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View Full Version : Odd thoughts from the thriller in Chitown....



Peck
01-15-2006, 01:23 AM
Hot diggity D@mn!!!!!!!

That is all.
































Ok, fine so maybe there is more.

As is tradition here in odd thoughts we must pay homage to the opposition & let me say right now. If I could choose one other coach in the NBA today to step in & take over for Carlisle it would be Skiles. His teams play defense like they mean it & he is using an odd mixture of talent & getting it all to work.

Is there really any bigger dissapointment in the NBA than Tyson Chandler? Ok, no comment from Bball here ;) , but aside from our own dissapointment this guy takes the cake. Elton Brand for him??? Are you kidding me?

On the other hand is there a bigger suprise this season than Darius Songaila? This guy has come out of nowhere to become a solid contributer to their team.

Now let's look at us.

As I said in the Washington thread as goes Stephan Jackson so go the Pacers. I don't know whether to be scared or delighted?

When the guy is on he is just a very unique talent because of his ability to cut in the lane, post up & hit from distance. His defense is very underestimated I think & tonight he really put the screws to Gordon.

That last play was a play called for Jax but he saw A.J. had a better shot & he gave it up without hesitation. Not every player would do that btw & not every coach would be ok with them doing it either because in essance, he broke the play.

But since A.J. hit a circus shot to secure the win I think Rick will live with it.

David Harrison: This was his best game of the season on the defensive end & he totally shut off the offensive glass to Chicago in the second half when he was in there. He was responsible for poking three balls free but I think they only gave him credit for one steal. Sweetney was able to push everyone else down on the blocks, he was not able to push David.

The sad part is that every single one of the shots he took looked good & rimmed out everytime. But I don't care so much about his offense right now because I was thrilled with the D he played & the rebounding he provided.

Did Sweetney ever make a play on David all night? I'm not sure he did.

Jeff Foster: Ok, don't ask me why but I like Foster in this role & have not yet found myself complaining when he is in the game. I still hate him with J.O. but I love him with Cro & I even found myself happy with him with Harrison. He finally started catching the passes that were thrown at him & in this game he was throwing it down or laying it in. In other words he was not a void on the offensive end.

He even was actually fighting for rebounds which made me very happy.

Speaking of fighting for rebounds.

Danny Granger: Remember in the pre-season predictions where I said that he would lead the team in rebounding? Well, obviously he's not going to do that but I would not put it past him doing it next season & in fact I think one day he will be one of the best rebounders in the NBA. Yes, I said the NBA.

He has a nose for the ball, but more importantly he has a fight & a will to get the ball that I have not seen since, well we all know who I'm going to say so I won't bother. But Granger is just a dynamo down low.

At one point in time you had Foster, Granger & Harrison in there defending the Bulls goal. They settled for a lot of jumpers then & they go no offensive rebounds.

Danny didn't score much & let's be honest he is still a rookie. But this guy is something special.

Saras: I want to see what happens when Jamaal returns because right now Saras has gotten into a good groove leading that second unit. As long as he can cut down on some of the turnovers I see no reason why he shouldn't still get a lions share of the min. at the p.g. spot even when J.T. is totally healthy.

His defense is now at the point where he is not any form of liability at all & we all know he has his shot down. It's still J.T.'s spot to lose, but Saras has been doing a very good job in his absence.

Fred Jones: I don't care how good of defense he played on Hinrich if the guy doesn't learn to quit jumping & then passing I'm going to have a heart attack. Yes, he did a good job of keeping Hinrick from the middle but had he not hit that three down towards the end it would have all been for naught. So I will say Fred played an even game at best.

Austin played ok. He hit some big three's but he didn't drive enough for my taste.

Ok, one last note before I go & no this is not a joke.

Don't you think we should give some credit to Eddie Gill for being professional. Yes, I know how sad it is in this day & age when you have to do this but you do.

Ed Gill is a pro who show's up every game, never causes a problem, plays whenever he is asked to & still cheers his team.

No, he will never be much of an NBA player but on our team after the past 6 years (yes I'm going before Ron even) it's nice to have a player who knows his role & doesn't throw a fit when things don't go his way.

Pig Nash
01-15-2006, 01:33 AM
I don't know why, but every time I see your avatar, I think of the Forum Party. Great Recap, I agree.

Unclebuck
01-15-2006, 01:36 AM
I was a huge fan of Darius Songaila when he was on the Kings. he was a great energy guy off the bench and could play good defense.


Peck, doesn't Jeff always fight for rebounds. I'm confused

Pig Nash
01-15-2006, 01:39 AM
Those are loose balls!

:-p

Peck
01-15-2006, 01:42 AM
I was a huge fan of Darius Songaila when he was on the Kings. he was a great energy guy off the bench and could play good defense.


Peck, doesn't Jeff always fight for rebounds. I'm confused


Not like last night he doesn't.

indypacerfan54
01-15-2006, 01:52 AM
I thought Saras' D was poor at best. Dont know if the guards were too fast or strong, but he seemed to lose his man very frequently.

brichard
01-15-2006, 01:59 AM
Jeff Foster: He finally started catching the passes that were thrown at him & in this game he was throwing it down or laying it in. In other words he was not a void on the offensive end. He even was actually fighting for rebounds which made me very happy.

I did not see the entire game, but I did watch the last 10 minutes or so. There was a time where somebody was playing matador defense on Jeff and he was at least to the free throw line with nobody in striking distance. So I trust you that he was better tonight, but I'd still like to see him be more aggressive with that type of room.

I saw Jeff get some boards tonight, but really he seemed to have to foul (without being called) to get 'em. The size of Sweetney seemed to bother Jeff, and I think he tried a little "pinball rebounding" tonight. He would just throw himself into Sweetney. It would push Sweetney just out of the way and Jeff would bounce off of him and be in position for the board. Sometimes they called Jeff for it, sometimes not. Oh well, whatever it takes... I do love his effort.

Question: If you want JT to start at PG and Saras to run the second unit, what becomes of AJ? I'm not disagreeing with your asessment, Saras is very good. I just hate for AJ to become a casualty when he can play in this league.

Frank Slade
01-15-2006, 01:59 AM
I thought Saras' D was poor at best. Dont know if the guards were too fast or strong, but he seemed to lose his man very frequently.

actually he looked better tonight... although I do think sometimes he still gets confused on when to double and when to stay on his man

brichard
01-15-2006, 02:04 AM
By the way... .769 from the FT line tonight. Is that a record for us this season? 30-39 is pretty strong and I'm sure it was a big reason we won tonight.

Bball
01-15-2006, 02:04 AM
Question: If you want JT to start at PG and Saras to run the second unit, what becomes of AJ? I'm not disagreeing with your asessment, Saras is very good. I just hate for AJ to become a casualty when he can play in this league.

If AJ is the starting PG now, and Saras the 2nd unit PG, I don't see why everybody assumes it would be AJ that is odd man out. It's either Saras or Tinsley himself.

Am I missing something?

-Bball

Pig Nash
01-15-2006, 02:06 AM
by the way, my MagicRatesque status is starting to take hold.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6914/libandtom3dc.jpg

brichard
01-15-2006, 02:09 AM
If AJ is the starting PG now, and Saras the 2nd unit PG, I don't see why everybody assumes it would be AJ that is odd man out. It's either Saras or Tinsley himself.

Am I missing something?

-Bball

Well Peck said that he wanted to see Saras get the lions share of the minutes even when JT returned. I gathered that Peck assumed JT would be starting... since he usually does when he is healthy.

And I don't think there are enough minutes for 3 PG's in a game. AJ isn't a strong enough scorer to stretch defenses from the 2, and Saras hates it so... I just assumed AJ would be out. However, I did not know if that's what Peck was thinking, so hence the question.

:)

blanket
01-15-2006, 02:17 AM
Can someone explain to me the "punching the ball" call on Croshere in the first half? I didn't realize it was a foul to bat a loose ball out to your teammates with your fist. What's the reasoning behind that?

Also, I'm interested to know who people consider to be Chicago's best player. Their talent seems pretty even, with the possibility of almost half a dozen guys being the best player on the team for a given night. That said, Noccioni is huge for them.

Bball
01-15-2006, 02:21 AM
Well Peck said that he wanted to see Saras get the lions share of the minutes even when JT returned. I gathered that Peck assumed JT would be starting... since he usually does when he is healthy.

And I don't think there are enough minutes for 3 PG's in a game. AJ isn't a strong enough scorer to stretch defenses from the 2, and Saras hates it so... I just assumed AJ would be out. However, I did not know if that's what Peck was thinking, so hence the question.

:)

I agree there's not enough minutes for 3 PG's when everyone is healthy. We actually have 4 PGs...

But if AJ is the starting PG now... and Saras is the 2nd string PG... I'm not seeing the line of reasoning that AJ is off man out when Tinsley is able to return. It has to either be Saras or Tinsley himself (doesn't it?).

Are we saying "Saras is perfect for the second unit and so we can't mess with that".... and "Tinsley is clearly the starter when able"

...so AJ is merely Tinsley's backup?

Or are we saying Carlisle will find a way to get all 3 of them minutes- And we've already seen Carlisle's plan for that and, frankly, it sucked (Saras as SG) IMHO.

I'm not sure what I am missing that others are seeing. AJ is the starter right now but when Tinsley is able to return we replace AJ as the starter while Saras stays as the 1st PG off the bench??? Why would AJ get such a demotion (from starter to benched)?

I think I am misunderstanding something...

-Bball

tora tora
01-15-2006, 02:23 AM
That last play was a play called for Jax but he saw A.J. had a better shot & he gave it up without hesitation.

Actually I think Jackson was a decoy in that play, nice call too. :)

Bball
01-15-2006, 02:31 AM
Actually I think Jackson was a decoy in that play, nice call too. :)


Someone has paraphrased an Sjax interview where he said the play was for him to take the shot but he saw AJ get open and he got him the ball.

-Bball

Peck
01-15-2006, 02:42 AM
Actually I think Jackson was a decoy in that play, nice call too. :)

According to Jax in the post game interview the call was for him to take the shot, he just saw A.J. make the cut & decided that he had a better shot at it.

SoupIsGood
01-15-2006, 02:46 AM
I ahven't watched the game yet, why didnt JO playm uch?

SycamoreKen
01-15-2006, 02:49 AM
I ahven't watched the game yet, why didnt JO playm uch?

Sprained his ankle.

SoupIsGood
01-15-2006, 02:58 AM
I agree there's not enough minutes for 3 PG's when everyone is healthy. We actually have 4 PGs...

But if AJ is the starting PG now... and Saras is the 2nd string PG... I'm not seeing the line of reasoning that AJ is off man out when Tinsley is able to return. It has to either be Saras or Tinsley himself (doesn't it?).

Are we saying "Saras is perfect for the second unit and so we can't mess with that".... and "Tinsley is clearly the starter when able"

...so AJ is merely Tinsley's backup?

Or are we saying Carlisle will find a way to get all 3 of them minutes- And we've already seen Carlisle's plan for that and, frankly, it sucked (Saras as SG) IMHO.

I'm not sure what I am missing that others are seeing. AJ is the starter right now but when Tinsley is able to return we replace AJ as the starter while Saras stays as the 1st PG off the bench??? Why would AJ get such a demotion (from starter to benched)?

I think I am misunderstanding something...

-Bball

Because he isn't as good as Tinsley or Saras.

Bball
01-15-2006, 03:13 AM
Because he isn't as good as Tinsley or Saras.

:banghead:

Then why is AJ starting?

Let me rephrase what I am saying/asking-

The team is starting AJ now, therefore doesn't that mean that someone who has the power to make the call has decided AJ is better than Saras?

And Saras is coming off the bench, again implying to me that someone in the coaching/managing hierarchy has made the call that he isn't as good as AJ.

Why does Tinsley's return (let's assume he'll eventually be healthy enough for a return) change that thinking???? How does that make AJ go from starter to 3rd string PG?

Or is this what I am missing:
You think sometime before Tinsley's return Carlisle will decide Saras should be ahead of AJ in the rotation? And further, you don't think Tinsley will be odd man out so Tinsley gets the start, Saras slides back from starter to 2nd string, and AJ from 2nd string to 3rd string?

In that case, everyone is making a giant leap. Based on the here and now, that's not what I am seeing (as far as what TPTB are doing).

-Bball

Pig Nash
01-15-2006, 03:23 AM
AJ is starting because he has a better raport with the starters than Saras. Saras is better with the second unit where he is more in control.

Will Galen
01-15-2006, 08:09 AM
AJ is starting because he has a better raport with the starters than Saras. Saras is better with the second unit where he is more in control.

What he said! And we all know Rick does stuff like that.

Raskolnikov
01-15-2006, 08:21 AM
Don't you think we should give some credit to Eddie Gill for being professional. Yes, I know how sad it is in this day & age when you have to do this but you do.

Ed Gill is a pro who show's up every game, never causes a problem, plays whenever he is asked to & still cheers his team.

No, he will never be much of an NBA player but on our team after the past 6 years (yes I'm going before Ron even) it's nice to have a player who knows his role & doesn't throw a fit when things don't go his way.
Agreed.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

hoopsforlife
01-15-2006, 08:23 AM
I really don't think minutes will be a problem for one of them after the Artest trade goes down.

Rytas_Jega
01-15-2006, 09:17 AM
I was a huge fan of Darius Songaila when he was on the Kings. he was a great energy guy off the bench and could play good defense.


In 2003 summer Songaila chose to play in the NBA almost for free (minimum with all those American taxes) instead of second season for 700 000 dollars and Euroleague star status at Moscow CSKA.

Last summer he turned some better offers and chose to sign with Chicago for 2.2 million because of their game style and Chicago's Lithuanians community.

He really loves basketball, he doesn't mind money very much.

Unclebuck
01-15-2006, 09:31 AM
Can someone explain to me the "punching the ball" call on Croshere in the first half? I didn't realize it was a foul to bat a loose ball out to your teammates with your fist. What's the reasoning behind that?

Also, I'm interested to know who people consider to be Chicago's best player. Their talent seems pretty even, with the possibility of almost half a dozen guys being the best player on the team for a given night. That said, Noccioni is huge for them.


The punching the ball is not a foul it is just a violation and the other team gets the ball. It's a good rule, you don't want players going for the ball with a closed fist.

The Bulls have the talent of a 25 win team, maybe a 20 win team, but they play so hard and play such good defense they'll win 35 games or so. I think Hinrick is their best player. Gordon is good and so is Dang and Noccioni. They are very well coached as Peck pointed out and they have players willing to do the dirty work

Ragnar
01-15-2006, 09:33 AM
If AJ is the starting PG now, and Saras the 2nd unit PG, I don't see why everybody assumes it would be AJ that is odd man out. It's either Saras or Tinsley himself.

Am I missing something?

-Bball

Remember Ricks insane reasoning for starting AJ in the past?

If you will remember he used the excuse that he wanted the backup pg to stay in that role and he leapfroged AJ into the lead.

Of course he would never do this with any other position. Can you imagine starting Samaki Walker at pf because J.O. is out?

Well anyway when JT comes back I think Tins will start and Sarunas will be the backup. Its the only sane thing to do. They are both clearly superior to AJ and we would win a hell of a lot more games.

NPFII
01-15-2006, 09:59 AM
Remember Ricks insane reasoning for starting AJ in the past?

If you will remember he used the excuse that he wanted the backup pg to stay in that role and he leapfroged AJ into the lead.

Of course he would never do this with any other position. Can you imagine starting Samaki Walker at pf because J.O. is out?

Well anyway when JT comes back I think Tins will start and Sarunas will be the backup. Its the only sane thing to do. They are both clearly superior to AJ and we would win a hell of a lot more games.

This is my take on the PG situation:

When, and a big IF Tinsley returns, he'll be brought in slowly.

5 minutes the 1st game, 10 minutes the next, etc. - until he's completely healthy (3-5 games).

[ During this stretch he'll probably get injured again, so no problem. ]

If he does make it healthy and he's playing his game, he'll be back to his starting role. He'll have 2 backups in Saras and AJ. AJ special for defense, and Saras special for offense. Rick will juggle them accordingly.

Both Saras & AJ can play smaller SG (again - AJ defense, Saras offense), along with JT.

AJ & Saras will play less minutes, but that's expected... Some games AJ won't play much at all ("light" teams like the Sonics, Kings, Phoenix, etc.). Some games Saras won't play much at all ("heavy" teams like Memphis, Chicago, Orlando, Detroit, etc.).
In general, I think Saras will need to come off the bench for the offensive spark, more than AJ for defense, but it will depend on the situation each game.

One more thing - I hope Rick finishes games with Saras on the floor at any position for his FT%, his experience, and his clutch shooting.

brichard
01-15-2006, 08:25 PM
:banghead:

Then why is AJ starting?

Let me rephrase what I am saying/asking-

The team is starting AJ now, therefore doesn't that mean that someone who has the power to make the call has decided AJ is better than Saras?

And Saras is coming off the bench, again implying to me that someone in the coaching/managing hierarchy has made the call that he isn't as good as AJ.

Why does Tinsley's return (let's assume he'll eventually be healthy enough for a return) change that thinking???? How does that make AJ go from starter to 3rd string PG?

Or is this what I am missing:
You think sometime before Tinsley's return Carlisle will decide Saras should be ahead of AJ in the rotation? And further, you don't think Tinsley will be odd man out so Tinsley gets the start, Saras slides back from starter to 2nd string, and AJ from 2nd string to 3rd string?

In that case, everyone is making a giant leap. Based on the here and now, that's not what I am seeing (as far as what TPTB are doing).

-Bball

Well you are making the assumption that you always start your very best player at each position. Sometimes your 6th man is your 3rd best player. You just save him for some punch off of the bench.

And right now, I think Rick is searching for that elusive chemistry that we can not see to find. If AJ is worse than Saras overall, but functions better with the first unit, then Rick is going to keep him there. Saras gives him a playmaker with the second unit that can score.

JT is also a better playmaker than AJ, and since he has been the starter forever, it seems unlikely to me he will lose that role once he returns. We are paying Saras too much money to be a third option, so I just don't think that will happen. As odd as it sounds, I think it is very likely that AJ will go from 1 to 3. The only way this doesn't happen, as far as I can see, is if Rick is playing both Saras and AJ. But... that would put Saras back at the 2 where he likes to be.

I could be wrong though. :cool:

SoupIsGood
01-16-2006, 12:07 AM
:banghead:

Then why is AJ starting?



-Bball

Rick likes to keep the backups in their roles. I think he sees Saras as a long term backup (that sucks but thats ricks call)..