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Anthem
04-02-2004, 12:04 PM
I think we all agree that the playoff roster will include everyone except Brewer, J.Jones, and Primoz.

Anybody disagree?

The reason I ask is that I'm kind of worried about a second-round matchup with the Bucks. Would be nice to have a defensive ace in the hole.

diego
04-02-2004, 12:08 PM
Personally i would rather see Brewer than AJ. I think he coould be that defensive PG for if we met BAron Davis in second round. Although i guess Freddie could take that role if need be.

Ragnar
04-02-2004, 12:14 PM
Personally i would rather see Brewer than AJ. I think he coould be that defensive PG for if we met BAron Davis in second round. Although i guess Freddie could take that role if need be.

What he said except I think Brewer is a better defender than Jones.

MSA2CF
04-02-2004, 12:20 PM
I agree with Anthem about the way the playoff roster should be.

Ragnar, Jones is somewhat of a defensive "specialist" on this team--he certainly doesn't come in for his offensive prowess (although lately that could be the reason). Jones is bigger and I think he could guard more players better than Brewer.

I think you guys who don't think Anthony is good will be surprised in the playoffs. Remember, this is a guy who has been to 2 straight NBA Finals.

tseramid
04-02-2004, 12:48 PM
There is no way we leave AJ off of the playoff roster. If we were to do that, Brewer would have been activated long before now to get him consistant playing time.

Barring injuries, it's definitely J. Jones, Brezec and Brewer on the IR.

It's going to be fun, guys!

PaceBalls
04-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Do you really think J. Brewer is a better defender than Jones??

when Jones is the best perimeter defender the pacers have besides Ron..


I don't buy that one. I won't call ya a homer, but it's borderline! :p

Brewer might be quicker and all that, but obviously he isn't as smart defensively as the other 3 pgs, or he wouldnt be riding the pine in street clothes the whole season... not to mention the fact they brought in TWO other PGs this season.

I have too much respect for Rick to think he would let his best defender sit on the bench the whole season.. I think there must be a reason. Rick said from the get-go that everyone has a chance to play and even be a starter. Obviously brewer hasn't earned that in Ricks view.

but ya, jj brewer primoz are probably the 3 odd men out.

Ragnar
04-02-2004, 12:51 PM
Ragnar, Jones is somewhat of a defensive "specialist" on this team--he certainly doesn't come in for his offensive prowess (although lately that could be the reason). Jones is bigger and I think he could guard more players better than Brewer.

Brewer 6'4"

Jones 6'2"

Brewer is the better defender but Rick does not like the way he runs and by runs I mean at a full tilt running runs the offense. I would agree that both Tinsley and Kenny are better pg's at this point. But Brewer is a very good defender.

Add the fact that he has been working on his game with Artest and I would sort of like to see what he could do. He would be better than AJ IMO.

I think you guys who don't think Anthony is good will be surprised in the playoffs. Remember, this is a guy who has been to 2 straight NBA Finals.

I take it you didnt watch the Finals last year? I will recap for you.

Game 1 played 4 minutes no points no assists and the Spurs went on a run so fast they had to put Kidd back in.

Game 2 made it 6 minutes this time still no points one assist again the Spurs went on a run and he was yanked. (sounding familiar other than the yanked part)

Game 3 again 6 whole minutes this time he scored 4 points no assists and again a run by the Spurs.

Game 4 manages 4 whole minutes scored 3 points no assists

Game 5 DNP

Game 6 (his best game) 8 minutes 4 points 1 steal and 2 turnovers. :unimpressed:

There is a reason why the Nets let him go.

ChicagoJ
04-02-2004, 01:08 PM
I'd rather have Primoz that Pollard, but I know I'm in the minority on that one...

Unclebuck
04-02-2004, 01:14 PM
I am dismayed and amazed at what low regard you have for AJ.

By any measure he has had a very good year, much better than anyone could have predicted last July.

AJ has been the deciding factor in many games this season.

able
04-02-2004, 01:26 PM
Sorry UB, AJ is a nice guy and a good player on another team. but his best position on our team is on the bench, he has a very grave tendency to lose leads quickly and despite all our tries we have been unable to point to anything else but AJ as the reason for that.

I would (and I have said that from the early part of the season) appreciate it much more if he came in as SG instead of PG. that way he can share minutes with Fred. (once he starts defending)
AJ AND Al on the floor is two not so brilliant defenders ont he floor, asking for trouble.

But let's take the full roster by the horns and predict what's gonna happen:

Starting 5 (add 5 minutes @ min to their normalplaying time):
Jamaal Tinsley
Reggie Miller
Ron Artest
Jermain O'Neal
Jeff Foster

Bench:

Al Harrington (less minutes)
Kenny Anderson (first sub for Tins)
Jonathan Bender
Fred Jones

Only on occasion (when situation requires it):

Austin Croshere
Anthony Johnson
Scot Pollard

Ragnar
04-02-2004, 01:29 PM
I am dismayed and amazed at what low regard you have for AJ.

By any measure he has had a very good year, much better than anyone could have predicted last July.

AJ has been the deciding factor in many games this season.

Unfortunatly he has also help us lose games. Probably as many as he has helped win. He had a career game in Denver and certainly had a lot to do with that win. But he has stunk ever since then.

We have Kenny Anderson on the roster who is far and away better than AJ. He has risen to the occasion in the playoffs somehting AJ has never done. He can run the team far far better and he is not that much worse of a defender. AJ is the better defender of the two but with Fred in the game it helps that a lot.

I just cant stand a pg who cant run the offense. And even you have to admit that AJ cant run it anywhere near as well as Kenny. Its why I hated Travis and Strickland. They are backup shooting guards who are running the point(running it into the ground that is).

It goes against everything good and right in basketball. I would be perfectly ok with Johnson as a backup sg. He kind of reminds me of whats his name we had here a few years ago (not Byron the other guy went to Houston after he was here really really old)

MagicRat
04-02-2004, 03:17 PM
I just cant stand a pg who cant run the offense.

:confused:

Then by definition you can't stand Brewer, either....... :P

tseramid
04-02-2004, 03:27 PM
He kind of reminds me of whats his name we had here a few years ago (not Byron the other guy went to Houston after he was here really really old)

You are thinking of Eddie Johnson, who also happened to wear the jersey number 8.

ChicagoJ
04-02-2004, 03:45 PM
He kind of reminds me of whats his name we had here a few years ago (not Byron the other guy went to Houston after he was here really really old)

You are thinking of Eddie Johnson, who also happened to wear the jersey number 8.


Yeah, but I think he's actually referring to Ricky Pierce (although Ricky went to Denver.)

Eddie Johnson was about as true of a SF as you'll ever see. Pierce was a combo guard like AJ.

Ragnar
04-02-2004, 03:47 PM
I just cant stand a pg who cant run the offense.

:confused:

Then by definition you can't stand Brewer, either....... :P

The talent is there I can see it. He is by no means ready to be a starter, nor do I think he is better than Kenny. However the talent is there. When he played earlier in the year the team was used to this slow horrible pace. (you know the pace that was so slow it almost pushed Ron over the edge) He was all over the place driving the lane and creating offense for the guys and they were a step or three slower than he was. He saw things they didnt see. I think now that they are used to Tinsley Brewer would do a little better.

Mark my words Brewer will make it as a pg in this league. His learning curve is a little higher but he will get there.

A little off topic this is a question for UB.

Ron is your favorite player this is a given. Ron can not stand the style of play we were playing earlier in the year prompting his little shot selection outburst in the NJ game. Ron clearly wants Tinsley and Brewer to be the point guards. (I know you read the article in the star where Ron said if they want D to activate Brewer) Dont you think Ron knows what he is talking about?

Now how do you deal with that considering you would rather have AJ as the backup? Ron would go nuts with too much more of AJ yet you seem to like him.

Also considering you like defense probably more than offense how can you like AJ considering he is not actually that good of a defender? He was ok early in the year but he has been terrible for a while now.

Ragnar
04-02-2004, 03:49 PM
He kind of reminds me of whats his name we had here a few years ago (not Byron the other guy went to Houston after he was here really really old)

You are thinking of Eddie Johnson, who also happened to wear the jersey number 8.


Yeah, but I think he's actually referring to Ricky Pierce (although Ricky went to Denver.)

Eddie Johnson was about as true of a SF as you'll ever see. Pierce was a combo guard like AJ.

tseramid was right I was thinking of Eddie Johnson. He was slow and not a very good defender but he could hit important shots from time to time. He was not a pg thats for sure but neither is AJ IMO.

wintermute
04-02-2004, 11:49 PM
I'd rather have Primoz that Pollard, but I know I'm in the minority on that one...

i'm with you there :cheers:

in fact, i think why primoz is getting some minutes now is because the coaching staff is auditioning him for the playoffs.

i mean, what has pollard done that brezec can't do? he can give up the same 6 fouls :unimpressed:

beast23
04-03-2004, 02:43 AM
But let's take the full roster by the horns and predict what's gonna happen:.....
I think you are correct that the starters will be seeing more minutes.

But as for the subs, I think your methodology ignores the strengths of the players on the bench. Obviosly, Al will be the first front court player off the bench.

But as for a selection of AJ or Kenny, I think it depends on the game situation. If we require a penetrator, then certainly Kenny will get the nod. If we need another perimeter shooter in the game to help stretch the defense, then Carlisle will go to AJ, not Kenny.

The thing about our roster is that we have great versatility and strengths. That makes it difficult in choosing the last couple of players for the playoff roster.

Freddie Jones plays very good perimeter defense in the half-court. Brewer is capable of hounding the opponents point guard from the time that the ball is inbounded. Remember the Bulls-Pacers / Pippen-Jackson matchups. Sometimes it's very important to have a defensive PG capable of consuming time off the opponent's shot clock. Brewer could do that for us in the carefully selected situations.

But you wouldn't leave Freddie off the roster to pick up Brewer because in addition to being a defensive specialist, Freddie has also displayed a decent ability at slashing to the basket.

So do you leave off Pollard or Bender to pick up Brewer since we might need Brewer against Baron Davis or a Gary Payton. Remember, it's important to have those big bodies like Pollard, who actually defends Shaq no worse than anyone else in our front court. And Bender.... as much as a dislike the player, he has provided instant offense over 5 minute stretches.

IMO, we don't risk having just Freddie to try to guard the opposing quick guards in the playoffs. I'd want Brewer as an insurance policy. And if the Pacers decided they would not want to leave Pollard or Bender off the roster, then I'd leave Kenny off the roster if I had to.

I figure Kenny is not a perimeter shooter. AJ is. AJ is not the penetrator that Kenny is, but Freddy is. Kenny is not the defender that AJ is, but AJ is not the defender that Brewer is.

I comes down to the fact that Kenny's ability to drive is already on the roster in Freddy, but AJs ability to hit the perimeter shot presents a skill that is not prevalent in enough players on our roster.

Sorry, I'd take AJ over Kenny for the playoffs. But because I think we possibly might need Brewer's defense, I'd take Brewer over Kenny as well. So in my book, Kenny would not only not be the first PG off the bench, he would not be on the roster.

But....... this is NOT what I expect the Pacers to do. Kenny is probably on, Brewer is off.

Ragnar
04-03-2004, 10:45 AM
eddie johnson and ricky pierce were both big time players (shooters/Scorers anyways) who were at the end of their career - AJ wasnt close to the player eddie johnson was.

I certainly agree with that. I am just saying he reminds me of him because he is old and slow.

Beast leaving Kenny off would be a huge mistake. I would even keep him over Brewer. Of course you all know I would rather see Brewer than AJ and it is not going to happen. Pollard is a total waste of a roster spot and should be left off.

Bender is just going to get injured so he might as well be left off. If I had any hopes he could play an entire series let alone the playoffs I would say leave him on. But we all know he wont be able to, he will get injured before one seven game series is over. I think he will sit out the first round and get injured in the second round.

The problem with AJ is that he cant run the offense and he is not a very good defender. The plus side with him is that he could play sort of a Paxson/Kerr role for the team and IMO it is what he should have been all year. Spot shooter come in and camp at the 3 point line. He can hit them when open and thats about all he is good for. Teams have done very well with this type of player and if he is used this way I might actually start to like the guy.