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Hicks
01-02-2006, 12:59 PM
Now keep in mind this is from a rookie poster, who is a Heat fan, so absolutely there's a chance that he's 100% lying. But all the same he listed some things that I felt were interesting and realistic (though many have laughed at them).

First of all, many there are claiming certain posters who seem to be their versions of our own diamond_dave00 et al who seem to "hear things" saying that Walsh has his final offers and will decide tomorrow which to pick.

Next, this Wade fan fellow is claiming this:

(In reply to being accused of trolling)


No trolling what so ever. It whats being reported by Jorge Sedano on Fox Sports Radio.



Ok they listed all of the reported offer....

Lakers: Odom and George for Artest and Croshere
Warriors: Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster
Nuggets: Nene and Watson for Artest
Wolves: Olowokandi, Griffin, and McCants for Artest and Fred Jones
Clippers: Wilcox, Rebraca, and Kaman for Artest and Foster
Wizards: Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for Artest
Grizzlies: Brian Cardinal and Shane Battier for Artest and Sarunas Jasikevicius
Nets: Jefferson and Linton Johnson for Artest and Foster


Again this could all be 100% false, but I think all of these offers seem somewhat realistic (whether we as Pacers fans like them or not), and it's been so dry lately we need something new(ish) to talk about.

If there's a hint of truth to any of these (and there's plenty reason to be skeptical, including Eric's claims of Odom NOT being offered by LA), I like the Clippers deal best, followed closely by the Nets offer.

Richard Jefferson would be a great replacement for Artest, but we'd be giving up Foster and we already suck at the big positions. Therefore, I like LAC's best because Kaman gives us a true, big center to start with JO, and gives as a prospect PF in Wilcox.

A close third would be the Golden State trade. Murphy'd be a hell of a pickup, but I like the idea of getting a true center and a young PF better.

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=3600

Frank Slade
01-02-2006, 01:03 PM
Certainly some bigger names in these rumors if that is the case...
I would be really encouraged if this is really what is being offered...

pizza guy
01-02-2006, 01:06 PM
Odom/George? RJeff/LJohnson? I'd do both of those.

SoupIsGood
01-02-2006, 01:10 PM
OK let's assume this a true for a second, just to talk about it.



I really like the idea of adding Kaman. He's been playing some nice ball, and we need a true center.

It would be hard not to do the GS trade though. Pietrus and Murphy? Damn.

If these proposals are true, which there's a good chance they aren't, but IF they are, almost all of them are shipping out Foster or Croshere. Notice that none of them include Harrison? Maybe Donnie is trying to free up some time for him, and I'm betting he has a lot more confidence in Harrison than some of you.

Having Kaman/Harrison/Pollard available at the C position would almost make me cry tears of joy, good lord that'd be an ugly but big and physical bunch.

SoupIsGood
01-02-2006, 01:15 PM
According to the front of HoopsHype, the Hornets owner is interested in Artest.

317Kim
01-02-2006, 01:16 PM
Yeah having Kaman would be ugly yet BIG..that means we would no longer be as feisty. Hustle? IF that's true and IF we do that one, Cro can do what he did the first few weeks grabbing offensive boards etc..so the scrappy part doesnt decrease too bad.


The trade with the Wolves that includes Fred, hmmm...I REALLY lIKE THE WAY FRED'S BEEN PLAYING..but McCants, Kandi, and Griffin..I'm still leaning towards no though.

Giving up Runi is a :nono:

That Watson/Nene for Ron has been around for quite awhile...

Gamble
01-02-2006, 01:19 PM
I would move Foster before Austin. With this team we need all
the points and rebounds we can get. I agree a center would be
nice and if Foster is moved then atleast we could guard the
bigger centers in the league. About freeing up time for Harrison
i highly doubt it. Rick is the one calling that and i am sure it won't
change unless Harrison sucks up to Rick.

317Kim
01-02-2006, 01:24 PM
I'd hate to give up Foster right now since last game he showed he can still produce double doubles and be feisty...13 boards 10 pts.

Diamond Dave
01-02-2006, 01:26 PM
No way would I move Austin.

That being said, I will be ecstatic if some of these were true. I really love the Warriors, Nets, and Wolves "supposed" offers.

Personally I would go with the Warriors. I'll be happy with any of them except for the Denver one.

The Nuggets offer sucks in comparison to the others.

blanket
01-02-2006, 01:30 PM
These are interesting and, if true, very encouraging. If *any* of these offers (with the exclusion of the already-known Nuggets offer) are real, then I think we'll end up OK.

However, I'd be concerned about the Clippers deal - even with how well Kaman is playing - since it wouldn't send us back a SF or SG.

And, as much as I like Battier, I wouldn't even THINK of both giving up Runi AND taking on Cardinal's horrible contract. If they've got a counter offer, I'd listen, though.

Mourning
01-02-2006, 01:30 PM
I don't know the Clippers offer sounds too good to be true for me as does the Warriors deal. Murphy is the Warriors leading rebounder and except for his atrocious defense does several things quite well. Wilcox and Kaman leaving the Clippers ... who would they have at center at who would be backing up Brand, except Foster who they get, but who else?

I don't know, some ofb those rumours sound pretty credible and I guess maybe the Warriors and Clippers deals could be made just that aswell if there's a good motivation behind them, but I just don't see it (at first sight ;)).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Jaydawg2270
01-02-2006, 01:35 PM
please do the nets one

sixthman
01-02-2006, 01:36 PM
No way would I move Austin.

Hyperbole I hope. :)

If we bring in a big to start, Austin's role on this team will be minimized.

Los Angeles
01-02-2006, 01:36 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that the majority of those trades are pretty decent?

EDIT:
Lakers: Odom and George for Artest and Croshere. GOOD
Warriors: Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster BAD
Nuggets: Nene and Watson for Artest GOOD
Wolves: Olowokandi, Griffin, and McCants for Artest and Fred Jones BAD BAD BAD
Clippers: Wilcox, Rebraca, and Kaman for Artest and Foster GOOD
Wizards: Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for Artest BAD
Grizzlies: Brian Cardinal and Shane Battier for Artest and Sarunas Jasikevicius BAD BAD BAD
Nets: Jefferson and Linton Johnson for Artest and Foster GOOD

So I guess I'm split - 4 good, 4 bad.

Mourning
01-02-2006, 01:39 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that the majority of those trades are pretty decent?

Most of them are decent, absolutely! I think most here would aggree with you on that. But, them beying "decent", sadly, is what makes me VERY suspicious about them beying real, but who knows, I certainly hope they are true :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

BlueNGold
01-02-2006, 01:39 PM
Now keep in mind this is from a rookie poster, who is a Heat fan, so absolutely there's a chance that he's 100% lying. But all the same he listed some things that I felt were interesting and realistic (though many have laughed at them).

First of all, many there are claiming certain posters who seem to be their versions of our own diamond_dave00 et al who seem to "hear things" saying that Walsh has his final offers and will decide tomorrow which to pick.

Next, this Wade fan fellow is claiming this:

(In reply to being accused of trolling)

Again this could all be 100% false, but I think all of these offers seem somewhat realistic (whether we as Pacers fans like them or not), and it's been so dry lately we need something new(ish) to talk about.

If there's a hint of truth to any of these (and there's plenty reason to be skeptical, including Eric's claims of Odom NOT being offered by LA), I like the Clippers deal best, followed closely by the Nets offer.

Richard Jefferson would be a great replacement for Artest, but we'd be giving up Foster and we already suck at the big positions. Therefore, I like LAC's best because Kaman gives us a true, big center to start with JO, and gives as a prospect PF in Wilcox.

A close third would be the Golden State trade. Murphy'd be a hell of a pickup, but I like the idea of getting a true center and a young PF better.

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=3600

Disregarding potential trades to rid us of Wacko Jacko, I like the GS offer best. We need more scoring and Murphy can provide that. Murphy is also a capable rebounder. Pietrus could turn out to be a very good player and can play SG. We may lose Fred Jones after this season and Pietrus is a good replacement.

I like the Clipper's offer as well. Kaman is a legit C who is young, can defend and score. I don't like Wilcox or Rebraca much....but a Legit C is tough to come by. This is almost a toss up.

Diamond Dave
01-02-2006, 01:43 PM
Hyperbole I hope. :)

If we bring in a big to start, Austin's role on this team will be minimized.

It would have to be for a very good starter, with excellent behavioral history.

At this point there is no run of the mill player that could bring as much to this team as Austin does. Trading Artest and Cro would be trading the two polar ends of your team.

IMO, Cro is a very valuable asset when on the floor (just look at his plus/minus stats), but beyond that he is the glue that holds this team together.

SoupIsGood
01-02-2006, 01:47 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that the majority of those trades are pretty decent?

EDIT:
Lakers: Odom and George for Artest and Croshere. GOOD
Warriors: Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster BAD
Nuggets: Nene and Watson for Artest GOOD
Wolves: Olowokandi, Griffin, and McCants for Artest and Fred Jones BAD BAD BAD
Clippers: Wilcox, Rebraca, and Kaman for Artest and Foster GOOD
Wizards: Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for Artest BAD
Grizzlies: Brian Cardinal and Shane Battier for Artest and Sarunas Jasikevicius BAD BAD BAD
Nets: Jefferson and Linton Johnson for Artest and Foster GOOD

So I guess I'm split - 4 good, 4 bad.

How is the Warriors offer bad but the Nugget's good?

PacersGuest
01-02-2006, 01:48 PM
First time poster here, I like the Warriors, Nets, and Lakers deals the best out of those mentioned.

Pietrus and Murphy help fill a lot of holes for the Pacers. Pietrus would improve our perimeter defense and give us a starting SG. Murphy gives us the scoring we have been lacking, and he can provide a nice inside-out combo with Jermaine.

Richard Jefferson is a good young swingman who is a very good defender and scorer. Losing Foster would definately hurt the Pacers' frontcourt, but another deal could be made later on to bolster it a bit.

Lamar Odom can do a lot of things with the basketball and could play wherever the Pacers need him. Devean George is a solid role player who is also an expiring.

Los Angeles
01-02-2006, 01:52 PM
How is the Warriors offer bad but the Nugget's good?
A very fair question - I'm going on gut instinct, with no reasoning to back it up. I honestly could go either way on either of those deals. I just think it's a on-court chemistry thing. I don't see the warriors guys doing well here, but I do see the Nuggets guys doing well here.

JamesR
01-02-2006, 01:57 PM
That Clippers deal is awesome. Kaman has been playing good ball for the past 2 years and Wilcox is a super athletic 4, dunks on everbody.

Mourning
01-02-2006, 02:01 PM
First time poster here, I like the Warriors, Nets, and Lakers deals the best out of those mentioned.

Pietrus and Murphy help fill a lot of holes for the Pacers. Pietrus would improve our perimeter defense and give us a starting SG. Murphy gives us the scoring we have been lacking, and he can provide a nice inside-out combo with Jermaine.

Richard Jefferson is a good young swingman who is a very good defender and scorer. Losing Foster would definately hurt the Pacers' frontcourt, but another deal could be made later on to bolster it a bit.

Lamar Odom can do a lot of things with the basketball and could play wherever the Pacers need him. Devean George is a solid role player who is also an expiring.

I aggree with your assesments though I think it would be very hard to strike another deal to bolster our Center position without losing another substantial player. I think IF true I would choose the Clippers deal, followed by the Warriors. I have always been advocating a deal with the Warriors IF we had to move Ron Ron (the only trade proposal regarding Ron that I made last year was with them), but Kaman AND Wilcox is an offer we can't refuse IMO. This would completely solidify our frontcourt positions. Sure our backcourt still wouldn't be super, but I think this package fits our playing style and physique playing style the best.

Oh yeah and... :welcome: ;) :D :D.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

mulisha
01-02-2006, 02:02 PM
I'm really skeptical at some of these offers. I don't see why the Clippers would offer Kaman, Wilcox, and Rebraca but not Magette. So at the 2/3 spot, the clippers would have Mobley, Magette, Artest, Ross, and sometimes Livingston. It also gives them a frontcourt of Brand, Foster, and nothing else.

The Warriors offer would have them lose their starting PF with no replacement. They would have 2 C's but no PF.

I also don't think that one person would be able to find out all the offers on the table. I think these are more speculation than anything.

Harmonica
01-02-2006, 02:09 PM
Warriors: Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster
Clippers: Wilcox, Rebraca, and Kaman for Artest and Foster

Done and done. Whaddaya waiting for Donnie?

SoupIsGood
01-02-2006, 02:09 PM
Does Rebraca even play anymore?

diamonddave00
01-02-2006, 02:09 PM
I question a couple of those offers. I don't believe the Nets offer is real and seriously doubt the Clipper one is.

If the Warrior offer is legit it should include Biedrins coming here or a #1 pick.

The Laker offer I'm not sure about either , if its real I'd have to think Kupchak is thinking last nights performance by Brian Cook is an indication he's healthy and ready to give big minutes.

At this point Warriors offer if legit gives us two very usable players filling 2 spots , Lakers offer if real gives us a versatile player with passing skills.

Denver deal would have to include a 2nd Pacer probably Anthony Johnson going to Denver.

Grizzlies deal is crap Brian Cardinal has 5 yr 28 mil contract is in his 7th year , had his 2nd knee operation this summer has yet to play in a game this season. Now in his 7th nba season he's played 130 nba games can you say Bender?

Wolves deal out and out stinks we already have a 6 mil expiring center contract in Pollard , McCants is playing very little , Griffin has had abuse problems and spent 30 days in jail last summer. Hard to believe Rockets gave Nets Jefferson , Collins and a 3rd #1 on draft day for Griffin.

I see 2 good trades (if offers are correct) Lakers and Warriors. 1 decent deal Nuggets. The Nets and Clippers I don't feel are legit. Other 3 Grizz, Wiz and Twolves are bad.

FiestyFosterFanatic
01-02-2006, 02:14 PM
I have some questions about Watson? Is he a point guard that can actually guard someone? If so, I'd love to have him on this team, because we have 3 point guards who play the Olay Defense.

Mourning
01-02-2006, 02:14 PM
A very fair question - I'm going on gut instinct, with no reasoning to back it up. I honestly could go either way on either of those deals. I just think it's a on-court chemistry thing. I don't see the warriors guys doing well here, but I do see the Nuggets guys doing well here.

I we were to do the Warriors deal then some of the things that would have me wondering:

1) where does this leave Cro? I presume Croshere and Murphy would both be playing the PF position. So, it seems to me either JO will have to play C fulltime or we will have two HIGHLY PAID players playing backup minutes for at best just one player.

2) do we have enough balls for this team? Seems to me we are going to have a lot of players who like to shoot, maybe too many?

3) we will gain some defense presence in the backcourt with Pietrus (whom I REALLY like as a player), but in the frontcourt??? Whose going to do the dirty defensive work? Granted Pollard can, but he's not healthy enough to rely solely on. I guess both Croshere and Murphy can scrap too, but how effective is especially the later at it. Now I know he's the leading rebounder for the Warriors, but looking at that roster .... that doesn't look too difficult (;)) and with 8.6 RPG that isn't even that high. And both players defense ... well :uhoh: let's say they are both DEFINITELY NOT known for it. I would rather get Biedrins... ahwell :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

diamonddave00
01-02-2006, 02:15 PM
I question a couple of those offers. I don't believe the Nets offer is real and seriously doubt the Clipper one is.

If the Warrior offer is legit it should include Biedrins coming here or a #1 pick.

The Laker offer I'm not sure about either , if its real I'd have to think Kupchak is thinking last nights performance by Brian Cook is an indication he's healthy and ready to give big minutes.

At this point Warriors offer if legit gives us two very usable players filling 2 spots , Lakers offer if real gives us a versatile player with passing skills.

Denver deal would have to include a 2nd Pacer probably Anthony Johnson going to Denver.

Grizzlies deal is crap Brian Cardinal has 5 yr 28 mil contract is in his 7th year , had his 2nd knee operation this summer has yet to play in a game this season. Now in his 7th nba season he's played 130 nba games can you say Bender?

Wolves deal out and out stinks we already have a 6 mil expiring center contract in Pollard , McCants is playing very little , Griffin has had abuse problems and spent 30 days in jail last summer. Hard to believe Rockets gave Nets Jefferson , Collins and a 3rd #1 on draft day for Griffin.

I see 2 good trades (if offers are correct) Lakers and Warriors. 1 decent deal Nuggets. The Nets and Clippers I don't feel are legit. Other 3 Grizz, Wiz and Twolves are bad.

Oh as for Warriors trading Murphy and having no starting pf , Foster or impressive rookie Ike Diogu could play pf.

Mourning
01-02-2006, 02:17 PM
I have some questions about Watson? Is he a point guard that can actually guard someone? If so, I'd love to have him on this team, because we have 3 point guards who play the Olay Defense.

Do you actually read what some people write here? Several posters have been cring for him since last spring (if not sooner), because of his good defense ;). Defense is what he's mostly known for, aside from his shooting. He's a decent PG IMO, not spectacular, but decent. Wondering if he's not way too small for the bigger PGs though (Billups, Kidd, Baron Davis, Wade if he plays PG).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

diamonddave00
01-02-2006, 02:22 PM
Another little note on Troy Murphy twice in his career so far , he has averaged over 10 rpg for a season including 10.8 boards a game last season. To me he's a left handed Brad Miller with much better range.
He's good for 13-17 ppg and 8-11 rpg over a season and like Miller has an aggressive side.

Kstat
01-02-2006, 02:23 PM
Another little note on Troy Murphy twice in his career so far , he has averaged over 10 rpg for a season including 10.8 boards a game last season. To me he's a left handed Brad Miller with much better range.
He's good for 13-17 ppg and 8-11 rpg over a season and like Miller has an aggressive side.

Brad Miller could pass.

He also wasn't a total red carpet defensively. Granted he wasn't great but Murphy gets abused all the time.

Raskolnikov
01-02-2006, 02:23 PM
Another little note on Troy Murphy twice in his career so far , he has averaged over 10 rpg for a season including 10.8 boards a game last season. To me he's a left handed Brad Miller with much better range.
He's good for 13-17 ppg and 8-11 rpg over a season and like Miller has an aggressive side.
Doesn't he shoot 3's every once in a while?

Napptown
01-02-2006, 02:24 PM
I believe that the Wiz deal would fit us pretty well if we could also ship out AJ or Gill. Butler is a good defender, passer and can drive to the bucket.

We could look at sending out Jax and Atkins (or another PG) at a later date to improve even more.

I also like the Lakers and Warriors deals.

Jermaniac
01-02-2006, 02:25 PM
A very fair question - I'm going on gut instinct, with no reasoning to back it up. I honestly could go either way on either of those deals. I just think it's a on-court chemistry thing. I don't see the warriors guys doing well here, but I do see the Nuggets guys doing well here.Yeah they would do well cause they wouldnt play. Watson would be our 4th PG and Nene is out for the year.

Have you ever seen MP2 and Murph play? They would help this team from day one. Murph brings 2 things we most need, rebounding and scoring from a big man to help JO out. MP brings a perimieter defender that we lose with Ron. This is probably the best deal out of all of those on that list.

Los Angeles
01-02-2006, 02:26 PM
Done and done. Whaddaya waiting for Donnie?
He's waiting for the deal at Tutwiler Cadillac to go through first.

Los Angeles
01-02-2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah they would do well cause they wouldnt play. Watson would be our 4th PG and Nene is out for the year.

Have you ever seen MP2 and Murph play? They would help this team from day one. Murph brings 2 things we most need, rebounding and scoring from a big man to help JO out. MP brings a perimieter defender that we lose with Ron. This is probably the best deal out of all of those on that list.
I could be swayed. :whoknows:

Mourning
01-02-2006, 02:28 PM
Another little note on Troy Murphy twice in his career so far , he has averaged over 10 rpg for a season including 10.8 boards a game last season. To me he's a left handed Brad Miller with much better range.
He's good for 13-17 ppg and 8-11 rpg over a season and like Miller has an aggressive side.

I must admit that I haven't seen very much of him. Think I saw 3 or 4 Warriors games last season and then this season I saw the game at december 30th in which he played VERY impressive against Dirk Nowitzki. Actually, I don't remember him playing horrible in the games that I saw so far.

His D though :uhoh:. On the bright side the help defense of Indiana is pretty good, but putting him on the floor with Sarunas would at the sametime could be nice offensively, but might on the other end also bring huge risks. I'm not out yet, but I do know I would be absolutely be willing to accept this deal as a Pacersfan.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Bball
01-02-2006, 02:28 PM
The Grizz's GM wants Sarunas before Tins or AJ?

-Bball

GetOdom
01-02-2006, 02:30 PM
You guys should see the thread in CL it has 3660+ replies and 366 pages :o

Outlaw
01-02-2006, 02:50 PM
If true then Lakers & Warriors are the best.I can't believe The Clippers offer is true unless they have another trade in place or a 3 way.:cool:

owl
01-02-2006, 02:50 PM
Done and done. Whaddaya waiting for Donnie?


Kaman is a legit center and not a headcase. Wilcox and Rebraca
are fair to good players. Kaman is what the Pacers need.


owl

J_2_Da_IzzO
01-02-2006, 02:51 PM
The Nets offer isnt as good as people are making out. Jefferson has some awful games and great games whereas Vince more often then not gets 20+ points, 5+ boards and a few assists.

Pacers sometimes are to predictable offensively but if we got Vince Carter we would add another dimension to offense because he takes it to the hoop strong whenever possible and jams it instead of laying it in.

Oh yh and I hope that JO isnt going to be our permanent centre. He needs to play PF.

Harmonica
01-02-2006, 02:54 PM
I question a couple of those offers.

Oh, I question all of them. There are very few people who know all the trades that have actually been discussed to date and the ones that are a real possibility. I certainly wouldn't trust an internet source at this point.

Diesel_81
01-02-2006, 03:02 PM
If all these deals are on the table then theres a good reason why he hasn't made a trade yet. Im looking at this myself and I'm not sure what the bet trade is.I't has to be difficult for Walsh and Bird which direction they want to go and who would be the best fit.

The clipper deal is kind of interesting.Kris Kamen has been one of these guys who's but up some big numbers but he's been a little inconsistant.I think he could grow into a all star caliber center. You have to seriously consider the lakers if they're giving up Lamar Odom because I think he has the most potential of anybody that is being included in the deal and I think Golden State gives us the best two player involved in any deal. Pietrus and Murphy would start for us right away.I think I would go with GS deal.

rel
01-02-2006, 03:10 PM
Do all these trades actually work salary cap-wise?


...also, im a big fan of the GS deal
although im wondering where fred jones or pietrus would be in the rotation (which one would be ahead in the rotation?)

Jermaniac
01-02-2006, 03:14 PM
This is how I would do it

C - JO/Harrison or Pollard
PF - Murphy/Cro
SF - Pietrus / Danny
SG - Jack/Fred
PG - Tins/Saras

Kstat
01-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Does Rebraca even play anymore?


He has a heart condition that's forced him to miss the last month.

Outlaw
01-02-2006, 03:17 PM
Actually 3 of the trades do not work salary wise.The Clippers,Washington,& New Jersey. None of those 3 work.

Eric_Pincus
01-02-2006, 03:20 PM
Yeah - that's a load of bunk - Can't trade Caron (poison pill with an extension that hasn't kicked in) - No way the Clippers trade Kaman (I have that from a Clipper exec - no one in the core - period which leaves just Wilcox) - Lakers haven't offered Odom.

Young
01-02-2006, 03:20 PM
Lakers: Odom and George for Artest and Croshere
Sign me up. Odom and JO at the 4-5? Only Detroit would have a better 4-5 combination in the league that I can think of.

Warriors: Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster
I wouldn't mind this deal. Pietrus is a good talent and Murphy has a nice face up and rebounding game.

Nuggets: Nene and Watson for Artest
I would pass.

Wolves: Olowokandi, Griffin, and McCants for Artest and Fred Jones
Not a terriable deal. Olowokandi is expiering, Griffin can play solid, and McCants is a good talent but I would defentily perfere some of these others offers if this is true.

Clippers: Wilcox, Rebraca, and Kaman for Artest and Foster
This isn't a great deal for us. Wilcox probably won't amount to anything in this league other than a bust, Rebraca has the heart of a 65 year old man, and Kaman is a nice talent but the only nice piece we get in the deal.

Wizards: Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins for Artest
I've always like Caron and I think he would be a nice addition to the deal. Chucky I could care less about.

Grizzlies: Brian Cardinal and Shane Battier for Artest and Sarunas Jasikevicius
No way. I liek Cardinal and Battier but not at the expense of Sarunas but hell Rick isn't playing Sarunas much anyways so what makes the diffrence?

Nets: Jefferson and Linton Johnson for Artest and Foster
Not sending Artest out West but I can care less if we are getting RJ in the deal. I would have a hard time picking between RJ and Odom.

Jermaniac
01-02-2006, 03:20 PM
Lakers wont be getting Ron then

dannyboy
01-02-2006, 03:21 PM
Hard to believe Rockets gave Nets Jefferson , Collins and a 3rd #1 on draft day for Griffin.

That's just the Rockets doing what the Rockets do.

Here's how thier latest gem of a trade is working out so far:


05-06 PPG RPG APG SPG BLG FG% FT% 3P% MPG G GS
R. Alston 7.3 3.9 3.9 .78 .56 .338 .727 .267 31.8 9 9
M. James 15.4 3.1 4.5 .66 .00 .444 .815 .404 33.9 29 29

diamonddave00
01-02-2006, 03:25 PM
VAPACERSFAN- Bingo the real sources most people have are exactly how you described them. Thats why any rumor from the last 10 days is guess work.

Donnie went dark( cut off all leaks ) about 10 days ago . When a trade gets to serious stage he does this. Its not unusual for Donnie to mention trade thoughts or ideas early in talks.

Anything since even with a source has to have come from other teams . From what I was told early cap relief would be nice but not a key , some reports seem to far over emphasize that factor. If he could move Austin and get an expiring contract and not hurt the team he'd do it. But its not the trade breaker.

I reviewed the list of trades listed here and they all fit capwise , but that all they fit. Telling me they are made up by someone using REALGM.COM trade checker . The Nets, Clippers and Grizzlies ones scream of it.

Clippers trade both center for Foster and Artest??

I do know Odom has been a personal fav of theirs but I got conflicting info on if he was even offered at anytime. Even tho Vescey is a throw it against the wall columnist covering the nba trade scene , he does have connections inside the Pacers. I buy his comments about Kobe/Odom scrape being more than Lakers are letting on , but I'm not sure its bad enough that Odom was offered.

Hopefully Donnie makes a move soon but I'd guess the rumor starter on this one at ClubLakers is a little off on the offers and the time frame.

Eric_Pincus
01-02-2006, 03:33 PM
If the Lakers don't get Artest because they don't give up Odom - fair enough.

I spoke with the beat reporters who were there and said the Vecsey is a "f'ng liar." They spoke to Odom outside of the bus - there was no security, etc. To be honest - the one reporter who slammed Vecsey the hardest has been very hard on Kobe and is a big Shaq supporter. He'd be the first to pile on Kobe if warrented.

tadscout
01-02-2006, 03:37 PM
Yeah - that's a load of bunk - Can't trade Caron (poison pill with an extension that hasn't kicked in) - No way the Clippers trade Kaman (I have that from a Clipper exec - no one in the core - period which leaves just Wilcox) - Lakers haven't offered Odom.

Things change hourly in trade negotiations... so just b/c they said they haven't/won't trade him last week means ABSOLUTLY NOTHING NOW... so unless you've heard from your very close reliable Lakers sources within the last hour or two, I'm not going to even consider to believe you... Things change, you can't hold onto old news and hold it as gospel when it comes to this sort of negotiating...

Also anyone remember Donnie saying Rose wouldn't be traded right before he traded him? So there again, another lesson, you can't put 100% trust in what GM's say b/c they are playing their own game called- negotiation... They will say and do anything to help their team to position themselves for trades...<o:p></o:p>

diamonddave00
01-02-2006, 03:44 PM
Eric ,
I'll buy that Vescey embellished the story . But I'm not buying 100% nothing happened , we all know tempers explode at times but we also know teammate quickly forget heat of moment arguments. As I stated above hearsay can get out of hand. A reporter from a smaller paper sees part of it and relays it to Vescey. Vescey then based on the insider goes with it. Vescey is not popular with beatwriters not hard to see one calling him a f'ing liar even if he is closer to the truth than the beatwriter will report.

Eric , just my view on it. Like I said doubt it would be extreme enough regardless since I believe Lamar and Kobe cooled off quickly and let it go.

Eric_Pincus
01-02-2006, 03:53 PM
Dave - they're saying that there were words in a basketball context - but nothing like what Vecsey said. And they were physically there. I'm sure there's more to it - but I know from being in the locker room with the guys that what was written a MAJOR exaggeration. Not that it's all hugs, candy and milkshakes in the Laker locker room.

As far as the Lakers changing their mind on Odom - certainly possible - but what was said - the way it was said - and by whom it was said by - I just have to stick by the belief that the Lakers won't cave on Odom. If that means losing Artest - that's probably what will happen.

diamonddave00
01-02-2006, 04:05 PM
Eric , no problem dude, I agree unlikely. But as I said on the other tread we both know that even people in positions of power are never 100% truthful with ANY reporter.

I agree very unlikely , I"ll still not be suprised to see Artest end up somewhere that no one has mentioned. A suprise team could well swoop in and give the best offer.

No one will know until a trade is announced.

Phil
01-02-2006, 04:06 PM
I can't imagine that New Jersey would give up Richard Jefferson, but wouldn't that offer-- if true-- skyrocket to the top of the charts?

I think most of those (short of the one with Sarunas involved) look decent. I'd rather NOT give up Fred Jones, but if McCants can get his head on straight, he has more raw talent.

The LA trade looks good.
The NJ one looks really, really good IMHO (though it's so left field it seems impossible)
The Wiz one is decent (isn't Butler's contract wild, though?)
The Griz one would be if not for Sarunas (if it was AJ instead, I'd like that one).
The GS one is nice.

More importantly... if only a handful of these are even close to legit, value is being offered.

-Phil

sixthman
01-02-2006, 04:06 PM
Eric, who do you think the Lakers would put in a trade first: Odom or Bynum?

LakerFan
01-02-2006, 04:16 PM
Guy who made all this is up is a Wade fan...which means that he can't be older than 13. So....this thread is kinda worthless :)

Kegboy
01-02-2006, 04:24 PM
Color me skeptical.

However, if we can get Kaman, we do it, period. But I don't see how he'd be available.

I'd do any of those deals, except Minny and Memphis. We don't need another attitude like Griffin on our team. I love Cardinal, I was at Purdue with he and his wife. But he's damaged goods, and his contract is a bear. I wouldn't trade Cabbage for him.

[edit] One thing. If we trade Ron and Foster, are we gonna all take turns on UB's suicide watch?

Hicks
01-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Guy who made all this is up is a Wade fan...which means that he can't be older than 13. So....this thread is kinda worthless :)

Don't you think that's a pretty ignorant generalization? I'm a fan of Wade myself, and I'm far from 13, and I don't see why liking one of the more humble superstars makes you a teenager.

Kstat
01-02-2006, 04:26 PM
Don't you think that's a pretty ignorant generalization? I'm a fan of Wade myself, and I'm far from 13, and I don't see why liking one of the more humble superstars makes you a teenager.

Clublakers.com has been at war with heat fans for the last 2 years. It's just different over there.

Mourning
01-02-2006, 04:31 PM
Pacers sometimes are to predictable offensively but if we got Vince Carter we would add another dimension to offense because he takes it to the hoop strong whenever possible and jams it instead of laying it in.

WAKE UP!!! :arrgh:





;)

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Eric_Pincus
01-02-2006, 04:36 PM
Although fans around the league may not get it - Bynum is an untouchable. The Lakers look at him as a top 3 lottery pick big man that they just got a year early (because he had to come out now before the rule changed).

Odom would go way before Bynum.

purplengoldjonez
01-02-2006, 04:42 PM
Eric,
Is it Mitch making the decision on Odom not being swapped for Artest, or is it someone higher, and most importantly how does that sit with Phil? He seemed very high on Ron.

Harmonica
01-02-2006, 05:11 PM
I will add one more group that does hear some things, but maybe just a little more then the casual fan: sports agents.
And immediate family members. Donnie and his wife have been together since he was 14 and she was 12. She knows, I imagine.

Eric_Pincus
01-02-2006, 05:25 PM
Mitch, Phil, Jimmy Buss and Doc Buss are all the decision makers to varying degree - obviously ownership has the final say.

larry
01-02-2006, 08:04 PM
i complain alot but i like the offers. i'd be content w/ what donnie thinks is the best. i don't like denvers' deal because we have 2 many small point gaurds. also, we are injury prone so i cant take a chance on nene. i want guys that play hurt. any others i like and trust walsh on.

larry
01-02-2006, 08:17 PM
Guy who made all this is up is a Wade fan...which means that he can't be older than 13. So....this thread is kinda worthless :)
wade owns the lakers! laker fans can u please give up ur kobe, odom & artest dream? we cant just buy any player we want so we wont give a top 10 away. we set him, we make the playoffs... oh well. keep odom.

larry
01-02-2006, 08:34 PM
the nets dont need r.j.
him & vince are the same. vince will sell more tix & is going bonkers lately. i think kidd, billups & nash = top 3 points. im sure they could use defense. remember they could be in brooklyn & jigga would fill seats w/ carter flyin around & artest doin crazy *****. don may not want 2 deal so closely. r.j.>odom in skill & attitude!
odom is untouchable anyway(hahaha...keep him!)

PacerFan31
01-03-2006, 01:53 AM
I don't buy anything that someone is told, unless it is signed, sealed, and delivered to David Stern's desk, I don't buy it.

Or unless somehow you have mind reading capabilities.........................

microwave_oven
01-03-2006, 02:16 AM
Yeah, I forgot them. But I am sure not all GM's are always talking about work.

I know a lot of people who are happily married who rarely, if ever, discuss work. Granted most of them work for the government, and dont work as the CEO of a sports franchise.

And mad props to Donnie, getting married at 14 :-p

:lol2: :lmao: :funny: :chuckle: :rotflmao:

BryantDunkGiant
01-03-2006, 04:56 AM
If this is true...

If I was Indiana, I'd do that RJ trade. Although my Lakers' offer of Odom & Devean isn't bad either.

By the way, you guys definitely don't want that supposed Wizards trade. That is, unless you enjoy having defensive cancers on your team. Chucky in particular.

The guy just registered today so you can't be too sure he isn't pulling our collective leg.

By the way, I'm 99% sure that guy is lying. Trust me.

It's most likely someone trying to rile up Laker fans. We probably haven't offered Odom although his name has come up.


You guys should see the thread in CL its has 3660+ replies and 366 pages :o
Haha yeah, our staff changes the name of its author every few hours. Keeps you on your toes. ;)

Frank Slade
01-03-2006, 01:09 PM
Jan. 2, 2006
By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer
Tell Tony your opinion!


Latest Ron rumors
This will likely be the week Ron Artest lands at his new home, and there have been a number of rumors popping up while you were sipping your champagne.

Because of Donnie Walsh's desire to make sure Artest is shipped as far away as possible so he doesn't hurt the Pacers, Western Conference teams have become popular destinations. The Lakers are one potential spot if they can get a trade partner in place, with Devean George and Lamar Odom as names that have come up as possibilities.

Golden State is another team that could potentially pull the trigger -- forwards Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu are all solid young players that could potentially land Artest.

The Clippers talk has cooled because Corey Maggette's injury, but perhaps a package including Chris Wilcox could be worked out. Minnesota and Denver have each had conversations with the Pacers, too, and noted above, both could badly use his services.
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/9138307


Was not really for sure where this blurb should go.. or if it needed it's own thread some of the same specualtion, however the Golden State players mentioned , does fit somewhat with the rumored players on the first post from Hicks..

Also this is now the second or third report from yesterday or today that is suggesting this could or should be the week... then again :unimpress

Mourning
01-03-2006, 01:19 PM
I know we are extremely unlikely to get him, but ...

Diogu, please!!!

:bowdown:



;)

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

blanket
01-03-2006, 01:30 PM
Jan. 2, 2006
By Tony Mejia
CBS SportsLine.com Staff Writer
Tell Tony your opinion!


http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/9138307


Was not really for sure where this blurb should go.. or if it needed it's own thread some of the same specualtion, however the Golden State players mentioned , does fit somewhat with the rumored players on the first post from Hicks..

Also this is now the second or third report from yesterday or today that is suggesting this could or should be the week... then again :unimpress

:D

Yeah, I posted this article in one of the 5000 trade threads yesterday, not knowing where it should go or wanting to start a whole new thread for it!

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:05 PM
If Jefferson can play SG, that'd be a great deal...

extreme
01-03-2006, 03:07 PM
Everyone wants Artest right now so ..

Diesel_81
01-03-2006, 03:09 PM
If Jefferson can play SG, that'd be a great deal...

He's versatile enough to play SG. Not quite sure he's worth all the money we would be paying him though. Isn't he making max money or close to it?

Shade
01-03-2006, 03:13 PM
Here's the latest:


The radio station here, which BTW first broke the deal that brought J-Will and Posey to Miami, is saying all deals have been sent in as of late this afternoon, and Pacers GM Donnie Walsh is going to send Artest and Foster to the Warriors for Mickael Pietrus and Troy Murphy. Deal will reportedly be announced before 5 PM EST today. (Tuesday)
Walsh reportedly shyed away from Odom due to his past but mostly due to his enormous contract.

It kinda makes sense, since Hulk got so much PT and played so well last night.

If this happens, I hope you guys are right about Pietrus. I've seen very little of the guy in action. Btw, isn't Pietrus injured? How long is he expected to be out?

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:18 PM
Here's the latest:



It kinda makes sense, since Hulk got so much PT and played so well last night.

If this happens, I hope you guys are right about Pietrus. I've seen very little of the guy in action. Btw, isn't Pietrus injured? How long is he expected to be out?


Wow. I hope this dude is right, but I hope Murphy doesn't take the starting spot that Harrison has a chance at right now.

I don't think he would either, because when it comes to Harrison vs. Murphy, Harrison is a much better defender, Murphy just blows. Hopefully Rick will give David the nod because of that.

But I like Pietrus, a lot. He's a great perimeter defender. Pietrus and Granger on the perimeter would be kill.

Frank Slade
01-03-2006, 03:21 PM
Here's the latest:



It kinda makes sense, since Hulk got so much PT and played so well last night.

If this happens, I hope you guys are right about Pietrus. I've seen very little of the guy in action. Btw, isn't Pietrus injured? How long is he expected to be out?

Are the Call letters of this station mentioned, just curious where the station is located ?

Shade
01-03-2006, 03:23 PM
Are the Call letters of this station mentioned, just curious where the station is located ?

It didn't say. That's the guy's most recent post. :whoknows:

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:23 PM
Any other reports of people hearing this on the radio? Or is he just making it up?

Frank Slade
01-03-2006, 03:24 PM
It didn't say. That's the guy's most recent post. :whoknows:
This is on Club Lakers.com correct ?

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 03:24 PM
I would much rather do a trade with the Warriors.But don't underestimate Memphis right now with West looking for a PG. Which we could accomodate with one of ours.(Tinsley or AJ)

Young
01-03-2006, 03:25 PM
I would like to get Pieatrus and Murphy but have a hard time believing it is true.

- The Warriors would be trading their leading rebounder without getting one back. Although Foster is nice I don't know that he is a guy who can replace Murphy. (Unless GS wants more defense than it makes sense)
- DW is scared of Odom's contract, roughly 39 million over 3 seasons, but not Murphy's who makes roughly 49 million through 2010/2011???

Mourning
01-03-2006, 03:27 PM
Wow. I hope this dude is right, but I hope Murphy doesn't take the starting spot that Harrison has a chance at right now.

I don't think he would either, because when it comes to Harrison vs. Murphy, Harrison is a much better defender, Murphy just blows. Hopefully Rick will give David the nod because of that.

But I like Pietrus, a lot. He's a great perimeter defender. Pietrus and Granger on the perimeter would be kill.

I always thought Murphy was a PF not beying very good if capeable at all at C. However, the consequence of that could very well be, and you are not going to like that ... JO playing C FULLTIME, while PF gets taken fulltime by Croshere and Murphy.

Maybe, David gets some backup minutes behind JO, but ehmm... there's also this Pollard dude :dunno:

It this is the deal that will come out then I will be satisfied. I'm trying to refrain myself from beying too exstatic ... for now, I'll have to see it first.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:28 PM
I always thought Murphy was PF not beying very good if capeable at all at C. However, the consequence of that could very well be, and you are not going to like that ... JO playing C FULLTIME, while PF gets taken fulltime by Croshere and Murphy.

Maybe, David gets some backup minutes behind JO, but ehmm... there's also this Pollard dude :dunno:

It this is the deal that will come out then I will be satisfied. I'm trying to refrain myself from beying too exstatic ... for now, I'll have to see it first.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Yeah, I don't really want JO playing C fulltime.

Hicks
01-03-2006, 03:30 PM
Peck will jump for joy if this happens. Last I read, he LOVES Murphy.

Harmonica
01-03-2006, 03:34 PM
I'd like this trade as well.

Hicks
01-03-2006, 03:36 PM
As for JO, they probably asked him how he felt about playing C more often, and either he said "I can do it" (and I would assume this is when they thought they could get Al Harrington), or he said "I don't think I can" or "I don't know", and they decided to play David Harrison. Dunno.

I hope this is true. Guess we'll know in 2 or 3 hours. If nothing's been said by 6 or at the lastest 7, we know this is bogus.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 03:38 PM
I'm very much ok with it, except if JO indeed would have to play C fulltime, but Rommie made a good point about his salary. On the other hand compared to the Odom deal we also get a second decent player with, some will hate this one, "potential" in Pietrus which changes the situation a bit. This would mean Freddie not getting extended and we would have to make some more moves maybe to not EXPLODE over the cap.

Did anyone try this on REALGM btw?

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 03:39 PM
I think dd00 said it best,apart from Shaq,nobody plays with big lumbering centers anymore. It has become 2PF's, 2swing players & a PG.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 03:40 PM
"Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes
Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State
3.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 19.6 minutes

Incoming
Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
16.6 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 35.3 minutes
Mickael Pietrus
6-6 SG from France (Foreign)
10.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 22.1 minutes
Change in team outlook: +4.2 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and -0.9 apg.



Golden State Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
16.6 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 35.3 minutes
Mickael Pietrus
6-6 SG from France (Foreign)
10.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 22.1 minutes

Incoming
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
19.4 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.2 apg in 37.8 minutes
Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State
3.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 19.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: -4.2 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg.



Successful Scenario
There were BYC players involved in this trade, so this trade is subject to the BYC provisions of the CBA. Due to Indiana and Golden State being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Golden State had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out unless trade exceptions were used for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. "

http://www3.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

Seems to be working...

Shade
01-03-2006, 03:40 PM
This is on Club Lakers.com correct ?

:nod:

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=977640&highlight=#977640

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:42 PM
I think dd00 said it best,apart from Shaq,nobody plays with big lumbering centers anymore. It has become 2PF's, 2swing players & a PG.

That doesn't mean you should go that way if you have the opprotunity to start a real center.

Shade
01-03-2006, 03:43 PM
IF this goes down, this will most likely be the depth chart:

C - JO/Hulk/Pollard/Walker
PF - Murphy/Cro
SF - Jack/Granger
SG - Pietrus/Freddie
PG - Tins/Runi/AJ/Gill

Btw, when the hell will Bender announce his retirement so we can pick up another FA or something?

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:43 PM
I'm very much ok with it, except if JO indeed would have to play C fulltime, but Rommie made a good point about his salary. On the other hand compared to the Odom deal we also get a second decent player with, some will hate this one, "potential" in Pietrus which changes the situation a bit. This would mean Freddie not getting extended and we would have to make some more moves maybe to not EXPLODE over the cap.

Did anyone try this on REALGM btw?

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

If think Fred would be re-signed. If Pietrus is brought in, I have a feeling Jax might be leaving eventually.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 03:47 PM
If think Fred would be re-signed. If Pietrus is brought in, I have a feeling Jax might be leaving eventually.

Maybe, for some reason I think the Tinman might be the odd man out soon though, maybe they will be packaged together?

Hicks
01-03-2006, 03:47 PM
Btw, when the hell will Bender announce his retirement so we can pick up another FA or something?

Assuming we trade Ron before the deadline, after the dust has settled post-trade. Or after the deadline if Ron's still "here".

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:48 PM
Maybe, for some reason I think the Tinman might be the odd man out soon though, maythe they will be packaged?

It wouldn't surprise me. Tinsley is just injured too much.

Diesel_81
01-03-2006, 03:50 PM
Murphy makes alot of money but you know what I consider him a starting caliber powerforward who's a tremendous rebounder and will score 14-15 a game but the wildcard here is Pietrus who has all star talent written all over him. I would rather have Diagu because of his contract and potential but I can't complain. This is probably the best deal we were going to get and gives us pieces to start retooling again.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 03:50 PM
Everyone is giving the damned company line (see todays Q and A over at IS) of "Bender needing to take his time" and while that may be true, personally I think he is being offered as part of a package, or at least the Pacers are trying to make that happen.

So it wouldnt surprise me if he announces right after a trade, assuming he isnt a part of it.

I agree....

Mourning
01-03-2006, 03:52 PM
Yup, VA sounds pretty plausible with regards to what you wrote about Bender.

Shade
01-03-2006, 03:52 PM
Murphy makes alot of money but you know what I consider him a starting caliber powerforward who's a tremendous rebounder and will score 14-15 a game but the wildcard here is Pietrus who has all star talent written all over him. I would rather have Diagu because of his contract and potential but I can't complain. This is probably the best deal we were going to get and gives us pieces to start retooling again.

It would also make us 2-3 deep at every position.

I assume Pietrus would start at the 2?

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 03:52 PM
How much more time does Bender need to think about it?:confused: He has had the last 2 years:mad:

Mourning
01-03-2006, 03:57 PM
VA™ ;)




:-p


:kicknuts: HARD!!! We need a "seeying stars"-smilie overhere :hmm:.

:D :D :D ;)

Diesel_81
01-03-2006, 03:57 PM
It would also make us 2-3 deep at every position.

I assume Pietrus would start at the 2?

I would think Pietrus stats at the two and Granger at the three. That would be an excellent defensive combo on the wing and very athletic.

Shade
01-03-2006, 03:58 PM
I would think Pietrus stats at the two and Granger at the three. That would be an excellent defensive combo on the wing and very athletic.

Which leaves Jack...?

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 04:00 PM
Which leaves Jack...?

Hopfully next on the way out list..,:cool:

Mourning
01-03-2006, 04:00 PM
Stephen starts at SF and moves to SG once Danny comes in, moving Pietrus to the bench. This is Carlisle here, so Danny won't probably be playing more then say about 15-20 minutes and is unlikely to start many games.

Diesel_81
01-03-2006, 04:01 PM
Hopfully next on the way out list..,:cool:

Just what I was thinking. Actually I would love for him to come off the bench and become our 6th man. I think that would be an excellent role for him, of course he probably won't settle for that and if thats the case then we have to move him.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2006, 04:04 PM
Sarunas/Pietrus/Granger/O'Neal/Harrison

I would like that lineup. Only problem is that there is no second scorer. Bunch of decent scorers and one great scorer. Dunno if that would work.

Frank Slade
01-03-2006, 04:06 PM
Actually, in retrospect, Indy-Dave has been just as accurate, if not more so, than Emplay and Lionel...especially as it relates to the Pacers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Murphy & Pietrus FOR Artest & Foster swap is real.

It'll be deja vu for Mitch all over again; Mullin will have stolen yet another hot prospect away from Mitch's grasp.

If this is true, Mitch will be heretofore known as Mullin's B*tch Kupchack.
Here is the response from the post from Wade , referencing this is very similar to another poster Indy Dave who has been reliable in the past..

also the link below is post that Indy Dave posted prior to this outlining what he thought was going to happen..

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=3930

Hicks
01-03-2006, 04:08 PM
Indy Dave = diamonddave00, in case there was any confusion on that.

Frank Slade
01-03-2006, 04:13 PM
Frank, put the bold tags inside of your quote ;)

Ah shoot caught with my tags sticking out :blush:

CableKC
01-03-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm listening to www.KNBR680.com with Rick Barry and Rod Brooks and they are talking briefly about Artest and the Warriors. Nothing much though...and nothing about the rumored trade of Foster/Artest for Murphy/Pietrus though.

The Contra Costa reporter ( Marcus Thompson? ) brings up that no player on the Warriors has any concerns about playing with Artest.....everything he has heard is simply rumor......mainly talking at what Artest brings to the team. From a Player perspective....the Warriors teammates could overlook his past if they can simply win. This doesn't really tell us anything other then the fact that concerns about a player's past is a concern...but it won't mean much if they start winning.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 04:23 PM
[PAGE 365]

IndyDave: IF the Warriors offer Murphy, Pietrus and Biedrins and a pick for Artest, Foster and Harrison , pretty good chance Ron's in the Bat Area soon.

Murphy would provide scoring and rebounding that we need. Pietrus is a young swingman who can play defense . Biedrins is very very young but has good upside and Warriors pick would be better than the Heat's.

People over emphasize the Pacers need for cap relief Pollard, Miller and Bender's contracts come off this summer thats 19 mil. They are 30+ over the cap so unless they dump 20 million more they can't be a player in free agency away.

After next season Croshere's 9 million comes off.

An though people say NENE is a greater risk than Kwame Brown , NENE'S low salary means something else comes with him . Plus since Nene only signed the qualifying offer , if he is traded to the Pacers they get his Bird rights meaning they can match any offer or do a sign and trade he is a restricted free agent.

The plus side for the Lakers is every good game Brian Cook has it makes him more attractive to Bird and Walsh. George likes serve only if Croshere is tossed into the deal , so the Pacers can save paying his 9 mil salary next season while letting George's 5+ mil come off the books.

I think Walsh is still not making a move till after the West coast trip that end Jan. 9th in LA , unless the Pacers lose a couple more in a row.

Since Walsh has ownership permission to sitr Artest all season, he is under no real pressure to take crap. If Artest gets to mouthy you suspend him. The Pacers are not a challenger now so making the playoffs is the goal even struggling they atre still the 6th seed currently.

We know the NENE and filler offer is legit so who knows.

Sky: Jonez - Indy Dave has some inside connects, but he's also a homer. That Warrior trade idea is pure crack pipe. The word from Oakland is Mullin thinks Artest is too risky to part with any of his young core and is working on deadline deals for an impact big.

D Nice - We'll find out, but my gut is Odom will not be offered.

IndyDave: Crack pipe huh?
Okay reason why Murphy is tradable large contract and Ike Diogu's play of late.

Pietrus is who the Pacers want as a swingman defender. Biedrins has been offered from the beginning ask any Warrior fan they will tell you as soon as Artest became available the Warriors stopped playing Biedrins even tho he'd played well in limited minutes before that.

Foster , Artest and Harrison would go to the Warriors IF LATEST TALK IS CORRECT , Murphy , Pietrus , Biedins or a #1 and trade exemption comes to Indy. If Biedrins stays in Bay area Harrison stays in Indy for now.

Acquiring Murphy's scoring may then mean Stephen Jackson will be shopped next with Harrison

Sky: Indy Dave - Yes, crack pipe. Mullin is working on packaging Murphy, but for bigger fish than this. Pietrus would be in a Warrior offer since they can no longer afford to re-sign him. Biedrins is a possibility if they get Harrison back. But Pietrus, Biedrins AND Murphy? No.

Again I've heard from the inside that Mullin is after a big at the deadline and that he wants to use Murphy to get it. Also heard that Mullin is not willing to give up young core for Artest. Warrior fans hate Dunleavy with such a passion they'll give up anything but Diogu and the backcourt to do it, doesn't mean Mullin is.

If Indy is as focused on cost reduction as you claim, they'd want the Warrior trade X and Philly #1 for Foster in one deal, with Pietrus, Biedrins and Cheaney for Artest and Harrison in another. That I could believe. Murphy, Pietrus, Biedrins and a #1 for Artest, Foster and Harrison I cannot.

Sky: Final offers were reportedly due this morning, with a final decision made within the next few days.


Last edited by jminges on Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total

Might aswell quote the whole post from ClubLakers ;).

Hicks
01-03-2006, 04:25 PM
Anyone else fidgiting back and forth mentally between "I think this is it" and "I'm a sucker; this is fake"? I'll give it until 7, but if nothing's said by 6 I'll have unofficially given it up.

Frank Slade
01-03-2006, 04:29 PM
Anyone else fidgiting back and forth mentally between "I think this is it" and "I'm a sucker; this is fake"? I'll give it until 7, but if nothing's said by 6 I'll have unofficially given it up.

Yeah guarded optimism is the word of the hour.. no word on any other site,, including Pacers. Com or Indystar about a press conference...not that there would have to be...

CableKC
01-03-2006, 04:31 PM
I keep on hearing about "final offers due this morning" which I am guessing that it means that Walsh has set a deadline for anyone to offer any deals ( kind of like when you can hand in a book report at school....which is wierd ).

Can someone elaborate on this? I haven't heard anything official from Walsh about this...or even if its speculation.

Hicks
01-03-2006, 04:33 PM
Well, Wade Is God (or a copycat) just registered, so maybe we'll hear what he has to say 1st-hand soon.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 04:35 PM
Anyone else fidgiting back and forth mentally between "I think this is it" and "I'm a sucker; this is fake"? I'll give it until 7, but if nothing's said by 6 I'll have unofficially given it up.

Yup! I'm in the same ballpark.

Shade
01-03-2006, 04:38 PM
Yup! I'm in the same ballpark.

I'm drifting more towards "false rumor," but I have nothing better to do right now anyway. I'd say it's about 30/70 at this point.

tadscout
01-03-2006, 04:39 PM
This weekend I had a dream we traded Artest to GS and Pietrus was in the deal... and last night and this morning I had a gut feeling the trade my happen today...

Hopefully it does!:pray:

Harmonica
01-03-2006, 04:40 PM
Anyone else fidgiting back and forth mentally between "I think this is it" and "I'm a sucker; this is fake"? I'll give it until 7, but if nothing's said by 6 I'll have unofficially given it up.

I'm reminded of the Dampier rumors when in fact Donnie and Mullin never even talked turkey. Although I've always had a feeling it would be GS.

tadscout
01-03-2006, 04:58 PM
Ok... it's 5...:tap:

Mourning
01-03-2006, 05:01 PM
Check out the new topic regarding the Warriors. Anyone else hear about it? Specifics or details that may have been told.

Hicks
01-03-2006, 05:06 PM
So we're on the same page, Ric Bucher was on ESPNews a moment ago saying Golden State has the best offer on the table, and he mentioned the exact same deal we've been talking about, Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster. Apparently he also said the Clippers are out of the running, with Denver and Minnesota still having a shot. Lastly, that a deal COULD happen tomorrow, but we're in no hurry and it sounds like it could be a few days.

I'll add that we play Golden State on Thursday on TNT. Though I find it silly, teams seem reluctant to make trades right before they play each other, so expect this to wait at least until there's not enough time for the traded players to suit up.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 05:12 PM
So, realistically we could be talking about friday 6th, I guess then.

Hicks
01-03-2006, 05:15 PM
So, realistically we could be talking about friday 6th, I guess then.

That would be my guess.

Shade
01-03-2006, 05:18 PM
That would be my guess.

Just in time for the forum party. ;)

So, the Lakers are also out? Cause there's no way we take Minny's/Denver's offers over GS's.

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 05:22 PM
I've seen someone on CL has heard the same thing.So they won't be happy in Lakerland if this goes down.

tadscout
01-03-2006, 05:23 PM
I've seen someone on CL has heard the same thing.So they won't be happy in Lakerland if this goes down.

HAHA :laugh:

Shade
01-03-2006, 05:25 PM
I've seen someone on CL has heard the same thing.So they won't be happy in Lakerland if this goes down.

Weren't the Lakers in the running late for Baron too, before he ended up in GS? Wonder how Lakers fans would feel about losing two straight All-Stars to the Warriors...

tadscout
01-03-2006, 05:26 PM
Weren't the Lakers in the running late for Baron too, before he ended up in GS? Wonder how Lakers fans would feel about losing two straight All-Stars to the Warriors...

I don't know... but I'd sure love it! :D

purplengoldjonez
01-03-2006, 05:30 PM
I don't know... but I'd sure love it! :D

yeah that would be a very sore outcome for most of us Laker fans who are basically losing faith in Mitch and that powers that be. It is even more of a thorn in our side considering most of us laker fans would have happily served up LODOM'

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 05:33 PM
Weren't the Lakers in the running late for Baron too, before he ended up in GS? Wonder how Lakers fans would feel about losing two straight All-Stars to the Warriors...

I believe so.Some of their posters are not too pleased about Mullin possibly taking another all-star from them from what I have read on CL.
Some are already calling for Mitch's head if he loses Artest.:)

Mourning
01-03-2006, 05:34 PM
yeah that would be a very sore outcome for most of us Laker fans who are basically losing faith in Mitch and that powers that be. It is even more of a thorn in our side considering most of us laker fans would have happily served up LODOM'

Sorry for you guys, but as to which deal we should take ... it isn't even close IMO. I would like to point that nothing is set in stone yet, just rumours. It's just that they are coming from multiple sources including ESPN now ;).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Will Galen
01-03-2006, 05:47 PM
Anyone else fidgiting back and forth mentally between "I think this is it" and "I'm a sucker; this is fake"? I'll give it until 7, but if nothing's said by 6 I'll have unofficially given it up.

If true, the Pacers would likely wait a day or two before announcing it so they don't have to play against Ron. We play Denver Wed. and GS thursday.

Will Galen
01-03-2006, 05:52 PM
I believe so.Some of their posters are not too pleased about Mullin possibly taking another all-star from them from what I have read on CL.
Some are already calling for Mitch's head if he loses Artest.:)

Another point, even if Odom was offered Bird would probably vote for the GS deal in as much as he hates the Lakers.

diamonddave00
01-03-2006, 05:57 PM
Little note Bird is has pushed to acquire Troy Murphy before . But even tho Buecher is has reported the rumor doesn't mean anything yet. But the Warriors are a team that expressed very early interest.

Could be Harrison starting and looking good makes Donnie a little more comfortable dealing Foster?

indygeezer
01-03-2006, 06:00 PM
When does Murphy come off BYC? That's how he is listed in RealGM anyway?

Salary rating of 33.2 and BYC. Ron slary rating of 30.x

mulisha
01-03-2006, 06:02 PM
So I take it Indy isn't looking for cap relief as reported?

BryantDunkGiant
01-03-2006, 06:09 PM
I believe so.Some of their posters are not too pleased about Mullin possibly taking another all-star from them from what I have read on CL.
Some are already calling for Mitch's head if he loses Artest.:)The Lakers were in the running for Baron Davis, but never pulled the trigger because Jerry Buss wasn't happy that Baron's giant contract wasn't 2007-friendly (the year Laker management plans to free up cap space and attract a big-name FA.

As far as people calling for Mitch's head, there's a lot of Laker fans (many spoiled by the success of winning 3 straight titles and being in the Finals 4 of 5 years) who have been doing that since several months ago. :)

I feel the jury's still out on him. I would love Artest on this Laker team, but I wouldn't be totally disappointed if we came out of this without him.

CableKC
01-03-2006, 06:11 PM
When it comes to Walsh....everything that comes out of the media is a smokescreen.

BryantDunkGiant
01-03-2006, 06:13 PM
When it comes to Walsh....everything that comes out of the media is a smokescreen.I'm not calling you out here (I take your word for it), but I'm curious about that... when has he done that before?

Outlaw
01-03-2006, 06:13 PM
So I take it Indy isn't looking for cap relief as reported?

Maybe or maybe not. Walsh may have other trades down the road so who knows.:confused: :cool:

mulisha
01-03-2006, 06:15 PM
Maybe or maybe not. Walsh may have other trades down the road so who knows.:confused: :cool:

Well I'm just saying that Murphy's contract is somewhere around 60 million until 2010/11 which is why I've been skeptical of this deal ever since it was rumored yesterday.

Mourning
01-03-2006, 06:17 PM
I'm not calling you out here (I take your word for it), but I'm curious about that... when has he done that before?

Jalen Rose comes to mind.

Donnie said he wouldn't be traded and next day ... off went Jalen to Chicago :).

tadscout
01-03-2006, 06:18 PM
Well I'm just saying that Murphy's contract is somewhere around 60 million until 2010/11 which is why I've been skeptical of this deal ever since it was rumored yesterday.

I think Murphy's contract will pretty much take over Jackson's spot $ wise, b/c if we get Pietrus, I can see Jackson on his way out...

Hicks
01-03-2006, 06:38 PM
When it comes to Walsh....everything that comes out of the media is a smokescreen.

Well, to be fair, Indystar had an article speculating who we were interested in the summer before last, and one of the names they mentioned was Stephen Jackson, and this was about a week or so before we traded Al for him. The media was also all over the Ron for Peja talks, and I know those were legit.

CableKC
01-03-2006, 06:51 PM
I'm not calling you out here (I take your word for it), but I'm curious about that... when has he done that before?
Everyone here would be able to give a better answer to this........but what I have learned here on PD is that Walsh is the "Wizard of Oz" when it comes to GMs......everything is smoke an mirrors with him until Stern finalizes any deal that Walsh is involved in.

BryantDunkGiant
01-03-2006, 06:57 PM
Gotcha. Meanwhile, Mitch and the Lakers haven't been very good at ducking and dodging the media (go figure, we're in Los Angeles here) so this should be interesting to watch.

sixthman
01-03-2006, 07:08 PM
So I take it Indy isn't looking for cap relief as reported?

There is about 3 million in luxury tax relief and several million in salary reduction THIS YEAR for the Pacers in the two-man straight up trade.

BryantDunkGiant
01-03-2006, 08:22 PM
Take this as a grain of salt... from ClubLakers' Greatest Ron Artest Thread in the History of Mankind:


Lakers are gonna win the Artest sweepstakes this is just another plan for Walsh to keep busy with his real plan...

Smokescreen folks look at the real side...

Just wait for my announce tonight.

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=4100

Goes along with the Walsh smokescreen theory. Granted, this guy's a very new member but he's saying he will come with more information tonight. That's the fun of the internet. ;)

mulisha
01-03-2006, 08:36 PM
Normally I don't give any type of attention to people like that but yesterday he did say some stuff that was confirmed today by ESPN. But I still take it as a grain of salt for obvious reasons.

BryantDunkGiant
01-04-2006, 01:46 AM
From msb212, a longtime CL member and season-ticket holder. Once again, take this as a grain of salt... but he's got a better rep than KingLakers.


breaking news...

we will either get artest...or we won't.

The Lakers management want him, but won't go too far to get him. They are doing everything they can to make it happen, but will not leave themselves in a hole by making a stupid deal.

Mitch is not a dummy, no matter what the 13 year olds around here seem to think.

If there is a deal to be made, he will make it if he and Buss believe it is in the best long term interests of the franchise. But he will not sacrifice the future by making a dumb deal. Phil is very involved.


And yes, that is inside information, from a high ranking Lakers executive.

The fact is people, the ball is not in Mitch's court, no matter how much everyone wants to believe it is. Mitch and Buss are playing chess, not checkers. Or, to put it another way, we're in the middle of a poker hand. No way of knowing how it will turn out until it ends. Some may fold, some may raise, some may reraise. It is not yet clear who will win the hand.

So stop the jabbering, and have some patience. All will become clear soon enough.

blanket
01-04-2006, 01:55 PM
This is taken from post this morning on ClubLakers.com forum by user NDPacers. I don't know if he's a reliable source, but most of what he has to say sounds reasonable, and similar to what we've heard elsewhere:

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=4430


Hello all,

Thought i might provide some info for you. I know how interested most of you are, and probably distracted by all of the supposed events. Seems to be a lot of info around, however most of it seems to be more a figment of peoples imaginations. Either that, or some people who have heard a few things and try to be creative in an attempt to bring some sort of credit to themselves.

First off, there is no deal done yet. Not with GS or anyone else. While entirely possible, theres no guarantee a deal gets done in the next week or so.

Now, as far as the Lakers go. Seems to be a lot of misinformation here. Lets address the Odom issue first. As many of you may know, the Lakers approached the Pacers this past summer regarding the availability of Artest. They actually were interested in a package of Foster and Artest or even possibly a package of Croshere and Artest, though the Foster/Artest package was definitely the package of choice. Odom was discussed and the Pacers informed the Lakers they had no interest in Odom. Primary reason being his contract. The Pacers, as most know, are in a mode of watching their financial situation, and they feel Odom would not be viable for them-they feel his best position is PF. They have JO there and really feel strongly about whatever moves that are made are made with the goal in mind of playing him in the PF slot and not center.

Hence Odom has very little interest to them. When recent discussions resumed, they intimated this to the Lakers again. They told the Lakers that if the Lakers could come up with a 3rd team that would want Odom, and that team had some pieces that would be attractive to them, then that would be fine. The Pacers havent had anything on that front brought to them by the Lakers.

So these 'no Odom, no deal' things you hear are someones active imagination. As are the comments being made regarding Odom will not be traded to the Pacers for Artest. While true, its conveying a bit different meaning, but its more about spin than anything else. It appears some of the so called experts around here might be possibly being used as spin control experts in the event the Lakers dont get Ron. They can say they wouldnt trade Odom for Ron, no matter what, nevermind, that was never really an issue.

Heres the issue. Andrew Bynum. The Pacers made it very clear, early on, what they wanted from the Lakers. A package of Bynum, George and the Miami pick gets Ron. Any bigger package that might include Foster or Croshere must still include Bynum. And if Foster is in the package, then the Pacers want Kwame as well. The Pacers have Pollard and Benders contract that they would be willing to utilize to make a deal with the Lakers.

So far, the Lakers refuse to include Bynum, and thus there is no deal. Both teams seem steadfast in their stance here. I can tell you that from the Pacers side of things the following has been put before the Lakers as deals that would probably be doable.

Bynum, George, and the Miami 1st for Artest
Bynum, George, Kwame, the Miami 1st for Artest and Croshere
Bynum, George, Kwame, the Miami 1st for Artest and Foster(this would require the Pacers using a trade exception they gained in an earlier Phoenix deal-which the Lakers would then have-for Bynum's salary)

The Pacers have told them they will not trade both Foster and Croshere. Its one or the other only. They would be willing to include Pollard and Samaki in a deal for Slava, Cook, and Vujacic.

They have also added these options. If the Lakers do not reach the playoffs this season, the Lakers may keep the Miami 1st and replace it with a 2nd round pick of the Lakers choice. Also, Vujacic or Cook can be substituted for the Miami pick in any of the deals, and the Pacers would then use a trade exception which would then revert to the Lakers.

I will once again say Bynum has been the sticking point, as the Lakers have been willing to do the deal with Mihm, Slava, Cook, or Vujacic as a substitute for Bynum, but have been rebuffed to this point.

It appears the Pacers have said "No Bynum, no deal". To which the Lakers have responded, "No deal".

And there you have it. Thats the Laker story with regard to Artest.

Whether a deal gets done with any team right away, is anybody's guess at this stage. The Pacers seem to have a feel for whos really interested, and have basically given those teams what they would be willing to take.

If no team satisfies those wishes, then it appears the Pacers are going to continue to wait and see what continues to transpire as the deadline approaches in late February. They have decided its better to wait this all out, even waiting till the offseason, than make a deal theyre not comfortable with.

Good Luck. My personal opinion is that Phil would probably be the best coach to deal with Ron. So, wanting to see Ron succeed, it would be nice to see if Phil could make it work. Phil seems to think he can. So time will tell if he gets the opportunity.

Thx,
ND

Hicks
01-04-2006, 02:28 PM
Talk like that makes me think we're going to be stuck with Ron and no help replacement(s) until August.

blanket
01-04-2006, 02:39 PM
Here are a couple more follow-up posts by the poster NDPacer at ClubLakers.com:


...Franchises dont want to mortgage their futures completely, because they know there is no such thing as a 'sure thing'.

Any moves that are made always are looked at in two ways. How do they affect the 'now' and how will they affect the future-3 to 5 years down the line.

And then you have the nastiest word in the world of sports. And its not 4 letters. P-O-T-E-N-T-I-A-L. The game is dominated by star type players. Those that dont have them look for them. And thats where potential comes in.

Its really quite simple. Each year you have just a handful of teams that realistically have a shot at the championship. Everyone else are just pretenders. And most franchises realize this, and if they're not one of the handful of contenders, then they're left to market a team based on potential and/or having some sort of remote chance.

The Pacers were regarded as on of those handful. Due to circumstances, theyre now in a situation where they're probably not going to be one of those handful, because they're exploring the trade of one of their stars.

Artest is a top 15 talent. Hes one of the top 2-way players in the game. Problem is this-and its not his baggage, because any team that trades for him will have weighed that in and ultimately chosen to pursue him-but its that he is being paid average money. So its basically impossible to get equal value. So the approach is simple. Obtain a couple of young, raw talents, in the hope that one of them might actually deliver on some perceived talent. The odds of that player materializing into a top 15 player are highly unlikely, but thats the situation you find when you trade a star making less than 7 million. So any team that ultimately makes a deal for Ron will realize that they will have to give up some combination of 2 prospects-and in almost any case that will be the two best prospects a team has, whether its a player and a draft choice or two young players. If other players are thrown into the mix from the Pacers perspective, then the deal will adjust accordingly.

Thus, its not too hard to understand why, from a Pacers perspective, bynum must be included. He was a number 10 pick. Hes simply the best shot the Lakers have on their roster of obtaining a significant player. Would it really be reasonable to think that the Pacers would make a trade with a team-when theyre hoping to find a potential star-and not take that teams top prospect??? While its understandable that teams would want to hang onto those types of prospects, its really very simple. Ron is a star talent, the other is just a potential star. And fact of the matter is, most of these prospects arent likely to become a top 15 talent in the league, let alone one of the best two-way players in the league. So, believe it or not, a package of Bynum and miamis first barely satisfies the 2 prospect concept, as the miami pick looks to be very low. Realize also, as some of you have noticed, that with Bynum being so young, hes not necessarily ideal because he probably is a few years away from realizing whatever potential he has. Just as you have a window to win with Kobe, the Pacers have the same with Jermaine. So its hardly a lock to think that Bynum would impact the championship chances of the Pacers squad. As i mentioned this would be a move that probably addresses the Pacers long term future versus immediate.

If a move like this was to be done, the dynamic would appear to be simple. The Lakers would be convinced that bringing artest into the mix would make them one of the 'handful' over the next few years. And that the gamble that Bynum might turn out to be a great player would be offset by the ability to challenge for a championship in the next few years. Now does Kobes window factor into that decision? Does Phils window factor into that decision? They both surely do. And thats what the ownership and management of any franchise must weigh. If the ultimate goal is to win a title, when will they have the best chance and thus make the associated gambles with making the run. My guess is the Lakers were hoping to be in that position in a couple years. Artest's availability has probably caused them to revisit their plans. As Im sure it has caused a number of teams to analyze and possibly adjust their plans.

As always, good luck.

ND


I think some might not fully understand the Pacers position with regard to Ron. Let me just say that, the Pacers DONT have to do anything with Ron, especially right away. The Pacers realize that without Ron they're probably not going to be a contender. And any move that would be made now is not likely to change that. And Rons trade value isnt going to drop by him not playing. Ron is what he is. Most everyone knows what he brings to the table, both positive and negative.

Now, Im sure that fans from other teams would like for Rons value to be low, as that would enable them to acquire him without tremendous cost. But in this case, that might be construed as wishful thinking. Rons value hasnt changed in the fact that everyone knows what hes going to bring on the court: 3rd Team All-NBA, DPOY, Allstar. Noone really doubts that. Those that say the Pacers are forced to take a bad deal are just hoping that is the case, but i assure you that wont happen. Not relatively speaking anyway. As i noted before, the deal will be somewhat lopsided because of Ron's salary not being commensurate with his talent level, not because the Pacers have to make a trade. And the same holds true for whatever baggage Ron brings. These are much more negotiating tactics than anything else. Everyone wants a great deal. Who wouldnt. And anyone that might suggest that either is this case would just be told that if thats the way the party feels then theyre probably not really interested in Ron and what he brings to the floor, but more interested in getting a good deal.

Think about how some of you might value Kobe or Bynum, for instance. And try to keep that in mind. You simply dont trade away and allstar, DPOY talent for a bench player's contract and a late first round draft choice.

Its a business. The Pacers have a highly valuable asset. Now if they choose to explore the departure of that asset, they will look for a deal that makes sense from a business standpoint. And you wont make a deal if it doesnt bring a desired value in return.

Quite frankly the Pacers have a number of options before them. What to do with Ron is the big question. And there are a number of different answers. Not everyone of those answers involves trading him in the next week, let alone by Feb. 23rd. If they get a deal that brings them the kind of value they feel they should get, then they will do so. If not, then they will continue to explore all their options.

Thx and good luck

ND


...you wont see them pull the trigger on a deal now, if they believe a better deal can be gotten in a month. It really makes no sense to do so. And a deal that a team might not be willing to make now, could possibly be done nearer the deadline. Its amazing what happens, when management sees the opportunity to improve-whether its improving to become a contender, or improving to make the playoffs. So if the Pacers get a deal now that they feel confident will be similar to the one they get in a month, then they will go ahead. Otherwise, they will wait. Now, if they dont get a deal they feel comfortable with by the deadline, then they will reevaluate come the offseason and there are other possibilities that they then would look at.

And please dont misconstrue something. Its not that the Pacers are so enthralled with Bynum in particular. The Pacers are interested in young potential stars. The Lakers have no real draft picks to dangle. The Pacers would love a top 5 pick and a young player. Someone mentioned 'something daring'. Something daring might be making a trade that nets the pacers nothing more than a marginal starter who has a very reasonable contract that is nearing its end and a couple of draft choices with at least one assuredly in the lottery and most likely top 3. That would probably be considered daring. But due to the Lakers draft pick situation, the only real young talent is Bynum. After that its Vujacic and to a degree, Kwame-but Kwame makes alot of money, so the deal inherently gets more complicated.

Really, if you were looking for young potential stars on the Lakers, since youre trading a top 15 player, who would you look at?

Respectfully,

ND

denyfizle
01-04-2006, 02:42 PM
Id take JR Smith and PJ Brown from the hornets for Artest and Foster in a nanosecond

CableKC
01-04-2006, 03:05 PM
Good God......I can't take this anymore. I'm going to lunch.....wake me up when Artest is traded for the Wendy's Biggie meal that we offered before.

Mourning
01-04-2006, 03:10 PM
Id take JR Smith and PJ Brown from the hornets for Artest and Foster in a nanosecond

Rather you then me :D :D :D. I don't think I would even consider that seriously.

blanket
01-04-2006, 03:16 PM
Not sure where else to put this, but don't want to start a new thread for it, so...

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/pros/article_929189.php


Clippers cut Eisley, set up possible move

By ART THOMPSON III
The Orange County Register

LOS ANGELES – A major trade or free-agent signing has not been made, but the Clippers put themselves in position to remedy their injury problem Tuesday when they waived veteran point guard Howard Eisley.

The move reduced the roster to 14 players, one under the limit, giving the team the maneuverability to solidify its precarious situation at the small-forward position.

With starter Corey Maggette out at least another three weeks because of a left-foot injury, and swingman Quinton Ross questionable because of recurring back spasms and an irritated sciatic nerve, the Clippers are in need of a forward with solid NBA credentials.

Two available players who fit that description are Indiana's Ron Artest, whom the Pacers have been trying to trade for several weeks, and Latrell Sprewell, 35. Sprewell is unemployed while seeking a contract far exceeding the veteran's minimum of $1.14 million that several teams have offered.

owl
01-04-2006, 03:28 PM
"Everyone here would be able to give a better answer to this........but what I have learned here on PD is that Walsh is the "Wizard of Oz" when it comes to GMs......everything is smoke an mirrors with him until Stern finalizes any deal that Walsh is involved in."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++


I think a good example of Walsh and his duplicity ocurred back in the day
when he was in his early years. So the story goes Walsh had Mark Jackson in
for a work out and Walsh told Mark if he was there they were going to pick
him. Weeeellll up come the Pacers at number 11 and they pick a skinny shooting guard from UCLA. That is right, Reggie Miller. The rest is history there. Apparently Walsh was very worried that another team would pick him before 11 so I believe Walsh telling Mark that was to spread mis-information to other teams about who he really wanted. Many teams probably also thought or at least local fans thought he should take Steve Alford.


Walsh got his man


owl

RWB
01-04-2006, 03:44 PM
"Everyone here would be able to give a better answer to this........but what I have learned here on PD is that Walsh is the "Wizard of Oz" when it comes to GMs......everything is smoke an mirrors

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

to spread mis-information


owl

The other quote we see often is Walsh is good with mis-direction. Pretty much sums up Donnie's way of doing things. One additional trait is Donnie's willingness to pick for need rather than the best athlete available and will trade down often. So once again I can see where mutiple draft picks and cap relief is not out of the question.

Hicks
01-04-2006, 03:47 PM
The other quote we see often is Walsh is good with mis-direction. Pretty much sums up Donnie's way of doing things. One additional trait is Donnie's willingness to pick for need rather than the best athlete available and will trade down often. So once again I can see where mutiple draft picks and cap relief is not out of the question.

That could explain Mullin on a radio show admitting the Pietrus/Murphy stuff. Either it's true, Mullin has his own mis-direction going, or he's doing it for Walsh as a friend.

*Edit* I disagree about Walsh drafting for need. In fact he's quite often said he drafts the best player regardless of position. You can always trade the better player later for a need as good as that player.

blanket
01-04-2006, 03:56 PM
Here's one more post from NDPacer at ClubLakers.com forum. He raises the relevant point that if an Artest+Foster for Pietrus+Murphy (+draft pick or another young prospect?) deal happens, the Pacers may have in mind to turn around and trade Murphy to another team for additional players/picks:

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=4540


I was trying to say, with all these supposed negatives with regarding Murphy fitting the Pacers, why would the Pacers do that deal?? And yes, the deal would probably include a draft pick or another young player.

But anyway, Ill stop playing coy, as I need to leave. If the Pacers were to trade Artest and Foster for Pietrus, Murphy and either another young player or draft pick, why would they do so? If Murphy would appear to be a questionable fit? First of all, nothing is done, so at this point its still speculation, but would the possibility exist that Indiana isnt the final destination for Murphy?

And if not, what would a trade of Murphy result in? He makes a bit more than Ron, and considering the Pacers have multiple trade tools, not to mention a roster that probably isnt in its final state, it doesnt seem such a stretch to see what might be happening.

Now to bring it all together:

Pietrus, Philly 1st and whatever Murphy would bring in a trade.

Now it would appear that Murphy would bring a fair amount in trade to anyone that might need a solid PF locked in for reasonable money. Would Phoenix be interested? Atlanta? Chicago? Sacramento? New Jersey? If so, what would those teams be willing to give up?

Whatever it is, it would only be added to Pietrus and either a 1st rounder or a player like Taft. So in the end, does it begin to make a bit of sense?

And if so, then you begin to realize the quandry the Lakers management must be in with regard to the deal. Even if they deal Odom how do they get that kind of net out of the deal to be able to give to the Pacers.

Its tough. Your talking possibly 2 draft picks and anywhere between 2 and 4 young players for Ron and Jeff.

Thanks for all your great comments and interaction. Look forward to discussing things further, but for now Ive got to run.

Continued Good Luck,

ND

able
01-04-2006, 04:06 PM
With Mullin admitting the offer on radio we can rest assured that there is little likelyhood that this is the final trade.
We know the way DW works, this (a deal known to everyone beforehand) is not his signature, in fact it can be a small part of the deal, or a better offer is on the table and is kept under far better wraps then this one.

blanket
01-04-2006, 04:28 PM
With Mullin admitting the offer on radio we can rest assured that there is little likelyhood that this is the final trade.
We know the way DW works, this (a deal known to everyone beforehand) is not his signature, in fact it can be a small part of the deal, or a better offer is on the table and is kept under far better wraps then this one.

I agree with your logic.

But can anyone substantiate the poster's report of hearing Mullin say this on NYC radio?

tadscout
01-04-2006, 04:37 PM
I agree with your logic.

But can anyone substantiate the poster's report of hearing Mullin say this on NYC radio?

I know, only one person supposedly heard this...<o:p></o:p>

RWB
01-04-2006, 04:49 PM
Someone posted the possibility of Mullin playing along as a favor to Donnie. After reading this that just might be true.

http://fsnbayarea.com/wn11022005.jsp

Mullin has acknowledged that he learned quite a bit from Pacers CEO and president Donnie Walsh while he played three years for Indiana late in his playing career. Walsh, one of the true class acts in the NBA, believes in locking up young players to long-term contracts, then allowing that talent to improve and chemistry to develop over the course of those deals.

CableKC
01-04-2006, 05:31 PM
All this talk about Bynum being the "sticking point" brings up a valid question on my part.....can anyone give me any info on the kid other then the fact that he is a 19+ year old 7 footer with the body of a NBA ready player?

Any word on his skills, how he is developing? I haven't seen him play...or even know if he has played at all in the NBA. Anything would be helpful....

CableKC
01-04-2006, 05:34 PM
My concern is that this Mulln/Walsh ploy is a way for the Pacers to drag this on longer with the Lakers to try to get Bynum+filler in exchange for Artest.

If any deal that came along before would have made any sense.....then it would have happened. If we don't get an announcement about the Pacers/Warriors deal by Friday....then I am more inclined to believe that Walsh is trying to bleed the Lakers dry in any Artest deal.

indygeezer
01-04-2006, 06:13 PM
Who the heck is this ND Pacer guy??? Why doesn't he post around here some? Not being mean spirited, quite the contrary, he writes very clearly and with a great deal of apparent understanding. If nothing else he has a managers understanding of forward thinking and negotiation.
After reading his tomes I'm more convinced than ever that DW/LB are playing the waiting game and we shall hear nothing until the deadline and they are fine with that.



Meanwhile I feel like the windsock left dangling on the flagpole.

owl
01-04-2006, 06:24 PM
Geezer, you are right about the ndpacer fellow. Extremely well thought out
posts with LOGIC :0. Could this fellow be a Walsh plant? More mis-direction and mis-information? Something to think about. I gotta run, there are
helicoptors over my house.

ps I have always felt the Pacers were shooting for a high draft pick(Bynum?)
and a cast off for cap relief.

owl

Eric_Pincus
01-04-2006, 06:36 PM
Bynum has a knack for blocking shots and grabbing boards - has good size but needs a year in the gym to build up his strength. Remember he just turned 18!

He has a lot of the right ideas offensively but hasn't been able to put it together on the floor yet.

He does make an impact already defensively - the Lakers are much harder to score on in the paint - but that's more as a help defender - he hasn't been proven against guys like Shaq or Duncan, etc (no opportunity yet).

indygeezer
01-04-2006, 06:49 PM
Geezer, you are right about the ndpacer fellow. Extremely well thought out
posts with LOGIC :0. Could this fellow be a Walsh plant? More mis-direction and mis-information? Something to think about. I gotta run, there are
helicoptors over my house.

ps I have always felt the Pacers were shooting for a high draft pick(Bynum?)
and a cast off for cap relief.

owl

I had had the very same thought without the helicopters. Mine are snipers...we get em alot up here on Ruby Ridge.

indygeezer
01-04-2006, 06:50 PM
Bynum has a knack for blocking shots and grabbing boards - has good size but needs a year in the gym to build up his strength. Remember he just turned 18!

He has a lot of the right ideas offensively but hasn't been able to put it together on the floor yet.

He does make an impact already defensively - the Lakers are much harder to score on in the paint - but that's more as a help defender - he hasn't been proven against guys like Shaq or Duncan, etc (no opportunity yet).


hmmm sounds like the Anti-Bender. How're his knees?

Thanks for the report there Eric.

CableKC
01-04-2006, 08:02 PM
I read through all the posts from ND....we're assuming that this is a Pacer fan....if he's posting on ClubLakers....I would guess that he's a Laker fan...who knows.

Either way...you're right....this guy/gal makes total sense. He/She paints a bigger picture that suggests that what Walsh is truly looking for is a complete rebuild from the top down around JONeal, Sarunas and Granger ( I suppose ) starting with Artest deal and possibly ending up in major trades afterwards.

extreme
01-05-2006, 03:33 AM
Bynum has a knack for blocking shots and grabbing boards - has good size but needs a year in the gym to build up his strength. Remember he just turned 18!

He has a lot of the right ideas offensively but hasn't been able to put it together on the floor yet.

He does make an impact already defensively - the Lakers are much harder to score on in the paint - but that's more as a help defender - he hasn't been proven against guys like Shaq or Duncan, etc (no opportunity yet).
Phil must give him some minutes :mad: :mad: :mad:

BryantDunkGiant
01-05-2006, 05:24 AM
Here's my take on Bynum:

http://www.clublakers.com/wordpress/index.php?cat=13

I watched him at every Summer Pro League game in Long Beach, CA. If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll find more articles under "Previous Entries."

SINCE then, he's shown great development in the limited minutes he's gotten. He's not getting lost as he would do sometimes before, he's rebounding much better, and his post game has started to progess.

He's added a jump-hook into his arsenal ... he doesn't score with consistency, but you can see the talent is there. He's got a nice soft touch and for the most part, his form is solid for his age ... all it takes is just practice and experience.

In addition, he's been able to make his defensive presence felt on the floor. Early in the year, he was leading rookies in Blocks per 48 mins. He's not exactly an enforcer yet and still makes rookie mistakes -- expected with an 18 year old.

He can't officially be considered a solid role player yet, but his potential is limitless; he's shown great improvement since working with Kareem.

So you do roll the dice with him by having him on your team.

Eric knows what he's talking about too, he's been at Laker practice and is a regular at the SPL as well. I second his assessment.

able
01-05-2006, 10:07 AM
The more silence around a possible trade with the Lakers, the more likely it is to occur.

You have the pieces, you want him, yet no one speculates anymore or has whispers of it, doesn't that make you think ?

Walsh' signature is like that, silence means talks, rumours mean there's nothing there

Hicks
01-07-2006, 01:51 PM
Update from our 'friend' Wade Is God (the poster I brought up on the very first post in this thread): :unimpress



I'd like to give a shout out to all my peeps over at PacersDigest. Love the 8 page thread over there regarding what I heard on the radio. Rumors From ClubLakers.com man10

This Naptown Seth guy got the entire Pietrus and Murphy for Artest and Foster rumor started, and idiot journalists picked up on it and tried to pass it off as coming from legit sources *cough*RicBucher*cough*
Naptown Seth strikes again.

Just goes to show you how little truth there is out there, and how even the most "professional" of journalists have nex to no idea wtf they're talking about. mhihi




I can confirm that everything I've said was 100% made up for my own enjoyment.

I'm pretty sure the majority of the Golden State rumors came from my post like 5 or or days ago with a list of made-up offers the Pacers had recieved, One of the offers I said was Pietrus/Murphy for Artest/Foster.

It was made up. 95% of the Warriors talk is made up.

Now other people making [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] up please come forward, and maybe everything can be sorted out.

Anyone still think at least someone in the media DOESN'T read Pacers Digest?

(Sidenote to Jose: Guess we can drop it; it's already proven)

:sigh:

SoupIsGood
01-07-2006, 02:00 PM
I was just wondering if this kind of crap was the source of all the rumours we've been hearing lately. Forget speculation from now on, no one has a clue whats happenin.

tadscout
01-07-2006, 02:09 PM
I was just wondering if this kind of crap was the source of all the rumours we've been hearing lately. Forget speculation from now on, no one has a clue whats happenin.

Only DW + LB knows... sit back and relax, this can be awhile :lurk:

tadscout
01-07-2006, 02:25 PM
Ok, so who in the media follows PD?

Is it Stephen A Smith?

Mark Boyle!!! :D :happydanc

blanket
01-07-2006, 03:41 PM
I still have confidence in the veracity of NDPacers' posts at ClubLakers. Not sure why he as a Pacers fan is posting at a Lakers forum, but his comments seem well thought out - if not based on insider connections - and he doesn't push trade rumors. :whoknows:

indygeezer
01-07-2006, 07:53 PM
I still have confidence in the veracity of NDPacers' posts at ClubLakers. Not sure why he as a Pacers fan is posting at a Lakers forum, but his comments seem well thought out - if not based on insider connections - and he doesn't push trade rumors. :whoknows:

i can agree with that