PDA

View Full Version : Three major reasons we lost tonight



Shade
01-13-2006, 09:27 PM
1) Pacers fall behind with AJ in the game. Pacers come back and tie the game with AJ on the bench. AJ comes back in with the score tied, AJ's man scores 8 straight and puts the game away.

2) We couldn't hit anything for the vast majority of the game. If we can't score 90+, our defense is no longer good enough to gut out wins for us.

3) Gilbert Arenas. It was painful enough watching him torch us with ridiculous shot after ridiculous shot, but getting phantom fouls on top of it was the icing on the tombstone.

rabid
01-13-2006, 09:29 PM
How about driving into the lane and turning the ball over on 4 or 5 straight posessions in the late 4th...

Lord Helmet
01-13-2006, 09:29 PM
I agree with all that you said.

I'm really starting to lose it. The way we have had chances to win a lot of our losses this season.

tora tora
01-13-2006, 09:29 PM
:wah:

GetOdom
01-13-2006, 09:30 PM
Hmm, Shade I think you forgot to add the Ref's being a factor on the lose...

SoupIsGood
01-13-2006, 09:30 PM
I agree with you Shade, except for the part about our defense not being good enough. It is still good. The Artest-led defense wouldn't have played those crazy fades any better.

Shade
01-13-2006, 09:32 PM
Hmm, Shade I think you forgot to add the Ref's being a factor on the lose...

There's a subtle jab in the 3rd point.

Btw, how many f!@#ing times is Rick going to insert AJ into the game at the end when we make our run with his *** on the f!@#ing bench?! :pissed:

able
01-13-2006, 09:34 PM
well as long as Tins aint back you gonna see that more often, certainly if Saras is turning over the ball on silly drives as he did late in the game., though I admit, Jax should've been pulled for that in the 1st quarter, perhaps then we would have been in with a chance

Fireball Kid
01-13-2006, 09:35 PM
The Refs had nothing to do with this game. We couldnt execute on offensive posessions, and Gilbert Arenas torched us whenever he felt like it.

Oh, and Saras should freakin start!!!!!

waterjater
01-13-2006, 09:37 PM
4) We went away from what got us big wins- BALL MOVEMENT and SHARING THE BASKETBALL. Jackson 1 on 1, throw it in the post to Jermaine and stand around and WATCH!!!! WHY!!!????, AJ even going one on one. STUPID basketball.

? Why doesn't JO get any respect from the officials anymore. He should get to the line as frequently as Arenas and other NBA stars.....????

water

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:37 PM
So we are back to blaming AJ. Fred defended Gibert the whole 4th quarter. AJ did not guard him. (oh there might have been a switch once or twice.


The Wizards record is one of the biggest mysteries in the NBA this season. They should have a much better record than they do. That was the best I've ever seen the Wizards play defense.


I will criticize Rick for one thing, he should have stayed with Granger and Saras and kept Jax and AJ on the bench. He brought those two guys back in at the 4:50 mark.

At least Foster is back. Anyone else notice he is not fumbling the ball at all now and making most of his inside shots. AND YES HE BLOCKS OUT

FiestyFosterFanatic
01-13-2006, 09:38 PM
Plus Jermaine got used, missed big shots at the end.

able
01-13-2006, 09:40 PM
hey for once I am not blaming AJ, in fact I agreed with the sub late in the 4th, saras was giving the ball away almost as fast as jax

DeS
01-13-2006, 09:41 PM
I think Rick wanted to enter "fresh" defencive force to the end of the game, but he torched once again... I still can not understand this - it's always very very risky to enter "cold" players in the end of the close game.

GetOdom
01-13-2006, 09:41 PM
The Refs had nothing to do with this game. We couldnt execute on offensive posessions, and Gilbert Arenas torched us whenever he felt like it.

Oh, and Saras should freakin start!!!!!

Were you even watching the game? how many crappy calls did they call on us? I hate being the Mr. Excuse fan but clearly the ref's were a factor on this lose.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:43 PM
That out of bounds call was horrible. That is not a judgement call either

Shade
01-13-2006, 09:44 PM
That out of bounds call was horrible. That is not a judgement call either

How about that late phantom foul on Cro when Arenas missed that shot at the shot clock buzzer?

Jon Theodore
01-13-2006, 09:46 PM
You guys are pathetic "Aj's man" Were talking about Gilbert Arenas here...I bet Sarunas would of totally shut him down.

But like Buck said, Fred was guarding him anyhow. I quit paying attention in the 4th cuz I knew we were going to lose.

But all of you SAME people who get on other people for blaming jermaine...are JUST as ridiculous if not more for blaming AJ.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:49 PM
This probably not the thread for this, but it certainly is not worth starting a new thread.

Vescey was on NBATV tonight. Yes the Maggette deal is off, Peter said the Pacers are convinced Mags is done for the season.

Vescey really didn't know where the Pacers go from here. He said maybe Denver and accept theeir offer from 10 days ago. Vescey said he doesn't know what their offer was, maybe Kenyan Martin.

That is all Vescey said on the Artest trade topic

Shade
01-13-2006, 09:50 PM
You guys are pathetic "Aj's man" Were talking about Gilbert Arenas here...I bet Sarunas would of totally shut him down.

But like Buck said, Fred was guarding him anyhow. I quit paying attention in the 4th cuz I knew we were going to lose.

But all of you SAME people who get on other people for blaming jermaine...are JUST as ridiculous if not more for blaming AJ.

I called the entire sequence of events when the Pacers were down 7. I said we would come back and take the lead, then AJ would come in and lose it. Were were outscored 8-0 quickly when AJ re-entered.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:55 PM
I called the entire sequence of events when the Pacers were down 7. I said we would come back and take the lead, then AJ would come in and lose it. Were were outscored 8-0 quickly when AJ re-entered.

You do realize Jax came back in at the exact same time as AJ. Why isn't it Jax fault

Shade
01-13-2006, 09:56 PM
You do realize Jax came back in at the exact same time as AJ. Why isn't it Jax fault

Jack was on the floor when the Pacers came back initially.

Btw, the Pacers are now 9-9 this season in games w/o Artest.

Jon Theodore
01-13-2006, 09:58 PM
I think if anyone should ever be blamed it has to be JErmaine. He is the "leader."

Yet people get sooo upset when Jermaine is blamed, but EVERYBODY wants to blame a guy like AJ.

I think it's pretty ridiculous. Want to know who I blame? GILBERT ARENAS....he almost had 40 points. The wizards played better than us tonight, get over it.

Normally I am pissed off about loses, but Gilbert was on fire tonight.

indyblue47
01-13-2006, 09:58 PM
Well, 1st off, JO was having a so-so game, but still when the ball goes into him, he doesn't look for any lanes to pass to.

How many touches did the Wiz get when JO got the ball inside and went to make his move?

AJ SUCKS!!

I thought Cro did a decent job, and Runi made some great passes. Wonder what his assist # was. BUT, he still made some stupid moves late.

Freddy didn't have his game as he has lately, but still was impressive on some of his drives.

Foster looks like he's getting back to Feisty mode.

AJ sucks!!

We need more penetration, instead of passing it in and waiting for JO, or standing around looking for the "3"!!!!!!!:censored:

Shade
01-13-2006, 10:04 PM
I think that none of you give the Wizards due credit. I dont even follow this team like that, but they are just a amazing team to try to figure out. They can go 10 games playing like absolute ****, and then turn it on and be an amazing defensive team for 2 or 3 games, and then they start sucking again.

Thus, they will henceforth be known as the Washington SJaxs.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 10:08 PM
So, what, should we just play Cabbage and Gill at point now? Or is this one of those "Cabbage 48" threads?

Shade
01-13-2006, 10:10 PM
So, what, should we just play Cabbage and Gill at point now? Or is this one of those "Cabbage 48" threads?

Don't re-insert AJ when the team is clearly playing better without him.

And if I ever have to watch him clang a bad shot at the end of the quarter again, I'm going to put a toaster through my TV screen. It's like Travis Best all over again, except AJ leaves enough time on the clock for the other team to come down and hit a three at the buzzer.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 10:22 PM
I thought the key tonight was the Wizard's improved defense. Our guys made mistakes, but they're never perfect, so I don't really give a damn about that tonight. I saw the Wizards do an excellent job of stripping our post players without fouling all night long, and that alone was the difference between a W and an L. Our offense was OK, but nothing more, and that's why we couldn't get it done early. Late, it was simply Gilbert Arenas hitting shots, while their D kept stripping the ball.

brichard
01-13-2006, 10:58 PM
It may interest some of you to check out the boxscore.

http://www.nba.com/games/20060113/WASIND/boxscore.html

AJ shot 50% and had no turnovers.

Sarunas had 3 turnovers.

I love watching Sarunas play. He makes assists sometimes that are just awesome to watch. But, he does get some TO's b/c of the risky passes he makes.

AJ did not have a bad game statistically, and I think he played pretty well. I remember a sequence when he penetrated to the basket and kicked it out for an open shot. He was 1-1 behind the arc. I just don't understand the taunts after a game like that. Sorry, you are going to have to find a different scapegoat tonight.

Personally I think "over passing" lost this game. There were what seemed like 40 times tonight where guys gave up 3 foot shots for yet another pass. Washington did play good defense, but we helped them out a bit by passing too much tonight.

I love the extra pass, but there is too much of a good thing. Case and point... tonight.

SoupIsGood
01-13-2006, 10:59 PM
But all of you SAME people who get on other people for blaming jermaine...are JUST as ridiculous if not more for blaming AJ.

Coming from the guy who made the infamous "Jermaine is the worst pacer ever" post. Right. :laugh:

SoupIsGood
01-13-2006, 11:02 PM
It may interest some of you to check out the boxscore.

http://www.nba.com/games/20060113/WASIND/boxscore.html

AJ shot 50% and had no turnovers.

Sarunas had 3 turnovers.

I love watching Sarunas play. He makes assists sometimes that are just awesome to watch. But, he does get some TO's b/c of the risky passes he makes.

AJ did not have a bad game statistically, and I think he played pretty well. I remember a sequence when he penetrated to the basket and kicked it out for an open shot. He was 1-1 behind the arc. I just don't understand the taunts after a game like that. Sorry, you are going to have to find a different scapegoat tonight.

Personally I think "over passing" lost this game. There were what seemed like 40 times tonight where guys gave up 3 foot shots for yet another pass. Washington did play good defense, but we helped them out a bit by passing too much tonight.

I love the extra pass, but there is too much of a good thing. Case and point... tonight.

I don't think you can mention this without saying that AJ had only two assists while Saras had seven.

It seems that most in this thread are upset that AJ was inserted at the end when Saras had us playing well. Rick does this often, and it completely kills the momentum.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 11:10 PM
Don't re-insert AJ when the team is clearly playing better without him.

Okay, so it is a Cabbage 48 thread. That's all you had to say.

SoupIsGood
01-13-2006, 11:13 PM
Okay, so it is a Cabbage 48 thread. That's all you had to say.

You must think that the team always plays better when Cabbage is in instead of AJ, if you think it is a Cabbage 48 thread. Glad to know you've finally seen the light.

Lord Helmet
01-13-2006, 11:17 PM
Okay, so it is a Cabbage 48 thread. That's all you had to say.
He's not saying to play him for the entire game, just down the stretch, when there is about 3-4 minutes to go. At least that's what I think.

There is no reason to take out one of your best playmakers and offensive players, when you need to score the ball in the closing minutes of a game.

Kegboy
01-14-2006, 12:36 AM
He's not saying to play him for the entire game, just down the stretch, when there is about 3-4 minutes to go. At least that's what I think.

There is no reason to take out one of your best playmakers and offensive players, when you need to score the ball in the closing minutes of a game.

Actually, his #1 reason why we lost was we fell behind every time AJ was in. Unless he wants Gill to play, then it sure sounds like he wants Cabbage to play 48.

brichard
01-14-2006, 08:28 AM
I don't think you can mention this without saying that AJ had only two assists while Saras had seven.

It seems that most in this thread are upset that AJ was inserted at the end when Saras had us playing well. Rick does this often, and it completely kills the momentum.


I just grow tired of the "AJ sucks" stuff. Saras was playing well and I think it is valid criticism of Carlisle to go away from something that was working. However, it is erroneous to state that AJ had a bad game, because he didn't.

AJ is never going to give the jaw dropping assists that you see from Saras or JT. He is also not going to wow you game after game with his 3 pt. shot, although he will have his games. And I will even go as far to say that he isn't a starting caliber PG on a good team. If it works, I don't mind it, but he is what he is.

He is a solid PG off the bench who can score and defend. People act like he is chump who should be playing JV ball and that is just wrong. Just b/c Saras may have had a special game does not mean that "AJ sucked." He actually played good ball and the statistics support it.

Unclebuck
01-14-2006, 09:10 AM
I just grow tired of the "AJ sucks" stuff. Saras was playing well and I think it is valid criticism of Carlisle to go away from something that was working. However, it is erroneous to state that AJ had a bad game, because he didn't.

AJ is never going to give the jaw dropping assists that you see from Saras or JT. He is also not going to wow you game after game with his 3 pt. shot, although he will have his games. And I will even go as far to say that he isn't a starting caliber PG on a good team. If it works, I don't mind it, but he is what he is.

He is a solid PG off the bench who can score and defend. People act like he is chump who should be playing JV ball and that is just wrong. Just b/c Saras may have had a special game does not mean that "AJ sucked." He actually played good ball and the statistics support it.


Thank you. Excellent post

Lord Helmet
01-14-2006, 04:55 PM
Actually, his #1 reason why we lost was we fell behind every time AJ was in. Unless he wants Gill to play, then it sure sounds like he wants Cabbage to play 48.
I guess I over looked that, while making the post.

I don't hate AJ as much as some, and I thought he played pretty well, actually. I just would have rather had Sarunas' offense at the end of the game.

Bball
01-14-2006, 07:20 PM
I do think Carlisle over-relies on AJ. You should put players into positions where they can excel... not be out of their comfort zone.

And you have to go with the hot hand.

Unfortunately I had to miss the game so have no idea how this all played out except what you all report.

I've already decided we play JO too much so it won't be a stretch to convince me Carlisle simply gave too many minutes, at the wrong time, to AJ.

-Bball

McKeyFan
01-14-2006, 09:01 PM
No, AJ didn't play that badly.

Saras did play well--and, IMO, was a key force behind the comeback and offensive momentum.

The mistake was that Rick played it safe. This team can't afford to do that. To win, this team is going to have to take some risks.

I believe that means using Saras down the stretch then with 7 assists and 3 turnovers rather than AJ with 2 assists and 0 turnovers.

No risk, no reward.

Rick is a control freak, and its time for him to do a little growing along with the players. But he is a young coach. Maybe something different will happen tonight.

McKeyFan

Lord Helmet
01-14-2006, 09:08 PM
I do think Carlisle over-relies on AJ. You should put players into positions where they can excel... not be out of their comfort zone.

And you have to go with the hot hand.

Unfortunately I had to miss the game so have no idea how this all played out except what you all report.

I've already decided we play JO too much so it won't be a stretch to convince me Carlisle simply gave too many minutes, at the wrong time, to AJ.

-Bball
Sarunas helped us get back in to the game. Then when there is about 3 minutes remaining he was took out for AJ's D, and that was the last we saw of him.

Rick does need to stop doing it. Just like Hicks has said countless times, we are wasting Sarunas.

But, all the crtics of Sarunas will always try to find some kind of flaw in his game, which is very annoying.

brichard
01-14-2006, 10:25 PM
Sarunas helped us get back in to the game. Then when there is about 3 minutes remaining he was took out for AJ's D, and that was the last we saw of him.

Rick does need to stop doing it. Just like Hicks has said countless times, we are wasting Sarunas.

But, all the crtics of Sarunas will always try to find some kind of flaw in his game, which is very annoying.


Well, when I point out flaws in Saras' game it is for a couple of reasons.

1. Hardly anybody else does. One would think he was Michael Jordan incarnate with some of the threads on him. He's a good player, but he deserves criticism just like everybody else.

2. Somebody has got to defend AJ. It is like being in a lockeroom on here where people just start bullying him to death.

I point out flaws in Saras game just to balance this forum out a bit. It is easy to like Saras because he does all of the fun things to watch. And quite frankly, I like watching him. :cool: His assist the other day in stride to Danny Granger was one of the best I have ever seen. Passing is probably my favorite part of the game of basketball and for that I am endeared to Saras.

I just want people to take a 12 step program where they can say "AJ had a good game" when he deserves it and "Saras stunk tonight" when he deserves it. I'm convinced AJ could go for 40 points and Saras could have 40 turnovers. I'd open a thread and it would say that "AJ was the blind squirrel that found a nut" and "Saras had a cold and that is why he played poorly."

:banghead:

SoupIsGood
01-15-2006, 02:02 AM
Well, when I point out flaws in Saras' game it is for a couple of reasons.

1. Hardly anybody else does. One would think he was Michael Jordan incarnate with some of the threads on him. He's a good player, but he deserves criticism just like everybody else.

2. Somebody has got to defend AJ. It is like being in a lockeroom on here where people just start bullying him to death.

I point out flaws in Saras game just to balance this forum out a bit. It is easy to like Saras because he does all of the fun things to watch. And quite frankly, I like watching him. :cool: His assist the other day in stride to Danny Granger was one of the best I have ever seen. Passing is probably my favorite part of the game of basketball and for that I am endeared to Saras.

I just want people to take a 12 step program where they can say "AJ had a good game" when he deserves it and "Saras stunk tonight" when he deserves it. I'm convinced AJ could go for 40 points and Saras could have 40 turnovers. I'd open a thread and it would say that "AJ was the blind squirrel that found a nut" and "Saras had a cold and that is why he played poorly."

:banghead:

This seems really silly to me. Why not post your own actual opinions instead of playing devil's advocate all the time?

Kegboy
01-15-2006, 09:53 AM
This seems really silly to me. Why not post your own actual opinions instead of playing devil's advocate all the time?

Because some of us want real basketball discussion, not fanboy "OMG, <insert player here> is without question the best the NBA has ever seen, and if you don't agree, you're not a real Pacers fan" crap.

Hicks
01-15-2006, 10:11 AM
And some of us get tired of being accused of something that isn't true.

SoupIsGood
01-15-2006, 11:10 PM
Because some of us want real basketball discussion, not fanboy "OMG, <insert player="" here=""> is without question the best the NBA has ever seen, and if you don't agree, you're not a real Pacers fan" crap. :lol2: :lol2:



Am I honestly supposed to beleive that? You are searching for real basketball discussion with your endlessly smartass tirade against anything Saras? Come on now!
</insert>

grace
01-16-2006, 12:43 PM
:lol2: :lol2:



Am I honestly supposed to beleive that? You are searching for real basketball discussion with your endlessly smartass tirade against anything Saras? Come on now!
</insert>

Did any of you ever think that if you didn't take the bait every flippin' time maybe he'd stop? And it's not a smartass tirade to point out that a player is not living up to the unrealistic expectations of some members of this board.

Hicks
01-16-2006, 01:03 PM
Did any of you ever think that if you didn't take the bait every flippin' time maybe he'd stop? And it's not a smartass tirade to point out that a player is not living up to the unrealistic expectations of some members of this board.

First of all, I don't look kindly on posters baiting others. I want as much harmony as possible (that's not to say everyone thinks the same; it's about the manner in which we disagree in which I take issue) on this board, and that is counter-productive at best.

Secondly, just because some people thought overly high of him doesn't justify an endless, annoying anti-Saras parade that's become as predictable as Carlisle's rotations, and at least as stale.

I like Saras. I don't think he's God/Jesus/Brian Boitano, I just like what he brings. So for me, I get sick and tired of the same spew every time from him or others that agree with him that feel the need to always play a verbal round of "Kick the Lithuanian".

If I want to enjoy what he brings, I have that right without someone bashing him in reply each time. If someone wants to criticise him, fine, just don't wait until it's a thread that started out praising the guy, or for God's sake at least keep do it without the hyperbole. There's criticism, and there's putting someone under the microscope just because you don't like him (or maybe the guy who brought him here?).

Lord Helmet
01-16-2006, 01:08 PM
I never expected Saras to be the next great PG, I knew he would be good, and he has been.

So to me, he's lived up to my hype....

SoupIsGood
01-16-2006, 04:30 PM
Did any of you ever think that if you didn't take the bait every flippin' time maybe he'd stop? And it's not a smartass tirade to point out that a player is not living up to the unrealistic expectations of some members of this board.


Ever think THAT's what I am complaining about? His constant attempts to bait people?


You don't have to be wrong or right to be a smartass.