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This is my team....

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  • #1

    This is my team....

    I've been thinking about this for a few games now & this seems as good a time as any to make a statement & a confession all at the same time.

    First off, no odd thoughts about the Bucks game because Uncle Buck did a superb job & I don't want to take away from his game recap on his thread.

    Go here to read his thoughts on the game. http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18042

    So, while I might cover some of the things about the game in this post I really am covering this from a larger more philisophical standpoint.

    When I say "this is my team" I don't mean that in a selfish isolated way.

    I mean this.

    I am proud to call this version of the Indiana Pacers a team I can be proud of & route for.

    Yes, at times Jackson drives me crazy with his attitude & J.O. has on occasion of late reverted to yapping at refs. again (but nowhere like he used to) & God knows that when J.T. get's back he will be as fragile as ever.

    But none of that matters right now because this team has been playing with purpose, unity, passion & dare I say enthusiasm.

    Maybe it's because at the end of the day I am somewhat prejudiced towards Pacer drafted players.

    But for some reason seeing Austin Croshere, Fred Jones, Danny Granger & David Harrison, Jeff Foster & maybe someday Jamaal Tinsley become a cohesive fighting force fills me with a sense of pride that I couldn't get from players that we traded for.

    Don't get me wrong I still like the players we bring in, but for some reason when we grow them at home (so to speak) it kind of feels better.

    Here's the thing.

    If we let Artest sit on the bench the rest of the year I wouldn't care. If we traded Ron for a high draft pick that would be fine by me as well.

    The players we have on the floor right now, doing battle for our team, is good enough for me for the rest of this season.

    Am I dumb enough to think we could win a title with these guys?

    Well, yes I am.

    No, honestly there is something there. Maybe it's because I want there to be something there so I'm seeing what isn't really there. But I honestly beleive that right now we are starting to become something we haven't been all season long.

    A TEAM.

    Right now there is no one star who is shining brighter than the next guy.

    Hell, Jermaine O'Neal was doing his best to be a point guard last night vs. the Bucks.

    I honestly think he cares more about winning right now than anything else. If Rick told him to go out & not shoot but just rebound I think J.O. would do it.

    That say's a lot for the man because this is a guy who could pad his stats every single game if he wanted to.

    I have to give the majority of this credit to Rick Carlisle though.

    He has changed the offense to match the players we have on the floor. He has gone away, for the most part, from the egg timer player rotations & he has the defense humming along nicely.

    I like the fact that we are using our bench more & that no one player is playing 40+ min. a game like we used to do.

    A front court of J.O. & Harrison with Cro & Foster backing them up is working quite nicely.

    Get ready for the big suprise here.

    I haven't even had a problem with the way he has used Foster for the past 4 games.

    Start David & let him get some time on the floor. But Foster offers a very nice change of pace when he comes in & I love the fact that Jeff & Austin are playing together & not competing with each other as much for min. on the floor.

    Ok, I guess I'm breaking my own statement here but I have to make one comment about that Bucks game.

    Austin Croshere is something that you cannot teach or practice.

    Austin Croshere is clutch.

    You either are clutch or you are not clutch & beleive me Austin is clutch.

    You need a rebound? Austin will get it in the 4th. Need a point? Let Cro drive & draw a foul because it's two.

    He virtually slammed the door shut on the Bucks in the 4th with his play.

    Ok, back to my real post.

    I love Granger. Is it ok for me to say that I feel great that I can love one of our small forwards again for the first time since, well..... have I ever liked one of our small forwards??? I kind of liked Chris Mullin.

    Artest was an idiot, Rose was a cancer & Satan was the personification of evil so I guess I'll have to go back to Chuck. But I wasn't really that thrilled with him either.

    I guess I really have to go all the way back to Special K.

    But not now.

    I am a full fledged card carrying member of the Dan Wagon. There is nothing about him I don't like. He's already a good defender in this league at his position & I think by the end of this year he will be a great defender at his position. In two years I think he will be the premier defender at his position.

    Yes even better than Ron.

    I do NOT use the Untouchable lable lightly. In fact I never use it at all except for now.

    Unless we were bringing in a superstar to replace him, Danny Granger better be untouchable.

    Like Hicks said, God finally took pity on us for all of the years of Artest, Bender, etc.

    Dan is the Man.

    David Harrison is getting it. It takes centers longer to develop, but David has already cut way down on the fouls & he is starting to use his feet better on defense.

    Ok, I'm starting to do a player by player breakdown which I don't want to do..

    I just love this team right now.

    Now the confession time.

    I haven't liked much about the Indiana Pacers for the past 5 years. I've been a fan & I've continued to buy tickets & watch every game.

    But to be honest, I didn't like many of the players & in fact in Ron's case I was ashamed he was on our team & hated the stupid attention he would bring to our club.

    The very sight of Bender offended me for 6 years.

    Jermaine O'Neal was an immature prima donna who was a false tough guy.

    To me this never seemed much like a team, but a collection of talent that we hoped would gel & become a team. It didn't work.

    Was Artest this much of a problem? Yes. Yes he was, but he wasn't the only problem.

    I think it's great that the Bender thing has finally been taken out of play so that way nobody has to look over thier shoulder waiting on Jon to take their min. when he never earned them.

    But Jermaine O'Neal has grown up over the years. He's gotten better & better each year. But this year I have full faith in him & am proud that he is our leader on the court & co/leader with Cro off of it.

    I guess what I'm just saying is that the team we have on the floor right now I am proud of, win or lose, & I am ok if we don't add anything to it & in fact I don't really want anything taken away from it at the moment.

    This summer we can do some form of trade to get maybe some quality for quantitie, but I would rather just end the season with the team we have & let them grow.

    Every game that Granger & Harrison play is one less game in the future they will need to develop.

    This really is a poorly written & rambling post. I know what I want to convey but I'm not sure if I'm making my point.

    Oh well.

    Go Pacers!!!!


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: This is my team....

    Can't really disagree with much there....




    My question for you is do you think we can keep up this offensive output and play defense at the same time for teh rest of the year?
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: This is my team....

      Originally posted by Suaveness
      Can't really disagree with much there....




      My question for you is do you think we can keep up this offensive output and play defense at the same time for teh rest of the year?

      Absolutley. One is not exclusive of another in my opinion. In fact I think that one helps the other.

      Nothing stops a fast break better than a made basket & nothing will create more fast break opprotunities than solid defense.

      Now here is the one thing that will NOT continue. We will not always shoot this good from the field.

      But with better ball movement & less emphasis on double post ups I hope we see less & less 6-7 min. draughts from the offensive end.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: This is my team....

        Originally posted by Peck
        Absolutley. One is not exclusive of another in my opinion. In fact I think that one helps the other.

        Nothing stops a fast break better than a made basket & nothing will create more fast break opprotunities than solid defense.

        Now here is the one thing that will NOT continue. We will not always shoot this good from the field.

        But with better ball movement & less emphasis on double post ups I hope we see less & less 6-7 min. draughts from the offensive end.
        This is the one thing that I'm curious about. I really want to see what happens when we shoot 42-44% from the floor, yet playing this style of basketball. If we do as you say, continuing to have better ball movement and less stagnatioin, then I have no doubt that we can still win games. Whether or not this happens we will probably find out soon, since this hot shooting will not last too long.
        Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: This is my team....

          Originally posted by Peck
          ...Am I dumb enough to think we could win a title with these guys?

          Well, yes I am.

          Me too! I think the powers that be think so too if they are actualy trading Ron for Maggette as rumored.

          And . . . and, I said I thought we could compete for a title 10 minutes before you did. (giggle)

          http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18048 post #6

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: This is my team....

            Good Stuff

            On a sidenote: It sucks not seeing Bender, I was so high on him time when I saw Bender I saw a guy who was gonna be a awesome player he would've been a match-up nightmare for any player.

            It's to bad this guy had to go through Injuries & Injuries & Injuries.

            We all love you Bender but we have Harrison now "aka" Hulk.


            Comment

            • #7
              Re: This is my team....

              Yes, I didn't watch the game, but it's enough to look at score box to see that Pacers played like a TEAM. What about our bench scoring more than starters? Is it Rick intentionaly build such a system? Is it that we are really that deep?
              I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: This is my team....

                Peck's posts are always the ideal place to post your thoughts, simply beacuse his are so thought provoking

                His remark of seeing Jeff and Cro together on the floor made me realize what I could not put my finger on when watching the Lakers game and why I was so happy with that game despite the loss: This team has balance because of the starting of David Harrisson.

                Not only does David get a chance to develop like he did last year getting minutes (you can almost see him get better from game to game) but he reinforces our bench.

                And best of all, I am sure Rick was planning this, so I am pretty sure David will keep starting for the near future.

                I remember about 6 weeks ago (when the artest saga part X began) that Rick was saying he had been looking at ways of starting David, at that time it was conceived as spin, but the more I see the more I am convinced he was sincere, because at that time (of course also due to Ron's absence) some "new things" creeped in the games.

                For one; Tins started of the game with 3 drives inside for lay-up attempts (and yes that is how he got injured) it established something; room for our outside game.

                But with Tins out and little room created inside, defense had still the chance to collapse on JO, double team him and or get in time to the shooter.

                JO with Cro was an idea, but Cro is an outside threat more then inside and therefore little room was still left for JO.

                With Jeff coming back we would have had the same problem once he starts, Jeff is no "threat" inside, so defenders can leave him alone to help on JO or the shooter, leaving difficult shots and forced play by JO.

                Now we have David inside, and the drives are a success, they can not leave David alone, he creates room for the drive, by blocking a few defenders out of the way, and can score is needed.
                The one team that defended those inside drives (by Jax or even AJ as in LA) was the Warriors and what happened? David scored 6 points in the first 2 minutes, and that was the end of that experiment for them.

                What it ultimately does is it keeps the defense honest, it is not something that will show up in David's stats, but it sure as hell makes life easier for our shooters, who now have time to get a good (and therefore high percentage) shot of.

                It also creates more balance to our bench, as Peck said, Jeff and Cro on the floor together works brillliant, and with Freddie added to the mix we have two teams which is what somehow has always been Rick's ideal.

                Just look at a possible rotation IF we get Corey:

                Tins/Saras/AJ
                Corey/Jax/Fred
                Granger/Jax/Fred/Corey
                JO/Cro
                David/Jeff/Polly

                With 3players possible at PG (Tins Saras and AJ)
                5 possible at SG (Jax. Corey, Fred, AJ & Saras)
                4 possible at SF (Granger, Corey, Jax, Fred)
                3 possible at PF (JO, Cro, Granger)
                5 possible at C (David, Jeff, JO, Polly, Cro)

                and that is with 12 players on the roster (sorry Eddy)

                The future is Bright
                So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: This is my team....

                  The real test of this offense is when they face a good defensive team and whether they can score in the 4th quarter in a playoff or playoff type game. Until we know the answer we won't know how effective it will be when it counts most. I'm all for running, but there comes a time when you have to execute in the halfcourt and manufacture points.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: This is my team....

                    Originally posted by Peck
                    I've been thinking about this for a few games now & this seems as good a time as any to make a statement & a confession all at the same time.

                    First off, no odd thoughts about the Bucks game because Uncle Buck did a superb job & I don't want to take away from his game recap on his thread.

                    Go here to read his thoughts on the game. http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=18042

                    So, while I might cover some of the things about the game in this post I really am covering this from a larger more philisophical standpoint.

                    When I say "this is my team" I don't mean that in a selfish isolated way.

                    I mean this.

                    I am proud to call this version of the Indiana Pacers a team I can be proud of & route for.

                    Yes, at times Jackson drives me crazy with his attitude & J.O. has on occasion of late reverted to yapping at refs. again (but nowhere like he used to) & God knows that when J.T. get's back he will be as fragile as ever.

                    But none of that matters right now because this team has been playing with purpose, unity, passion & dare I say enthusiasm.

                    Maybe it's because at the end of the day I am somewhat prejudiced towards Pacer drafted players.

                    But for some reason seeing Austin Croshere, Fred Jones, Danny Granger & David Harrison, Jeff Foster & maybe someday Jamaal Tinsley become a cohesive fighting force fills me with a sense of pride that I couldn't get from players that we traded for.

                    Don't get me wrong I still like the players we bring in, but for some reason when we grow them at home (so to speak) it kind of feels better.

                    Here's the thing.

                    If we let Artest sit on the bench the rest of the year I wouldn't care. If we traded Ron for a high draft pick that would be fine by me as well.

                    The players we have on the floor right now, doing battle for our team, is good enough for me for the rest of this season.

                    Am I dumb enough to think we could win a title with these guys?

                    Well, yes I am.

                    No, honestly there is something there. Maybe it's because I want there to be something there so I'm seeing what isn't really there. But I honestly beleive that right now we are starting to become something we haven't been all season long.

                    A TEAM.

                    Right now there is no one star who is shining brighter than the next guy.

                    Hell, Jermaine O'Neal was doing his best to be a point guard last night vs. the Bucks.

                    I honestly think he cares more about winning right now than anything else. If Rick told him to go out & not shoot but just rebound I think J.O. would do it.

                    That say's a lot for the man because this is a guy who could pad his stats every single game if he wanted to.

                    I have to give the majority of this credit to Rick Carlisle though.

                    He has changed the offense to match the players we have on the floor. He has gone away, for the most part, from the egg timer player rotations & he has the defense humming along nicely.

                    I like the fact that we are using our bench more & that no one player is playing 40+ min. a game like we used to do.

                    A front court of J.O. & Harrison with Cro & Foster backing them up is working quite nicely.

                    Get ready for the big suprise here.

                    I haven't even had a problem with the way he has used Foster for the past 4 games.

                    Start David & let him get some time on the floor. But Foster offers a very nice change of pace when he comes in & I love the fact that Jeff & Austin are playing together & not competing with each other as much for min. on the floor.

                    Ok, I guess I'm breaking my own statement here but I have to make one comment about that Bucks game.

                    Austin Croshere is something that you cannot teach or practice.

                    Austin Croshere is clutch.

                    You either are clutch or you are not clutch & beleive me Austin is clutch.

                    You need a rebound? Austin will get it in the 4th. Need a point? Let Cro drive & draw a foul because it's two.

                    He virtually slammed the door shut on the Bucks in the 4th with his play.

                    Ok, back to my real post.

                    I love Granger. Is it ok for me to say that I feel great that I can love one of our small forwards again for the first time since, well..... have I ever liked one of our small forwards??? I kind of liked Chris Mullin.

                    Artest was an idiot, Rose was a cancer & Satan was the personification of evil so I guess I'll have to go back to Chuck. But I wasn't really that thrilled with him either.

                    I guess I really have to go all the way back to Special K.

                    But not now.

                    I am a full fledged card carrying member of the Dan Wagon. There is nothing about him I don't like. He's already a good defender in this league at his position & I think by the end of this year he will be a great defender at his position. In two years I think he will be the premier defender at his position.

                    Yes even better than Ron.

                    I do NOT use the Untouchable lable lightly. In fact I never use it at all except for now.

                    Unless we were bringing in a superstar to replace him, Danny Granger better be untouchable.

                    Like Hicks said, God finally took pity on us for all of the years of Artest, Bender, etc.

                    Dan is the Man.

                    David Harrison is getting it. It takes centers longer to develop, but David has already cut way down on the fouls & he is starting to use his feet better on defense.

                    Ok, I'm starting to do a player by player breakdown which I don't want to do..

                    I just love this team right now.

                    Now the confession time.

                    I haven't liked much about the Indiana Pacers for the past 5 years. I've been a fan & I've continued to buy tickets & watch every game.

                    But to be honest, I didn't like many of the players & in fact in Ron's case I was ashamed he was on our team & hated the stupid attention he would bring to our club.

                    The very sight of Bender offended me for 6 years.

                    Jermaine O'Neal was an immature prima donna who was a false tough guy.

                    To me this never seemed much like a team, but a collection of talent that we hoped would gel & become a team. It didn't work.

                    Was Artest this much of a problem? Yes. Yes he was, but he wasn't the only problem.

                    I think it's great that the Bender thing has finally been taken out of play so that way nobody has to look over thier shoulder waiting on Jon to take their min. when he never earned them.

                    But Jermaine O'Neal has grown up over the years. He's gotten better & better each year. But this year I have full faith in him & am proud that he is our leader on the court & co/leader with Cro off of it.

                    I guess what I'm just saying is that the team we have on the floor right now I am proud of, win or lose, & I am ok if we don't add anything to it & in fact I don't really want anything taken away from it at the moment.

                    This summer we can do some form of trade to get maybe some quality for quantitie, but I would rather just end the season with the team we have & let them grow.

                    Every game that Granger & Harrison play is one less game in the future they will need to develop.

                    This really is a poorly written & rambling post. I know what I want to convey but I'm not sure if I'm making my point.

                    Oh well.

                    Go Pacers!!!!

                    I agree with everything about 'team' and not liking them while artest was there. Was a real test of my loyalty to keep rooting for them while he was here.
                    Disagree about them being able to win it as configured. Just not enough scoring punch. WHen the playoffs start and they double Jermaine full time, those great role players aren't consistant enough shooters to win us games at crunch time.
                    We need another shooter. JMO

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: This is my team....

                      i pretty much agree with everything you just said. however, i do have one bone to pick with you... you didn't even mention Fred Jones! he's been ballin' the last few weeks.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: This is my team....

                        Originally posted by able
                        Peck's posts are always the ideal place to post your thoughts, simply beacuse his are so thought provoking

                        His remark of seeing Jeff and Cro together on the floor made me realize what I could not put my finger on when watching the Lakers game and why I was so happy with that game despite the loss: This team has balance because of the starting of David Harrisson.

                        Not only does David get a chance to develop like he did last year getting minutes (you can almost see him get better from game to game) but he reinforces our bench.

                        And best of all, I am sure Rick was planning this, so I am pretty sure David will keep starting for the near future.

                        I remember about 6 weeks ago (when the artest saga part X began) that Rick was saying he had been looking at ways of starting David, at that time it was conceived as spin, but the more I see the more I am convinced he was sincere, because at that time (of course also due to Ron's absence) some "new things" creeped in the games.

                        For one; Tins started of the game with 3 drives inside for lay-up attempts (and yes that is how he got injured) it established something; room for our outside game.

                        But with Tins out and little room created inside, defense had still the chance to collapse on JO, double team him and or get in time to the shooter.

                        JO with Cro was an idea, but Cro is an outside threat more then inside and therefore little room was still left for JO.

                        With Jeff coming back we would have had the same problem once he starts, Jeff is no "threat" inside, so defenders can leave him alone to help on JO or the shooter, leaving difficult shots and forced play by JO.

                        Now we have David inside, and the drives are a success, they can not leave David alone, he creates room for the drive, by blocking a few defenders out of the way, and can score is needed.
                        The one team that defended those inside drives (by Jax or even AJ as in LA) was the Warriors and what happened? David scored 6 points in the first 2 minutes, and that was the end of that experiment for them.

                        What it ultimately does is it keeps the defense honest, it is not something that will show up in David's stats, but it sure as hell makes life easier for our shooters, who now have time to get a good (and therefore high percentage) shot of.

                        It also creates more balance to our bench, as Peck said, Jeff and Cro on the floor together works brillliant, and with Freddie added to the mix we have two teams which is what somehow has always been Rick's ideal.

                        Just look at a possible rotation IF we get Corey:

                        Tins/Saras/AJ
                        Corey/Jax/Fred
                        Granger/Jax/Fred/Corey
                        JO/Cro
                        David/Jeff/Polly

                        With 3players possible at PG (Tins Saras and AJ)
                        5 possible at SG (Jax. Corey, Fred, AJ & Saras)
                        4 possible at SF (Granger, Corey, Jax, Fred)
                        3 possible at PF (JO, Cro, Granger)
                        5 possible at C (David, Jeff, JO, Polly, Cro)

                        and that is with 12 players on the roster (sorry Eddy)

                        The future is Bright
                        IMO there is no way they could bench Jax without causing dissension. Nor should they, not after the way he has picked up his game. If that trade were to go down then Corey would have to be the backup, or you bench Granger. And even if Corey was the backup, what about Fred Jones. After all he has done?

                        Thinking about it now, I don't think Corey would be a good pickup because it overloads us and causes problems. Right now I'm in favor of trading Ron for #1 draft pick.
                        House Name: Pacers

                        House Sigil:


                        House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: This is my team....

                          Peck said.."Hell, Jermaine O'Neal was doing his best to be a point guard last night vs. the Bucks.

                          I honestly think he cares more about winning right now than anything else. If Rick told him to go out & not shoot but just rebound I think J.O. would do it.

                          That say's a lot for the man because this is a guy who could pad his stats every single game if he wanted to.

                          I have to give the majority of this credit to Rick Carlisle though."


                          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

                          JO has been reading my description of what his role should be on the team,
                          ie rebound, defend-block shots, pass and score a little. This team will be its
                          best with a shooting guard leading in scoring. So I take all the credit
                          for JO's game recently ;-)


                          It is a joy to see them play this way Peck. I will call it the Sarunas effect.
                          Heck I saw Jackson give up the ball on a break away to JO :0
                          Sarunas moves the ball around and maybe he truly having an affect on the
                          team.


                          owl
                          {o,o}
                          |)__)
                          -"-"-

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: This is my team....

                            Originally posted by Diamond Dave
                            IMO there is no way they could bench Jax without causing dissension. Nor should they, not after the way he has picked up his game. If that trade were to go down then Corey would have to be the backup, or you bench Granger. And even if Corey was the backup, what about Fred Jones. After all he has done?

                            Thinking about it now, I don't think Corey would be a good pickup because it overloads us and causes problems. Right now I'm in favor of trading Ron for #1 draft pick.
                            I am sure that IF we got Corey, when coming in health and form he would be coming of the bench, from last to sooner, after that it is up to who plays best, dissenting players or not.

                            It would put Fred back a spot, i.e. become 7th man, or it would make Granger 7th man, depending on what is going to happen, but IMO Jax is best suited at the 2, not the 3, therefore my above idea, Granger starts for the same reasons Harrisson starts, to re-enforce the second unit, get quality time experience and because he's better at the 3, but if Corey proves better at the 3, instead of the 2, then that is all interchangeable, which was my main point.

                            With Jax covered well, like in LA we loose to much firepower, Fred has to come in to early, foul making trend has started and is hard to reverse, thus it may just be better , even for Jax, to log hte same amount of minutes (or close to) but come of the bench, though it may be likely that he closes the games out.
                            So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                            If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                            Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: This is my team....

                              Originally posted by Diamond Dave
                              IMO there is no way they could bench Jax without causing dissension. Nor should they, not after the way he has picked up his game. If that trade were to go down then Corey would have to be the backup, or you bench Granger. And even if Corey was the backup, what about Fred Jones. After all he has done?

                              Thinking about it now, I don't think Corey would be a good pickup because it overloads us and causes problems. Right now I'm in favor of trading Ron for #1 draft pick.

                              Good points. But don't forget Fred is a free agent and is likely to leave. Or Jax is lkely to be traded. One or the other will happen. They won't have Corey, Fred, and Jax on the team next season

                              Comment

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