finally put an end to our public embarassement, but even then it took Ron going on TV & telling the entire world that he didn't want to play anymore for the Pacers.

Look when you have a total collapse like this you can go one of three ways & none of which are easy.

1. Fire the players (ie. trade a major portion of them away)

2. Fire the coach (but is a new coach going to make a differance)

3. Fire the management (I'm not sure that with Walsh re-inserting himself here that we haven't had some form of restructuring already)

There is option # 4 which is what we are doing right now & that is nothing.

Any of us that have lived long enough to see Walsh in action will know that what we will probably see is # 2.

That has always been the M.O. in the past. However I don't know if that is what they will do now.

I'm sorry but #3 needs to be evaluated as well. I know it will never happen but all of this was done under Birds/Walsh's watch. I have a feeling that Bird is the one who made tolerated this mess & his "milk drinkers" comments come back to haunt me more & more everyday. But then again it was Donnie who made the comment about Talent over character (or something like that, I don't remember the real quote)

I still have faith that this can be righted, but I also understand there needs to be a change.

I'm all in favor of changing Carlisle as long as somebody can tell me who is going to replace him that will make a differance. Good coach's are not that easy to find.

I would have no problem trading away some of our players but honestly at this point in time a total overhaul will completely end this season. It would take months to get any form of working cohesion.

I think Bird has already been drawn back in & relagated to P.R. stunt for Europeans. In other words we keep shipping Larry off across the Atlantic to where he is still reveared as a God. But that to may change if Saras becomes more publicly disgruntled with the franchise than he already is.

I hate to sound like a real pessimist here but we are really in quite a pickle.

Somewhere along the way Walsh allowed the team to be filled with malcontents. Like has been said many times you can have a few malcontents on your team, however you can't have them all at your key positions.

BTW, what has happened to Jermaine O'Neals leadership? It seemed early on he was handling it quite well, now he seems to have dissapeared.

What does my rambling post mean? Not a damn thing. I'm as stumped by this as you guys are.

stipo
01-22-2006, 04:08 PM
Luckily, I gave my tickets for last nights game away. My best decision all week.

Unclebuck
01-22-2006, 04:16 PM
I would have no problem trading away some of our players but honestly at this point in time a total overhaul will completely end this season. It would take months to get any form of working cohesion.




That is why Ron will be traded very soon and then other significant changes will take place this summer, unless someone makes a great offer before the trade deadline.

PacerMan
01-22-2006, 04:34 PM
I just think it is obvious. This team needs some major changes and I truly believe the team will be drastically different when next season starts. There might not be more than 4 or 5 players back from the current roster to start next season. I expect Ron to be traded very soon, and even though they likely won't make a series of trades before the Feb deadline, they will make other significant changes this summer. Unless of course the Ron trade cures all and the team comes together and gets to the second round of the playoffs and plays eithr the heat or Pistons really well.

Bird and Donnie are not stupid, they know better than we do that major changes are needed. I have every confidence in the world that they will make major changes. k

Keep in mind DW and LB knows what goes on behind the scenes, they know, they know. Watching Bird and then Walsh walk down the tunnel one after the after late in the third quarter, convinced me, they know. They both looked disgusted. In fact I've never seen them both get up and leave at the same time during a game like that. They both came back and I'm not saying, that they decided anything at that moment, but they'll not stupid.

Donnie smoked a ciggy and Larry smoked a fatty.

hoopsforlife
01-22-2006, 05:04 PM
I just think it is obvious. This team needs some major changes and I truly believe the team will be drastically different when next season starts. There might not be more than 4 or 5 players back from the current roster to start next season. I expect Ron to be traded very soon, and even though they likely won't make a series of trades before the Feb deadline, they will make other significant changes this summer. Unless of course the Ron trade cures all and the team comes together and gets to the second round of the playoffs and plays eithr the heat or Pistons really well.

Bird and Donnie are not stupid, they know better than we do that major changes are needed. I have every confidence in the world that they will make major changes. k

Keep in mind DW and LB knows what goes on behind the scenes, they know, they know. Watching Bird and then Walsh walk down the tunnel one after the after late in the third quarter, convinced me, they know. They both looked disgusted. In fact I've never seen them both get up and leave at the same time during a game like that. They both came back and I'm not saying, that they decided anything at that moment, but they'll not stupid.

Uncle Buck: Did they leave about the time Steve Jackson was lying on the floor with his hands over his eyes and the Bulls were passing the ball inbounds? Jackson got up quickly but it might have been too late for him if DW and Bird saw that.

I know that Ron won't come back to this team because there are too many pride issues now, but if I could trade Ron for Steve Jackson I would do it in a heartbeat. The criteria, for my Pacer team would be, are you willing to play with Ron and if not where would you like to play? I would fit players around Ron and Saras, not JO and Jamal.

I really believe Carlisle needs to start Granger, Saras, Fred, Cro and Foster and give them enough minutes to see what they can do.

Rick needs to tighten the rotation until he finds a winning combination. He is playing too many guys right now. If somebody has to sit so be it. That includes All Stars, wannabe All Stars with attitudes, and anybody else who stands in the way of success.

Some hard choices need to be made or else this years Pacers are history. :(

Bball
01-22-2006, 06:27 PM
A lot of people are blaming Bird in all this. At the same time some people have argued Bird is a figurehead. It can't be both ways. Some of us (me) thought Bird would add a bit of urgency to the front office that we had lacked.... But that was assuming he wasn't a figurehead.

If we look at the bigger picture, and the whole Artest thing, it has Walsh's MO all over it. How is that, you ask? Because we did nothing about Artest in the end (whether you talk about after the 04 ECF's, 11/19, or this past summer. We were cautious. We were patient. Nothing happened.

Nothing...

Nothing...

That's classic Donnie Walsh.


-Bball

Hicks
01-22-2006, 06:36 PM
A lot of people are blaming Bird in all this. At the same time some people have argued Bird is a figurehead. It can't be both ways.

*ding ding ding ding ding*

Unclebuck
01-22-2006, 06:46 PM
The only thing I give credit or blame to Bird on is the signing of Saras. DW never would or could have signed him. Everything else I place on Donnie.

grace
01-22-2006, 08:48 PM
A lot of people are blaming Bird in all this. At the same time some people have argued Bird is a figurehead. It can't be both ways.

I don't know why it can't be both ways. He was hired to be the President (or whatever his offical title is). As far as I know that's still his job title. The problem is he's performing like a figurehead.

UB, Donnie leaves his seat on most of the time outs. If they let him smoke in his seat he'd probably never leave. Maybe Larry left to go find a trade.