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View Full Version : MAGGETTE DEAL OFF OF THE TABLE



Will Galen
01-12-2006, 11:59 PM
According to Sheryl Miller the Pacers doctors didn't pass Maggette.

TNT showed Ron Artest courtside at the Clippers-Cavs game. Sheryl Miller then came on the TV and gave the above report.

Fireball Kid
01-12-2006, 11:59 PM
really?

Young
01-13-2006, 12:00 AM
Thank goodness. Sorry but I just want Pietrus and AB so bad and Maggette's injury history scares me.

BTW: Maggette is still injured so..........................HOW THE HELL CAN HE PASS A PHYSICAL ANYWAYS?

Anthem
01-13-2006, 12:00 AM
Well, that's that. I'm not necessarily against getting Maggette, but I just worried about his health. Guess I'm not the only one.

NorCal_Pacerfan
01-13-2006, 12:00 AM
Yup. And Ronnie is hangin' at the Lakers' game.

Kstat
01-13-2006, 12:01 AM
I heard the same thing.

Cheryl said that Artest was in LA and actually visited with the Clippers.

Everythign was reportedly going well until Indiana doctors couldnt medically clear Magette, and then the deal was off.

sweabs
01-13-2006, 12:03 AM
:woot:

Great news. Although with our doctors, Maggette is likely to be suiting up tomorrow night at 100%. :devil:

pacerwaala
01-13-2006, 12:03 AM
I can never type fast enough to be the original poster! dang it! But this is what Cheryl reported -

Cheryl miller just reported on TNT that a deal - Ron for Corey Magette was on the table. Ron is at the Lakers vs Cleveland game in LA. The deal is now off the table because the Pacers doctors would not approve Corey Magette's medical condition. Ron has supposedly had some good talks with Mike Dunleavy also.

Steve Kerr's comment - Ron is not in LA to go to Disney World or Land

Hicks
01-13-2006, 12:03 AM
This sucks. We're being short-sided and it's killing me. No way we get a better talent than Maggette for Artest. Let him heal and enjoy him starting next season.

Well, at least we weren't crazy in thinking these new rumors felt different. It really WAS going on, and Ron really did go to LA to meet with the Clippers, the deal WAS on the table, but we said no. :suicide:

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:03 AM
DAMN IT, back to waiting until the damn deadline.

Suaveness
01-13-2006, 12:03 AM
Thank goodness....

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 12:04 AM
So, did anybody elses heart sink?

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:04 AM
This sucks. We're being short-sided and it's killing me. No way we get a better talent than Maggette for Artest. Let him heal and enjoy him starting next season.

Well, at least we weren't crazy in thinking these new rumors felt different. It really WAS going on, and Ron really did go to LA to meet with the Clippers, the deal WAS on the table, but we said no. :suicide:I agree and watch Walsh is going to trade Ron for some damn scrub because Corey is going to miss a month of basketball. Damn it I'm pissed. We BETTER get close to a Maggette player.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:05 AM
I guess I'm not ready to close the book on this just yet. We'll see.

sweabs
01-13-2006, 12:06 AM
So, did anybody elses heart sink?

Mine would have when we found out Maggette wouldn't be back until another few months.

And then he'd slowly become Tinsley's bench buddy for years to come.

Maybe it's because of guys like Bender and Tinsley, but I just cannot get excited for an injury-ridden guy that you cannot come to rely on.

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 12:06 AM
The Clips can always sweeten the deal somehow.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:06 AM
I don't believe our doctors to my knowledge have examined Corey Maggette as of yet. They have only looked at films. I don't know why we've not been allowed but I don't think we've actually seen him in person yet.

PacerFan31
01-13-2006, 12:06 AM
I guess I'm not ready to close the book on this just yet. We'll see.

I guess, things can change, but I don't see how in this case.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:08 AM
If the Pacers are refusing the deal it must mean they think Maggette has major foot problem. They would not call the deal off just for a foot injury that would keep him out for a month

PacersGuest
01-13-2006, 12:08 AM
Maggette could still be in it...the Pacers probably just want to wait his injury out some so they can get a better look at it and it's progress. They better not wait until he is too healthy, or else the Clippers might just go with him instead of Artest. Maggette is probably still the best fit given his age and contract and the ability to do a 1 for 1 deal.

Fireball Kid
01-13-2006, 12:09 AM
Man, getting Corey Maggette just seemed too good to be true.....

ghost
01-13-2006, 12:09 AM
LeBron just dunked on the fastbreak.
:-o

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 12:09 AM
Two threads, and the first person to spell Cheryl's name correctly is a Pistons fan?!

You people should be ashamed of youselves. :tsk:

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:09 AM
The trade is not over yet. Its just that we won't examine him until his hardwear is off his foot. It is easier for us to show Artest to them, as Artest won't be returning here. But it isn't so easy for them to show us Maggette until they are ok with Ron-Ron, and Maggette is presentable to a doctor. If I had to clear Mags I'd laugh at the person asking me, bc he's not in a position to get medical clearance at this time. And like I say, all weight bearing joints and limbs that are injured are potentially career ending. YOu'd want the guy to be examined before hand.

recap
01-13-2006, 12:10 AM
Isn't his cast supposed to come off in the next week or two. I thought that I read that he would be examined at that point to see if surgery were necessary. Maybe, we are waiting until then. Maybe, we are trying to squeeze a draft pick out of the Clippers.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:12 AM
If the Pacers are refusing the deal it must mean they think Maggette has major foot problem. They would not call the deal off just for a foot injury that would keep him out for a month

It absolutely doesn't mean that he has a major foot problem. It simply means that they can not rule out the fact that his foot problem maybe major. The chances it is major is somewhat slim. But when talking this kind of money slim isn't good enough. There is no way this trade is dead. You all are a bit overemotional and not being logical.

Outlaw
01-13-2006, 12:13 AM
This is the only reason I was NOT looking forward to this trade.Because the injury could worse than being reported to the media.

Then again it could that they will wait until closer to the deadline to see if he comes back by then and then pull the trigger.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 12:13 AM
This sucks. We're being short-sided and it's killing me. No way we get a better talent than Maggette for Artest. Let him heal and enjoy him starting next season.

Well, at least we weren't crazy in thinking these new rumors felt different. It really WAS going on, and Ron really did go to LA to meet with the Clippers, the deal WAS on the table, but we said no. :suicide:

A little voice just told me that this is just a ploy. We're trying to get them to throw Livingston in as compensation for us taking the chance with Mags. We'll then just forgo the physical.

Of course, the voice came from the general location of my ***, so take that for what you will. :blush:

Will Galen
01-13-2006, 12:14 AM
Walsh didn't say that the Maggette deal was off, just that there was no deal for Maggette. People could be right, we might be trying to get more in the deal.

Doug in CO
01-13-2006, 12:15 AM
This sucks. We're being short-sided and it's killing me. No way we get a better talent than Maggette for Artest. Let him heal and enjoy him starting next season.

Well, at least we weren't crazy in thinking these new rumors felt different. It really WAS going on, and Ron really did go to LA to meet with the Clippers, the deal WAS on the table, but we said no. :suicide:

Agree - seemed like a perfect fit to me - how is getting him - out for the year - worse than waiting for the summer????

Hope we get better than Corey - anxiety in high gear.

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:15 AM
I know I shouldnt have got so excited, now I'm sick AGAIN.

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 12:16 AM
I've never heard of a physical before a trade. Why should we believe the deal is off the table? What kind of team would send a player for a physical with that player knowing he's going to be traded? Has that ever been done? How would they ever bring Corey back to the Clippers in this case? Would he ever want to be there after being "almost traded" and knowing it?

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:16 AM
Can we throw in Tinsley if they add Linvingston

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:17 AM
I've never heard of a physical before a trade. Why should we believe the deal is off the table? What kind of team would send a player for a physical with that player knowing he's going to be traded? Has that ever been done? How would they ever bring Corey back to the Clippers in this case? Would he ever want to be there after being "almost traded" and knowing it?



Sean Elloitt was traded for Horry, and the deal was later rescinded. Wasn't that it. Kstat will know. My memory is not what it used to be

Outlaw
01-13-2006, 12:18 AM
Can we throw in Tinsley if they add Linvingston

Now we have a deal....:D

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:18 AM
The physical is the last thing to occur before any trade goes down.

Isaac
01-13-2006, 12:19 AM
If this deal doesn't happen, then Donnie better have something really good in the works. If we reject this deal and end up trading him for junk... I will be calling for Donnie's head, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

This is an enormous mistake IMO, and puts a lot of pressure on Donnie to get a very good deal done.

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:19 AM
This is going to get Maggette pissed lol. Now the guy knows the Clippers tried to move him. Something to laugh about.

sweabs
01-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Can we throw in Tinsley if they add Linvingston

Yeah! Maybe Livingston can beat Tinsley's records for DNP's on the bench...and he'll have his buddy Maggette by his side too.

It would never happen, and I think we need to move on - look elsewhere.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 12:19 AM
All that says to me is the x-rays, etc. alone were enough to scare them away.

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:19 AM
If this deal doesn't happen, then Donnie better have something really good in the works. If we reject this deal and end up trading him for junk... I will be calling for Donnie's head, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

This is an enormous mistake IMO, and puts a lot of pressure on Donnie to get a very good deal done.You are damn right you wont be alone.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:21 AM
If this deal doesn't happen, then Donnie better have something really good in the works. If we reject this deal and end up trading him for junk... I will be calling for Donnie's head, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

This is an enormous mistake IMO, and puts a lot of pressure on Donnie to get a very good deal done.


yes but what if Corey has to have major foot surgery and is very slow to recover and is injury prone his whole career, should DW still be fired

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:21 AM
The Pacers wouldn't be able to get medical insurance on a player if he weren't able to pass a physical exam. So it has to occur prior to consummation of a trade. At University of Kentucky, we can't insure a player until he's passed the exam. Otherwise, he doesn't get a scholarship.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:22 AM
I'll believe the deal is off when I read Vescey's coumn in the morning

Good night

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:22 AM
If this deal doesn't happen, then Donnie better have something really good in the works. If we reject this deal and end up trading him for junk... I will be calling for Donnie's head, and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

This is an enormous mistake IMO, and puts a lot of pressure on Donnie to get a very good deal done.

Why would you call for his head? B/C he couldn't clear a patient/player before the trade and so didn't trade for him?

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:23 AM
You know I'm not so pissed about this what if this guy has a Bender type thing, and is never able to recover then I would be even more pissed. If the Pacers thought the injury was real bad then good for them for not doing the deal. We wouldnt have no use for a guy if he cant play no matter how much talent he has.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 12:23 AM
This is an enormous mistake IMO, and puts a lot of pressure on Donnie to get a very good deal done.

Hey, Wendy's is still offering a #6. They're really high on him.

sweabs
01-13-2006, 12:25 AM
Hey, Wendy's is still offering a #6. They're really high on him.

Who wouldn't be? #6 just brings a flair to the game every single night. Almost like it's on fire!!!

Mmmmm - Spicy Chicken.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:25 AM
All that says to me is the x-rays, etc. alone were enough to scare them away.

As I told Mark Boyle a few months ago regarding his back, it doesn't always mean anything looking at films - you have to look at the actual patient. If he doesn't have pain and is able to operate, the films mean virtually nothing. But that said, if his films are outstandingly bad, then yes, that could scare someone. But the bottom line is that Maggette has to be healthy to be examined.

Can anyone name a player who was injured and traded at the same time in recent history?

Isaac
01-13-2006, 12:27 AM
Hey, Wendy's is still offering a #6. They're really high on him.

That's a relief, maybe we can get them to biggie size it if we throw in Gill?

sweabs
01-13-2006, 12:27 AM
Can anyone name a player who was injured and traded at the same time in recent history?

Alonzo Mourning. Poor Raptors fans...but at least he was legitimately injur...............oh wait.

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 12:27 AM
Yeah I couldn't call for Donnie's head on this one. We have enough injury problems as it is. I say if it takes time to get this particular deal done, only to find out it's not a good idea then I'd agree with that choice. Now if we end up with garbage in the end, THEN I'll be mad...

Anthem
01-13-2006, 12:28 AM
This is going to get Maggette pissed lol. Now the guy knows the Clippers tried to move him.
Why would he be pissed? I'd think he'd be excited.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 12:29 AM
That's a relief, maybe we can get them to biggie size it if we throw in Gill?

Stop being such a fanboy. No way they'd go for that. :shakehead

Hicks
01-13-2006, 12:29 AM
Clipper fans claiming to be in the know said earlier today Bird (probably Walsh) said no after they found out he was going to be out longer than they wanted. That's what I am going to assume is the truth unless proven otherwise.

It's a shame.

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:30 AM
Why would a player be excited about his team wanting to move him and then the trade being denied and he has to stay with them.

Isaac
01-13-2006, 12:30 AM
Yeah I couldn't call for Donnie's head on this one. We have enough injury problems as it is. I say if it takes time to get this particular deal done, only to find out it's not a good idea then I'd agree with that choice. Now if we end up with garbage in the end, THEN I'll be mad...

That's exactly what I said. We can't turn down a player like Corey and end up with junk. If we wait it out and give him a physical with the cast off, and think he won't be able to perform like he has before in his career, then it'll be more acceptable.

If right now is the end of the deal and we don't hear about it again, then we turn around and trade him for garbage... :suicide:

Outlaw
01-13-2006, 12:30 AM
Anybody get the feeling we will hear LAKER FANS soon.:-o With more Kwame & junk trade proposals.:(

Frank Slade
01-13-2006, 12:31 AM
A little voice just told me that this is just a ploy. We're trying to get them to throw Livingston in as compensation for us taking the chance with Mags. We'll then just forgo the physical.

Of course, the voice came from the general location of my ***, so take that for what you will. :blush:

Yeah that would not surprise me....we shall see...

Isaac
01-13-2006, 12:32 AM
Stop being such a fanboy. No way they'd go for that. :shakehead

You don't think so? Maybe we can throw in Latrell Spreewell in a sign and trade. If they're willing to take on Ron, they'll take Spree too right?

Only problem is, the salaries don't match, they'd have to send us Matthew who has worked the cash register for 3 years there.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 12:33 AM
Clipper fans claiming to be in the know said earlier today Bird (probably Walsh) said no after they found out he was going to be out longer than they wanted. That's what I am going to assume is the truth unless proven otherwise.

It's a shame.

Well, an argument can be made that if he's not gonna be available anyway, we might as well wait until the deadline to see if a better deal comes along.

But then, the flip side is that LA could change their mind by then. :(

Doug in CO
01-13-2006, 12:33 AM
Clipper fans claiming to be in the know said earlier today Bird (probably Walsh) said no after they found out he was going to be out longer than they wanted. That's what I am going to assume is the truth unless proven otherwise.

It's a shame.

At this rate Maggette will be playing before Artest does.

You have a guy under a reasonable contract several years out.

I am a win now guy - and this seems to be short sighted.

(Did David Craig evaluate the x-rays) :laugh:

Anthem
01-13-2006, 12:34 AM
Back to the Golden State deal, I guess...

Come on, Mully! Throw in a pick!

Doug in CO
01-13-2006, 12:36 AM
Back to the Golden State deal, I guess...

Come on, Mully! Throw in a pick!

Back to narrowing down you mean

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:36 AM
Back to the Golden State deal, I guess...

Come on, Mully! Throw in a pick!I dont know why the hell they are not doing Pietrus-Biedrins and Chaney deal, it looks very good to me.

Kegboy
01-13-2006, 12:36 AM
You don't think so? Maybe we can throw in Latrell Spreewell in a sign and trade. If they're willing to take on Ron, they'll take Spree too right?

Only problem is, the salaries don't match, they'd have to send us Matthew who has worked the cash register for 3 years there.
Matthew is so overrated. Sure he's quick with the change, but he's just incapable of inputting custom orders. How many times do I have to say, "no tomato", or "honey mustard sauce". I don't want him anywhere near our team.


And, now that I've driven that analogy into the ground, :goodnight:

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 12:37 AM
Back to narrowing down you meanOf course that too still 14-15 teams have to be narrowed down and then we have to see which deal is real.

Isaac
01-13-2006, 12:38 AM
So, we aren't dealing with Wendy's I guess.

I'm disappointed, I'm off to bed, I'll dream about trades for Rashard Lewis and Shane Battier, and Lamar Odom, and Corey Maggette and...

I'm sure I'll wake up and we'll have traded him for Jalen Rose.

:cry:

Hoop
01-13-2006, 12:40 AM
Hey, Wendy's is still offering a #6. They're really high on him.Cool, is that the one with a partial finger in it.

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 12:40 AM
Let's get real for a second here. Donnie said (and I know nobody listens to him) he was narrowing things down to make the best deal for our team. Should we really believe that this is the ONLY deal he had on the table? I'm sure a guy with Donnie's experience would have at least 2 other backup plans to fall back on just in case this one didn't pan out. Hence his "We don't have a deal for Maggette" statement.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:42 AM
Is that reference to the missing finger tip from Boston's high school turned rookie? So that's where that finger ended up... not in the chili.

Doug in CO
01-13-2006, 12:43 AM
Let's get real for a second here. Donnie said (and I know nobody listens to him) he was narrowing things down to make the best deal for our team. Should we really believe that this is the ONLY deal he had on the table? I'm sure a guy with Donnie's experience would have at least 2 other backup plans to fall back on just in case this one didn't pan out. Hence his "We don't have a deal for Maggette" statement.

We'll see

If he has backup deals - like you seem to think he does I would think it would happen soon

Or we are playing one huge game of poker with pocket 3's

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:43 AM
My druthers say that we'll examine Maggette when he's totally weight bearing and able to be examined.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 12:45 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2290451

SoupIsGood
01-13-2006, 12:48 AM
Ah, screw this

Maggette, as a player, was just what we needed. Rats

ghost
01-13-2006, 12:49 AM
LeBron DUNKED AGAIN.
:-o :-o :-o

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 12:49 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2290451


I don't wanna click that link for the fear that my heart will sink so far into my stomach that it'll end up in the toilet tonight.

PacerFan31
01-13-2006, 12:53 AM
My druthers say that we'll examine Maggette when he's totally weight bearing and able to be examined.

So your telling me theres a chance

http://images.art.com/images/-/Jim-Carrey---Dumb-Dumber--C10102378.jpeg

Harmonica
01-13-2006, 12:54 AM
It's a shame.

A shame he's injured? Or a shame that we pulled the plug on a trade for another injury-prone player?

Harmonica
01-13-2006, 01:00 AM
This is an enormous mistake IMO, and puts a lot of pressure on Donnie to get a very good deal done.

Puts a lot of pressure on Donnie? Why? He's already said he'll let Ron sit the entire season if he has to. Doesn't sound like a guy who's under a lot of pressure to me.

Lord Helmet
01-13-2006, 01:02 AM
So your telling me theres a chance

http://images.art.com/images/-/Jim-Carrey---Dumb-Dumber--C10102378.jpeg
Haha, great movie.

SoupIsGood
01-13-2006, 01:04 AM
Puts a lot of pressure on Donnie? Why? He's already said he'll let Ron sit the entire season if he has to. Doesn't sound like a guy who's under a lot of pressure to me.


Yeah and I bet the fans would just LOVE that decison. They'll probably be lining up outside his door in the mornings just to shout their cheers of affection towards him as he steps out to get the paper.

Jermaniac
01-13-2006, 01:09 AM
Puts a lot of pressure on Donnie? Why? He's already said he'll let Ron sit the entire season if he has to. Doesn't sound like a guy who's under a lot of pressure to me.If he isnt going to trade Ron this season then he should quit. What the hell is he doing wasting his time then.

Doug in CO
01-13-2006, 01:12 AM
Puts a lot of pressure on Donnie? Why? He's already said he'll let Ron sit the entire season if he has to. Doesn't sound like a guy who's under a lot of pressure to me.

At this point choosing between the two being Pacers property and out for the season I take Maggette - at least he would be in uniform next year.

Pacesetter
01-13-2006, 01:13 AM
Mine would have when we found out Maggette wouldn't be back until another few months.

This is what would happen if the Pacers front office allowed itself to be hurried into a deal because of media and fan pressure to get a deal done.

Pacerized
01-13-2006, 01:19 AM
Unless his injury would likely effect his career, I'd want to do this trade. If Maggette could still return to full form next season, we'd be getting the best possible trade for the future. Who's to say one of the G.S. guys, or some future pick ever pans out to be as good as Maggette.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 01:20 AM
1. Trade value is highest at draft time.

2. There is no guarantee that Maggette will play next year.

3. I'm telling you there IS A CHANCE, if Maggette has his cast off pre-trade deadline and the Clippers still think that Artest would be beneficial at that time, moreso than a healthier Maggette. But if Mags isn't going to have his cast off until for a few more weeks, the trade deadline will have passed. So I can find out easily from my friends up at OrthoIndy about that, I think, tomorrow.

After thinking this thing out, and given the impending trade deadline, this comes down to when the cast comes off.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 01:21 AM
Again, every foot/knee/hip/axial spine injury is potentially career ending.

Pacesetter
01-13-2006, 01:23 AM
Quote from Jermaine O'Neal: That's a bridge you cannot cross, when you start talking about playing with other players and playing for other teams."

- espn.com

Amen brother, Amen!!!! :cool:

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 01:26 AM
3. I'm telling you there IS A CHANCE, if Maggette has his cast off pre-trade deadline and the Clippers still think that Artest would be beneficial at that time, moreso than a healthier Maggette. But if Mags isn't going to have his cast off until for a few more weeks, the trade deadline will have passed. So I can find out easily from my friends up at OrthoIndy about that, I think, tomorrow.

After thinking this thing out, and given the impending trade deadline, this comes down to when the cast comes off.

As you said this, I remembered what the article you posted said:

"The Clippers, sources said, will have to wait up to a month for the removal of Maggette's cast to determine if the 26-year-old can be reactivated or if an ongoing tendon problem will require season-ending surgery. Indiana, as a result, has elected not to pursue the deal, even though Maggette -- a rugged scorer known for getting to the free-throw line --- had been near the top of its wish list since the Pacers decided last month that they would honor Artest's public request to be traded"

This tells me they definitely plan on getting a deal done before the deadline and actually had a backup plan to Maggette.

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 01:28 AM
Mark Stevens speaking for Artest. Says something was "flirted with" between the Pacers and Clippers. Ron, is looking sooo obvious and trying not to be noticed ROFL

Lord Helmet
01-13-2006, 01:29 AM
Mark Stevens speaking for Artest. Says something was "flirted with" between the Pacers and Clippers. Ron, is looking sooo obvious and trying not to be noticed ROFL
Ron gave a shoutout to Naptown!

OMGZ!!!11111

:laugh:

Evan_The_Dude
01-13-2006, 01:29 AM
Fine Ron now! He's breaking the dress code!!!

Harmonica
01-13-2006, 01:33 AM
Yeah and I bet the fans would just LOVE that decison. They'll probably be lining up outside his door in the mornings just to shout their cheers of affection towards him as he steps out to get the paper.
I heard he has a sniper permanently stationed on the roof of his house to keep kooks like yourself and Doug in OH away.

Chambizzle
01-13-2006, 01:35 AM
yay.. bring on golden state's scraps!!!

weeee!

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 01:44 AM
As you said this, I remembered what the article you posted said:

"The Clippers, sources said, will have to wait up to a month for the removal of Maggette's cast to determine if the 26-year-old can be reactivated or if an ongoing tendon problem will require season-ending surgery. Indiana, as a result, has elected not to pursue the deal, even though Maggette -- a rugged scorer known for getting to the free-throw line --- had been near the top of its wish list since the Pacers decided last month that they would honor Artest's public request to be traded"

This tells me they definitely plan on getting a deal done before the deadline and actually had a backup plan to Maggette.

There might be lots of gesturing and motioning going on, you can never say. But when is the trade deadline? If he's got that on for a month, then things won't look good bc I think the deadline is close upon us.

I'm not sure how much of this might be posturing. I think it makes DW look good in the sense that it shows the potential value of Ron and the fact that the P's have the cajones to reject the deal.

indytoad
01-13-2006, 01:54 AM
Great avatar Ev.

IndyToad
Contributing absolutely nothing

CableKC
01-13-2006, 02:01 AM
I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel.....yep....a light....no wait....its not a imminent trade....its yet another near-death experience waiting for this Artest thingie to end. . :hissyfit: :censored:

Suaveness
01-13-2006, 02:02 AM
You know, I just am going to wait until whoever gets traded here in fact does get traded. I don't really feel like getting caught up in these rumors.

PacerMan
01-13-2006, 02:10 AM
This sucks. We're being short-sided and it's killing me. No way we get a better talent than Maggette for Artest. Let him heal and enjoy him starting next season.

Well, at least we weren't crazy in thinking these new rumors felt different. It really WAS going on, and Ron really did go to LA to meet with the Clippers, the deal WAS on the table, but we said no. :suicide:


It's a GM's job to win now. Don't think you can fault them for trying to do that. Somebody that can help this year could put us closer.....

CableKC
01-13-2006, 02:10 AM
You know, I just am going to wait until whoever gets traded here in fact does get traded. I don't really feel like getting caught up in these rumors.
Like you have a choice to not get caught up in the rumors.....none of us here have a choice.....ever since this whole artest thing started......coming to PD is addictive....you check every 5 minutes hoping something changed since the last time you checked......its like crack.

Wait a sec....am I the only one that does this continually?

GetOdom
01-13-2006, 02:23 AM
What did I tell you guys? I heard it myself on the radio...

microwave_oven
01-13-2006, 02:32 AM
All this talk about the #6 at Wendy's has to stop. I'm getting very hungry.

rexnom
01-13-2006, 03:22 AM
How about this? Just wait until Maggette is healthy enough to really be examined and just pray it's before the deadline. I agree with the notion that that might be what's happening. The stalling might even persuade the Clips to thrown in other players...

DG-33
01-13-2006, 07:00 AM
I agree with those who say it's not 100% dead.
Remember, the Pacers can take their sweet time in making a deal, since they'll be waiting several weeks anyways. It's best for them to wait a few weeks, maybe even a month, then check back on Maggettes foot. In the meantime, they can keep taking offers.
Or they could be 100% done with it, afraid Maggette is the next Grant Hill or Jonathan Bender.

We'll see.

By the way, I actually kinda like all this trade talk. It makes checking out the boards on a dialy basis interesting.

Kaufman
01-13-2006, 07:49 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060112/bs_usatoday/fastfoodstepsupvaluemenus

RWB
01-13-2006, 08:35 AM
Again, every foot/knee/hip/axial spine injury is potentially career ending.

Over a foot? Something like that could be career ending? You're a crazy man. ;)



Maybe all we need to do is reflect on the past. Ask Rik Smits if a foot problem may change a career.


We do not need another Bender and I believe this team can not afford another Bender blunder.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 08:45 AM
A shame he's injured? Or a shame that we pulled the plug on a trade for another injury-prone player?

Neither. Injury prone or not, we wanted him. So it's not that. The only reason we said no was that he couldn't help us this season. And that's silly and short-sighted. This guy was the best we could have asked for, and it would send Ron to what will soon be another NBA Hell again, in the West no less.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 08:50 AM
It's a GM's job to win now. Don't think you can fault them for trying to do that. Somebody that can help this year could put us closer.....

Normally I would agree, but this season's chances for a title ended, again, with Ron not playing anymore. There's no guaruntee CM would NOT be ready next year, in fact it's much more likely than not he WILL be, and usually Walsh is good at seeing the big picture. Yet now we're wrapped up in the here and now? After historically making deals that look to the future, and not for today. Normally I get tired of that, but this was one of the times that was the right thing to do, and we said no.

RWB
01-13-2006, 08:50 AM
Neither. Injury prone or not, we wanted him. So it's not that. The only reason we said no was that he couldn't help us this season. And that's silly and short-sighted. This guy was the best we could have asked for, and it would send Ron to what will soon be another NBA Hell again, in the West no less.

Hicks, when they're talking Maggette may need a screw in the foot to fix the problem.....then there is a problem and not limited to just this season.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 08:54 AM
Hicks, when they're talking Maggette may need a screw in the foot to fix the problem.....then there is a problem and not limited to just this season.

Hey, it could be. And if that's true, then fine, it might be the right call. But I can't help but feel that we've let an opportunity slip here.

bread
01-13-2006, 08:58 AM
According to the article in the Star he has a separated ligament in his foot. Maybe Kaufman can explain the possiblities on that but it does not sound good to me.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones that don't happen.

RWB
01-13-2006, 09:00 AM
Hey, it could be. And if that's true, then fine, it might be the right call. But I can't help but feel that we've let an opportunity slip here.

I feel your frustration my friend, we all do. I agree if it takes the rest of the season to heal up then great. When they start (maybe only a rumor) talking about having to put in a screw that is not good.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 09:03 AM
Sometimes the best deals are the ones that don't happen.

You know, I said that all the time a couple years back...:censored:

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:04 AM
For those that are upset, wouldn't you be the first one complainiong about "why did the Pacers trade for an injury prone guy who had a documented foot problem. Did we not learn from the Bender situation"

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:04 AM
For those that are upset, wouldn't you be the first one complainiong about "why did the Pacers trade for an injury prone guy who had a documented foot problem. Did we not learn from the Bender situation"

bread
01-13-2006, 09:11 AM
If Mags were healthy I would be all for this deal. But as many have said, we have to be a little gun shy about players that have shown to be, shall we say, less than durable.

Next!

Hicks
01-13-2006, 09:13 AM
For those that are upset, wouldn't you be the first one complainiong about "why did the Pacers trade for an injury prone guy who had a documented foot problem. Did we not learn from the Bender situation"

If it turns out he's that hurt, and will never be the same again, OK. I'm only saying if it's just a matter of him not helping us right away, it's a mistake.

brichard
01-13-2006, 09:31 AM
Clipper fans claiming to be in the know said earlier today Bird (probably Walsh) said no after they found out he was going to be out longer than they wanted. That's what I am going to assume is the truth unless proven otherwise.

It's a shame.

1. I will be extremely surprised if this is true. Bird and Walsh have been very patient at GM's. This method of management just isn't their M.O. I'm pretty sure the information source on this is erroneous. They've already said they'll wait until the summer, so does this really make sense?

2. I can't believe how some people are throwing caution to the wind on injuries. Have we learned nothing from the past 2 years about how awful it is to have frequently injured players?

3. I predict those ticked off at Walsh for not making this trade would have been the same people ridiculing him for acquiring one more fellow who spends more time on the IR than on the court.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 09:36 AM
You're the second person to accuse me of #3, and I can promise you I would not be.

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 09:38 AM
I'm only saying if it's just a matter of him not helping us right away, it's a mistake.

From what I'm reading Maggette is most likely done for the season. Let's assume that is correct. Are you willing to still do the trade. Of course we don't know what else is available. What if the Warriors decided to sweeten their offer a little. The Warriors are going nowhere fast right now, they need to make a change if they want to make the playoffs this season.

I guess we need to see how this all plays out in the next few weeks.

I do wonder what the T-Wolves, Warriors, Nuggets, and Lakers were doing/thinking as they had to know the Pacers almost traded Ron to the Clips. Now the other teams know what the Pacers want.

Hicks
01-13-2006, 09:42 AM
When we pursued him, we obviously knew he was going to be injured for a while. So that means the original intent of the trade was to get something that would help us in the future, and not the short term.

So the doctors must have seen something in the foot that gave them enough pause to not recommend taking this guy at any cost.

It makes sense. I hope that's the case.

Unclebuck, if it were only a matter of him being out for the season, and healthy by training camp, then the trade should have been made. But it makes sense that it was looking worse than that. I could see it either way.

Grant
01-13-2006, 09:43 AM
Let him heal and enjoy him starting next season.

Why are we still discussing Bender? Oh....we're not?.....oops....my bad....carry on.



Seriously, what is the rush? If he is injured, he doesn't help us now. Plus, every GM knows it was a legit offer, and someone has another 5 weeks to offer something better. If it doesn't get better, look at Cory in another 4 weeks.

naptownmenace
01-13-2006, 09:50 AM
The Pacers wouldn't be able to get medical insurance on a player if he weren't able to pass a physical exam. So it has to occur prior to consummation of a trade. At University of Kentucky, we can't insure a player until he's passed the exam. Otherwise, he doesn't get a scholarship.


Wow. I'm learning something new each time you post. Any other nuggets of info you can share with us about sports physicals? In a situation like this, when a player in a proposed trade has an injury, what do you look for to make a determination?

RWB
01-13-2006, 09:51 AM
The way things are going I could see the next thing out of the Atlanta Constitution claim Al was going to Indy with Maggette going to the Hawks.

Napptown
01-13-2006, 09:57 AM
Does anyone else find it interesting that Pietrus was supposed to come back and play early this week and all of a sudden Mully decided to hold him out another game or two. I still think the pacers are trying to get something done on that front. It has been 2 games since Pietrus was supposed to play and he still hasn't suited up.

Just a thought anyway.

Dunk-OMatic
01-13-2006, 11:26 AM
>>>>Originally Posted by Kaufman
>>>>The Pacers wouldn't be able to get medical insurance on a player >>>>if he weren't able to pass a physical exam. So it has to occur prior to >>>>consummation of a trade. At University of Kentucky, we can't insure >>>>a player until he's passed the exam. Otherwise, he doesn't get a >>>>scholarship.

Wow. I'm learning something new each time you post. Any other nuggets of info you can share with us about sports physicals? In a situation like this, when a player in a proposed trade has an injury, what do you look for to make a determination?

I think that info is inaccurate. The player gets insured with the CONTRACT - which, when he is traded, is technically "assigned" to another team. The insurance coverage stays in place. If I'm not mistaken, technically the contract is between the player and the NBA as well as with a team.

Therefore, Maggette would be currently insured when he signed his deal as a Clipper, and there would be no new insurance coverage needed.

Conclusion - this is not an insurance related issue

Its different in college where players are not traded from one college to another.

brichard
01-13-2006, 11:59 AM
You're the second person to accuse me of #3, and I can promise you I would not be.

Well, that last one wasn't necessarily directed exclusively at you. But those who ridicule Walsh's every move... you know who you are! :cool:

Unclebuck
01-13-2006, 12:01 PM
The Clippers being willing to offer Maggette now when 3 weeks ago they were not proves the point I've been making since 12/10, the offers will only gets better. For two reasons. 1) Certain teams will either have injuries or start to play bad. 2) certain other teams will raise their offers when they fear other teams they are competing against are close to acquiring Ron. Some teams might even bluff offers just to get teams to offer more.

Grant
01-13-2006, 01:11 PM
the offers will only gets better.

QFT

When the bidding picks up and this gets down to the wire, someone will overpay. I don't know what they will trade, or if we will even like the deal, but someone will give us more than they wanted. It may not be equal value, but we are not going to get hosed as some people think.

CableKC
01-13-2006, 01:52 PM
Neither. Injury prone or not, we wanted him. So it's not that. The only reason we said no was that he couldn't help us this season. And that's silly and short-sighted. This guy was the best we could have asked for, and it would send Ron to what will soon be another NBA Hell again, in the West no less.
I agree with you....AGAIN. Looking to contend this season is foolish....we have to look beyond this season. I would much rather acquire a player on the level of Maggette that is likely out for the rest of the season that can help us out in the next couple of seasons then acquire the crap that teams like the Lakers, Nuggets or the TWolves have to offer ( unless its a Pietrus/Biedrins/Cheaney/Draft pick deal from the Warriors ).

Seriously.....after seeing the Pistons DISMANTLE the NBA champs for their second meeting this season...the last time in the Alamodome ( no less ).....I really think that this season is pretty much done with. There is no trade that we can make this season that would make any difference for us against the Pistons. Maybe ....if all the planets align properly, we remain injury free, we don't make any stupid mistakes and God all of a sudden loves the Pacers ( which is a very tall order to fill )....we can make it to the ECF.....but given that the Pistons are pretty much unbeatable at this point.....I really don't think that there is any point to this season. This season......the Pistons are scary.....I mean Ron-Artest scary. The only real hope that we have is if they encounter a serious injury to one of their starters in April and the Playoffs.

I don't know about you.....but I packed it in for the entire season after Artest demanded a trade. We maybe competitive and good enough to beat mediocre .500+ teams....but when it comes to elite teams like Pistons, Heat, Spurs, Suns, Mavs and even the Cavs ( likely teams that we will face in the 2nd round to the Finals ).... I don't think we can beat any of them in a 7-game series....simply cuz we are not that good.

We need to look to the 2006 season and the future now cuz the 2005 season was pretty much ruined by Artest. If Maggette isn't tha answer...then fine.....but we have to look at this from the "future" perspective...not the here and now.

blanket
01-13-2006, 02:41 PM
If Maggette comes back -- whether it's this season or next -- and his play returns to form, then I will consider this a collosal mistake by the Pacers.

(That is, assuming we don't end up with someone better, like Paul Pierce).

Shade
01-13-2006, 04:10 PM
What did I tell you guys? I heard myself on the radio...

Fixed. ;)

timid
01-13-2006, 04:24 PM
I agree with you....AGAIN. Looking to contend this season is foolish....we have to look beyond this season. I would much rather acquire a player on the level of Maggette that is likely out for the rest of the season that can help us out in the next couple of seasons then acquire the crap that teams like the Lakers, Nuggets or the TWolves have to offer ( unless its a Pietrus/Biedrins/Cheaney/Draft pick deal from the Warriors ).

Seriously.....after seeing the Pistons DISMANTLE the NBA champs for their second meeting this season...the last time in the Alamodome ( no less ).....I really think that this season is pretty much done with. There is no trade that we can make this season that would make any difference for us against the Pistons. Maybe ....if all the planets align properly, we remain injury free, we don't make any stupid mistakes and God all of a sudden loves the Pacers ( which is a very tall order to fill )....we can make it to the ECF.....but given that the Pistons are pretty much unbeatable at this point.....I really don't think that there is any point to this season. This season......the Pistons are scary.....I mean Ron-Artest scary. The only real hope that we have is if they encounter a serious injury to one of their starters in April and the Playoffs.

I don't know about you.....but I packed it in for the entire season after Artest demanded a trade. We maybe competitive and good enough to beat mediocre .500+ teams....but when it comes to elite teams like Pistons, Heat, Spurs, Suns, Mavs and even the Cavs ( likely teams that we will face in the 2nd round to the Finals ).... I don't think we can beat any of them in a 7-game series....simply cuz we are not that good.

We need to look to the 2006 season and the future now cuz the 2005 season was pretty much ruined by Artest. If Maggette isn't tha answer...then fine.....but we have to look at this from the "future" perspective...not the here and now.

I agree with you and Hicks....

Grant
01-13-2006, 05:15 PM
Exhibit A: Grant Hill
Exhibit B: Jonathan Bender

They are saying that this guy may need a screw inserted into his foot. A screw! I think if the Pacers were sure that he would be back in 6 weeks they would pull the trigger. But I think they are understandably cautious about what could be damaged goods.

I think the Pacers should revisit this deal at the trade deadline. Give the guy his six weeks to heal. The Clips could pull the deal, but it would reflect badly on them.

Kaufman
01-15-2006, 02:13 PM
Wow. I'm learning something new each time you post. Any other nuggets of info you can share with us about sports physicals? In a situation like this, when a player in a proposed trade has an injury, what do you look for to make a determination?

Menace,

I can answer from an NCAA standpoint but I would presume the professional leagues are similar. The only thing is a lot more money involved professionally. Sorry for the late answer but have been busy with work lately and had a game yesterday.

Basically, when doing a sports physical you assess whether a player can perform in the here and now. If he can't, then he's automatically "flunked" the physical. It is difficult to get insurance on a player who you can not assess at full capacity - if a player hurts something in a similar location as a previous injury, the team and insurance company will contend that it was related to a previous injury and that the athlete shouldn't have been playing, or if he wanted to play, he's playing at his own risk. The player will contend it is a new injury. You can see the grey zone there - case in point - remember back to Terrell Owens last year and leg injury. HE most likely did sign an insurance waiver, and that kind of thing isn't uncommon, guys do do that in certain championship situations.

So further about physicals, a physician has to assess whether a player is putting himself at risk by participating. You look at things like hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the heart condition which has been fatal to so many athletes.

Heck the Steelers just scored on us.

I hope this answers some questions for you.

Kaufman.

Pacerized
01-15-2006, 07:40 PM
Seriously, what is the rush? If he is injured, he doesn't help us now. Plus, every GM knows it was a legit offer, and someone has another 5 weeks to offer something better. If it doesn't get better, look at Cory in another 4 weeks.

If we don't find the right player to help us this year before the deadline, I hope they take another look at Maggette. If his cast is off before Feg. 23rd., they may be able to make a better evaluation. I guess I'm a little afraid that we could've passed up on the player that would've been the perfect fit for this team without doing a major overhaul. A 2cd. scoring option that gets to the line, and hits his shots.

Kaufman
01-15-2006, 08:54 PM
From what I understand from my doctor buddies in Indianapolis, the Clip joint wants Artest right now bc they are of the belief that Maggette won't be of much help this season. Therefore, if Maggette is healing quickly, or well, it might very well be that the joint won't want to trade Maggette.

DG-33
01-16-2006, 08:24 PM
I still believe a deal with the Clippers involving Corey Maggette is alive. The question is, do the Clippers wait untill the trade deadline, continue playing mediocre, hope Indy gets no better offers by then, and then offer Maggette again, or do they go ahead and sweeten the pot with someone like Chris Wilcox in hopes of getting the deal done A.S.A.P.?
Here's about everything I've found of interest while browsing various Clippers message boards looking for new info.

This is from a guy named TrueLAFan on RealGM, he's a mod of the Clippers board, and has over 4,500 posts in nearly 5 years there, so he's respectable

A little bit of inside info … I was talking to a friend who had worked at Pacific Sports Medicine for several years. (He’s in practice in OC now.) He had worked with Odom, Dooling and a few other Clippers in the late 90s/early 2000s. The stuff he told me in the past was always 100% accurate…he was the first one to talk about how Lamar’s injury was worse than described, and what was going on in his rehab, etc. He still has plenty of contacts with rehab Doctors in L.A. Anyway, last night he told me, very specifically, that Corey Maggette did NOT have a physical and that his foot was not reexamined for a trade to Indiana or anywhere else. He also said it was “very unlikely” that the Pacers had received any medical information other than what we all know about…that he has a separated ligament in his foot. What my friend said was, “He’d either be examined by the trainers and specialists of the other team, or he’d be examined here. He wasn’t examined here, and people here would have known if someone else looked at him.”

Personally, I’ve kept pretty quiet about the whole Artest/Maggette thing because, well, I don’t want it to happen. But this info, to me, is interesting. The idea that the Artest/Maggette trade was “called off” because of a physical, or a second look at Corey’s foot, is apparently untrue. If a trade was close or turned down, it was for reasons other than announced. I’m not sure if that means we changed our minds, or Indiana thought they could get more, or if there were other factors involved. But my friend has been right about Clipper injury issues every time I’ve talked to him, and he was really emphatic about Corey’s injury not being reexamined or any sort of physical being given.Maggette Not Phased By Talk

Maggette not fazed by talk
By Joe Stevens Staff writer

LOS ANGELES - When the Clippers acquired Corey Maggette from the Orlando Magic in June 2000, the player heard the news in a place full of video games, talcum powder and automatic ball returns.
"In my first year, I didn't have an agent, and the way I heard I got traded was on the radio," Maggette said.

"I was in a bowling alley, bowling with my dad, and all of sudden, I hear, `The Magic trade Corey Maggette and Keyon Dooling to the Clippers.' So it's like, this time I knew something was going on. I felt better about it."

This time, Maggette was not traded, but at least he was keyed into the Clippers' dealings with the Indiana Pacers in an attempt to acquire controversial forward Ron Artest. Maggette says that after meeting with coach Mike Dunleavy on Saturday, he understands what transpired with the near deal and has no hard feelings about it.

"This is a business," he said. "And I know this is a business and you have to handle things professionally. Maybe this organization, if it would have went down, it is something that they were doing to try to better this team. I've been here six years, and I've been through all the bad times with the team. If it was good for the team or trying to make the team better, I was for it."

In earlier negotiations, the Pacers said they wanted Maggette for Artest, but the Clippers only offered Chris Wilcox and draft picks in a three-way trade that included the Atlanta Hawks' Al Harrington.

On Wednesday, Harrington told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he expected Maggette and Artest to be swapped, meaning that he was out of the deal with the Clippers offering Maggette for Artest.

As it turned out, the Pacers nixed the trade because they said they could not give the player medical clearance. Maggette is out with a separated ligament in his left foot, is expected to be out of a cast in three weeks and may play in six weeks.

The word is that the Pacers actually have a separate trade on the table that they consider better than acquiring Maggette. They still are expected to trade Artest by the Feb. 23 trade deadline.

joe.stevens@presstelegram.com


A little more from the ESPN boards, nothing really new but some might like to read it

TRADE TALK

Dunleavy finally had a discussion with Maggette regarding the proposed trade that would have sent him to the Indiana Pacers for Ron Artest, a deal that the Pacers rejected Wednesday because of the uncertainty of Maggette's return this season from his foot injury.

Dunleavy said he wanted to talk with Maggette, before a telephone conversation the two had Friday night.

Dunleavy and Maggette talked in person Saturday during the morning shootaround.

Maggette's comments following Thursday's practice suggested he was not happy at the way the situation was handled. But apparently the matter was smoothed over when he and Dunleavy finally spoke.

"I think it went very well," Dunleavy said. "Corey is one of the most professional guys you'd ever want to meet.''

Dunleavy declined to say whether trade talks with Indiana have died. Although the Pacers were most interested in a straight-up trade.

There might be some interest, from both sides, in a two-for-two trade, with the Clippers adding Chris Wilcox to their package and the Pacers including guard Fred Jones in theirs.

Jermaniac
01-16-2006, 08:40 PM
We better not trade Fred for Wilcox. Wilcox is horrible, the guy is inconsistent as they come. He sucks on offense, okay on defense. Nothing special, he has potential but so what.

GetOdom
01-16-2006, 08:43 PM
The Clipper deal is dead guys, let it go...

DG-33
01-16-2006, 08:51 PM
Wilcox just turned 23 in September, and he's been a decent backup PF so far in his career, But I'm not sure I'd give up Fred Jones for him in any deal with the Clippers. Maybe Anthony Johnson and/or our 1st round pick though.

Kaufman
01-16-2006, 08:54 PM
DG-33,

I reported that last week that Methodist Sports Medicine had not examined Maggette and only had reviewed his films (x-rays, MRI). According to my friends up there, the Pacers have requested repeat films in February. Whether or not the Clippers will cooperate is anyone's guess, but I do know that the request has been made to evaluate his healing.

As far as being evaluated by a sports physician, it would be rare that the patient (or player, more specifically) would be evaluated in complete until the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. The physical is often considered the consummation of a trade or collegiate signing in the NCAA. Like I alluded to in a previous post, its kind of like show and tell - look and see but don't touch.

CableKC
01-16-2006, 09:01 PM
The problem that I have with Wilcox is that he's gonna be a RFA.....and I doubt that we resign him. Even if we do...I would much rather resign Freddie.

Kaufman
01-16-2006, 09:06 PM
Do you think it is realistic that we'd be able to resign Jonesie?

DG-33
01-16-2006, 10:03 PM
From RealGM

I was watchin on NBALP on FSN Northwest and they said an article in one of the LA newspapers that the Maggette/Artest trade was "this close to happening" but the Clippers stepped in at the last second and turned it down, not the Pacers (http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=462490#). What do you guys think of this?


Do you think it is realistic that we'd be able to resign Jonesie?
Possible. I think he'll get no more than the MLE, but I'm not sure if the Pacers think thats too much to match.

Will Galen
01-16-2006, 10:11 PM
From RealGM

I was watchin on NBALP on FSN Northwest and they said an article in one of the LA newspapers that the Maggette/Artest trade was "this close to happening" but the Clippers stepped in at the last second and turned it down, not the Pacers. What do you guys think of this?



Damage control.

Kaufman
01-16-2006, 10:23 PM
My information, from a medical standpoint, is that the Pacers left it open but are not ready to complete the trade just yet. They want to see if his healing progresses.

So if the Clip Joint did say that it was them who cut it off, then I'd agree with Will, probably damage control.

Lbuckingham
01-16-2006, 10:56 PM
The Clippers being willing to offer Maggette now when 3 weeks ago they were not proves the point I've been making since 12/10, the offers will only gets better. For two reasons. 1) Certain teams will either have injuries or start to play bad. 2) certain other teams will raise their offers when they fear other teams they are competing against are close to acquiring Ron. Some teams might even bluff offers just to get teams to offer more.


I am not trying to be argumentative but we would not have traded bender a couple years ago for anything that was not proven....now we would trade him for anything....having more information always changes the outlook on a deal......If the Clippers recently found out (between the alleged 1st offer form the clips and the 2nd) that maggette had an injury that would never be "right", of course they would try to offer him up and get Artest basically for free.

Anthem
01-16-2006, 11:29 PM
Do you think it is realistic that we'd be able to resign Jonesie?
He's restricted. We'll match.

Kaufman
01-16-2006, 11:38 PM
Do we have the pockets to match though? Considering that our owners are preferring to keep us under or close to the cap? If there is a cap next year.

CableKC
01-17-2006, 12:39 AM
Do we have the pockets to match though? Considering that our owners are preferring to keep us under or close to the cap? If there is a cap next year.
I want to believe they will match.....but I don't think they will. Freddie is playing for a contract....if anything....he has been one of the more consistent Guards in the lineup since Tinsley has been out. He'll get a contract offer that will make the Pacers blink......that's what happened last season with JJ.....they offered more then what the Pacers were willing to match.....owners know this....and they'll do the same with Freddie.

Anthem
01-17-2006, 03:20 AM
He'll get a contract offer that will make the Pacers blink......that's what happened last season with JJ.....
Hardly. JJ got less than Fred gets right now. Nobody thought he'd get more than that, and I bet we'd have kept him if we hadn't landed Granger.

I can't imagine Fred getting a huge contract. Every team has a guy that can score in bunches and is too small to be a 2 but can't run the point. I don't think those guys are as good as Fred, but I also don't think GMs around the league are salivating at the thought of landing Fred Jones.

He won't get much of a raise. Mid-level exception? Please.

RWB
01-17-2006, 08:54 AM
I agree with Anthem and I believe if Freddie takes a steady pay increase at the top of 3, bottom of 4 million he will remain a Pacer.

If he can get a GM to pay over that then thanks Fred you were a good soldier.

Will Galen
01-17-2006, 09:09 AM
DG-33,

I reported that last week that Methodist Sports Medicine had not examined Maggette and only had reviewed his films (x-rays, MRI). According to my friends up there, the Pacers have requested repeat films in February. Whether or not the Clippers will cooperate is anyone's guess, but I do know that the request has been made to evaluate his healing.


Okay, this is probably why the Clippers are saying they called off the trade.

Explanation}The Pacers want repeat films, the Clippers say no, thus from their point of view they are the ones that decided there will be no trade.

blanket
01-17-2006, 10:47 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/383460p-325533c.html

No one knows when the Pacers will be whole again. O'Neal will miss another game or two with a bum ankle. Tinsley's return is anyone's guess. They turned down the chance to send Artest to the Clippers for Corey Maggette, owing to the fact that Maggette has a foot problem that could result in season-ending surgery. But after Artest reportedly had a productive two-hour meeting with Clips coach Mike Dunleavy in Los Angeles last week, word filtered back that the Clippers are trying to resuccitate the deal.

"It's not totally dead," said one Eastern Conference VP yesterday.

Whether the Clippers sweeten the deal enough to get Indiana to take an injured Maggette, when they clearly feel burned in never having gotten anything out of the oft-injured Jonathan Bender, we'll see. They could continue to hold out for the Warriors' Ike Diogu, the one young player who really has caught their fancy but who is not being made available by Golden State's Chris Mullin.
+++++++++++

this is what I've been saying

Unclebuck
01-17-2006, 10:59 AM
I've never thought the deal with the Clips was dead. Put on hold for awhile, perhaps, changed slightly, but dead, no it won't be dead until Artest is traded eslewhere.

rela
01-17-2006, 11:04 AM
well what about tinsley/artest/gill +1st for livingston/maggette/wilcox
would leave us with
(livingston/saras)/maggette/granger/wilcox/jo

well maybe we just get something like artest/johnson for maggete/wilcox +1st this would be great deal,too

DG-33
01-17-2006, 11:49 AM
Clippers wont move Livingston. They believe in their minds he's the next great point guard in the NBA, where truthfully I think due to his lack fo mass and strength, he'll always be on the injured list like Bender. I also heard rumors the Clippers turned down Livingston and Maggette for Pierce over the summer.

For Freddie Jones and possibly resigning him - Juan Dixon got a 3 year/$8.1M deal from the Blazers. That averages out to $2.7M per season. I think Fred will get a little more than that, I'd say somewhere from $3.5-$4M per season, which I think is matchable. He's been a major part of our team the past few years, and I don't think we should let him go unless he's majorly overpaid.

able
01-17-2006, 12:05 PM
Looking at what went on last year and the "size" of the free agent class this year I fear that FJ will command a lot more on the "open market" then you guys are suggesting.

If I look at NY or Denver or Dallas, I see a lot of players that we would not rank above Fred and that are not "big" men making well over 5 mio, heck look at Q-Rich starting this year at about 7.5 mio

Yes best of luck, but I feel he will at least get a max mid-level for 4 or 5 years somewhere

We are after all talking about a FA class that is lead by baby Al !

DG-33
01-17-2006, 12:24 PM
True, but Q's contract came after he averaged 17/6/2 as a 23-24 year old. He looked like he could one day challenge for an All-Star team, and was paid like that caliber of player. Fred on the other hand will be 27 when the FA market opens, and whiles hes been really solid for us, he's never put up those kind of numbers nor at this point does he have "future All-Star" potential like Q had.
I think something long the lines of 4 year/$16M is reasonable, and will be matched by the Pacers. And remember, we wouldn't be adding $4M to next years salary, we'd only be adding the difference between last years salary ($2.3M) and his new starting salary ($3.5M~) so it's not that big of a deal, particularly with Scot, Reggie, and hopefully Bender's contracts all coming off the books.

able
01-17-2006, 12:37 PM
Not to be a pain but Q-Rich is 1 year younger then Fred (and some parts of a month)

Fred Jones: In 14 starts in 2004-05, averaged 16.3 ppg, 4.1 rpg and 3.4 apg.


Lest we forget he comes of the bench for us, if some owner believes that Fred can produce those kind of numbers, then I certainly expect the price to rise, as I said, there's painfully little on the market this coming off-season.

CableKC
01-17-2006, 01:27 PM
I agree with Anthem and I believe if Freddie takes a steady pay increase at the top of 3, bottom of 4 million he will remain a Pacer.

If he can get a GM to pay over that then thanks Fred you were a good soldier.

Didn't we believe the same thing when it came to JJ? Who would pay JJ a decent contract that the Pacers can't match?

Well....I have no idea what the price limit was for JJ that the Pacers weren't wililng to pay....but if all we got was some $$$ and a useless 2nd round draft pick for JJ....then I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens for Freddie.....especially with the way that Freddie is playing now and with the 2006 Free Agent class not having any real standouts.

Of the 28 teams out there....there has to be a team out there that is looking for a solid backup SG that can score and defend that has deep enough pockets to offer Freddie something that the Pacers won't be willing to match. I seriously believe that Freddie will be involved in a S&T during the Offseason OR be involved in a trade deadline deal.

I want to believe that Freddie will be a Pacer for the next couple of years....but...realistically...I don't think he will be.

Slick Pinkham
01-17-2006, 01:47 PM
Didn't we believe the same thing when it came to JJ? Who would pay JJ a decent contract that the Pacers can't match?
(snip)
I want to believe that Freddie will be a Pacer for the next couple of years....but...realistically...I don't think he will be.

I agree.

JJ got chump change from Phoenix:
$2,400,000
$2,652,000
$2,904,000
$3,156,000 (player option)

Fred will command more.

I can only believe that the Pacers thought JJ was readily replaceable. Do they think similarly about Fred? If the price is even higher, I bet that they do.

Unfortunately.

RWB
01-17-2006, 01:49 PM
KC and Able, your probably right, someone will over pay for Freddie's services. Lets hope it's not the PAcers. I like Freddie, but he is a backup. Keep the money and hopefully apply it at some point to a player thats going to be a starter.

RWB
01-17-2006, 01:53 PM
It was my understanding there was never an attempt to sign JJ. We simply were over the cap and Walsh was not going to pay any more especially when he was trying to cut payroll in an attempt to resign Dale.

CableKC
01-17-2006, 01:57 PM
It was my understanding there was never an attempt to sign JJ. We simply were over the cap and Walsh was not going to pay any more especially when he was trying to cut payroll in an attempt to resign Dale.
Outside of the Dale situation.....that's the same situation that we are in with Freddie.

The only hope that I have is if we do get enough salary relief from the Artest trade to allow the Pacers to at least make an attempted run at Freddie.

But I agree with most that he would be a very solid 25mpg backup SG....cuz I would much rather have him playing backup SG then Sarunas.

DG-33
01-17-2006, 02:30 PM
Fred is a lot better than James. Pacers know this. They wont give him up as easily.

Scot Pollard, Reggie Miller, and Eddie Gill all expire, which is $13,245,483 in expiring salary. Even if we resign Fred for what I suggested earlier, our cap next year is still $11M less than this year. After the end of next year, Austin Croshere and Jonathan Bender come off the books, which is an additional $17,370,000. So by the end of next year, the Pacers have $30,615,483 coming off the books, and that's not even counting Fred Jones. Bottomline - our short term salary cap is manageable, this season is our peak, and it will only go down from here on out meaning provided Donnie doesn't make any more "Crosheres" or "Benders" our salary cap is in great shape.

Now, the thing thats making this all iffy is the Artest trade. If we get back someone with a large salary and have to give up Pollards contract as filler, out capspace next year will remain about the same as this year, which makes resigning Fred a little more iffy. A deal that would work wonders for the Pacers would be Artest, Croshere, and Gill to the Lakers for Lamar Odom and Devean George. This deal would trim an addtional $4,221,000 of salary off next years cap, and make resigning Fred almost a given (provided he wasn't massively overpaid).

But anyways, bottonline - our cap is under control, and Donnie knows this, and he wont let a player who can be as valuable as Fred can be go without a fight.

Dunk-OMatic
01-17-2006, 02:37 PM
Whats all so special about Fred Jones? I'm a Mavs fan, and I watch him play a bit here and there and I dont see anything that catches my eye. I look at the stats, wondering if I have missed something, but dont see anything there either. I look at his heighth (a short 2-guard) and experience, to see if there is a mass of upside looming, but dont see any indicators.

He looks like "just a guy" to me. If you have him, and he fits and knows your system and gets along and you have a place for him, in the interest of continuity and to have some CHEAP depth, you give him a MODEST contract and keep him.

But I dont see a bidding war looming by other teams eager to sign him.

What, if anything, am I missing?

DG-33
01-17-2006, 02:53 PM
What, if anything, am I missing?
Well since your a Mavs fan, I'd say defense and a big man who isnt an overrated wannabe 2-guard. :-p

Nah, but honestly, Fred plays beyond his stats, which themselves are low due to starting off the season like pure crap. His last 10 games he's averaged 15/3/2.5 which shows you when given time he produces. He also plays hardnosed defense, hits tough shots, doesnt whine or complain, and is by far our best slasher. He makes a great backup or an acceptable starter.

CableKC
01-17-2006, 03:14 PM
Whats all so special about Fred Jones? I'm a Mavs fan, and I watch him play a bit here and there and I dont see anything that catches my eye. I look at the stats, wondering if I have missed something, but dont see anything there either. I look at his heighth (a short 2-guard) and experience, to see if there is a mass of upside looming, but dont see any indicators.

He looks like "just a guy" to me. If you have him, and he fits and knows your system and gets along and you have a place for him, in the interest of continuity and to have some CHEAP depth, you give him a MODEST contract and keep him.

But I dont see a bidding war looming by other teams eager to sign him.

What, if anything, am I missing?
Freddie maybe undersized......the only thing really special about him is that he's an athletic SG that can provide slightly above average perimeter defense ( which is more then what most backup SGs can provide ) while providing some solid and consistent scoring off the bench for a 3rd through 5th scoring option.

We're not saying he's the next coming or anything.....we're not talking about super upside with Freddie.....he is what he is....a solid backup SG that is familiar with the Pacers system that can provide defense off the bench.

Statistically.....a better guage of what he can do when given minute is to look at his stats for the month of January....specificallly after Tinsley got injured and Freddie played a more prominent role in the Guard rotation. In 28.6mpg over the span of 9 games, he's averaged 47% from the Field, averaging 35% from beyond the 3pt line, averaging 1.3 spg while scoring 14.1 points a game with 1.3 turnovers a game.

He's not going to cause a bidding war for his services......but for a team looking for a backup SG....or looking for a starting quality SG that can be a 3rd or 4th scoring option....he'll easily garner enough attention from GMs to likely put him out of the Pacers price range.

indygeezer
01-17-2006, 03:24 PM
Whats all so special about Fred Jones? I'm a Mavs fan, and I watch him play a bit here and there and I dont see anything that catches my eye. I look at the stats, wondering if I have missed something, but dont see anything there either. I look at his heighth (a short 2-guard) and experience, to see if there is a mass of upside looming, but dont see any indicators.

He looks like "just a guy" to me. If you have him, and he fits and knows your system and gets along and you have a place for him, in the interest of continuity and to have some CHEAP depth, you give him a MODEST contract and keep him.

But I dont see a bidding war looming by other teams eager to sign him.

What, if anything, am I missing?


Every so often FJ puts down one of those incredible dunks that won him the Dunk Competition at the AS game a couple of years ago. WHen he does....man, does that fieldhouse come alive. Otherwise, had he not had the hops he'd be playing in Europe IMO.

Unclebuck
07-01-2006, 10:29 PM
Bump.


Tim: I'd answer your question, but I take it you want this thread to die, so I won't keep it alive

Doug in CO
07-01-2006, 10:39 PM
At this point choosing between the two being Pacers property and out for the season I take Maggette - at least he would be in uniform next year.

Amen! Pure genius!

Tim
07-01-2006, 11:03 PM
Bump why?