PDA

View Full Version : Whose worth getting from 5th to 10th seeded Western Confernence teams?



CableKC
01-11-2006, 01:47 AM
Its not surprising that the teams that are most prominently mentioned in the Artest sweepstakes are the 5th through 10th Western Conference teams. The only teams that don't want Artest are the Western Elite teams.

These 5th to 10th seed are the teams that are looking for Artest to push them either into the Playoffs or over one of those Elite Teams.

Looking at the teams:

Grizzlies
Clippers
Lakers
Warriors
Nuggets
TWolves

Which players do you reasonably think we can get in return for Artest?

Which team do you think that Artest would be the best fit for...and therefore be more willing to pull a trigger on an offer from Walsh?

If we are looking at what Walsh is truly looking for....young prospects in their rookie or sophmore years and possibly draft picks.....it would seem that we aren't looking at alot of good 2 team trading partners....unless its the Warriors....and we know where we stand with them. With the Warriors......the best we can hope for is that the Warriors hit a serious rough patch between now and the trade deadline that knocks them into 10th place and they get desperate to do something drastic.

With the rest of the trading partners....we are likely looking at a 3 team trade...which is difficult in itself.

I'm gonna guess that whichever team is seeded in the 7th to 10th spots is gonna be where Artest ends up.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Will Galen
01-11-2006, 04:18 AM
Whose worth getting from 5th to 10th seeded Western Confernence teams?

What are you saying/asking?

NPFII
01-11-2006, 09:57 AM
Its not surprising that the teams that are most prominently mentioned in the Artest sweepstakes are the 5th through 10th Western Conference teams. The only teams that don't want Artest are the Western Elite teams.

These 5th to 10th seed are the teams that are looking for Artest to push them either into the Playoffs or over one of those Elite Teams.

Looking at the teams:

Grizzlies
Clippers
Lakers
Warriors
Nuggets
TWolves

Which players do you reasonably think we can get in return for Artest?

Which team do you think that Artest would be the best fit for...and therefore be more willing to pull a trigger on an offer from Walsh?

If we are looking at what Walsh is truly looking for....young prospects in their rookie or sophmore years and possibly draft picks.....it would seem that we aren't looking at alot of good 2 team trading partners....unless its the Warriors....and we know where we stand with them. With the Warriors......the best we can hope for is that the Warriors hit a serious rough patch between now and the trade deadline that knocks them into 10th place and they get desperate to do something drastic.

With the rest of the trading partners....we are likely looking at a 3 team trade...which is difficult in itself.

I'm gonna guess that whichever team is seeded in the 7th to 10th spots is gonna be where Artest ends up.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Ok, I'll bite:

Grizzlies - Battier. Nothing less.

Clippers - Maggette. Mobley+Kaman could be nice also.

Lakers - Odom, but not ecstaticly. Bynum would nice, if we want a project.

Warriors - JRich, or 2 youngsters out of Diogu, Pietrus, Biedrins. Murphy would be a nice addition as well.

Nuggets - Nothing much there. KMart is a no, Camby & Nene are out, Melo is untouchable, and maybe maybe Andre Miller, but only if we package Tinsley along. Really nothing there...

TWolves - Wally + Kandiman + McCants was talked about. IMO that's not bad, though Wally's not a defensive force, to say the least...

I'd add from the East:
NY - Frye. No Marbury, no Q, maybe Crawford.


I have to add that a 3-way deal seems more likely. The teams you pointed out are the probable destinations for Artest, but don't have the pieces that we want. Therefore DW will make a list of desireable players that are possible on teams that don't want Artest (or we wouldnt want to send him there), but are willing to deal.

It's worth noting that in this scenario DW has the ability to "sweeten" the deal for the 3rd team by adding trade assets like Pollard, Cro, Foster, Tinsley, and maybe even SJax - depending on the caliber of player he aims to get. The untouchable Pacers IMO are JO, Granger, Sarunas & 1st round picks. Highly unlikely are Harrison, Freddie. The rest are in jeopardy - depending on the requests coming from the 3rd party.

This is that wish-list, IMO:

Atlanta - Al Harrington
Boston - Paul Pierce
NJ - Richard Jefferson
NO/OK - David West
Chicago - Ben Gordon or Tyson Chandler
Seattle - Ray Allen or Rashard Lewis. Flip Murray is good also.

I'll give and example for this kind of trade:
Indiana - Artest,Tinsley to Denver. SJackson to NJ
Denver - Earl Watson, KMart to NJ. Nene to Indiana
NJ - Jefferson & 1st rounder to Indiana. Marc Jackson to Denver

Indiana - we get RJ this year, and a 1st rounder + Nene next year. We lose Tinsley who's injury-prone and our inconsistent 2nd option Jackson. Seems fair. Sarunas/Jefferson/Granger/JO/Foster ain't bad at all!

Denver - Get Artest. That's the point. They get rid of KMart's contract and Watson's contracts and an injured Nene. They get an injured Tinsley to back up Miller & Boykins, and Marc Jackson to help them out while Camby is injured. Miller/Melo/Artest/Najera/Camby

NJ - get a scoring option instead of RJ (now that VC is there his role is a lesser one anyway), and KMart back. They also get Earl Watson as a decent backup for JKidd. Kidd/Carter/SJax/KMart/Krstic


But these things take time, and a 3-way negotiation is not easy. DW has the patience - and hopefully he gets the player he wants.

CableKC
01-11-2006, 12:25 PM
Whose worth getting from 5th to 10th seeded Western Confernence teams?

What are you saying/asking?
I was asking...of the teams that are likely to be the 5th to 10th seeds in the West ( who coincidentally are the teams that are jockeying for Artest ):

Grizzlies
Clippers
Lakers
Warriors
Nuggets
TWolves

Which players do you think the Pacers can reasonably/realistically get?

Chauncey
01-11-2006, 12:30 PM
I wholeheartedly think that the Pacers should go after a combination of Devean George and Aaron McKie *grin*

sweabs
01-11-2006, 12:31 PM
I wholeheartedly think that the Pacers should go after a combination of Devean George and Aaron McKie *grin*

And I wholeheartedly would love to see Kobe and Artest on the same team.

PacerMan
01-11-2006, 01:09 PM
Its not surprising that the teams that are most prominently mentioned in the Artest sweepstakes are the 5th through 10th Western Conference teams. The only teams that don't want Artest are the Western Elite teams.

These 5th to 10th seed are the teams that are looking for Artest to push them either into the Playoffs or over one of those Elite Teams.

Looking at the teams:

Grizzlies
Clippers
Lakers
Warriors
Nuggets
TWolves

Which players do you reasonably think we can get in return for Artest?

Which team do you think that Artest would be the best fit for...and therefore be more willing to pull a trigger on an offer from Walsh?

If we are looking at what Walsh is truly looking for....young prospects in their rookie or sophmore years and possibly draft picks.....it would seem that we aren't looking at alot of good 2 team trading partners....unless its the Warriors....and we know where we stand with them. With the Warriors......the best we can hope for is that the Warriors hit a serious rough patch between now and the trade deadline that knocks them into 10th place and they get desperate to do something drastic.

With the rest of the trading partners....we are likely looking at a 3 team trade...which is difficult in itself.

I'm gonna guess that whichever team is seeded in the 7th to 10th spots is gonna be where Artest ends up.

Any thoughts on the subject?

I think it's just as likely to be from the 2-5 seeded teams looking for the push to get them past #1. They'll be willing to give up talented but unproven young guys for a lock down defender going into the playoffs.
Lets say your team is in line to play CLeveland and you don't have a decent defender for Lebron(or Hamilton). Give up a couple of kids that look promising but aren't playing starter minutes for the chance to grab for the brass ring THIS year?
Some will say "HELL YES". It's the nature of pro sports. Do everything you can when you are 'close'. When you think you have a chance to win it all.

PacerMan
01-11-2006, 01:15 PM
Ok, I'll bite:

Grizzlies - Battier. Nothing less.

Clippers - Maggette. Mobley+Kaman could be nice also.

Lakers - Odom, but not ecstaticly. Bynum would nice, if we want a project.

Warriors - JRich, or 2 youngsters out of Diogu, Pietrus, Biedrins. Murphy would be a nice addition as well.

Nuggets - Nothing much there. KMart is a no, Camby & Nene are out, Melo is untouchable, and maybe maybe Andre Miller, but only if we package Tinsley along. Really nothing there...

TWolves - Wally + Kandiman + McCants was talked about. IMO that's not bad, though Wally's not a defensive force, to say the least...

I'd add from the East:
NY - Frye. No Marbury, no Q, maybe Crawford.


I have to add that a 3-way deal seems more likely. The teams you pointed out are the probable destinations for Artest, but don't have the pieces that we want. Therefore DW will make a list of desireable players that are possible on teams that don't want Artest (or we wouldnt want to send him there), but are willing to deal.

It's worth noting that in this scenario DW has the ability to "sweeten" the deal for the 3rd team by adding trade assets like Pollard, Cro, Foster, Tinsley, and maybe even SJax - depending on the caliber of player he aims to get. The untouchable Pacers IMO are JO, Granger, Sarunas & 1st round picks. Highly unlikely are Harrison, Freddie. The rest are in jeopardy - depending on the requests coming from the 3rd party.

This is that wish-list, IMO:

Atlanta - Al Harrington
Boston - Paul Pierce
NJ - Richard Jefferson
NO/OK - David West
Chicago - Ben Gordon or Tyson Chandler
Seattle - Ray Allen or Rashard Lewis. Flip Murray is good also.

I'll give and example for this kind of trade:
Indiana - Artest,Tinsley to Denver. SJackson to NJ
Denver - Earl Watson, KMart to NJ. Nene to Indiana
NJ - Jefferson & 1st rounder to Indiana. Marc Jackson to Denver

Indiana - we get RJ this year, and a 1st rounder + Nene next year. We lose Tinsley who's injury-prone and our inconsistent 2nd option Jackson. Seems fair. Sarunas/Jefferson/Granger/JO/Foster ain't bad at all!

Denver - Get Artest. That's the point. They get rid of KMart's contract and Watson's contracts and an injured Nene. They get an injured Tinsley to back up Miller & Boykins, and Marc Jackson to help them out while Camby is injured. Miller/Melo/Artest/Najera/Camby

NJ - get a scoring option instead of RJ (now that VC is there his role is a lesser one anyway), and KMart back. They also get Earl Watson as a decent backup for JKidd. Kidd/Carter/SJax/KMart/Krstic


But these things take time, and a 3-way negotiation is not easy. DW has the patience - and hopefully he gets the player he wants.


Nene, Jefferson and a #1 for Artest,Tinsley and Jackson?

:) WHere do I vote for this????????

CableKC
01-11-2006, 01:22 PM
I think it's just as likely to be from the 2-5 seeded teams looking for the push to get them past #1. They'll be willing to give up talented but unproven young guys for a lock down defender going into the playoffs.
Lets say your team is in line to play CLeveland and you don't have a decent defender for Lebron(or Hamilton). Give up a couple of kids that look promising but aren't playing starter minutes for the chance to grab for the brass ring THIS year?
Some will say "HELL YES". It's the nature of pro sports. Do everything you can when you are 'close'. When you think you have a chance to win it all.
I was thinking of that...but the Elite teams of the West....the Spurs, Mavs, Suns....are doing too good to mess up the team by adding Artest. I can see the Mavs and Suns thinking that the Spurs are the team to beat...but I think with the way they have been playing this season ( the Suns without Amare and the Mavs playing much better defense then before under Avery Johnson ), they can make a strong push against the Spurs in the 2nd round and the WCF. I can see the risk of taking on Artest outweighing the benefits of taking on Artest. Why mess with things when things are going great?

This isn't as true with the 3rd seed ( or the winner of the NorthWest division ), the 5th through 8th seeds ( teams that have to go through the Spurs, Mavs or the Suns ) or the 9th / 10th seeds ( teams that can still make a push to make the Playoffs ).

The only smart move that I have seen is the Suns putting their hats into the ring by offering to be the 3rd team in the Artest sweepstakes where they not only benefit from this by getting back a roleplayer that can only help out in the Playoffs...they can essentially veto any such trade if they feel that it don't want to move Artest to a Conference rival.