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View Full Version : Would you trade Artest for Maggette?



Shade
01-11-2006, 11:59 PM
Well?

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:00 AM
Sounds A LOT better than cap relief at this point

sweabs
01-12-2006, 12:00 AM
Depends - so I don't vote.

:tongue:

Jermaniac
01-12-2006, 12:01 AM
YES, Sure his D isnt as good as Ron's but sure as hell is alot better on offense.

Isaac
01-12-2006, 12:01 AM
I'd do it whether he'll play this season or not. If he will, great. If not, we will be happy we did it next season.

Plus, the fact that a trade would be done will make our guys much more focused on the season. We'd have a great player waiting for us next year.

Hicks
01-12-2006, 12:01 AM
Yep. A lot better than the other rumors out there.

Frank Slade
01-12-2006, 12:05 AM
Yep. A lot better than the other rumors out there.
No doubt, regardless of Injury still one of the best deals we could have got straight up..

His game is perfect as well when our offense somdtimes stagnates, as he is one of the best at cutting to the basket

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:10 AM
As a guy who's business is mostly sports injuries, you have to make sure this cat has recovered from his. So if I knew he had recovered, then yes, I'd be ok with the trade. The thing is, correct me as necessary, as I understand it, his foot is injured, and there are certain injuries that are more prone to chronic debilitation than others. For instance, my experience has been that its quite hard to heel a broken heel bone (calcaneus) than certain other bones in the foot. It all has to do with blood perfusion and the hope that the point that is injured is well perfused with blood. Areas that are not well perfused tend to heel quite poorly.

I might not make the trade until I've had a look at his foot films/MRIs and know the extent of the damage, maybe that's what is holding this up. I'm sure that some of the guys over at OrthoIndy know something more than I do but I bet they're involved in this.

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:13 AM
As a guy who's business is mostly sports injuries, you have to make sure this cat has recovered from his. So if I knew he had recovered, then yes, I'd be ok with the trade. The thing is, correct me as necessary, as I understand it, his foot is injured, and there are certain injuries that are more prone to chronic debilitation than others. For instance, my experience has been that its quite hard to heel a broken heel bone (calcaneus) than certain other bones in the foot. It all has to do with blood perfusion and the hope that the point that is injured is well perfused with blood. Areas that are not well perfused tend to heel quite poorly.

I might not make the trade until I've had a look at his foot films/MRIs and know the extent of the damage, maybe that's what is holding this up. I'm sure that some of the guys over at OrthoIndy know something more than I do but I bet they're involved in this.

Yes it does sound like injury concern is what is holding the deal up.

sweabs
01-12-2006, 12:16 AM
I was thinking that his current injury sounds similar to what Tinsley had last year?

The mysterious "foot problem"?

I'm still very skeptical of this trade.....I just can't handle oft-injured guys.

Anthem
01-12-2006, 12:18 AM
I don't know... seems like a Warriors deal of Pietrus, Beindrins, and a pick would be better for us.

I think we need another move, so having valuable pieces sure wouldn't hurt us any.

Is anybody considering the possibility that Walsh might be trying to put pressure on the Lakers?

Kegboy
01-12-2006, 12:20 AM
I'm still holding out for that #6 combo from Wendy's.

sweabs
01-12-2006, 12:21 AM
I'm still holding out for that #6 combo from Wendy's.

Is that the Spicy Chicken? Because if so, I'm with ya! That thing brings firepower every night.

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:21 AM
I don't know... seems like a Warriors deal of Pietrus, Beindrins, and a pick would be better for us.

I think we need another move, so having valuable pieces sure wouldn't hurt us any.

Is anybody considering the possibility that Walsh might be trying to put pressure on the Lakers?

??

Pressure the Lakers into what? Maggette is better than anyone they're offering.

Pietrus and Maggette both have injury problems, in this case I'd go with the much better player. I don't understand how you think that deal is better.

Kegboy
01-12-2006, 12:22 AM
Is that the Spicy Chicken? Because if so, I'm with ya! That thing brings firepower every night.

:nod:

****, why did I bring up food right before going to bed. :banghead:

Anthem
01-12-2006, 12:25 AM
Pressure the Lakers into what? Maggette is better than anyone they're offering.
But not better than what they COULD offer (Odom).

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:25 AM
I was thinking that his current injury sounds similar to what Tinsley had last year?

The mysterious "foot problem"?

I'm still very skeptical of this trade.....I just can't handle oft-injured guys.

RCAREY,
I'm not sure if you're being flip in your response, but its very difficult to compare two injuries. As a leaman you can say that both guys had foot injuries, but its soooo much more than that. Its where in the foot that's important.

blanket
01-12-2006, 12:28 AM
I would've made this trade at any point over the last year, so the present circumstances (Ron's trade demand, Corey's injury) aren't even factors for me.

Now, if Corey's injury turns out to be career ending, or Grant Hill-like, then no we obviously should keep looking; but I'm sure that's not the case, and I'd rather Corey sit out the rest of the season if necessary if it means he'll be ready for next year.

I'll take the predictability of a player who always misses 15-20 games a season over the unpredictability of Ron-Ron.

sweabs
01-12-2006, 12:28 AM
RCAREY,
I'm not sure if you're being flip in your response, but its very difficult to compare two injuries. As a leaman you can say that both guys had foot injuries, but its soooo much more than that. Its where in the foot that's important.

You're right. I was alluding to the fact that any injury to the foot can be quite complicated because of all the different things that could potentially go wrong in there? Would that be a safe assumption?

I was using Tinsley as an example, because most of us had no clue of what was happening in that foot last year, and it was a very long recovery.

Speaking of Tinsley, I just saw on the local sport-station "Tinsley - DNP (biceps)".

Huh?

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:30 AM
But not better than what they COULD offer (Odom).

I disagree.

Anthem
01-12-2006, 12:32 AM
I disagree.
Really? You think Maggette's better than Odom?

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:32 AM
You can never be sure that someone's injury isn't career ending when it comes to weight bearing joints and limbs, often the knees or feet. More rare are injuries of the axial spine, including vertebra/spinal cord.

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:33 AM
Really? You think Maggette's better than Odom?

I think you can go either way with that one. (I'm not a huge fan of Odom)

However, Maggette brings more energy to the game and is a better fit for this team. The only knock he's got against him is the injuries.

Anthem
01-12-2006, 12:34 AM
You can never be sure that someone's injury isn't career ending when it comes to weight bearing joints and limbs, often the knees or feet. More rare are injuries of the axial spine, including vertebra/spinal cord.
I've had enough of injured players. I like Tinsley and his game quite a bit, but he's dead to me if he can't stay on the court. I don't want to have the all-injured backcourt.

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:37 AM
I've had enough of injured players. I like Tinsley and his game quite a bit, but he's dead to me if he can't stay on the court. I don't want to have the all-injured backcourt.

But you want Pietrus?

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:39 AM
Though I don't know for sure, RCAREY, my limited secondhand knowledge about Tins is that he has some psychosocial issues outside of physical issues that are quite limiting. I know some of the people who treat Tins from being a resident physician in Indianapolis, and as I understand it, Tins' injuries never matched up properly with the symptoms that he experienced. This is all second hand, I've never been involved in his care or know this to be fact.

As far as the foot goes, well there are some complicated bones in the foot that don't get good blood supply, and so when they are broken, they can be difficult to fix and make like new. All the healing time in the world doesn't always solve the problem.

The hand, is another story, it doesn't bear weight so one can injure themselves but not be as prone to chronic debilitation bc there are ways patients can adjust to hand injuries. I've got guys with multiple broken fingers from bar fights, etc, and sure, they're hands look somewhat wrangled due to displaced healing even after surgery but they can still be funtional bc they don't have constant pressure on them like the feet.

tadscout
01-12-2006, 12:39 AM
Really? You think Maggette's better than Odom?

Yes, in this case you can do it for a 1 for 1... but for Odom we have to include another player (or 2) salary wise...

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:41 AM
Though I don't know for sure, RCAREY, my limited secondhand knowledge about Tins is that he has some psychosocial issues outside of physical issues that are quite limiting. I know some of the people who treat Tins from being a resident physician in Indianapolis, and as I understand it, Tins' injuries never matched up properly with the symptoms that he experienced. This is all second hand, I've never been involved in his care or know this to be fact.

As far as the foot goes, well there are some complicated bones in the foot that don't get good blood supply, and so when they are broken, they can be difficult to fix and make like new. All the healing time in the world doesn't always solve the problem.

The hand, is another story, it doesn't bear weight so one can injure themselves but not be as prone to chronic debilitation bc there are ways patients can adjust to hand injuries. I've got guys with multiple broken fingers from bar fights, etc, and sure, they're hands look somewhat wrangled due to displaced healing even after surgery but they can still be funtional bc they don't have constant pressure on them like the feet.


Huh? What does that mean?

blanket
01-12-2006, 12:42 AM
After everything we've been through with Bender it's hard to say this, but really I have no other choice here:

I trust the Pacers medical staff to make the right recommendation in their review of Corey Maggette's injuries.

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:48 AM
Basically there is a medical term for it - somatization. I'll let you look it up - this has been a term that others in the medical community have used to describe the likes of JT. Again, I'm going off what I've been told, not something I know firsthand.

tadscout
01-12-2006, 12:49 AM
I remember reading somewhere that Maggette's injury is w/ a muscle or tendon... not a bone... so as long as it's not torn completely and needs surgery he should be able to comeback this season... I wish I remember were that was, read so many basketball articles...:pullhair:

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:50 AM
I think any intelligent medical staff evaluating Maggette for the Pacers is simply going to want to see him run for some prolonged time, maybe 10 minutes.

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 12:54 AM
Huh? What does that mean?

Basically Tins has no pain threshold and sometimes he complaints of injuries that don't seem to be there on MRIs/X Rays, etc.

SoupIsGood
01-12-2006, 12:59 AM
Basically there is a medical term for it - somatization. I'll let you look it up - this has been a term that others in the medical community have used to describe the likes of JT. Again, I'm going off what I've been told, not something I know firsthand.

I was wondering if you were getting at some sort of somatoform disorder. Interesting.

Anthem
01-12-2006, 01:04 AM
But you want Pietrus?
Not for $31mil over 4 years, I don't.

microwave_oven
01-12-2006, 01:05 AM
so·ma·ti·za·tion (sm-t-zshn)
n.

In psychiatry, the conversion of anxiety into physical symptoms.

Fireball Kid
01-12-2006, 01:18 AM
Artest for Maggette? Sure.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-12-2006, 01:36 AM
I voted no. Maggette is a pretty good player , 20+ points a game the last three years, 5-6 rebounds the last four years. He seems to be injury prone. He missed 16 games last year, 9 in '03-'04, 18 in '02-'03, 19 in '01-'02 & in his 1st two years he missed 18 games total. He's clearly going to miss more this year than any before. I'm a little leery about injury prone players. This is the same reason I didn't like the Pietrus trade. We already have too many guys missing games for various reasons. I would want something more in the mix, not just a straight up trade ( ie. picks).

CableKC
01-12-2006, 01:41 AM
Depends.....are we gonna make another move by the trade deadline to move SJax to save enough money to figure out a way to resign Freddie?

If so...then I am fine with it. If not....then I want Pietrus.

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 09:26 PM
Hello all, I don't enjoy getting involved in what I consider to be true speculation, but I have some interesting second hand information.

Just FYI, on Tuesday, as I understand it, Corey Maggette's films (x-rays, MRI) were reviewed by Methodist Sports Medicine radiology and OrthoIndy. So that's it. Make whatever you want to make out of it.

Hicks
01-12-2006, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the info, Kaufman. Seems the deal, happening or not, at least was/is getting close to have us looking over his medical information like that.

Young
01-12-2006, 09:33 PM
I would probably not trade Ron for Maggette.

Why? Injuries. 2 out of 6 full seasons playing 70+ games, the rest of games played were in the 60s.

Now playing in atleast 60 games may not sound that bad for the regular season but he has never been to the playoffs so how would he hold up there? I think Indiana needs to start getting more durable. We have enough injury prone players.

Pacerized
01-12-2006, 09:40 PM
I'd trade for Maggette in a heartbeat. I'd put him just behind Lewis on my wish list, but he's a better value. He played 66 games last year, and 73 the year before that. I wouldn't call that injury prone, but this current injury may be cause for caution. Still, both teams would be taking a big risk, and I doubt if we could get a more talented player for Artest. Maggette is a better scorer, and rebounder in less P.T. I'd take him over Odom, or Al.

PacerFan31
01-12-2006, 09:40 PM
Hello all, I don't enjoy getting involved in what I consider to be true speculation, but I have some interesting second hand information.

Just FYI, on Tuesday, as I understand it, Corey Maggette's films (x-rays, MRI) were reviewed by Methodist Sports Medicine radiology and OrthoIndy. So that's it. Make whatever you want to make out of it.

Which would also confirm WISHTV's claim that the only thing in the way is a meeting with Artest and the Clippers today or tomorrow, since the Pacers have looked over Maggette's injury.

Ragnar
01-12-2006, 09:42 PM
Since we know the Clippers will go back to sucking how about we trade Ron for their first round pick. Not this year but at our discretion so that we can take their pick to get Odom.






Not Lamar.

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 09:43 PM
Well its not as simple as that. While we have looked at his films, it is my understanding that we have not looked at HIM.

PacerFan31
01-12-2006, 09:46 PM
Well its not as simple as that. While we have looked at his films, it is my understanding that we have not looked at HIM.

I see, I always thought that team doctors would fly to LA to examine him :confused:

Young
01-12-2006, 09:47 PM
Since we know the Clippers will go back to sucking how about we trade Ron for their first round pick. Not this year but at our discretion so that we can take their pick to get Odom.






Not Lamar.

Get Odom but not Lamar? Do you mean Oden?

BlueNGold
01-12-2006, 09:49 PM
The question can only be answered by making the assumption regarding how well he will recover. With that said, I voted yes assuming he will fully recover.

My rationale? First, he is an incredibly efficient offensive player with a points per field goal attempt higher than any Pacer...and far higher than Jax. This is due to the fact he gets to the line often, hits a high pct. The bonus to this is that he gets the opposing team in foul trouble. Second, his absence from the Clippers has made a significant impact on their season. It seems they have still not recovered...and this trade my be a sign of desperation on their part. Third, he has a track record of multi-year 20+ ppg averages. Jax has never done that. I also believe he is a more legit, consistent second scoring option. Finally, he has to be less volatile than Jax....and likely will result in improved chemistry...but I have nothing but Jax to base that speculation upon.

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 09:57 PM
I see, I always thought that team doctors would fly to LA to examine him :confused:

That is correct, but I can only presume that any team would only allow another team to examine a player when they are 100% signed off on the trade and ready to sever ties with a player in question as this will create quite a bit of frustration for the player involved and bad blood if the player ends up not being traded. But I can assure you that the Clippers must have examined him and must be comfortable that he'd pass a Pacers examination, otherwise they'd be sort of committing a poor mistake that in the past would have been consistent with their management.

FrenchConnection
01-12-2006, 10:00 PM
Well its not as simple as that. While we have looked at his films, it is my understanding that we have not looked at HIM.
I'm not sure that teams can "touch the goods," so to speak, before the deal is finalized. Perhaps that is why they sent the x-rays first and not the player. I think that all trades are subject to a physical, but in this case it would not be a formality.

EDIT: Sorry Kaufman, you beat me to it!

PacerFan31
01-12-2006, 10:01 PM
That is correct, but I can only presume that any team would only allow another team to examine a player when they are 100% signed off on the trade and ready to sever ties with a player in question as this will create quite a bit of frustration for the player involved and bad blood if the player ends up not being traded. But I can assure you that the Clippers must have examined him and must be comfortable that he'd pass a Pacers examination, otherwise they'd be sort of committing a poor mistake that in the past would have been consistent with their management.

True, I didn't really think of it that way, even though I probably should have. Thank you.

Kaufman
01-12-2006, 10:09 PM
"Show and tell" but not "show and feel".

PacerFan31
01-12-2006, 10:58 PM
Deal is dead according to Chery Miller.

Ron met with the Clippers but the Pacers wouldn't clear Maggette