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View Full Version : Does Anyone Feel this is Carlisle's Last Season?



Bball
01-18-2006, 04:37 PM
Bird has made a couple of comments that made me go "Hmmmmmm". One was just prior to Artest going Artest when he said something like "Ronnie feels he should be able to make a mistake or two on offense without worrying about the bench and I think he's right".

The other was when he talked about wanting to see the Pacers play more of a Euro style game.

He even went out and got a Euro style player (Sarunas). It should be pretty clear by now that Carlisle isn't going to play a Euro style game as long as JO is on the team (and I would assume that would be true of any 'franchise' player we'd put on the team). A tiger goes tiger... Artest goes Artest.... Carlisle coaches Carlisle...

And we know Bird has commented about his 3 year rule. At one point many of us thought that would come back to haunt him with his pal Carlisle coaching the team and doing so well, but then at one point we were talking championship and now we're arguing over rebuilding.

Answer this however you feel but I'd like to at least hear these points addressed:
Yes, he'll be back but shouldn't.
No, he won't be back but should.
Yes, he'll be back and we should be glad about that.
No, he won't be back and that is a good thing.

Is there another camp that needs addressed? Does anyone feel he should get next season on a short leash with either the season (or only a portion) to do something differently? Isn't Carlisle on a 4 yr contract so don't we need to be making a decision in the next few months or are you fine with a 'lame duck' contract?

I've been curious about this ever since I read Bird's comments.

-Bball

CableKC
01-18-2006, 04:41 PM
I'm in the "No, he won't be back but should."

I thought about this before and I seriously think that this is Carlisle's last season with the Pacers. His tenure with the Pacers have been one drama after another.

I wouldn't be surprised if Carlisle has a conversation with Bird and tells him that he wants to step down to spend time with is family...blah blah blah. But the main reason will be because the job has been extremely stressful over the last 2 seasons and that it has taken a toll on him due to the continuing drama that started after the ECF that Artest ruined.

Also...I think that Bird will look at the 2006-2007 season as a chance to rebuild the entire team around whatever we get for Artest....not only on the roster level....but on the coaching level.

blanket
01-18-2006, 04:49 PM
I know this isn't a poll, but I'll go with

3) Yes, he'll be back and we should be glad about that.

There aren't that many quality coaches out there, and Carlisle has shown that he can motivate players, adapt to advertisty, and work the Xs and Os better than most.

Besides, there won't be anyone better available this summer.

I'd sooner turn over the whole roster than dump Carlisle.

PacerNthaDesert
01-18-2006, 05:08 PM
He's gone. What's he done here in his time? His big accomplishment is getting us to the ECF where we lost to Detroit in 6 games, and we had HOME COURT advantage. Granted, he has put up with a lot of crap in his time but this is a business and the Pacers are going in the wrong direction I believe. He might get 1 more year since him and Bird are buddies but its iffy. Rick's a good coach, but its time for a new beginning. (More uptempo too.)

efx
01-18-2006, 05:11 PM
Very little of what has transpired to the pacers these last two seasons has anything to do with Carlisle. Maybe he isn't the 100% right coach for this team but as the above poster stated, who would be better in terms of available coaches?

Lithfan
01-18-2006, 05:13 PM
Bird has made a couple of comments that made me go "Hmmmmmm". One was just prior to Artest going Artest when he said something like "Ronnie feels he should be able to make a mistake or two on offense without worrying about the bench and I think he's right".

The other was when he talked about wanting to see the Pacers play more of a Euro style game.

He even went out and got a Euro style player (Sarunas). It should be pretty clear by now that Carlisle isn't going to play a Euro style game as long as JO is on the team (and I would assume that would be true of any 'franchise' player we'd put on the team). A tiger goes tiger... Artest goes Artest.... Carlisle coaches Carlisle...

And we know Bird has commented about his 3 year rule. At one point many of us thought that would come back to haunt him with his pal Carlisle coaching the team and doing so well, but then at one point we were talking championship and now we're arguing over rebuilding.

Answer this however you feel but I'd like to at least hear these points addressed:
Yes, he'll be back but shouldn't.
No, he won't be back but should.
Yes, he'll be back and we should be glad about that.
No, he won't be back and that is a good thing.

Is there another camp that needs addressed? Does anyone feel he should get next season on a short leash with either the season (or only a portion) to do something differently? Isn't Carlisle on a 4 yr contract so don't we need to be making a decision in the next few months or are you fine with a 'lame duck' contract?

I've been curious about this ever since I read Bird's comments.

-Bball

I hope so much this true.
I choose:
No, he won't be back and that is a good thing.
Because:
1. He doesn't let the game flow and cutting momentum by exchanging players at most inappropriate time.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
2. He is stuck with old-fashioned quadratic basketball.
3. He plays AJ (?!?!?! WTF) instead Saras.

SoupIsGood
01-18-2006, 05:14 PM
He's developing the youngins now, what more can we ask of him? I'll live with the odd rotations at times.

Eindar
01-18-2006, 05:20 PM
I think if someone is available who is either: a) an outright upgrade or b) a lateral move but better suits our style, we could see Carlisle gone this year. It would be stupid to fire him and bring in some assistant or college guy. Regardless of what's happened on his watch or how you hate his style, he's a winning coach, a top 10 coach, and I don't think you mess with that unless something forces your hand or you feel you can upgrade.

Who's out there right now? Stan Van Gundy? I think that's about it. There certainly aren't any quality uptemp style coaches out there. That being said, Rick Adelman might be available after this season. Maybe we could just trade coaches, Adelman comes here to make us into a soft euro team, Carlisle goes there to make sure those guys are putting forth maximum effort. We can swap Artest and Peja while we're at it :)

indygeezer
01-18-2006, 05:22 PM
Rick has not had the benefit of having a whole and healthy team in two years. HE gets the bennie for another run. So if we're voting...I go #3.


I do have questions tho, as with anybody under scrutiny.

ChicagoJ
01-18-2006, 05:27 PM
Consensus at the forum party was that this was his last season, and generally everybody was okay with that.

That was, however, before we caught a glimpse of the Granger/ JO/ Harrison starting front court. Which many (but clearly not all) of us that night wanted to see.

Jermaniac
01-18-2006, 05:31 PM
I give him one more year after this one, I dont even count last year a season for our team. That year just wasnt fair for Rick. But if dont do nothing next year its time for Rick to go.

Evan_The_Dude
01-18-2006, 05:31 PM
At times I question Carlisle, but at the same time I don't know who else would be a better fit. Will he be back? Honestly I hope so. Do I think he will? I'm not so sure. I too think he's going to use the "Time off for family" excuse or something similar to get out of the job. Then I think LB might convince him to give it one more season.

If this happens, I'd expect some major - yet not so major roster turn around to gear us up for a real championship run. Nevertheless, I truely expect this offseason to be the most interesting one we've had in a long time.

CableKC
01-18-2006, 05:31 PM
Very little of what has transpired to the pacers these last two seasons has anything to do with Carlisle. Maybe he isn't the 100% right coach for this team but as the above poster stated, who would be better in terms of available coaches?

Believe me...I don't want him gone.....I just think that the last 2 seasons has taken a toll on Carlisle. He's the guy that is asked to coach a team that has gone through more turmoil then any team has gone through before. Many teams and coaches have gone through injury plagued years.....have gone on playoff droughts for years.....but none have gone through the turmoil and sheer drama that the Pacers have through as a result of the Ron Artest Show ( maybe with the exception of the PJ Carlisimo / Sprewell Warriors situation...but that's only 1/2 of what the Pacers have gone through ). I'm guessing that coaching the Pacers with Artest and all the drama that resulted is very stressful to anyone.

I have no idea who can replace him if he does go......Eric Musselmen comes to mind ( as I have suggested before ) that provides some focus on the defensive end and did a good job of turning the Warrior's season around before Montgomery came on board.

Evan_The_Dude
01-18-2006, 05:44 PM
I have no idea who can replace him if he does go......Eric Musselmen comes to mind ( as I have suggested before ) that provides some focus on the defensive end and did a good job of turning the Warrior's season around before Montgomery came on board.

This is a name - the only name that comes to mind for me. Partially because I don't know much about the available coaches. But when Musselman coached the Warriors, I actually enjoyed watching him on the sidelines. That's one intense dude. He's probably just as demanding as Carlisle on the defensive side, and I think he's a little smarter offensively. The only things I question is if he's the right guy to coach a regular team into a championship caliber team, and his ability to develop the younger players. I'd be all for him coaching the Pacers - if Carlisle won't.

CableKC
01-18-2006, 05:48 PM
This is a name - the only name that comes to mind for me. Partially because I don't know much about the available coaches. But when Musselman coached the Warriors, I actually enjoyed watching him on the sidelines. That's one intense dude. He's probably just as demanding as Carlisle on the defensive side, and I think he's a little smarter offensively. The only thing I question is if he's the right guy to coach a regular team into a championship caliber team. I'd be all for him coaching the Pacers - if Carlisle won't.
I would hope so......cuz I like what he did with the Warriors....especially since I want a more defensively focused team. But I wonder if he butted heads with Mullins and/or the GM before Mullins was the GM. You have to wonder about a coach that runs around a crappy team in 1 season to become respectable then can't find a head coaching job when there is a mass exodus of coaches in the last 2 seasons.

Also...another person that comes to mind.....Mark Jackson. I have no idea about whether he can coach or not...but I seem to recall his name popping up a year or two ago.

GetOdom
01-18-2006, 05:53 PM
I certainly hope so.

NorCal_Pacerfan
01-18-2006, 05:54 PM
One more year or ol' Carlisle. He's earned it.

slyder
01-18-2006, 05:56 PM
only if it's his own choice. no way wil DW and LB
move him on after what he has endured here. my vote is he'll be back.

whether or not he should be back depends on
personnel moves. the whole roster is up for grabs
now pending some sort of discernible direction and
i'm not really sure what that the management even
knows what direction this team is headed.

he may very well realize that a move is in his and
the team's best interests -- i think we do need a
fresh start, starting w/ one or two bryon scott type vets to provide stability.

the sad part is, we know how long it took to
get the team turned around in the LB days, and
i'm just not sure we can turn this around without
2-3 more seasons of heavy dues-paying. i just don't
see much room for optimism, i see the pacers as a
lower-level playoff team for the foreseeable future,
and that is a real shame.

Bball
01-18-2006, 06:03 PM
the sad part is, we know how long it took to
get the team turned around in the LB days, and
i'm just not sure we can turn this around without
2-3 more seasons of heavy dues-paying.


Larry Brown had the team in the ECF's his first year... altho it took until the second half of the season before the change in play really started paying dividends in the W/L records.

Larry Bird had the team click along even sooner.

Not sure what you mean by "the sad part is, we know how long it took to
get the team turned around in the LB days," ??? :confused:

-Bball

MaHa3000
01-18-2006, 06:27 PM
No, he won't be back but should. (and) No, he won't be back and that is a good thing.

Rick Carlise is a great coach . He was fired in D-town because the Pistons wanted to go in a defferent direction. Rick will probaly find himself in the same position here in Indy. I thought the pistons were fools for letting him go . (I was proven wrong). I felt bad for Rick and was glad that he replaced Thomas. Rick's record is proven and I think that he is one of the top coaches in the league. He isn't the type of coach that should be getting fired.

On the other hand, are the Pacers going to trade most of there team for players that will benefit from playing Rick's style? It doesn't look like it. I'm covinced that this is the reason for our recent chemistry problem. These guys don't seem to be too enthused about playing for Rick.

I think if Bird wants more of a euro style of play, then he is going to have to fire his longtime friend and get it done. Now is the time. Well, not right now but he can trade for some euro type players and fire Rick in the off-season.

Bball
01-18-2006, 06:46 PM
Historically, the Pacers have been about letting the coach be the fall guy. I don't know what that means now. Are we over-achieving or underachieving right now?

-Bball

pacerwaala
01-18-2006, 06:47 PM
I am going to go with -

Yes, he'll be back and we should be glad about that.

I might be extreme on this but I would not mind Carlisle having a Jerry Sloan like career here. He never is about himself and never mouths off no matter how tempting it is. Himself and his teams work hard and bring it every night. I am just amazed at how spoilt people have become being fans of this team. With the amount of things and injuries that he has put up with in his tenure, he has done a damn fine job, Thank you. I would turn this roster upside down before I even think about tocuhing Carlisle. He has a game plan every night and his players, despite being short handed, give the opponent a game every night.

Everybody, close their eyes and just think of last season, the brawl, injuries, the depleted and different lineups every night - We made the playoffs and gave Detroit a run for their money in the second round. What else do you want?

MaHa3000
01-18-2006, 07:03 PM
I am going to go with -

Yes, he'll be back and we should be glad about that.

I might be extreme on this but I would not mind Carlisle having a Jerry Sloan like career here. He never is about himself and never mouths off no matter how tempting it is. Himself and his teams work hard and bring it every night. I am just amazed at how spoilt people have become being fans of this team. With the amount of things and injuries that he has put up with in his tenure, he has done a damn fine job, Thank you. I would turn this roster upside down before I even think about tocuhing Carlisle. He has a game plan every night and his players, despite being short handed, give the opponent a game every night.

Everybody, close their eyes and just think of last season, the brawl, injuries, the depleted and different lineups every night - We made the playoffs and gave Detroit a run for their money in the second round. What else do you want?
I would agree with you , but I highly doubt that will happen.
Heck, I wish Larry Bird was still our coach. thats never going to happen again .... Or is it????? Yea right.

Young
01-18-2006, 07:19 PM
Rick will coach through his contract, I believe one more season left after this one and i'm guessing we will get someone new after him.

Lets face it, there is no one better than Rick that is likely to be avaliable this summer so why not keep Rick? He is a great coach.

Jon Theodore
01-18-2006, 07:29 PM
i'd say he deserves another year.

Kegboy
01-18-2006, 08:59 PM
Once again, I question who we'd possibly get. Jeff Bzdelik is a good coach whose philosophy would fit with what Larry's talked about, but he's very happy at the Air Force Academy. Michael Cooper (who I'd give a kidney to see as Pacers coach) ran a motion offense in LA that would be perfect, absolutely perfect, for our personnel, but Larry will never ever ever ever hire the guy.

So, if you really want Rick gone, you have to ask yourself, would you be happier with Dennis Johnson? :hmm:

SoupIsGood
01-18-2006, 09:02 PM
Keg, why would he not hire the Cooper guy?

Kegboy
01-18-2006, 09:17 PM
Keg, why would he not hire the Cooper guy?

Cause he's a Laker.

Bball
01-18-2006, 09:18 PM
Cause he's a Laker.

So was Magic Johnson... Does he hate him too?

-Bball

Harmonica
01-18-2006, 09:35 PM
Deserves another year.

Harmonica
01-18-2006, 09:36 PM
So was Magic Johnson... Does he hate him too?

-Bball

Heh. I just noticed you have a screen shot from "M" as your avatar. Nice.

Ragnar
01-18-2006, 09:44 PM
I am in the he should not be back but will camp. I think Bird will break the three year rule and he will use the Ron debacle as the reason. He will say Rick has really only had one year.

denyfizle
01-18-2006, 09:48 PM
Nope. He will be at least given a decent run (1 year or 2) at it with a complete Pacer team without drama and distractions.

MillerTime
01-18-2006, 10:00 PM
Rick doesn't get a free pass for the Artest stuff. He caused a lot of it with his prehistoric scripted offense that doesn't give the players any freedom. I bet Artest would have never exploded like this under a Larry Brown or Philip. He has got to go.

Gamble
01-18-2006, 10:01 PM
I am always game for an upgrade but i doubt there be one.
He certianly deserves another year and i think whats lacking
is more so the assistant coaches. Someone needs to
stroke the ego's on the team and I am pretty sure thats not
RC strength.

This was also covered in the forum party.

BlueNGold
01-18-2006, 10:18 PM
RC is a good strategist, but is not a people person IMO. I think he lacks the personality it takes to mix well with the players, particularly the 'hood guys like Jack, Tins and Ron Ron. The problem is, Rick is too suburban, baby. JMAO.

Roaming Gnome
01-18-2006, 10:25 PM
My opinion on this changes about daily, but I'm starting to lean towards Carlisle will be here, and I'm glad for it. For me, as long as Granger and Harrison receive major minutes in games...I have no problem with him.

Carlisle is also starting to loosen the reins a little bit and that is fine with me.

Carlisle is showing that he is not as stubborn as he has been in the past, but then again, this team always being in constant flux from injury to kncukleheads won't give him a chance to be stubborn.

Kegboy
01-18-2006, 11:35 PM
So was Magic Johnson... Does he hate him too?

-Bball

No, but he'd never hire him, either.

Hoop
01-19-2006, 12:39 AM
It would be insanely stupid not to have Rick as our coach next season.

NPFII
01-19-2006, 05:28 AM
I'd say "No - he won't be here for next season, and yes - it's a good thing".

Carlisle always struck me as someone who doesnt have "what it takes" to bring a title. Sure he's a good coach. Sure he can teach the young guys to play, and sure - he has HIS style and all that...

But when the chips are down - he doesn't have it.

Would Ron Artest have gone ballistic if say Phil Jackson was his coach last year? Maybe. Would he have demanded a trade on the air if say Larry Brown was the coach? Maybe. Is it possible that ego issues (Tins, Jax, JO, Ron, etc) would surface all the time under say Pat Riley? Maybe.

Maybe not.

Carlisle is partly responsible for these issues being issues. He just doesn't have that psychological aspect of his coaching that can take the team over the hill. Can you even imagine the Pacers finishing 8th and making it to the Finals? No way! There's no fire, no passion - just X's and O's. That's just not enough.

[BTW - I have a feeling the Pistons will find out that Flip is of the same mold and if they lose a few games in the playoffs they might be so rattled that they could break.]

From reading between the lines of Bird's comments, I have a feeling he's going to bring in a Euro coach, but one that knows the NBA (ala Mike D'Antoni). There are several coaches like this in Europe, the main leader (IMO) is David Blatt of Bennetton Treviso.
I wouldn't be surprised to see another leading Euro player or two signed as FA in the summer.
I really hope, for the Pacers sake, that this is what happens.

RWB
01-19-2006, 08:15 AM
If Rick does not come back as coach will it finally happen with Donnie stepping down, Bird taking his place, and Carlisle stepping into Bird's shoes?

Black Sox
01-19-2006, 08:24 AM
Carlisle will be back there is not ifs, ands, or buts about it. This team would have been a 25 win team last year and 30 win team this year without him. You don't play euro ball by hiring a euro coach, you play by players not worrying about their numbers. But the way the NBA game is setup you get paid by your numbers.

Slick Pinkham
01-19-2006, 09:08 AM
Carlisle will be back.

Bird just made up that 3-year rule thing, since he was tired of coaching and had some health issues that needed to be taken care of and he didn't want them publicized as a reason for him to leave the bench.

naptownmenace
01-19-2006, 10:28 AM
I know this isn't a poll, but I'll go with

3) Yes, he'll be back and we should be glad about that.

There aren't that many quality coaches out there, and Carlisle has shown that he can motivate players, adapt to advertisty, and work the Xs and Os better than most.

Besides, there won't be anyone better available this summer.

I'd sooner turn over the whole roster than dump Carlisle.

I agree with every single word. :nod:

indygeezer
01-19-2006, 11:32 AM
I'd say "No - he won't be here for next season, and yes - it's a good thing".

Carlisle always struck me as someone who doesnt have "what it takes" to bring a title. Sure he's a good coach. Sure he can teach the young guys to play, and sure - he has HIS style and all that...

But when the chips are down - he doesn't have it.

Would Ron Artest have gone ballistic if say Phil Jackson was his coach last year? Maybe. Would he have demanded a trade on the air if say Larry Brown was the coach? Maybe. Is it possible that ego issues (Tins, Jax, JO, Ron, etc) would surface all the time under say Pat Riley? Maybe.

Maybe not.

Carlisle is partly responsible for these issues being issues. He just doesn't have that psychological aspect of his coaching that can take the team over the hill. Can you even imagine the Pacers finishing 8th and making it to the Finals? No way! There's no fire, no passion - just X's and O's. That's just not enough.

[BTW - I have a feeling the Pistons will find out that Flip is of the same mold and if they lose a few games in the playoffs they might be so rattled that they could break.]

From reading between the lines of Bird's comments, I have a feeling he's going to bring in a Euro coach, but one that knows the NBA (ala Mike D'Antoni). There are several coaches like this in Europe, the main leader (IMO) is David Blatt of Bennetton Treviso.
I wouldn't be surprised to see another leading Euro player or two signed as FA in the summer.
I really hope, for the Pacers sake, that this is what happens.
----------------------------
You talking about Carlisle or Tony Dungy???

____________________________
Carlisle will be back.

Bird just made up that 3-year rule thing, since he was tired of coaching and had some health issues that needed to be taken care of and he didn't want them publicized as a reason for him to leave the bench.
----------------------------
As I remember it, he made that comment when he was hired. I am 99.99% positive we knew going in that it was supposed to be his last year.

NPFII
01-19-2006, 12:08 PM
You talking about Carlisle or Tony Dungy???


I dont follow American Rugby ... :laugh:

Well actually I do, a bit. And I wasn't surprised at all - not at the loss itself, and not at the missed tying FG. It's the same symptoms, and yes - there is a thread that connects this all back to Carlisle.

BTW - what happened to the Colts is by far the most optimistic thing could have happened to the Pacers, assuming you're a dedicated basketball fan and dont care too much for football. Sure - it's 1 game and not a series, and it's a different game and all, but if there's one word that can shed a ray of sunlight on this - Detroit.
To continue this somewhat irrelevant analogy - the Pacers would be the Panthers, and the Steelers would be the Heat, Patriots-Lakers & Broncos-SA. Just going on general perception, not anything solid...

Oh, and the Superbowl winners will be the Seahawks (Phoenix).