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View Full Version : Three major reasons why we won tonight



Unclebuck
01-14-2006, 11:17 PM
1) Fred Jones great defense on Hinrick in the second half. Kirk is the key to the Bulls offense and Freddie did a great job on him.

2) Harrison great defensive rebounding in the second half he really controlled the boards.

3) Jax great third quarter got the Pacers back into the game and gave them the offensive push that was needed to win the game.

4) OK, so I lied, there were 4 major reasons. AJ's great cut and behind the head shot to put the Pacers up two, with 3.9 second left. Then the foresight to miss the free throw which took 1.3 seconds off the clock which was the difference in Gordon's shot not counting. (yes I know if AJ made the FT the pacers would have been up 3, but throw me a bone)

Overall the Pacers played a gritty and determined 2nd half.

Tim
01-14-2006, 11:20 PM
Does anyone here doubt that if AJ made his free throw the Bulls would have come back and hit the 3?

I just knew they would hit the last shot, surprised that it didn't count.

Indyfan
01-14-2006, 11:23 PM
I didn't see the game so did AJ really miss the FT on purpose or not? I'm surprised they didn't just hit the three to win it at the buzzer! Maybe our luck is changing?? Lets hope so!

Outlaw
01-14-2006, 11:26 PM
Harrison did a great job on the glass which was good to see.Considering he was battling the 21st century version of Oliver Miller(Sweetney)What A HUGE posterier.(sp?):laugh:

Frank Slade
01-14-2006, 11:26 PM
Does anyone here doubt that if AJ made his free throw the Bulls would have come back and hit the 3?

I just knew they would hit the last shot, surprised that it didn't count.

Yes in fact I was already thinking Ahead after AJ hits the free throw ... we should just go ahead and foul them and give up the 2 pts and get the ball back... instead of the bulls hitting a three and taking it into OT....

Pacers deserved this one

Ragnar
01-14-2006, 11:31 PM
That was the most well thought out play I have seen the pacers play in a long long time. EVERY ONE thought Jack was taking that shot. The entire building, everyone watching and most importantly every player on the Bulls.


I have a officiating question. How were the Bulls able to call time out when Jack was still fighting for controll of the ball. They had just grabed it and were still fumbling the ball yet they got a timeout.








P.S. that was the best eveyone knew who was going to take the shot but they were wrong moment since Smits and before that Byron.

Bball
01-14-2006, 11:36 PM
#1 reason is the Pacers play better all around basketball when JO is not in the game. It's no longer a coincidence. We saw it last season and we are seeing it this season. It's not that we are losers with JO but we just play a better all around game without him.

I've suggested we are playing him too much and leaning on him too much... because he is good... but maybe he's not 'that' good.

But I'm wondering if it goes deeper than that.

I know some are not going to agree with my premise... And I don't have an answer as to 'why' it is we play better without JO. But it's time we start paying attention.

-Bball

Bball
01-14-2006, 11:38 PM
I didn't see the game so did AJ really miss the FT on purpose or not?

No... and if he did miss it on purpose that would be the dumbest play of the season.

-Bball

croz24
01-14-2006, 11:41 PM
5) no jo. pacers play much better under rick w/out jo.

hoopsforlife
01-14-2006, 11:43 PM
I thought the game turned when AJ came in during the fourth quarter. We had a nice lead at that point. AJ made the game interesting by presiding over the reduction of the lead to a tie and then made a difficult shot with 2.5 seconds left to play. He then missed the free throw to add excitement for the home crowd.

We were lucky Ben didn't shoot a three.

Slick Pinkham
01-14-2006, 11:46 PM
Another reason-- we cut out almost all of the isolation crap on offense and passed the ball.

I saw almost because we did isolate Jackson every time Hinrich was on him, and that was working out. I'm a little surpised Skiles kept with Gordon/Duhon/Hinrich so much since Jackson was tough in the post for them to stop.

Hinrich is a good defender against PG and smaller 2's, but Jackson was killing him.

Unclebuck
01-14-2006, 11:48 PM
I didn't see the game so did AJ really miss the FT on purpose or not? I'm surprised they didn't just hit the three to win it at the buzzer! Maybe our luck is changing?? Lets hope so!



No I was joking. And no he didn't miss the free throw on purpose

Unclebuck
01-14-2006, 11:53 PM
That was the most well thought out play I have seen the pacers play in a long long time. EVERY ONE thought Jack was taking that shot. The entire building, everyone watching and most importantly every player on the Bulls.





I really don't think that was a planned play for AJ to cut backdoor. I mean that is always an option. But the play was for Jax to isolate on the wing and take the shot or draw a double team and find the open man. In other words that play was no different than any other Jax iso play. Except it was on the left side of the floor.

Isaac
01-14-2006, 11:56 PM
I was kind of made about that. Its great when S-Jax is on, but I just wish he would learn to freaking pass the ball on those iso's more often............

I actually thought Jack did a pretty good job passing out of double teams, in the second half. His first half was terrible, he shot too much, and they weren't falling. In the second half he played much smarter, and it really payed off.

Unclebuck
01-15-2006, 12:00 AM
One thing about Post ups or isolation plays, if the defensive teams does not double team then the offensive player should shoot it 99% of the time especially when there is a mismatch. He should not pass it.

Bball
01-15-2006, 12:06 AM
I'm losing my edge...
Nobody even challenges me anymore.

:(

-Bball

DisplacedKnick
01-15-2006, 12:09 AM
Number 1 reason you won is that games aren't 48 minutes and one second long ...

Good effort.

Unclebuck
01-15-2006, 12:09 AM
#1 reason is the Pacers play better all around basketball when JO is not in the game. It's no longer a coincidence. We saw it last season and we are seeing it this season. It's not that we are losers with JO but we just play a better all around game without him.

I've suggested we are playing him too much and leaning on him too much... because he is good... but maybe he's not 'that' good.

But I'm wondering if it goes deeper than that.

I know some are not going to agree with my premise... And I don't have an answer as to 'why' it is we play better without JO. But it's time we start paying attention.

-Bball


Oh you want a challenge?


I don't agree that we play better without J.O. We might play a more team game, we might play a style of basketball that is more fun to watch. But I don't think the Pacers are a better team without J.O.

Arcadian
01-15-2006, 12:15 AM
I'm losing my edge...
Nobody even challenges me anymore.

:(

-Bball

I disagree but...

I've come to the conclusion that much like those who claim AJ is horrid will believe we lose the lead everytime AJ steps on the court, those who dislike JO will point to the each win without him on the court as evidence that he is the problem.

slyder
01-15-2006, 12:22 AM
right, we need JO and of course we are
overall a better team w/ him - but BBall
has a good point. tonight it was a combination
of 2 things -

1. less ISO plays, standing around, better ball movement
2. the fact that teams frequently rally and put forth
the extra effort when the lead player gets hurt or is out.

tonight, effort was the big key. those guys were
really after it.

Slick Pinkham
01-15-2006, 12:35 AM
less ISO plays, standing around, better ball movement


I'd like this to happen when JO is healthy. His personal scoring average would go down a little but the team would be harder to stop.

But obviously we are better off with JO. It just that when he is out, it forces offensive changes that should be made anyway.

Bball
01-15-2006, 12:40 AM
I disagree but...

I've come to the conclusion that much like those who claim AJ is horrid will believe we lose the lead everytime AJ steps on the court, those who dislike JO will point to the each win without him on the court as evidence that he is the problem.

You can see what I'm talking about in wins or losses. Just because we win doesn't mean JO was the difference or we wouldn't have won without him. ...and vice versa.

Maybe UB is right and I'm confusing what the Pacers do without JO to what I'd rather see from the team. ...And maybe I am being fooled into thinking it is better. Maybe my eyes decieve me.

It's an odd thought but I'm wondering if JO is a small forward in a PF/C's body.

-Bball

slyder
01-15-2006, 12:46 AM
It's an odd thought but I'm wondering if JO is a small forward in a PF/C's body.

-Bball

or maybe he's a C in a body that really doesn't want
to go up against other Cs.

brichard
01-15-2006, 12:47 AM
They interviewed S.Jax after the game and he said that the coach had told him to take the last shot. However, he said AJ made a smart play, back doored his man and got open for the shot. So, Jax made a very unselfish play there even though he had it going tonight.

I dare say if Saras had made that last shot that many would be prepared to offer him the key to the city.

AJ did make a couple of bonehead moves when he came in, but not all of them were his fault. He did get called for a very questionable offensive foul and he also lost the ball on a drive. So there were two plays I recall that he deserved some grief, but the drive to the hoop could have went either way.

Of course everybody seems to forget the rebound he pulled down during that stretch, and the fact that he got open and shot a very difficult shot from behind the back. He did miss the last foul shot, but he was due since he had just made [b]6-6[/b.] Did I mention that Mr. Clutch Sarunas was in during the last seconds and who was our clutch shooter? A.J.

Even when he hits the game winner he is roasted. Unbelievable.

Bball
01-15-2006, 12:56 AM
or maybe he's a C in a body that really doesn't want
to go up against other Cs.

That's kinda what I meant ;)

He doesn't want to do the physical dirty work that traditional PF or C's do... the blocking out... the fighting for position... the fighting for a big rebound.. the playing with power.

He wants to do the finesse stuff (which I am attributing more to a small forward) and so therefore gets frustrated with the lack of calls... with the physicallity of being inside and fades as the game goes along (even if the defense hasn't already taken him out of his game mentally by then).

Meanwhile the Pacers, and probably JO himself, keep pretending he's something he's not (a one man wrecking crew) and continually going to him and playing him lots of minutes... simply guaranteeing he's going to be fading at the end of the game... or the end of the season.

-Bball

Arcadian
01-15-2006, 01:23 AM
Hakeem was a SF in a center's body. Not that I am comparing JO to him but I don't believe it is an all together slight against a player. I mean what is the alternative wishing that he was slower and had less ability?

There are a number of reasons we aren't a championship team. JO isn't very high on that list unless it is because he is JO and not Shaq or Duncan.

I know a lot of people complain about being us a post-iso team but without a post game we become a jump shooting team with this cast. I don't really get excited by that prospect.

Bball
01-15-2006, 01:28 AM
Hakeem was a SF in a center's body. Not that I am comparing JO to him but I don't believe it is an all together slight against a player. I mean what is the alternative wishing that he was slower and had less ability?

There are a number of reasons we aren't a championship team. JO isn't very high on that list unless it is because he is JO and not Shaq or Duncan.

I know a lot of people complain about being us a post-iso team but without a post game we become a jump shooting team with this cast. I don't really get excited by that prospect.

I'm opining that JO is being used wrong. We're asking him to be something he is not... or he's not what he thinks he is... or both. I don't really know.

We're force feeding him like he's a one man wrecking crew and he's just not -that-.

IOW, as long as he's not Tim Duncan or Shaq maybe we shouldn't be building the team and playing the game like he is.

-Bball

SoupIsGood
01-15-2006, 01:55 AM
#1 reason is the Pacers play better all around basketball when JO is not in the game.

-Bball

No.

Raskolnikov
01-15-2006, 01:58 AM
They interviewed S.Jax after the game and he said that the coach had told him to take the last shot. However, he said AJ made a smart play, back doored his man and got open for the shot. So, Jax made a very unselfish play there even though he had it going tonight.

I have to say that the last five games or so are starting to change my opinion that Jax has to be shipped out. If he drives to the basket more and passes the ball well like he's been doing lately, he's a keeper.

CableKC
01-15-2006, 02:07 AM
I pointed this out in the game thread.....I think one of the reasons why we came out ahead is cuz SJax drove to the hoop several times when his shot wasn't dropping for him.....drawing double-digit trips to the FT line.

He got hot in the 2nd half....but many of his points he earned from the stripe.

If he did this more often...then I would be content with him not being consistent.

Jon Theodore
01-15-2006, 03:30 AM
AJ = Clutch. AJ is more clutch than Jermaine O'neal will ever be, sorry folks.

Also, I think JErmaines great...what he brings defensively is not given enough credit. But his attitude is pretty weak for a a so called leader, regardless...this team would obviously be better if Jermaine assumed a Dale Davis type role and let his offense come to him. Soon enough Granger will be a bigger offensive threat than JO anyways and I think guys like Runi/JAck/Fred/DH can pick up some more offensive responsibilities.

I feel bad that Runi came here, I just hate seeing Fred Jones miss a superb pass from Saras...but it is what he's used to...I can't blame him.

If Saras stays on board here and the players can adjust to him, we will be really good. So basically we need to trade Tins/Ron obviously and get something really good.

But thats a whole different discussion I guess.

Anyways, we play better basketball with Jermaine. Well everyone not named Jermaine Oneal seems to play better in his absence. Strange, but true.

NorCal_Pacerfan
01-15-2006, 06:29 AM
You forgot Croshere and his threes... major lift off the bench when we needed to stay in the game.

Mourning
01-15-2006, 06:45 AM
AJ = Clutch. AJ is more clutch than Jermaine O'neal will ever be, sorry folks.

Also, I think JErmaines great....

Starting the "JO is the worst Pacer ever"-thread, but you think he's great anyway? :wtf:







;)

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Raskolnikov
01-15-2006, 07:02 AM
I pointed this out in the game thread
I read it, and then I stole your opinion. :evillaugh


.....I think one of the reasons why we came out ahead is cuz SJax drove to the hoop several times when his shot wasn't dropping for him.....drawing double-digit trips to the FT line.

He got hot in the 2nd half....but many of his points he earned from the stripe.

If he did this more often...then I would be content with him not being consistent.
Totally agree.

Unclebuck
01-15-2006, 09:12 AM
I thought the biggest shot of the night was the three by Fred Jones.

Anthem
01-15-2006, 10:00 AM
AJ = Clutch. AJ is more clutch than Jermaine O'neal will ever be, sorry folks.
You're talking about the guy that missed the free throw that could have cost us the game, right?

Raskolnikov
01-15-2006, 10:30 AM
I don't know if this was posted yet: postgame quotes.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/quotes.html

POSTGAME QUOTES
Pacers 91, Bulls 89 <FONT size=2><!--

<table width="170" align="right" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="3" border="1" bordercolor="#003366"><th bgcolor="#003366"> NOTABLE</th><tr><td bgcolor="#ffcc00">NOTE HERE
NOTE HERE
NOTE HERE</td></tr></table>-->
<HR color=#b2b3b5>PACERS COACH RICK CARLISLE <TABLE width=65 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/rick_carlisle.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
(On their play?) "We fought back after a horrendous first half. We didn't play with much passion during that time. We showed all the signs of a selfish team. We talked about that at halftime. Tonight we earned one of the toughest wins of all. Chicago had rested for three days, Jermaine got hurt, and we're on a back to back. We had our struggles, but the guys rallied together and behind the fact we had lost Jermaine. It is important for us to understand what can be accomplished collectively."

(Their last shot?) "We wanted to get the ball into Stephen Jackson's hands. He had been a major force for us the whole game. That last basket of ours was indicative of the whole game. He made the unselfish pass to the open man."
(On losing O'Neal?) "We have to play with momentum with or without J.O. We have to be a drive and break team with a lot of ball movement. Tonight I thought a big point for us was Jones hitting that three. Also, I thought Harrison played his best half of the year. Especially on the defensive end. Our young guys performed for us tonight."
<HR color=#b2b3b5>PACERS FORWARD AUSTIN CROSHERE <TABLE width=65 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/austin_croshere.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
(On losing O'Neal?) "J.O. is a great player. When he went out, we knew others would have to step up. When he goes out, we become a drive and slash team. Most teams perpare to play us with him. So when he was out, they have to change their game. Tonight they went small with Nocioni and Deng out there. We're also very used to playing with an unsettled line-up. After the suspensions of last year and the injuries we suffered, we're ready to fillin whatever roll necessary."

(On the last shots) "For us, Stephen made a great pass. It was an unselfish play to the open man. Then, on Gordon's shot, he almost made a great play for them. Fred Jones did a good job getting up on him to force an extra dribble. It turned out to be the differnece in the game."
<HR color=#b2b3b5>PACERS GUARD ANTHONY JOHNSON <TABLE width=65 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/anthony_johnson.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
(On his basket) "They had some mix-up with coverage under the basket. When I broke, no one picked me up and Stephen made a great pass."

(On their play tonight) "In the first half, the Bulls' energy level and intensity was sky high. After halftime, we all pulled together and began to play defense aggressively. We played a much better game in that 2nd half."
(On Gordon's shot) "Gordon is known for making game winning plays. We knew that it was going to come down to that last shot. The one thing we did not want to let happen is to lose the game giving up a 3. We were going to make them drive the lane and hit a shot that way. We could then take our chances in overtime. When he made the shot we knew we had to wait for the review."

rabid
01-15-2006, 11:31 AM
You're talking about the guy that missed the free throw that could have cost us the game, right?

The guy that made the game-winning shot, you mean? Yeah, that's him.

Half-empty, half-full... :hmm:

indygeezer
01-15-2006, 12:39 PM
I don't know where else to put it so I'll put it here. I watch AJ run the point for us and I long for the play of Kevin Ollie. I give AJ for working and getting open and being able to put it down (are you watching that Jeff?) but dayummmm. It's painful to watch him dribble away/throw away our leads.

Jermaniac
01-15-2006, 12:40 PM
But I'm wondering if it goes deeper than that.


-Bball LMAO, This has got to go in the sig. This post describes your whole time on these boards. It always goes deeper with you.

Hicks
01-15-2006, 12:59 PM
JO is way more clutch then JO, or at the least they are tied.

Yes... they would be close... :hmm:

;)

Unclebuck
01-15-2006, 05:24 PM
JO is way more clutch then JO, or at the least they are tied.


That is classic

owl
01-15-2006, 05:40 PM
I'm opining that JO is being used wrong. We're asking him to be something he is not... or he's not what he thinks he is... or both. I don't really know.

We're force feeding him like he's a one man wrecking crew and he's just not -that-.

IOW, as long as he's not Tim Duncan or Shaq maybe we shouldn't be building the team and playing the game like he is.

-Bball


I could not agree with you more. I have been advocating JO play a defender,
rebounder, passer, shot blocker. JO should be a second or third scoring option.

owl

SoupIsGood
01-15-2006, 11:15 PM
How can anyone think AJ is very clutch? He bricks a shot at the end of every quarter.

Bball
01-15-2006, 11:55 PM
LMAO, This has got to go in the sig. This post describes your whole time on these boards. It always goes deeper with you.


FWIW, I explained what I was thinking about when I wrote that in subsequent posts in this thread.



-Bball

Bball
01-15-2006, 11:59 PM
I could not agree with you more. I have been advocating JO play a defender,
rebounder, passer, shot blocker. JO should be a second or third scoring option.

owl

I'm with you there and I wonder how many people, deep down, at least have a nagging worry that is the case.

How many times do we have to see the team play better without JO when he goes to the bench, or when he's out injured, before we (and TPTB) can't ignore it any longer?

-Bball

Unclebuck
01-16-2006, 09:57 AM
I could not agree with you more. I have been advocating JO play a defender,
rebounder, passer, shot blocker. JO should be a second or third scoring option.

owl



So Artest was right

Gamble
01-16-2006, 11:25 AM
Oh you want a challenge?


I don't agree that we play better without J.O. We might play a more team game, we might play a style of basketball that is more fun to watch. But I don't think the Pacers are a better team without J.O.

I think overall we play better team ball without JO and the blame
should go to the spread offense that RC plays.
I wasn't the guy who said it but RC is about 5 years back on the
NBA offense schemes.

Jermaniac
01-16-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm with you there and I wonder how many people, deep down, at least have a nagging worry that is the case.

How many times do we have to see the team play better without JO when he goes to the bench, or when he's out injured, before we (and TPTB) can't ignore it any longer?

-BballWhy dont you ever bring this up after we lose when JO is out? Easy to bring it up after wins, why didnt you bring it up after we got our asses handed to us by the Nuggets? What is the theory you have for that? Please give me one of your long posts explaining how JO,Tinsley and Bender are the reason that there isnt peace on the Earth.

Bball
01-16-2006, 06:11 PM
So Artest was right


Yes, he was. Artest was more important to the team than JO... when he was interested in playing basketball and instead of singing/rapping or producing. ...or challenging authority.

If I knew for a fact he'd be the happiest camper on Earth if he was the #1 option and never cause another problem his whole career due to that, then we screwed the pooch. But who could know that?

-Bball