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Jermaniac
01-20-2006, 10:07 PM
We should make this mans life easier and just trade him with Ron. Rick wont play him at his real position, he wont start him over a player that he is clearly better then. He sucks as a 2, and there is a mismatch everytime he plays it. Tinsley is about to go back to the starting 5, AJ will be the back up once again. I for one do not want to see Saras continue starting at the 2.

Moses
01-20-2006, 10:10 PM
No.

ghost
01-20-2006, 10:25 PM
Sarunas should be Pacers head coach.

rel
01-20-2006, 10:35 PM
...jamaal tinsley should be traded with artest and i dont care who for paul pierce...

Jermaniac
01-20-2006, 10:36 PM
He would probably put a better starting line up out there then little Ricky did. This was a perfect team for Danny to start against and what happens he gets no type of minutes. I dont Rick to be the coach of this team, he is going to kill both Danny's and Davids confidance.

CableKC
01-20-2006, 10:37 PM
No we shouldn't trade him.....and yes AJ should be playing behind Sarunas...if not playing the SG spot.

I don't understand why AJ isn't playing any backup SG minutes.....clearly he is better suited to play backup SG then Sarunas is ( not that he is a better shooter...but a better scorer ).

The only hope I have is that Tinsley and/or AJ is going to be traded by the start of the 2006 season.

Jermaniac
01-20-2006, 10:38 PM
Tinsley is 10 times the PG Sarunas will ever be. Shouldnt even think about trading him to open minutes up for a player like him. If we could get a good starting PG for Tinsley then trade him but dont even think about trading him to let Sarunas start.

Kegboy
01-20-2006, 11:20 PM
No way we can afford to trade Cabbage's shooting. Once he gets over labels and realizes basketball is basketball, he'll be fine.

PacerMan
01-20-2006, 11:22 PM
We should make this mans life easier and just trade him with Ron. Rick wont play him at his real position, he wont start him over a player that he is clearly better then. He sucks as a 2, and there is a mismatch everytime he plays it. Tinsley is about to go back to the starting 5, AJ will be the back up once again. I for one do not want to see Saras continue starting at the 2.

Naw, how about we just make him president?
Of the whole world??

Jermaniac
01-20-2006, 11:24 PM
Some posters on here would be for that

Kegboy
01-20-2006, 11:31 PM
Some posters on here would be for that

Why should he settle for being president when he's already our Lord and Savior?

Jermaniac
01-20-2006, 11:34 PM
Of course, we need to trade Jack,Tins,JO and Foster so Sarunas can start at every position. The guy is nothing more then a back up PG and people on here treat him like he is Lebron.

SwissExpress
01-20-2006, 11:39 PM
Of course, we need to trade Jack,Tins,JO and Foster so Sarunas can start at every position. The guy is nothing more then a back up PG and people on here treat him like he is Lebron.

God, I'm tired of this....

Pacesetter
01-20-2006, 11:47 PM
God, I'm tired of this....

ignore works amazingly well.

Sarunas is terrific! :cool:

Mr.ThunderMakeR
01-20-2006, 11:57 PM
The guy is nothing more then a back up PG and people on here treat him like he is Lebron.

In case you haven't noticed, in the few games Tinsley has played this season, he hasnt really been a starting quality point guard anyways, so why not give Sarunas at least a chance to start? At least he has sort of earned it putting up with the bullcrap minutes RC is giving him.

Pacers#1Fan
01-21-2006, 12:04 AM
Tinsley would be gone before I would trade Sarunas. Jamaal has taken over Bender's role as the man of glass.

BlueNGold
01-21-2006, 12:12 AM
:confused:

Even when he is hurt Mel-Mel shows he is starter material.

He would be a freaking all star if he could stay healthy..........

No doubt. JT is more talented than Saras and is the better PG and will always be the better PG if he stays healthy. ....and to be honest, I am ticked because I wanted Saras to be good enough to replace Tins due to the health issues....so I am a disappointed Saras fan.

Now, Saras can be a good PG in the NBA, and he could easily start for an NBA team, but he is only an average or slightly above average NBA starting PG. I expected a little better with all the hype from across the pond.

Jaydawg2270
01-21-2006, 12:16 AM
Of course, we need to trade Jack,Tins,JO and Foster so Sarunas can start at every position. The guy is nothing more then a back up PG and people on here treat him like he is Lebron.

Preach

Mourning
01-21-2006, 05:22 AM
:confused:

Even when he is hurt Mel-Mel shows he is starter material.

He would be a freaking all star if he could stay healthy..........


Well, I guess that's really the problem, isn't it? He can not stay healthy nearly enough and thus can not be counted upon and thus we need 3 or 4 PGs in total to be able to fill in the spot when he gets hurt again.
I'm really fed up with this and I want him traded, maybe with AJ or some other(s) to get a good PG who is much more durable, so we don't have 4 PGs and we can actually have a reliable rotation there, something we SEVERELY lack rightnow and makes the team much more unstable to me (both in chemistry and the other players getting used to the several PGs on our team).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

AirLithuania
01-21-2006, 05:42 AM
How do you know that Saras is only an above the average starting pg, when you have seen him start at the pg only 2-3 times this season?

BlueNGold
01-21-2006, 09:11 AM
How do you know that Saras is only an above the average starting pg, when you have seen him start at the pg only 2-3 times this season?
Let me put it this way. I still think Saras has a chance to be a great one. He is an outstanding passer, shooter and more significantly leader. He also plays with great passion. We Pacer fans love those things about him. However, there are two things that are convincing me that he will not be at the top of the NBA PG list:

1) His ability to handle high intensity ball pressure. He has difficulty bringing the ball up the court and initiating the offense. The ball is too often stolen or he simply passes the ball out. This results in taking the ball out of his hands and rendering him a non-factor. AJ actually does this better than Saras, and this is one of AJ's weaknesses.

2) His defense is definitely below average for an NBA starting PG. I have seen many times where the Pacers have tried to compensate for his defense, but have been burned by an extra pass. Eddie Griffin was the recipient of several assists of this nature last night. Tinsley actually defends better than Saras, and this is Tinsley's greatest weakness.

Now, if he is able to shore up both of these things, he would be an all-star PG. The problem is, these will be very difficult for him to improve to the extent they need improved. Saras will be 30 soon and if anything his quickness will decrease, which is part of the issue with these factors. Therefore, I have serious doubts he will live up to my initial expectations. I hope I am wrong because I love many of the other things he brings to the floor.

CableKC
01-21-2006, 09:21 AM
Tinsley is 10 times the PG Sarunas will ever be. Shouldnt even think about trading him to open minutes up for a player like him. If we could get a good starting PG for Tinsley then trade him but dont even think about trading him to let Sarunas start.
Jerm....at this point...I agree that Tinsley is the better starting PG for the team then Sarunas is. However, how do you reconcile the fact that Tinsley...for all his PG greatness.....is perpetually injured and therefore useless to us when he is watching the game from the bench in his suit?

The problem that I ( and probably others ) have with Tinsley is that for a starting PG he isn't durable/healthy enough for long stretches of time to make the impact for the Pacers that he is capable of making. I would live with his negatives ( "attitude" problems, knuckleheadedness or that he has a tendency to sometimes play "one on one" basketball ) IF he was able to stay healthy.

Due to his track record for not staying healthy...it could be argued that its difficult for the team to build team chemistry...much less have a conistent lineup...if the player running the point...a critical position....is changing from week to week...if not day to day.

As some have noted...everyone gets injured...there's nothing you can do about preventing that. I would argue that you can ( to an extent ), either by limiting the # of minutes he plays so that his chances of getting injured are decreased or you accept the fact that he is "injury prone" and therefore live with an inconsistent PG rotation ( which isn't good ). I honestly don't know what to do with Tinsley other then to trade him during the offseason. If you can come up with a solution to remedy Tinsley situation....please let me know.

Anthem
01-21-2006, 10:08 AM
I honestly don't know what to do with Tinsley other then to trade him during the offseason. If you can come up with a solution to remedy Tinsley situation....please let me know.
Easy. You trade him sooner than the offseason.

CableKC
01-21-2006, 10:33 AM
Easy. You trade him sooner than the offseason.
I've asked this many times......but doesn't Tinsley's BYC condition in his contract make his market value lower then it really is?
Doesn't that mean that if we do trade him this season....that we would not get fair market value for him?

If so....I would think that it would be more prudent to trade Tinsley in the offseason when this BYC condition is no longer valid ( I'm assuming this is the case ) cuz I don't want to go through the whole Artest/Low Trade value situation with Tinsley.

DeS
01-21-2006, 10:50 AM
Maybe Jermaniac is right IF everything he says is true. Looks like Rick prefers him to suck at 2 than to play him a better game at PG. Maybe he put Saras in a starting 5 in order to have a better first quarter (to eliminate our problem). But it looks like he doesn't want Saras to play PG. BTW, I noticed that Rick is usually saying that other players like AJ, Tins does a little good thing when they actually play bad games, but he never mention Saras, no matter how good or bad he plays. It's not about the praising, I just thought, maybe he dislikes him?

McKeyFan
01-21-2006, 11:03 AM
No doubt. JT is more talented than Saras and is the better PG and will always be the better PG if he stays healthy. ....

Don't quite agree. Tinsley is better individually. But Tins creates a 1-man, or, at best, 2-man offense. Saras gets more people involved, and, in my opinion, that will, eventually, make for a better offense.

BlueNGold
01-21-2006, 11:36 AM
Maybe Jermaniac is right IF everything he says is true. Looks like Rick prefers him to suck at 2 than to play him a better game at PG. Maybe he put Saras in a starting 5 in order to have a better first quarter (to eliminate our problem). But it looks like he doesn't want Saras to play PG. BTW, I noticed that Rick is usually saying that other players like AJ, Tins does a little good thing when they actually play bad games, but he never mention Saras, no matter how good or bad he plays. It's not about the praising, I just thought, maybe he dislikes him?

I tend to think Tins will be traded and Saras will get more of a chance to lead the team. Saras was hand picked by Larry Bird and Larry tends to get what Larry wants.

I actually think Saras is getting most of his minutes at SG because Tins or AJ will soon be traded and they want Saras to keep in game shape and be challenged to improve his primary weakness (defense) against tough SG's....and they want AJ to get minutes to keep him marketable. After the trade when Saras moves to PG, the defensive assignments will be easier and will make Larry and Rick look brilliant. JMAO.

McKeyFan
01-21-2006, 12:14 PM
I tend to think Tins will be traded and Saras will get more of a chance to lead the team. Saras was hand picked by Larry Bird and Larry tends to get what Larry wants.

I actually think Saras is getting most of his minutes at SG because Tins or AJ will soon be traded and they want Saras to keep in game shape and be challenged to improve his primary weakness (defense) against tough SG's....and they want AJ to get minutes to keep him marketable. After the trade when Saras moves to PG, the defensive assignments will be easier and will make Larry and Rick look brilliant. JMAO.

Interesting theory. Pretty hard to believe.

Jermaniac
01-21-2006, 12:16 PM
We trade Tins so Sarunas can be our starting PG then we are in deep ****. Might as well say good night to winning.

denyfizle
01-21-2006, 12:22 PM
Jermaniac is right. I don't want to see that day when Runi will be forced to complain about Rick Carlisle's crap like Ron. Rick is a good coach at certain areas, but my little brother's middle school basketball coach can do a better job than him with the way he's handled Runi. There have been people that posted this before, that Rick should just be given an "exact" lineup in terms of talent because he tends to use the wrong people. Clearly last night we desperately needed offense and AJ wasn't giving it and JT was making errors after errors due to rust. RC didn't put Runi in til the last 30 seconds, and what do you know, we almost tied the game. It's not just Runi, Rick's subbing is ridiculous at times really. His offensive play calling suits a team more like Miami, not our Pacers because we can really run and gun. I hope there's a way we can relegate RC into an assistant coach and hire a Princeton offense type of coach or if not even a Saunders type would be fine.

Jerry_McGuire
01-21-2006, 12:44 PM
We trade Tins so Sarunas can be our starting PG then we are in deep ****. Might as well say good night to winning.

It's the other way round.

There are at least 4 key arguments for trading Tins:

1. Tins is unreliable in terms of health
2. Pacers already know what Tins can make, and though he's a good
PG that didnt lead to tremendous victories.
3. Pacers wont trade Saras after his first half-season, so remaining trading
options are Tins, AJ.
4. Trading AJ only, and leaving Tins with Saras wont solve the problem. It
seems Tins ego wont leave place for Tins+Saras combination. Another
thing - who would be 3rd PG in case Tins misses games again?


My solution - Ron+Tins trade for new PG and small forward or good SG

Saras could try 1 PG, new guy would be backup, AJ takes SG position. In
case of Saras or new guy PG illness - AJ could switch to PG temporarily.
New small forward could be substitute/backup for Jackson, though SG, F
positions are quite strong in Pacers.

grace
01-21-2006, 12:47 PM
ignore works amazingly well.

It doesn't work well enough. There needs to be a bull :censored: detector for people who aren't on the ignore list.

CableKC
01-21-2006, 01:21 PM
We trade Tins so Sarunas can be our starting PG then we are in deep ****. Might as well say good night to winning.
It sounds like you have no problem with the fact that Tinsley is perpetually injured and therefore have very little problem with AJ being our starting PG on a regular basis. I do not dispute Tinsley's PG skills and I know it sounds stupid to "throw the baby out with the bath water"......but I really feel that his constant injuries has been a major factor for why we have always underachieved. He's been able to tough it out through the last 2 playoffs...but he's always had to limp into the playoffs.

Is Sarunas truly a better PG then AJ ( much less Tinsley )? To tell you the truth....I don't really know cuz he's always being played behind AJ in the PG rotation and not used to his full potential simply cuz he is playing out of position. Coupled with Carlisle's love of AJ....this will mean that Sarunas will become an expensive 3rd backup PG but more importantly playing out of position as a backup SG on a regular basis. To me......this means that Carlisle isn't using the players that he has on the team to its maximum potential.

However....if Carlisle would simply play Sarunas ahead of AJ in the PG rotation and move AJ over to backup SG to simply allow him to score instead of distribute the ball......then I would have less of a problem with keeping Tinsley. If that's not the case.....then the 2006 season is a chance to restart, rebuiild, retool. At this point....I would much rather see what we can do with having a different starting PG that isn't always injured.

Just like I am sick of having hotheads/knuckleheads/crazy players on the team.....having a starter that is always injured is a variable that I want to eliminate. The less variables that can derail a season that we have on the team is only going to help us out in the long run.

Anthem
01-21-2006, 03:42 PM
1. Tins is unreliable in terms of health
2. Pacers already know what Tins can make, and though he's a good
PG that didnt lead to tremendous victories.
3. Pacers wont trade Saras after his first half-season, so remaining trading
options are Tins, AJ.
4. Trading AJ only, and leaving Tins with Saras wont solve the problem. It
seems Tins ego wont leave place for Tins+Saras combination. Another
thing - who would be 3rd PG in case Tins misses games again?
The first is the only legitimate one.

A healthy Tinsley would lead us to more victories than a healthy Saras, no question. Unfortunately, we don't have a healthy Tinsley.