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View Full Version : Lorbek - 3rd at European Young Menís Player of the Year



Rytas_Jega
01-21-2006, 08:06 AM
http://www.fibaeurope.com/coid_QwXnuVLeIEU,WP8j2A4S02.articleMode_on.html

1 Nikolaos Zisis GRE 122
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=ABN
2 Nenad Krstic SCG 113
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nenad_krstic/
3 Erazem Lorbek SLO 100
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BWL
4 Mickael Gelabale FRA 88
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BHN
5 Fran Vazquez ESP 77
11th pick at 2005 NBA draft.
6 Roko-Leni Ukic CRO 65
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=CJA
7 Paulius Jankunas LTU 57
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BWI
8 Renaldas Seibutis LTU 57
http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=KNO
9 Rudy Fernandez ESP 38
10 Sergio Rodriguez ESP 35

Overrated:
Roko Leni-Ukic. Normal Euroleague level (games against current state Lubliana Olimpija do not count) is not for him right now.

Renaldas Seibutis got 2005 U-21 World Championship MVP that Paulius Jankunas deserved. At Euroleague he is the same nothing like Ukic for today.

Underrated:
Paulius Jankunas, the best player of 2005 U-21 World champions. Quite important at Lithuanian national team. Has the best Euroleague statistics from all Euroleague players mentioned in this list. Should be at least at the 3rd place, IMO.

Sorry for posting 2 days old news. Couldn't get to the Pacersdigest in recent days.

Mourning
01-21-2006, 09:42 AM
Nice! Still remains to be seen how he would translate to the NBA, but let him get all this experience and give him a chance next summer or the year after that.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Anthem
01-21-2006, 11:11 AM
Hey, that's cool. Have any of our European posters watched him play recently? I assume he's playing better?

Kestas
01-21-2006, 11:38 AM
Hey, that's cool. Have any of our European posters watched him play recently? I assume he's playing better?

I watched him play last december. Climamio are coming to Kaunas in three weaks time, so I'll see him then as well.
the guy is very noticable, but i wouldn't say he's better than last year. his stats are worse than the other center, Bagaric's, has on that team, but they both are not very noticable on the Euroleague scale. what's bennefiting him is that Climamio use their guards much more than their front line. thus they have only two centers and Lorbek plays a lot (25 minutes on average). that may make him look better than he actually is, coz in some other Euroleague teams he would hardly get 25 minutes per game (but would probably get more in the weakest ones as well ;)). anyways, despite all that he still gets only 4 boards on average, which is weak. I can't say much about his deffense. normal, I guess. but as I said, Climamio frontline is only average in Euroleague in all respects.
a good center in the making, surely, but, as I mentioned, did not explode the way some would have expected this year in Euroleague (or did he?).
imho in terms of tallent he's bellow my man Jankunas, but it's stupid to argue about such polls. btw, Euroleague will also sellect the young player of the season in the spring (though some noticable players like Vazques do not play in Euroleague).
regarding his future in NBA, I'd say it's bright, (almost) for sure. lot's of centers playing in Europe could be usefull in NBA. some never even tried (like Eurelijus Zukauskas, who was sellected by some team, but always stated he doesn't want to go to NBA, despite being called the best deffending center in Euroleague and having a bunch of international medals under his belt with LTU).

Mourning
01-21-2006, 11:45 AM
That's why we should keep him in Europe and see him developing there first, before he can take the next possible step in the NBA.

Hicks
01-21-2006, 11:53 AM
He doesn't sound like a guy who will make it here.

Rytas_Jega
01-21-2006, 12:57 PM
Erazem has met 2 of 3 strongest Euroleague frontlines - Kaunas Žalgirs (leader in rebounds and blocks in Euroleague, consists of psyche monster Tanoka Beard, Darjus Lavrinovic and two 2005 u21 World champions Jankunas and Silinskis) and Vitoria Tau Ceramica (Luis Scola, Tiago Splitter, Predrag Drobnjak, Kornel David) this season. The other is Tel Aviv Maccabi.

Stats against Tau Ceramica: first game: 27min 5pts (fg:1/6 3pt:0/1 ft:3/4) 6reb 1ast 2stl 5fl
second game: 24min 3pts (fg:0/4 3pt:0/2 ft:3/4) 5reb 3ast 1blk
Stats against Zalgiris without injured Tanoka Beard: first game: 27min 9pts (fg:4/10 3pt:1/2 ft:0/0) 5reb, 2 stl. I watched this game (but just on TV). Lorbek looked slower than last season, but showed the same nice shooting technique. I couldn't see any progress in his game. He showed no aggressiveness he had alittle bit last season. Climamio won that game, however, Zalgiris' Darjus Lavrinovic teared Lorbek down with 24 points (fg:9/17, 3pt: 3/6, ft: 3/3) 4reb, 3stl, 4blk. Paulius Jankunas had a bad day with 14 points (tragic shooting fg: 2/13, 3pt: 0/4 ft:10/14) and 9 rebounds.

I don't know what's happening with Erazem. Maybe he spends too much time dreaming about NBA. Last season Climamio had much better team, but Erazem looked pretty good. Now they are very average team with way too good 7-4 record, the same as quality teams like Zalgirs and Benetton who had many injury problems.

Rytas_Jega
01-21-2006, 01:06 PM
He doesn't sound like a guy who will make it here.

What is "here"? Is this the same "here" where Nenad Krstic is?

Lorbek isn't Nikola Vujcic, he isn't Lavrinovic or Scola, but he's quite intelligent tall player with solid offensive arsenal to be average bench player at NBA right now, IMO.

Anthem
01-21-2006, 04:44 PM
What is "here"? Is this the same "here" where Nenad Krstic is?

Lorbek isn't Nikola Vujcic, he isn't Lavrinovic or Scola, but he's quite intelligent tall player with solid offensive arsenal to be average bench player at NBA right now, IMO.
Austin Croshere is an average-to-good bench player in the NBA.

I haven't seen him, but nothing makes me think Lorbek has the ability to become as good as Austin.

I'm ok if we never bring him over. He was a 2nd-round pick; we didn't lose anything.

Kestas
01-21-2006, 05:26 PM
I haven't seen him, but nothing makes me think Lorbek has the ability to become as good as Austin.


from http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=BWL

-----------
Won the 2004-05 Italian National Championship with Fortitudo Bologna…named the 2004-05 Euroleague Rising Star…has been member of the Slovenian Cadets National Team…member of the Slovenian Junior National Team…won the silver medal at the 2002 European Junior Championship…led the 2002 European Junior Championship in scoring (23.8 ppg.) and rebounding (10.8 rpg.)…played at the 2003 World Junior Championship…member of the Slovenian Under-20 National Team…won the gold medal at the 2004 European Under-20 Championship…played at the 2002 European Under-20 Championship…named the 2004 European Under-20 Championship MVP…named to the 2004 All- European Under-20 Championship 1st Team…member of the Slovenian National Team… played at the 2005 European Championship.
------------

he's 21 years old.

now who the heck was Austin in his teens?? ;)

anyways, if he doesn't make it to NBA, Europe will be happy. nobody likes when young tallents are given up to NBA. unfortunately, he'll probably be there sooner or later.

btw, Slovenia's in the same group as USA for this year's World Championships. he should be there for you to have a better look.

Rytas_Jega
01-21-2006, 05:49 PM
Austin Croshere is an average-to-good bench player in the NBA.

I haven't seen him, but nothing makes me think Lorbek has the ability to become as good as Austin.


Does every average NBA bench player get Croshere's contracts? Sorry, I'm not much acquainted with NBA players salaries.



I'm ok if we never bring him over. He was a 2nd-round pick; we didn't lose anything.

Erazem is more talented and versatile player than his compatriot former Pacer Primoz Brezec. Of course, Lorbek isn't 7'1, just 6'11. Lorbek used to play 1-3 position at his young days, as I remember he was small forward at u18 championship. And finally he became a frontline player at the age of 19-20. 19 years old Erazem was the same dominant as 20 Nenad Krstic at u-20 European Championship in Lithuania.

Erazem struggles current season, but it doesn't mean he lost his talent.

Rytas_Jega
01-21-2006, 05:56 PM
btw, Slovenia's in the same group as USA for this year's World Championships. he should be there for you to have a better look.

Slovenia and Italy, two unpredictable teams of three point bombers. USA better bring their Allen, Billups, Redd.

Anthem
01-21-2006, 07:04 PM
Does every average NBA bench player get Croshere's contracts? Sorry, I'm not much acquainted with NBA players salaries.
Austin's will be up by the time Lorbek's ready to play in the NBA. His current salary is high, but the one he re-signs will be quite reasonable.

BlueNGold
01-22-2006, 12:03 AM
Austin Croshere is an average-to-good bench player in the NBA.

I haven't seen him, but nothing makes me think Lorbek has the ability to become as good as Austin.

I'm ok if we never bring him over. He was a 2nd-round pick; we didn't lose anything.
I think Cro is a very good backup. He is 4th in the league in free throw shooting pct. and 10th in 3pt shooting pct. Consequently, he has a very good points per field goal attempt. He is also fairly good at rebounding and can dunk the ball on occasion.

He is very capable of averaging an efficient 10-12 ppg with 7 rebounds per game if he got starter's minutes. The last 5 games have been a good example where he has averaged roughly 30-35 minutes w/ 15ppg. Only a very good backup can do that.

Some backups will have a good or great game once in awhile, but Cro has shown some consistency. I hope the Pacers hang onto him because we need his shooting.

Mourning
01-22-2006, 04:34 PM
I think Cro is a very good backup. He is 4th in the league in free throw shooting pct. and 10th in 3pt shooting pct. Consequently, he has a very good points per field goal attempt. He is also fairly good at rebounding and can dunk the ball on occasion.

He is very capable of averaging an efficient 10-12 ppg with 7 rebounds per game if he got starter's minutes. The last 5 games have been a good example where he has averaged roughly 30-35 minutes w/ 15ppg. Only a very good backup can do that.

Some backups will have a good or great game once in awhile, but Cro has shown some consistency. I hope the Pacers hang onto him because we need his shooting.

And we might need his play by example and his non-*****ing style when he doesn't get his minutes, shots, plays or whatever. Someone who takes it for the team when needed.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Mourning
01-22-2006, 04:39 PM
Austin Croshere is an average-to-good bench player in the NBA.

I haven't seen him, but nothing makes me think Lorbek has the ability to become as good as Austin.

I'm ok if we never bring him over. He was a 2nd-round pick; we didn't lose anything.

If you haven't seen him ... how could you have such a distinctively clear view or take on him? I don't get it.

I think Croshere is an above average bench player btw. He hasn't been above average or atleast showing he's above average very long though in all honesty. He's showing what he can do now though, just hope he keeps getting some meaningfull minutes against the right opponents.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Anthem
01-22-2006, 07:56 PM
If you haven't seen him ... how could you have such a distinctively clear view or take on him? I don't get it.

That's certainly fair. But I look at the guy and have to wonder. If he can only pull down four boards a game in Europe, what makes us think he'd be able to rebound over here?

Kraft
01-22-2006, 08:18 PM
My guess is no one would have a problem with a minimum wage No. 5 or 6 big man with a well-rounded set of offensive skills -- defensive and rebounding problems included.

Just like no one would have a problem with a minimum wage shooter to keep on the bench ... like James Jones was when he got to Indiana.

SoupIsGood
01-22-2006, 08:19 PM
I think he will make it as a bench player.

Kestas
01-22-2006, 08:34 PM
My guess is no one would have a problem with a minimum wage No. 5 or 6 big man with a well-rounded set of offensive skills -- defensive and rebounding problems included.


are you suggesting Lorbek would move to NBA for a minimum wage? :laugh:

and what do you know about his problems apart from the stats me and Rytas quoted? (edit: this was a rhetorical question, I guess ;))

Anthem
01-22-2006, 09:56 PM
and what do you know about his problems apart from the stats me and Rytas quoted?
There's not a way to answer this question that you won't take the wrong way, so I'll stay out of it.

Rytas_Jega
01-24-2006, 06:36 AM
Don't write off Lorbek because of his low Euroleague stats. This is not always a right measure for palyers chances to adapt at NBA level.

Lorbek's got height, he's got some skills. He's a bit slow (he wasn't in the near past). However, slow Mehmet Okur has 18-9-3-1 NBA statistics.

Mehmet Okur at 2005 European Championship

1st game against Lithuania (lost 75-87).
Okur: 7pts (fg:3/9) 2reb
D.Lavrinovic(LIT): 14pts 6reb
K.Lavrinovic(LIT): 14pts 9reb

2nd game against Bulgaria (team without NBA and Euroleague players) won 94-89
Okur: 13pts 6reb
Mladenov(BUL): 15pts 11reb

3rd game against Croatia (lost 67-80)
Okur: 6pts 2reb
Vujcic(CRO): 20pts 2reb

4th game against Germany (lost 57-66)
Okur: 2pts (fg:1/9) 9reb
Femerling(GER): 4pts 1reb
Maras(GER): 6pts 4reb

NPFII
01-24-2006, 06:53 AM
Overrated:
Renaldas Seibutis got 2005 U-21 World Championship MVP that Paulius Jankunas deserved. At Euroleague he is the same nothing like Ukic for today.


Seibutis is a star in the making. He's the quickest non-american I've ever seen play. He's got a step on Manu, if you ask me, and Manu beat the Pistons in last year's finals.
He's a good outside shooter, has a wonderful hop, can score with both hands on the drive, has a very good FT%. And he's just 18.

He played Maccabi twice this year and both times did some things that us Maccabi fans very rarely see -
1. He was able to partly contain Anthony Parker
2. He was able to blow by Parker or Burstein as if they weren't there. You could see their amazement and appreciation for this kid.

He's exactly the type of player that is preferred in the NBA, but is less a factor in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the top 10 of the '06 draft

Kestas
01-24-2006, 07:34 AM
Seibutis is a star in the making. And he's just 18.


no, he's 20 years old (20 years and 6 months to be precise).
but I agree with your statemnet. however, half of current Lithuanian U-21 national team are stars in the making. they won the World championships despite lacking players like Linas Kleiza (Nuggets), Martynas Pocius (Duke), Martynas Andriuskevicius (Cleveland, currently in NBDL) among others..
sure, some of them will never move to NBA, but who cares? they will be the core of the future Lithuanian national team and should have very good carreers.

Rytas_Jega
01-24-2006, 07:43 AM
He used to make serious damage to Žalgiris and Lietuvos Rytas in his last two seasons. But those hadn't Parker's calibre players. Nice to hear it.

Seibutis didn't belong to any elite Lithuanian basketball school. He was noticed in Lithuanian high school championship. He was a big surprise here in Lithuania.

In 2005 summer, Linas Kleiza (Denver Nuggets) refused to play for Lithuanian u21 NT. Our press was pessimistic about winning u21 championship in Argentina, they doubted we could beat USA with Reddick and Rudy Gay. But coach Butautas took Seibutis to the team, Jankunas got to take more load under the basket and they won. Seibutis made game winning freethrows in the final against Greece, got MVP. However, he wasn't the best our team player. Jankunas also has better Euroleague statistics in Euroleague this season at stronger team. Jankunas also played well for Lithuanian NT in Euro2005.

I was most about that writing he isn't worth his place in this list.

NPFII
01-24-2006, 07:50 AM
no, he's 20 years old (20 years and 6 months to be precise).
but I agree with your statemnet. however, half of current Lithuanian U-21 national team are stars in the making. they won the World championships despite lacking players like Linas Kleiza (Nuggets), Martynas Pocius (Duke), Martynas Andriuskevicius (Cleveland, currently in NBDL) among others..
sure, some of them will never move to NBA, but who cares? they will be the core of the future Lithuanian national team and should have very good carreers.

Ok, sorry - my bad. He's 20.

I haven't seen the others except Andriuskevicius, who wasn't impressive at all. He's just tall...

I was deeply impressed by this Seibutis guy. He's a player.

NPFII
01-24-2006, 07:55 AM
He used to make serious damage to éalgiris and Lietuvos Rytas in his last two seasons. But those hadn't Parker's calibre players. Nice to hear it.

Seibutis didn't belong to any elite Lithuanian basketball school. He was noticed in Lithuanian high school championship. He was a big surprise here in Lithuania.

In 2005 summer, Linas Kleiza (Denver Nuggets) refused to play for Lithuanian u21 NT. Our press was pessimistic about winning u21 championship in Argentina, they doubted we could beat USA with Reddick and Rudy Gay. But coach Butautas took Seibutis to the team, Jankunas got to take more load under the basket and they won. Seibutis made game winning freethrows in the final against Greece, got MVP. However, he wasn't the best our team player. Jankunas also has better Euroleague statistics in Euroleague this season at stronger team. Jankunas also played well for Lithuanian NT in Euro2005.

I was most about that writing he isn't worth his place in this list.

I dont care much for titles such as MVP, or u21 championships for that sake.

I've seen Jankunas play and I've seen Seibutis play, and there's no room for any mistake. Seibutis has far more potential, and is already living up to it. Jankunas is quite the ordinary European big man. That's good, nice to have and all that, but this Seibutis character is really impressive. I mean he can do it all. He's a player at the highest level. The next Manu Ginobili.

Rytas_Jega
01-24-2006, 07:58 AM
Ok, sorry - my bad. He's 20.

I haven't seen the others except Andriuskevicius, who wasn't impressive at all. He's just tall...

I was deeply impressed by this Seibutis guy. He's a player.

Andriuökevičius was too weak for our under20 NT :D which took European silver last year, not talking about u21 NT with Jankunas, Silinskis, Jomantas, Maciulis.

Rytas_Jega
01-24-2006, 08:04 AM
I dont care much for titles such as MVP, or u21 championships for that sake.

I've seen Jankunas play and I've seen Seibutis play, and there's no room for any mistake. Seibutis has far more potential, and is already living up to it. Jankunas is quite the ordinary European big man. That's good, nice to have and all that, but this Seibutis character is really impressive. I mean he can do it all. He's a player at the highest level. The next Manu Ginobili.

IMO, this voting was more about current results than potential. That's what I was about writing Seibutis doesn't deserve to have the same 57 on this list as Jankunas.

Jankunas isn't the most talented player in Europe, but probably he's the most working. His progress is unbelievable. He works hard in trainings, even developed his range to three point. He works hard on the floor, gives all he can. He successfuly competes for playing time with Lavrinovic and Tanoka Beard.

Chauncey
01-24-2006, 09:24 AM
We are talking about the same Ezarem Lorbek that wasn't good enough to earn more than 15 minutes per game for Michigan State 3 years ago, right? He was god awful back then. Hopefully he's improved.

Rytas_Jega
01-24-2006, 10:01 AM
We are talking about the same Ezarem Lorbek that wasn't good enough to earn more than 15 minutes per game for Michigan State 3 years ago, right? He was god awful back then. Hopefully he's improved.

He was near the same dominant as Bogut or Kleiza in many International competitions.

Bogut became NCAA star (1st year: 12.5ppg 9.9rpg, 2nd year 20.4ppg 12.2rpg) at Utah and 1st NBA draft pick last year, Kleiza couldn't show much because of injuries (1st year: 11.1ppg 8.4rpg, 2nd year: 16.1ppg 7.6rpg) for Missouri, but it was enough to be drafted in the first round.
And I don't know what happened for Lorbek at Michigan.

Chauncey
01-24-2006, 10:56 AM
And I don't know what happened for Lorbek at Michigan.

Yeah I never heard the real reason he left...I've always assumed it was so he could make money playing in Europe until he was NBA ready. He was pretty young at MSU, so I'm assuming he's improved quite a bit, just haven't seen him since then.