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View Full Version : Still think Rose hated Carlisle?



Hicks
04-02-2004, 09:43 AM
Rose, who is averaging 15.9 points in 42 games with Toronto, remains connected to Pacers coach Rick Carlisle, who coached Rose for three seasons as Larry Bird's assistant. When Detroit president Joe Dumars called for a recommendation two days before hiring Carlisle to coach the Pistons, Rose encouraged him to do it. This season, when Raptors coach Kevin O'Neill called Carlisle before trading for Rose, Carlisle encouraged him to do it.

"I told him he's a bona fide scorer at the two and three spots and could play some point if you needed that," Carlisle said. "And that he's a good guy -- a guy who's a team guy who wants to win."

http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/134421-3569-039.html

MSA2CF
04-02-2004, 10:05 AM
This may improve my liking of Rick, but there is nothing in the world that Jalen can say that will change my feelings about him.

NewYawk
04-02-2004, 11:13 AM
The comments stating the Rose hated Carlisle, and that he won't have re-signed here if Rick replaced Larry were always stupid.

That said, it has all worked out for the best.... for both sides. Toronto's a good place for Jalen. They will retool and rebuild that team soon.

Anthem
04-02-2004, 11:59 AM
The comments stating the Rose hated Carlisle, and that he won't have re-signed here if Rick replaced Larry were always stupid.

The comments BY JALEN ROSE stating that he wouldn't have re-signed here...

Nobody said hate. But he'd already been playing for the guy for three years. And Carlisle had A LOT less in the way of people skills back then.

NewYawk
04-02-2004, 12:17 PM
The comments stating the Rose hated Carlisle, and that he won't have re-signed here if Rick replaced Larry were always stupid.

The comments BY JALEN ROSE stating that he wouldn't have re-signed here...

Nobody said hate. But he'd already been playing for the guy for three years. And Carlisle had A LOT less in the way of people skills back then.

I still don't buy it. Rose was going to go where the money and opportunity were. Indy offered him the most. I just never put that much stock in the "Jalen wouldn't have re-signed here with Rick as the HC" point of view.

Do you have a link to his comments from back then? I'm not suggesting they don't exist (I remember them) but I'd like to see what exactly he said, and in what context.

ChicagoJ
04-02-2004, 01:37 PM
The comments stating the Rose hated Carlisle, and that he won't have re-signed here if Rick replaced Larry were always stupid.

The comments BY JALEN ROSE stating that he wouldn't have re-signed here...

Nobody said hate. But he'd already been playing for the guy for three years. And Carlisle had A LOT less in the way of people skills back then.

I still don't buy it. Rose was going to go where the money and opportunity were. Indy offered him the most. I just never put that much stock in the "Jalen wouldn't have re-signed here with Rick as the HC" point of view.

Do you have a link to his comments from back then? I'm not suggesting they don't exist (I remember them) but I'd like to see what exactly he said, and in what context.

Here's the article I always point to:

Jalen Rose recently signed a seven-year deal worth $93 million to stay with the Indiana Pacers.

Rose was voted the league's most improved player last season after he moved into the starting lineup at small forward and was the team's leading scorer, averaging 18.2 points a game.

"My head and heart the entire time was to be an Indiana Pacer," said Rose, who didn't even consider an offer from another team. "I said from the beginning that I was going to continue to remain an Indiana Pacer and try to do what I could to help this team and city win a championship."

Rose averaged 20.8 points during the NBA playoffs, with a career-high 40 against Philadelphia.


http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1355/11_98/64698121/p1/article.jhtml

IIRC, Jalen agreed to terms before the Pacers had a coach, although it was safe to assume that if it were going to be Rick he would have already been promoted. Regardless, Jalen didn't even consider signing anywhere else, so the coaching was not an issue. Donnie said, "Max" and Jalen said, "Where do I sign?" He could have recieved the max from several teams (remember, Houston and Chicago also offered Croshere huge contracts that the Pacers ultimately matched that summer), league economics were different then.

The speculation was always that Jalen wanted Isiah to be his coach, but that relationship really soured, didn't it? In hindsight, I think the stories of Jalen's dislike of Carlisle were greatly exaggerated. Jalen has never publicly said anything bad about either of them, BTW, even though he was clearly hurt by the falling out with his boyhood idol. And it is interesting to note that most of his public comments in support of Carlisle were made after he was traded to Chicago.

I've been a big fan of Jalen's since he came to the Pacers. I know I'm seriously in the minority on this topic around here so I usually just keep it to myself. But he really gets a bum's rap around here and that isn't right. The man continues to do many charitable things for the City, he handles himself with class, and he was the best player on the team that went to The Finals in 2000. :P No, I don't know why he chose to stop playing defense after Isiah arrived?

PaceBalls
04-02-2004, 01:48 PM
How could any pacer fan hate Jalen? He played great for the club and was one of the big reasons they went to the finals.

Not only that, they traded him for Ron and Brad and that mercer guy... Probably the greatest trade ever in Pacer history..
It seems to me they owe quite a bit of their success to Jalen

Of course now Ron is better than Jalen. But 4 years ago... not the case.

Doug
04-02-2004, 02:11 PM
The man continues to do many charitable things for the City, he handles himself with class, and he was the best player on the team that went to The Finals in 2000. :P No, I don't know why he chose to stop playing defense after Isiah arrived?

I always liked Jalen the man. Quality person, the kind you are proud to have represent you.

But I never quite warmed up to Jalen the player. Not sure why. Probably 'cause I tend to like underdogs and overachievers and hustle players. See Haywoode Workman for the prime example.

Unclebuck
04-02-2004, 02:54 PM
I am with Doug on this.

Jalen is just not my type of player. He is very streaky offensively, and often not their when you need him, and don't get be started on his defense :(

it was time for jalen to go, the team had changed around him, without AD, DD and Smits around to protect Jalen, his weaknesses really starting hurting the team, that is why Al was finshing a lot of games before AL got hurt.

NewYawk
04-02-2004, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the post Jay. The Jalen Rose debates in the Star Forum were always very, very heated. I think Jalen is a quality individual who was always willing to do what worked for the team. Defensively, he sucked but he was capable of dropping 40 any given night, and his ball handling and passing were excellent. With all our "issues" with outside shooting, imagine him coming off the bench on this team (making significantly less money, of course).

ChicagoJ
04-02-2004, 03:37 PM
I'm not saying it wasn't time for him to go, I just don't "get" all the venom directed his way. IMO, he deserves better.

He was/ is a first-class talent in the league. He must be surrounded by the right type of players, and with the changes that happened between 2000 and 2002, he was no longer the right guy for this team. And since then, he hasn't been surrounded by the right players - since he's not physical he needs to be paired with other players that are. If you put him on the Pistons instead of Rip Hamilton, for example, or on the Nets instead of Jefferson - those would be examples of a perfect situation for Jalen.

By the time he moved into the starting lineup for the Pacers, I didn't think of him as streaky. His jumper may have been erratic, but he could contribute offensively in so many different ways that it was almost criminal. Heck, I liked him less when the jumper was falling because then he'd rely on it - I wanted him to attack the basket. And when he put his mind to it (1998/1999), he was an above average defender, too. Of course, when your other choices are Mullin and Reggie, I suppose anybody else looks like a great defender :D

Doug
04-02-2004, 04:30 PM
I always liked to say that we traded Jalen because he *was* valuable, not because he *wasn't*. If you look at that roster, there was nobody else who we could trade. They were either old, overpaid, young, or BYC.

Same with Al, now...

Tim
04-02-2004, 05:58 PM
I always liked to say that we traded Jalen because he *was* valuable, not because he *wasn't*. If you look at that roster, there was nobody else who we could trade. They were either old, overpaid, young, or BYC.

Same with Al, now...

Do Not Trade Al.

Bball
04-02-2004, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the post Jay. The Jalen Rose debates in the Star Forum were always very, very heated. I think Jalen is a quality individual who was always willing to do what worked for the team. Defensively, he sucked but he was capable of dropping 40 any given night, and his ball handling and passing were excellent. With all our "issues" with outside shooting, imagine him coming off the bench on this team (making significantly less money, of course).

I have to diagree with a point here. I don't think Jalen's defense sucked. He COULD play defense... he just (more times than not) chose not to. THAT was the problem.

And that was a problem that bloomed under Isiah. I don't know why that would be Isiah's fault, and it might have more to do with Jalen's already having the big contract which coincided with Isiah's arrival.

-Bball

beast23
04-03-2004, 02:18 AM
I don't think Jalen's defense sucked. He COULD play defense... he just (more times than not) chose not to. THAT was the problem.

And that was a problem that bloomed under Isiah. I don't know why that would be Isiah's fault, and it might have more to do with Jalen's already having the big contract which coincided with Isiah's arrival.

-BballVery true.

Whenever he CHOSE, to turn it on, Jalen could play not just good, but oftentimes exceptional defense. I detested him as a Pacer because he totally wasted that 50% of his talent 90% of the time.

Many times, he would rather spend his time complaining to a referee about a call he didn't get on the offensive end rather than getting his butt back on defense.

Offensively, he was a very talented player, but he could drive Isiah nuts by going off on tangents and pursuing his own agenda.

I definitely hold Isiah partially responsible for the development of Jalen's bad habits. As a coach in charge of playing time, I.T. was in a position to cure the situation, but chose not to. IMO, the fact that Isiah is far too tolerant and did not properly discipline his players is exactly the reason why he is a major reason why he is not coaching today.

Anthem
04-03-2004, 04:34 AM
Yeah, I was wrong. My apologies. It was Croshere, not Rose, that didn't want to play for Carlisle.

PaceBalls
04-03-2004, 10:32 AM
Yeah, I was wrong. My apologies. It was Croshere, not Rose, that didn't want to play for Carlisle.

do tell, I never heard about that one.